Author Topic: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)  (Read 14944 times)

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Offline MrBoom_shack-a-lack

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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2022, 03:48:00 PM »
I enjoyed the opening but it felt a bit bittersweet being back in Westeros again.

I don't think the internet reaction fully captures GoT popularity.

I don't know a single person IRL who enjoyed the GOT ending.  It seems, from my POV, that the internet response was very similar to what I see when I talk to friends about it in person.


My largest issue with it as I look back on it is the fact that Jon didn't kill the night King and wasn't proclaimed 'king' in the end was a massive deviation from what was being set up the entire time. His resurrection was voided as pointless and his lineage wasn't important either in the end and both were massive storylines and points being made.....all for nothing.
That's the one thing that kinda hurts thinking back on GOT. I still get chills thinking back on Battle of Bastards when Jon faced a charging cavalry, for me that's when Jon path to the throne was set.




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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2022, 07:12:13 PM »
I don't think the internet reaction fully captures GoT popularity.

I don't know a single person IRL who enjoyed the GOT ending.  It seems, from my POV, that the internet response was very similar to what I see when I talk to friends about it in person.

At the time....after reading all about the actors/actresses that were pretty much 'over' their roles and ready to move basically forcing a quicker resolution to the story.....I was 'fine' with how the show ended. The first handful of seasons were incredible....last couple were just 'alright' and it's no coincidence the show went downhill once the source material dried up.

My largest issue with it as I look back on it is the fact that Jon didn't kill the night King and wasn't proclaimed 'king' in the end was a massive deviation from what was being set up the entire time. His resurrection was voided as pointless and his lineage wasn't important either in the end and both were massive storylines and points being made.....all for nothing. Horrible writing.... Having Arya be the one who killed the night king was 100% placating to the #meetoo vibe at the time and didn't fit the show at all.

Arya was the only one who constantly trained for one thing, to kill in as many ways as possible. She was hands down the most dangerous person on that show, character development that was well in place for multiple seasons. She was destined to kill at least one major baddie, if not more. If I remember correctly, she got the Night King and also served Frey a pie made of his kin before slicing his fucking throat, and again, this was the arc she was on from the beginning. Placating the me too crowd? C'mon man....

Offline Chino

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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2022, 07:17:03 PM »
Didn't the show open with Arya training, or shooting an arrow or something?

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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2022, 07:28:22 PM »
Didn't the show open with Arya training, or shooting an arrow or something?

Yup, from the first moment, her arc was in motion. Also, we can't deny the importance of the valyrian steel dagger's arc as well, with how much history and drama it went through, we could see it was destined for greatness as well.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2022, 07:55:31 PM »
 It suggesting Arya’s arc wasn’t cool or important. BUT……Jon Snows was more involved and key. He came back from the freaking dead……unifies everyone…..was the true heir to the throne…..the whole show was based around him more or less

Arya killing the night King was just those two d bags trying to be crafty or sly. Didn’t fit the story at all.
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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2022, 08:03:50 PM »
It made total sense to me...


And I won't speculate on how you make the jump saying that Arya killing the Night King is meant to placate a movement designed to provide strength and awareness to sexual harassment and abuse survivors, how the fuck does one even make that leap?

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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #41 on: August 23, 2022, 08:58:23 PM »
It made total sense to me...

Yeah…..it’s something that no matter the argument or point that would try to be made behind it will not change my mind on it. That story never had a hint of Arya being ‘the one’ to kill him. It was always meant to be Jon…..from the prophecy’s and everything that happened with his character.  Her being the one was for shock value and them outsmarting themselves. Heck….watch the behind the scenes of all the actors reading the script for the first time…..they’re all shocked…errrr…..dumbfounded that she was the one who killed him.


 
And I won't speculate on how you make the jump saying that Arya killing the Night King is meant to placate a movement designed to provide strength and awareness to sexual harassment and abuse survivors, how the fuck does one even make that leap?

Maybe the #meetoo wasn’t the right way to say it. That finale was right in the thick of everything girl power. Rey being some super powerful Jedi with near zero training…..Captain Marvel was hitting the scene…..it was right as that was all going down. I think they tries to shoehorn themselves into the crowd with that move.

(I’m not saying that like I think that movement was/is a bad thing, doesn’t mean you ruin a story that’s been set up for 8 seasons though just to be part of the ‘in’ crowd)
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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #42 on: August 23, 2022, 11:45:26 PM »
I am watching this, even though I am philosophically against it.

Due to what? Do you believe they're just trying to cash in or think that some things should just be left on the page? Or do you hate the Targaryen's?
I hate that Martin spent his time writing the book this show is based on (Fire & Blood) instead of finishing the original series.

I also hate that HBO is starting a show based on this book, even though they will run into the exact same issue they did with Game of Thrones.  The book it's based on was supposed to be part 1 of a 2 book series.  I'll give you 2 guesses as to whether or not a publication date has been announced.
From what I've read on the houseofthedragon subreddit, it seems that the source material for this story is already finished. It's 7 chapters out of a 24 chapter history book. It's a book of stories and histories, somewhat similar to The Silmarillion. They already have everything they need for this show. So with that, I remain optimistic that they avoid a GoT ending and stick the landing.
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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #43 on: August 24, 2022, 07:38:47 AM »
My largest issue with it as I look back on it is the fact that Jon didn't kill the night King and wasn't proclaimed 'king' in the end was a massive deviation from what was being set up the entire time. His resurrection was voided as pointless and his lineage wasn't important either in the end and both were massive storylines and points being made.....all for nothing. Horrible writing.... Having Arya be the one who killed the night king was 100% placating to the #meetoo vibe at the time and didn't fit the show at all.

I feel that this is the entire point of the story - that everyone around a person (Jon Snow) can build them up and say "this is who you truly are," but that person can say "no, it's not who I am" and walk away.  He is a Targaryan by blood, but yet, he was raised as a Stark and he remains a Stark - he has the free will to choose who he wants to be. 

I never had a problem with GOT season 8 or the finale, I just accepted it as it was.  I wasn't going to get mad because it didn't align with what I wanted to happen.  I don't think Arya killing the Night King happened just because she's female.  It's because she trained to be a badass ninja assassin - and if you take the end of this episode of House of the Dragon into account, she possessed the knife that was handed down by Targaryan kings that was part of the belief of how to solve the threat to the realm.  In that moment, she was the one with the skills and the weapon to handle the problem when everyone else (including Jon Snow) had failed. 

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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #44 on: August 24, 2022, 07:48:08 AM »
I don't think the internet reaction fully captures GoT popularity.

I don't know a single person IRL who enjoyed the GOT ending.  It seems, from my POV, that the internet response was very similar to what I see when I talk to friends about it in person.

At the time....after reading all about the actors/actresses that were pretty much 'over' their roles and ready to move basically forcing a quicker resolution to the story.....I was 'fine' with how the show ended. The first handful of seasons were incredible....last couple were just 'alright' and it's no coincidence the show went downhill once the source material dried up.

My largest issue with it as I look back on it is the fact that Jon didn't kill the night King and wasn't proclaimed 'king' in the end was a massive deviation from what was being set up the entire time. His resurrection was voided as pointless and his lineage wasn't important either in the end and both were massive storylines and points being made.....all for nothing. Horrible writing.... Having Arya be the one who killed the night king was 100% placating to the #meetoo vibe at the time and didn't fit the show at all.

Arya was the only one who constantly trained for one thing, to kill in as many ways as possible. She was hands down the most dangerous person on that show, character development that was well in place for multiple seasons. She was destined to kill at least one major baddie, if not more. If I remember correctly, she got the Night King and also served Frey a pie made of his kin before slicing his fucking throat, and again, this was the arc she was on from the beginning. Placating the me too crowd? C'mon man....

The Frey pie should have been her full circle arc after being at the Red Wedding.  The Night King should have been Jon IMO.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #45 on: August 24, 2022, 08:25:28 AM »
My largest issue with it as I look back on it is the fact that Jon didn't kill the night King and wasn't proclaimed 'king' in the end was a massive deviation from what was being set up the entire time. His resurrection was voided as pointless and his lineage wasn't important either in the end and both were massive storylines and points being made.....all for nothing. Horrible writing.... Having Arya be the one who killed the night king was 100% placating to the #meetoo vibe at the time and didn't fit the show at all.

I feel that this is the entire point of the story - that everyone around a person (Jon Snow) can build them up and say "this is who you truly are," but that person can say "no, it's not who I am" and walk away.  He is a Targaryan by blood, but yet, he was raised as a Stark and he remains a Stark - he has the free will to choose who he wants to be. 

I never had a problem with GOT season 8 or the finale, I just accepted it as it was.  I wasn't going to get mad because it didn't align with what I wanted to happen.  I don't think Arya killing the Night King happened just because she's female.  It's because she trained to be a badass ninja assassin - and if you take the end of this episode of House of the Dragon into account, she possessed the knife that was handed down by Targaryan kings that was part of the belief of how to solve the threat to the realm.  In that moment, she was the one with the skills and the weapon to handle the problem when everyone else (including Jon Snow) had failed.

I have not read the source material so maybe there's a specific line or passage that details that knife.....but....that's something pretty easy to add to HOTD to tie into what happened in GOT.

I'm not disagreeing that she was a badass, trained assassin. Clearly she was. But for me....and many....her killing the night king didn't fit the story. More power to those of you who didn't mind it, we all have opinions and that's cool. I'm certainly not trying to say "I'm right...you're wrong"  As I mentioned a couple times, for me it felt forced....felt like a cheap trick to try and seem sly or clever....took away from the underlying theme they'd built since day one with Jon Snow.....and it didn't work, for me.
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Offline crazy climber dude

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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #46 on: August 24, 2022, 01:07:57 PM »
I was not ready for the brutality of some sections.

From your other comments, you seemed to have watched at least some of the episodes of GOT. So....just the hiatus had you psychologically sedentary?


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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #47 on: August 24, 2022, 02:00:48 PM »
I was not ready for the brutality of some C-sections.

From your other comments, you seemed to have watched at least some of the episodes of GOT. So....just the hiatus had you psychologically sedentary?



I've seen the entire GoT like 5 times over, own the books paperback and audible versions. Own the blu-ray and 4k boxsets, pored over all the extra bonus content, listened to all commentaries, have all the soundtracks  ;D :loser:


I was trying to be clever with my comment, didn't look like anyone caught on.  :biggrin:  I am plenty ready for the violence lol.
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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #48 on: August 24, 2022, 05:28:55 PM »
I was not ready for the brutality of some C-sections.

From your other comments, you seemed to have watched at least some of the episodes of GOT. So....just the hiatus had you psychologically sedentary?



I've seen the entire GoT like 5 times over, own the books paperback and audible versions. Own the blu-ray and 4k boxsets, pored over all the extra bonus content, listened to all commentaries, have all the soundtracks  ;D :loser:


I was trying to be clever with my comment, didn't look like anyone caught on.  :biggrin:  I am plenty ready for the violence lol.
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Offline ErHaO

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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #49 on: August 26, 2022, 03:47:04 AM »
I didn't expect this.

https://www.ign.com/articles/house-of-the-dragon-largest-premiere-in-hbo-history


Game of Thrones prequel House of the Dragon is HBO Max’s biggest premiere ever. The show’s debut episode was watched by 9.986 million viewers across HBO and HBO Max – the largest audience for any new show in HBO’s history.


I'm not surprised. When I went for the GoT music concert after the series ended, it was in a venue that could hold 15,000 people. It was almost packed.  and the crowd cheered for most of the season 8 visuals. I don't think the internet reaction fully captures GoT popularity.

I am not surprised this show does well. I am rooting for this show and different people are involved.

But season 8 definitely did damage, at least where I live.

It was the next in line of the liked of Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Marvel in terms of merchandise mainstay. Three of those brands were always present in stores and nerd circles despite not having new major entries in many years. I had several housemates with GOT posters on their doors and clothing articles in my student time. We even had an official GOT cooking book we used. But After season 8, pretty much all merch went into the bargain bins here and the brand dissapeared from being a common sight everywhere.

As for the record viewerships, HBO max was not an accessible thing in many countries during Game of Thrones. In The Netherlands I don't know a single person that watched it legally because HBO was locked behind an internet provider me and others did not have acces to. It was the most pirated show ever I believe, worldwide (talking about 8+ million of downloads on torrents alone for a single episode at the end of s8). There are many more legit viewers now, HBO max is fairly cheap. That does help the numbers significantly I feel.

GOT is obviously still huge and this new series has big potential, but if it had sticked the landing it would be in a much better state and that is a damn shame. 

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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #50 on: August 26, 2022, 03:36:56 PM »
I am watching this, even though I am philosophically against it.

Due to what? Do you believe they're just trying to cash in or think that some things should just be left on the page? Or do you hate the Targaryen's?
I hate that Martin spent his time writing the book this show is based on (Fire & Blood) instead of finishing the original series.

I also hate that HBO is starting a show based on this book, even though they will run into the exact same issue they did with Game of Thrones.  The book it's based on was supposed to be part 1 of a 2 book series.  I'll give you 2 guesses as to whether or not a publication date has been announced.
From what I've read on the houseofthedragon subreddit, it seems that the source material for this story is already finished. It's 7 chapters out of a 24 chapter history book. It's a book of stories and histories, somewhat similar to The Silmarillion. They already have everything they need for this show. So with that, I remain optimistic that they avoid a GoT ending and stick the landing.
Do we know how many seasons that's planned?
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Offline MinistroRaven

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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #51 on: August 26, 2022, 05:08:08 PM »
I am watching this, even though I am philosophically against it.

Due to what? Do you believe they're just trying to cash in or think that some things should just be left on the page? Or do you hate the Targaryen's?
I hate that Martin spent his time writing the book this show is based on (Fire & Blood) instead of finishing the original series.

I also hate that HBO is starting a show based on this book, even though they will run into the exact same issue they did with Game of Thrones.  The book it's based on was supposed to be part 1 of a 2 book series.  I'll give you 2 guesses as to whether or not a publication date has been announced.
From what I've read on the houseofthedragon subreddit, it seems that the source material for this story is already finished. It's 7 chapters out of a 24 chapter history book. It's a book of stories and histories, somewhat similar to The Silmarillion. They already have everything they need for this show. So with that, I remain optimistic that they avoid a GoT ending and stick the landing.
Do we know how many seasons that's planned?

Today they announced that season 2 is a go.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #52 on: August 27, 2022, 05:42:53 PM »
It was a pretty good first episode.
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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #53 on: August 28, 2022, 09:18:10 PM »
No murders tonight, and lots of dialogue.

Yea!!!  A chance to learn some background, get our curiosity up, along with quite the stand off.  :tup

Oh, and dragons!   :tup :tup
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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #54 on: August 28, 2022, 09:49:08 PM »
Good episode...

The one complaint I'm forseeing, is that it seems the story is very focused and moving with a very predictable purpose. There's no real intrigue...I think we all saw Alicent becoming the queen to be for example. There moving too quickly with this one story, and not taking their time developing the broader world. We'll see how it goes, but I'm not seeing this changing too much.

Still, I'm fully enjoying the show. :tup

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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #55 on: August 28, 2022, 10:09:22 PM »
Solid episode…..loved when the Princess crashed the party at Dragonstone.
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Offline faizoff

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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #56 on: August 29, 2022, 07:42:01 AM »
Agree with everyone, 2nd episode was fantastic.

The new title sequence animation was great, on 2nd watch realized it was the bloodline depicted (hence all that blood flowing) I would have personally preferred them using a variation of the main theme but no complaints on using the same them of GoT.

The moves by each group was great, I'm loving this new Littlefinger type character of Otto. He isn't quite evil like LF but has this vibe of self importance.

Love the character Corlys, the actor has such a commanding on-screen presence.

I think by far the favorite scene was the one in Dragonstone, everything was great about it.

So many things setup in that episode, can't wait to see them unfold.
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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #57 on: August 29, 2022, 08:21:47 AM »
Episode was pretty good.

It seems like with all the money being spent on this show, they could have afforded a new piece of theme music.  *shrugs*
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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #58 on: August 29, 2022, 08:46:47 AM »
Episode was pretty good.

It seems like with all the money being spent on this show, they could have afforded a new piece of theme music.  *shrugs*
I liken it to the Star Wars main theme. It's so iconic that it's used in every show/movie that's a part of the franchise.
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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #59 on: August 29, 2022, 09:56:33 AM »
Episode was pretty good.

It seems like with all the money being spent on this show, they could have afforded a new piece of theme music.  *shrugs*
I liken it to the Star Wars main theme. It's so iconic that it's used in every show/movie that's a part of the franchise.

Yeah....that's how I see it. At first I was a little put off by it but then just figured....it's fine. They're in a 'no win' situation there anyway. Even if they came up with a 'new' theme for the show it'd fall short of the iconic GOT intro theme and get lambasted for not living up to it. Might as well make it a franchise tagline and call it even. Neat visual intro though.
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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #60 on: August 30, 2022, 04:37:52 AM »
The one complaint I'm forseeing, is that it seems the story is very focused and moving with a very predictable purpose. There's no real intrigue...I think we all saw Alicent becoming the queen to be for example. There moving too quickly with this one story, and not taking their time developing the broader world. We'll see how it goes, but I'm not seeing this changing too much.
Sure, but I don't think it was meant to be a surprise. I saw as it as a story about Corlys and Otto's schemings and using their daughters to that end. They both wanted a line to the throne - Corlys was too direct and it backfired, Otto was subtle and bided his time, getting Alicent to simply offer comfort as soon as Aemma died because he knew it wouldn't be that long until Viserys was compelled to find a new wife, and he's evidently a better reader of people than Corlys. So Otto's game worked (for now) but Alicent is a pawn in that game (again, for now).

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Offline Chino

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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #61 on: August 30, 2022, 06:32:27 AM »
Awesome episode!

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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #62 on: August 31, 2022, 08:20:08 AM »
Really good episode.  This show is off to a great start.

As for the intro, I wish they changed the theme song slightly.  They changed the way the opening animations work, but it's still similar.  Something like that to the theme song would have been better IMO.  Having said that, the music is iconic so I can see why they made that decision.

I'm not ready to talk too much about the directness of the plot.  It's still early which means all these things we feel are predictable... well maybe won't turn out as we think?  I have heard from other people their real only complaint is the plot feels predictable as well.  I'm not ready to go down that path yet although I do see why people feel that way. 

The Dragonstone scene was awesome. 

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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #63 on: August 31, 2022, 08:28:39 AM »
I read an unfortunate spoiler yesterday that might explain why the plot feels the way it does right now.

(Apparently there's going to be a 10 year time jump in the middle of the season and all the child actors are going to be replaced with older ones. The first few episodes might strictly be for giving us a backstory and frame of reference)

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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #64 on: August 31, 2022, 08:44:17 AM »
I read an unfortunate spoiler yesterday that might explain why the plot feels the way it does right now.

(Apparently there's going to be a 10 year time jump in the middle of the season and all the child actors are going to be replaced with older ones. The first few episodes might strictly be for giving us a backstory and frame of reference)

Was that a spoiler? I feel like that was talked about leading into the series.....at least.....I know I was aware that was an aspect of the show that would transpire in the first season. Anyway, I think that'll be an interesting feature for sure.
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Offline Chino

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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #65 on: August 31, 2022, 08:56:50 AM »
I read an unfortunate spoiler yesterday that might explain why the plot feels the way it does right now.

(Apparently there's going to be a 10 year time jump in the middle of the season and all the child actors are going to be replaced with older ones. The first few episodes might strictly be for giving us a backstory and frame of reference)

Was that a spoiler? I feel like that was talked about leading into the series.....at least.....I know I was aware that was an aspect of the show that would transpire in the first season. Anyway, I think that'll be an interesting feature for sure.

It was a spoiler for me  :lol Yesterday was the first time I heard that was happening. I thought it was new information being divulged.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #66 on: August 31, 2022, 10:09:11 AM »
I read an unfortunate spoiler yesterday that might explain why the plot feels the way it does right now.

(Apparently there's going to be a 10 year time jump in the middle of the season and all the child actors are going to be replaced with older ones. The first few episodes might strictly be for giving us a backstory and frame of reference)

Was that a spoiler? I feel like that was talked about leading into the series.....at least.....I know I was aware that was an aspect of the show that would transpire in the first season. Anyway, I think that'll be an interesting feature for sure.

It was a spoiler for me  :lol Yesterday was the first time I heard that was happening. I thought it was new information being divulged.

I recall reading an article before the series began that divulged that info......maybe it was spoilerish in the article but I had thought that it was understood they were taking that approach. Especially considering a lot of the previews and teaser trailers depict multiple incarnations of said "spoiler info"
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Offline The Realm

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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #67 on: August 31, 2022, 06:35:15 PM »
I read an unfortunate spoiler yesterday that might explain why the plot feels the way it does right now.

(Apparently there's going to be a 10 year time jump in the middle of the season and all the child actors are going to be replaced with older ones. The first few episodes might strictly be for giving us a backstory and frame of reference)

Was that a spoiler? I feel like that was talked about leading into the series.....at least.....I know I was aware that was an aspect of the show that would transpire in the first season. Anyway, I think that'll be an interesting feature for sure.

It was a spoiler for me  :lol Yesterday was the first time I heard that was happening. I thought it was new information being divulged.

I recall reading an article before the series began that divulged that info......maybe it was spoilerish in the article but I had thought that it was understood they were taking that approach. Especially considering a lot of the previews and teaser trailers depict multiple incarnations of said "spoiler info"

If you have been following the info on the show at all, this definitely isn't a spoiler. If you come into watching the show blind without any previous production info etc including even seeing photos of the premier then I could see how this could be considered a very minor spoiler.

Offline Chino

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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #68 on: August 31, 2022, 07:34:58 PM »
Gotcha. Yeah, I followed zero press for this. I didn't even watch the trailer prior to the first episode.

Carry on!

Offline MrBoom_shack-a-lack

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Re: House of the Dragon - HBO - Discussion (Spoilers)
« Reply #69 on: September 05, 2022, 04:48:51 AM »
I agree that I was kinda suprised hearing the GOT theme but at the same time I understand why they used it. It's such a iconic theme at this point. However a variation would've been nice and pretty safe to do I feel.
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