Rock In Rio 2022 Stream???

[nikatapi]

The funny thing about that is that none of us were able to hear the lower part being sung on any of the earlier recordings. It looked like lip-synching and we were pissed, to say the least. 

Truth be told, at the first shows (watched almost all the videos available), you couldn't hear the lower part at all.
After the whole debate started, and James addressed the lip-synch allegations, you can hear him singing the lower octave part on all the videos 

[Mladen]

Maybe they realized they need to turn up the lower vocals in the mix so that we can hear them. Had they been louder in the mix from the start, James would have saved himself some scrutiny.

[MoraWintersoul]

During that part at my show, I cracked a smile at James' very dignified delivery of the lower octave and he caught my eye and smiled and nodded. Very funny, my man, but I still think you weren't really singing during the first few shows

[crystalstars17]

I'd rather see the band with James on his worst night than them without him/with someone else. I have no problem with old singers sounding terribly as they age. That's life. Meat Loaf sounded like dogshit in the last 10 years of his career, and I wouldn't hesitate for even a second to a buy a ticket to any tour that was announced. Bon Jovi, Billy Joel, and many living legends' voices are a shadow of what they once were. I still get excited to see them.

I get maybe that not everyone is able to do what they were once able to do, but Bon Jovi is not even trying. He's just showing up to collect your money.

Yes, let's not compare him to lesser singers who were never in his league and never even had a fraction of his talent to begin with?

And... "old singers"?! Wow. Is that the new low here, just resorting to calling him old?! In what universe is that even true (he's not even 60 yet, what are you gonna call him when he's an actual senior citizen?) or even not just a mean thing to say?!

And honestly, are we still beating the same old dead "lipsyncing" horse after six months because we can't come up with any other more original way to just bash him?! It's obvious the creativity has run out if it's come to just calling him "old".

I've spent precious time here explaining how the voice works and why it's not his age or any other perceived (real or imagined) flaw any why all these criticisms are unfounded, but my efforts are obviously falling on deaf ears. Or, ears who just refuse to read fact and take it to heart. The trend is always gonna be to just mindlessly tear James down. I don't get it, but whatever. If the majority were just tearing down your favorite band member (whom you understand because you play the same instrument) I'm sure you'd be just as upset as I am.

[gzarruk]

And honestly, are we still beating the same old dead "lipsyncing" horse after six months because we can't come up with any other more original way to just bash him?! It's obvious the creativity has run out if it's come to just calling him "old".

I've spent precious time here explaining how the voice works and why it's not his age or any other perceived (real or imagined) flaw any why all these criticisms are unfounded, but my efforts are obviously falling on deaf ears. Or, ears who just refuse to read fact and take it to heart. The trend is always gonna be to just mindlessly tear James down. I don't get it, but whatever. If the majority were just tearing down your favorite band member (whom you understand because you play the same instrument) I'm sure you'd be just as upset as I am.

Well, not really. I don't think anyone here (or most people here, at least) is actually "mindlessly tearing James down". No one is expecting him to nail every single word/note from a 30+ year career perfectly, but I think there should be room for valid criticism based on real evidence, and there is. And that doesn't mean they're disrespecting James (depending on their word choice, of course).

As others said, on the footage from the first few shows or even the whole first leg of the current tour, it was pretty much impossible to hear that lower octave in that section for BITS. But that, as you say, is past history now. The current discussion is about the heavy use of backing vocal tracks and James's current vocal performance. And, again, there's tangible evidence to look at for discussing these concerns (i.e. Rock in Rio). I don't think pointing out some of his live struggles, which are very real, should be banned from discussion just because those offend certain people. If one of the members and/or some live production choices like relying heavily on backing tracks take away from the band's performance/image, those should at least be discussed freely... in a discussion forum. And this is coming from someone who supports 100% their use of the click track for live shows and also fully supports Mike M as a band member (who is the other member, besides James, who gets the most, if not more, criticism).

[Stadler]

I don't think I'd ever heard the piped in backing vocals this loud. I think I was in denial about JP miming the backing vocals live (always figured he was just that good), but those backing vocals are... intriguing. I noticed in the Iron Maiden broadcast how the mix really emphasized many elements that are usually buried, but this went beyond that.

What's curious is that in one of the Bridges in the Sky choruses JLB chose to sing the low part of the harmony while the tape took care of the high part (https://youtu.be/WFW_oi-xcSc?t=2166). That didn't sound half bad to me, but isn't something I've ever perceived them doing before live.

WOW, I get the debate here, I hear the parts (It's evident at the 39:00 or so mark and for the next 20 seconds or so) and I'm not taking sides*, but as a general proposition, the band as a whole sounds awesome.


(* For the record, I could give a rat's ass about augmentation.)

[MoraWintersoul]

I've spent precious time here explaining how the voice works and why it's not his age or any other perceived (real or imagined) flaw any why all these criticisms are unfounded, but my efforts are obviously falling on deaf ears. Or, ears who just refuse to read fact and take it to heart. The trend is always gonna be to just mindlessly tear James down.

No one's denying what you said about bad singing habits he'd accumulated, and I personally haven't went through many TA boots to compare what he's doing now to what he's doing back then, but even if he has corrected some things technically in your professional opinion, he still doesn't sound good to a forum of JLB enjoyers and that's just how it is.

James in 2012-2014 also had his acquired taste timbre, quirks and weird habits that make him unique, and most of us were busy defending him from mindless bashers back then. We recognized 2004-2006 as an upswing in his vocal form from the late 90's and 2011-2014 as an upswing from 2007-2010. You're bringing arguments that he's on an upswing now, but the majority verdict still swings in the other direction, so maybe you have to strengthen your argument with examples, or recognize you might also be biased because you want to enjoy this era of Dream Theater, or whatever.

If the majority were just tearing down your favorite band member (whom you understand because you play the same instrument) I'm sure you'd be just as upset as I am.

I also connect to singers more than instrumentalists. I'm not saying this to meddle into mod business or look down on you or whatever, just as advice because I like your perspective and want to have you around - there's civil discussion rules, but we can't really mandate continued liking of everything Dream Theater. You just have to read through opinions that disagree with you, provided they are stated civilly, and they are. Kevin Moore is the only member of Dream Theater I like more than James, and I had to scroll through an esteemed member of this board (civilly) dissecting "Space-Dye Vest" and arguing about how it shows a kind of a weakness in Kevin's character as a human being it happens!

[crystalstars17]

Kevin Moore is the only member of Dream Theater I like more than James, and I had to scroll through an esteemed member of this board (civilly) dissecting "Space-Dye Vest" and arguing about how it shows a kind of a weakness in Kevin's character as a human being it happens!

I feel for you! (And I happen to love that song, btw!).

I appreciate your perspective as well. I'm just always perplexed by the level of vitriol I see from the supposed "esteemed members" you speak of who are probably some of the biggest DT megafans in the world (And to the poster who mentioned MM getting it too, yes, I have seen that). It just leaves me bewildered, and a bit sad.

I'm watching the Rio show again on YouTube as we speak. It is in every way triumphant.

[Podaar]

Kevin Moore is the only member of Dream Theater I like more than James, and I had to scroll through an esteemed member of this board (civilly) dissecting "Space-Dye Vest" and arguing about how it shows a kind of a weakness in Kevin's character as a human being it happens!

 

Sorry...I didn't actually say he was a weak human being, did I? 

[wolfking]

Kevin Moore is the only member of Dream Theater I like more than James, and I had to scroll through an esteemed member of this board (civilly) dissecting "Space-Dye Vest" and arguing about how it shows a kind of a weakness in Kevin's character as a human being it happens!

I feel for you! (And I happen to love that song, btw!).

I appreciate your perspective as well. I'm just always perplexed by the level of vitriol I see from the supposed "esteemed members" you speak of who are probably some of the biggest DT megafans in the world (And to the poster who mentioned MM getting it too, yes, I have seen that). It just leaves me bewildered, and a bit sad.

I'm watching the Rio show again on YouTube as we speak. It is in every way triumphant.

Vocals too?

I've defended James forever.  I've never ever had a problem with his live vocals.  Being a guitarist, JP was the sticking point, but my second favourite member has always been James.  Love his stage presence, his sound, his look, he's just a badass dude.  But currently, his vocals live are just awful.  It legit makes me sad.  Even in his times of struggle he was still able to command what he needed to do, if that makes sense, he still had power a certain attitude to make it work, even if he couldn't hit the high notes at times.  This Rio performance is painful to the ears.  Plus he's trying to have the energy to still make it work but it must be so difficult for him.  For a band of this caliber and as much as I love the guy though, this performance isn't up to scratch.

He's in the band until the end for me, but as I said before, detuning more would be better than what is happening now.  Plus I'm sure they can streamline the set to include more songs with less range in the vocals.  I'd much rather have a show with a comfortable and pleasant sounding James with deep cuts and less classics than a set of classics listening to James fail over and over again.

[bosk1]

This Rio performance is painful to the ears. 

Well, I'll just have to double down on my "I don't get that at all" take.  Not that I haven't heard shows where he has really struggled.  I can't disagree with you that those surely exist.  But I don't hear that in this Rio performance.  I just don't. 

[TAC]

It wasn't perfect, but I actually didn't have a major problem with the Rio performance.

[wolfking]

This Rio performance is painful to the ears. 

Well, I'll just have to double down on my "I don't get that at all" take.  Not that I haven't heard shows where he has really struggled.  I can't disagree with you that those surely exist.  But I don't hear that in this Rio performance.  I just don't.

Fair enough mate, but I guess I'm not the only one who has said it at least.  To each their own.  I'm genuinely glad you can enjoy it.

[wolfking]

It wasn't perfect, but I actually didn't have a major problem with the Rio performance.

This is the first real show I've checked from this tour those besides the early videos with the lip syncing.  Maybe it's just taken me aback a little, I'm not sure.

[TAC]

I don't think the soundboard vocals are kind to James, generally. At a show, he comes off as fine most of the time. Other than those first few shows, I think James has been fine on this tour.

[Podaar]

Not that Cade needs support, but I had to click away from Pull Me Under because it made me so sad to hear James struggle.

[SeRoX]

I don't think the soundboard vocals are kind to James, generally. At a show, he comes off as fine most of the time. Other than those first few shows, I think James has been fine on this tour.

Just watched Buenos Aires concert on youtube and boom... James actually sounded pretty amazing. Not decent or Ok, it's actually amazing. Considering Rio was a couple days ago I think James could be sick or tired or something else. If I compare two concert vocal wise  fairly it's like day and night.

[TAC]

I don't think the soundboard vocals are kind to James, generally. At a show, he comes off as fine most of the time. Other than those first few shows, I think James has been fine on this tour.

Just watched Buenos Aires concert on youtube and boom... James actually sounded pretty amazing. Not decent or Ok, it's actually amazing. Considering Rio was a couple days ago I think James could be sick or tired or something else. If I compare two concert vocal wise  fairly it's like day and night.

Oh cool! I'm ging to watch that tonight!

[KevShmev]

To clear it up, I don't think JLB was ever lip synching, even early on in the tour; I just think it was clear that he was letting the backing tracks do the heavy lifting in certain spots.

And the idea that anyone here is mindlessly bashing JLB is too absurd of an assertion to take seriously.

[crystalstars17]

Vocals too?

Yes! I think he must be working with a vocal coach because, to my ears at least, he has overall pulled back on a lot of the problematic improvising and has reconnected with his breath support. Does this mean he is perfectly perfect at all times? No, in fact the one glaring mistake I could hear on PMU was using his rough effect in his upper register. That's the same exact mistake that got him into a vocal injury to begin with back in 1994. I wish he wouldn't do it, for the health of his light-lyric tenor voice - lighter voices are not meant to push like that. But it's stylistic habits that may lead him into a crash-and-burn scenario. It's not simply blaming his age or whatever. Not saying you did this, but others tend to just write him off as being all done - there's another recent thread in fact where a discussion was taking place about how and why he should be replaced - and I could not with any dignity reply to that part of the discussion, so I ignored it.

I've defended James forever.  I've never ever had a problem with his live vocals.  Being a guitarist, JP was the sticking point, but my second favourite member has always been James.  Love his stage presence, his sound, his look, he's just a badass dude.

I'm glad I'm not the only one with a strong second favorite. Mine is Jordan Rudess. I don't play keyboards but I'm a huge fan of excellent keyboards and I'm actually a DT fan because I heard the Octavarium intro on Score and was immediately blown away to another dimension. To this day that's the holy grail moment in all of their music and I hope to see it played live one day because I will be like the crying lady when I do.

But James' voice got to me soon after. Literally it's the most beautifully nuanced, gorgeous tone of any tenor voice I have ever heard. That coming from one who has worked with opera singers. I know what he is capable of. And that's why I appreciate discussion of what may be going on (which I believe is all about the approach) rather than people just saying, well he's old, over and over again.

It legit makes me sad. 

Some moments in the last dvd made me sad. Live clips of The Astonishing make me sad. I do know what you're saying. But, it's habits. He can fix this. He's not just, done.

This Rio performance is painful to the ears.  Plus he's trying to have the energy to still make it work but it must be so difficult for him.  For a band of this caliber and as much as I love the guy though, this performance isn't up to scratch.

I respectfully disagree that it's "painful to the ears", aside from a few random moments (see my above comment about PMU). I think post-Astonishing, 98% isn't bad.

He's in the band until the end for me

For me as well (obviously). 😎

[bosk1]

No, in fact the one glaring mistake I could hear on PMU was using his rough effect in his upper register. That's the same exact mistake that got him into a vocal injury to begin with back in 1994.

  No it isn't.  The injury was caused by food poisoning that caused violent vomiting, which in turn caused ruptures.  This is pretty well documented.

Anyway, that aside, I'll just go back to agreeing with you that it is an thoroughly enjoyable performance.  And I can't really speak to PMU.  At that point in watching the show, I was distracted by other things going on here and wasn't really paying attention.  I'll have to go back and check it out again.

[crystalstars17]

And the idea that anyone here is mindlessly bashing JLB is too absurd of an assertion to take seriously.

Apologies. I should've waited even longer to reply than I did because obviously my emotions hadn't cooled yet. It was a breaking point. Nothing personal against anyone. I just see a lot of unfounded comments with absurd assertions of their own that are not based in fact.

[KevShmev]

And the idea that anyone here is mindlessly bashing JLB is too absurd of an assertion to take seriously.

Apologies. I should've waited even longer to reply than I did because obviously my emotions hadn't cooled yet. It was a breaking point. Nothing personal against anyone. I just see a lot of unfounded comments with absurd assertions of their own that are not based in fact.

All good.  I think it is a good thing to remember that this isn't Twitter or FB, which are troll fests with negative nancies, or even the old dt.net .  Most of us love to the praise the band, and when we do critique, it is not because we dislike the band or anything like that.  Most of us just react to what our ears hear, and how we hear it.  Trust me, it's a bummer for me, a fan of nearly 30 years and one who has long said that JLB's voice was one of the things that got me into them right away, to hear James sing the way he currently is, but it is what it is.  Three decades of singing the way he does has obviously taken its toll on his voice. 

[crystalstars17]

  No it isn't.  The injury was caused by food poisoning that caused violent vomiting, which in turn caused ruptures.  This is pretty well documented.

I'm aware of the ruptures, etc but it's my opinion (I may be 1000% wrong!) that lots of pushing set him up for vocal hemmorages to begin with, and the unfortunate incident of getting sick was just a catalyst for making it happen sooner/all at once. I'm sure this all affects him to this day, sadly. But I think his vocal technique became a lot better after his recovery, probably by necessity.

Anyway, that aside, I'll just go back to agreeing with you that it is an thoroughly enjoyable performance. 

It is! 💯

[wolfking]

Not that Cade needs support, but I had to click away from Pull Me Under because it made me so sad to hear James struggle.

I haven't even gotten that far yet......

[TAC]

I don't think the soundboard vocals are kind to James, generally. At a show, he comes off as fine most of the time. Other than those first few shows, I think James has been fine on this tour.

Just watched Buenos Aires concert on youtube and boom... James actually sounded pretty amazing. Not decent or Ok, it's actually amazing. Considering Rio was a couple days ago I think James could be sick or tired or something else. If I compare two concert vocal wise  fairly it's like day and night.

Do you have a link for this Serox? I haven't been able to find what I think you saw.

[nobloodyname]

Just watched the first 2 songs.  Jeez, this is rough.  I feel for James.

James'  performance gets better after the first song,  but yeah The Alien was rough.  These things happen. 🤪

6:00 and ES aren't much better.  That last section of ES is just painful.  I love this band so much but it's getting bad.  Regardless of how songs sound, they need to tune down more or try and streamline the song selections even more.

Yup. I watched the whole show and... after around 25 shows, I probably won't go again. That just isn't a level of live performance I'm willing to support. It's so sad And I'm really sad about it  :'(

[wolfking]

Just watched the first 2 songs.  Jeez, this is rough.  I feel for James.

James'  performance gets better after the first song,  but yeah The Alien was rough.  These things happen. 🤪

6:00 and ES aren't much better.  That last section of ES is just painful.  I love this band so much but it's getting bad.  Regardless of how songs sound, they need to tune down more or try and streamline the song selections even more.

Yup. I watched the whole show and... after around 25 shows, I probably won't go again. That just isn't a level of live performance I'm willing to support. It's so sad And I'm really sad about it  :'(

Yes, it sure is a shame.  I've only seen them once but I probably wouldn't go currently.

[Ben_Jamin]

To clear it up, I don't think JLB was ever lip synching, even early on in the tour; I just think it was clear that he was letting the backing tracks do the heavy lifting in certain spots.

I don't feel he was lip synching at all either, and I was at the very first show.

Personally, I do not like that he didn't even bother singing the end of The Count of Tuscany. I was awaiting that moment where he would go and sing the ending, I thought he was letting us sing at first, and then he never sang as the backing track sang the entire part. I was pretty upset and it was a bit anti-climatic to get a backing track rather than JLB giving his all for that epic ending.

But also, I was rocking out, singing along to every word, and loved this setlist. I enjoyed the performance because for one, I love the songs. And two, I like the band and the songs enough that my reason for going is to see and hear these songs live. It DOES NOT matter to me if the band is utilizing clicks and backing tracks. I could hear JLB's live voice and the backing tracks. Even though the backing vocals took over and it was hard to tell whether the vocals were JLB or the backing track at certain spots. I will always try and continue to see the band on every tour.

[Architeuthis]

I don't think the soundboard vocals are kind to James, generally. At a show, he comes off as fine most of the time. Other than those first few shows, I think James has been fine on this tour.

You nailed it!  I prefer audience recordings over soundboard anytime. Chaos in Motion dvd is mostly soundboard recordings and they did a major disservice to James sound, especially during Surrounded. It makes him sound dry and tinny.  He sounds fine on the audience recordings. 
I watched several audience recordings of RIR 2022, and James' tone sounded a lot better.  Soundboard recordings isolate the vocals making it sound like they're separate from the rest of the band, and something gets lost.

All that being said, I'm just always happy to see DT whether somebody in the band is having an off night or not. Even with Rush, Geddy had his struggles and changed the way he sang some of the songs. But who cares,.it's  Rush!!! They've earned their right to make mistakes or have a rough gig every now and then. Same goes for DT, They've paid their dues and have been through the gauntlet, and they're still playing at a very high level! 💪

[majo]

ouch... this was just... painful to watch. i feel for James but i simply can't enjoy this anymore...

[SeRoX]

I don't think the soundboard vocals are kind to James, generally. At a show, he comes off as fine most of the time. Other than those first few shows, I think James has been fine on this tour.

Just watched Buenos Aires concert on youtube and boom... James actually sounded pretty amazing. Not decent or Ok, it's actually amazing. Considering Rio was a couple days ago I think James could be sick or tired or something else. If I compare two concert vocal wise  fairly it's like day and night.

Do you have a link for this Serox? I haven't been able to find what I think you saw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxEPi6bqVyE

[wolfking]

ouch... this was just... painful to watch. i feel for James but i simply can't enjoy this anymore...

While I'm not happy with the situation, I'm glad others share the same opinions.  I thought I was going a bit mad.

[nikatapi]

Thanks for sharing the Buenos Aires show. Indeed that's a pretty solid performance by James. Probably the best one i've seen from this tour.

[wolfking]

I don't think the soundboard vocals are kind to James, generally. At a show, he comes off as fine most of the time. Other than those first few shows, I think James has been fine on this tour.

Just watched Buenos Aires concert on youtube and boom... James actually sounded pretty amazing. Not decent or Ok, it's actually amazing. Considering Rio was a couple days ago I think James could be sick or tired or something else. If I compare two concert vocal wise  fairly it's like day and night.

Do you have a link for this Serox? I haven't been able to find what I think you saw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxEPi6bqVyE

WTF is this crossing to in moments of this video?  Maybe I'm just tripping hard.

James sounds a little better here.  Still not great but a tad better.