Quiet quitting?

[King Postwhore]

No doubt jammindude.  The Wal Mart DC I work in is looking for help. They offer $28.00 to start. Yet Wal Mart struggles to hire and hold people.

Why is that?

[jammindude]

I agree but right now, there is so much opportunity.  Companies are paying wages most look for.

Time for those to take advantage.

It is actually a benefit for those of us who actually care about working and doing a good job.  Let the deadbeats sit around and not work, while we rake it in. 

And I’m benefiting from this too.

I HATED being an electrician. I HATED IT!!! And what was worse…my body couldn’t keep up any more, so I was having difficulty keeping any job for more than a year.

But now, thanks to the older generation leaving, COVID, and no one qualified in the work force, I was able to pick up a high paying permanent job as an electrical inspector for a local municipality! And they are training me to be a framing, plumbing, mechanical, fuel gas, foundation….and all around building inspector! They are also using dead time to train me to become a plan’s examiner!! And they are paying for 4 years of schooling so I can learn to become a building official!! It’s like doing a job and getting paid to go to college!!

PINCH ME!!!


And what’s more? Best freakin coworkers….EVER!!!

[Adami]

No doubt jammindude.  The Wal Mart DC I work in is looking for help. They offer $28.00 to start. Yet Wal Mart struggles to hire and hold people.

Why is that?

I dunno why but I remember talking to a former client who was early/mid 20's trying to get a job at a restaurant (waitress or something) and being really excited about 17 an hour. Those people are still out there, but yea, it definitely seems they're few and far between.

[KevShmev]

BTW…my point in bringing up my step son is that I’m fairly certain that his situation is far from unique. And I do feel that mental illness has taken a HUGE bite out of the work force. People are just…broken.

And don’t talk about the mental health crisis as if anyone has a viable solution because they don’t. It’s too big a problem. I’ve said this in P/R about this subject, but the problem has become so massive that it’s like in the Monty Python and the Holy Grail when King Arthur is told he must chop down the largest tree in the forest with a herring.

I agree with you.  I wouldn't even know where to begin when it comes to mental health.  I do think a fair amount of non-workers are lazy deadbeats who just don't want to work, but I agree that the pandemic and everything since has broken a lot of people, and that is definitely taking its toll on the work force.  Heck, I have not had my best year for a variety of reasons, which is probably why I am crabby now sometimes here , but I tough it out at work every day and it is usually fine, but I get that for many it can be not so easy.

[XJDenton]

I do think a fair amount of non-workers are lazy deadbeats who just don't want to work

Is this based on anything quantitative?

[Skeever]

I do think a fair amount of non-workers are lazy deadbeats who just don't want to work

Is this based on anything quantitative?

Based on what I have seen in this thread, the answer is no. It's based on people's bad experiences with family members, friends, or the particular job they work in. I get that it's very frustrating to have a deadbeat child, or know somebody else who just can't seem to pull their life together. I have a step brother who is this way. I can see how people would take solace in the idea that the problem they are facing is more widespread than it really is.

[Awaken]

I cannot imagine putting my coworkers in a tough spot by just up and quitting.  I guess there are a lot of factors that play into it, but above all else is the respect I have for them as teammates.  The notice I'd provide is more a sign of respect for them than the company I work for, though I'm extremely fortunate to work for an great organization who really walks the walk and takes pride in doing so. 

A lot of self-respect (for me) comes with doing my absolute best in work, and really in anything else I chose to do in life.  My organization rewards this, and they reward well.  Are there other companies that pay better?  Sure.  Plenty of people have left for greener pastures - a lot have come back, though, when they realize the culture there isn't the same and the extra $ isn't worth the added stress.

There are plenty of examples of people just getting by, I know some of them personally and professionally, and none of them are people I'd choose to spend time with outside of work/family obligations.  Poor work ethic translates to everything someone does and is, IMO.  Doesn't make them bad people, just not people I'd ever want to have to rely on for anything.

[Stadler]

Counterpoint: if a company IS paying you the bare minimum they can get away with (which for a lot of companies is their objective, as minimising expenditures while maximising income is essentially the goal of a capitalist enterprise) then why should the worker do any more than what they are contractually obliged to?

Because base rate isn't the only benefit you get from working.

So? Pay and benefits are agreed at the signing of the contract. The contract details what work is expected of you. Either party expecting freebies is unreasonable.

Well, now you're adding things.  "Pay and benefits".   Read what I said:  "BASE RATE (i.e. "pay") isn't the only benefit you get from working".  How many people actually quantify what their benefits cost them? How many people quantify what things like education or licensing cost them?   Or the ability to come and go as you please (if your job allows that)?   Travel perks?

I've gone through this now with three kids.  "But I'm only making $xx. per hour!"   So?  You work six hours a day, at your schedule.  So?  You get free meals while working there.  So?  You get all your licenses paid for.  So? ... and I can go on.  Even my father-in-law, when there was a reorg at his work complained about some of the wage issues; he's now retired and of all the things he misses, "wage" isn't one of them.

As for contracts, I'm sure this is said somewhere else in the thread (but I haven't read it all yet), it is exceedingly rare for the average American to sign anything that could be construed as an "employment contract" at hiring.  We are, generally, considered "at will" employees.  Exceptions are for senior managers with incentive compensation (or deferred compensation), members of a board of directors, or officers of companies wherein they are responsible for activities beyond the normal course of the job description (though it should be noted I fall into more than one of those categories and I do not have a specific employment contract).

[Herrick]

No doubt jammindude.  The Wal Mart DC I work in is looking for help. They offer $28.00 to start. Yet Wal Mart struggles to hire and hold people.

Why is that?

Wow that's more than starting pay at my job, which takes six months of on-the-job training before you get checked out.

Edit: Oh yeah and I'm from Long Island New York which has a pretty high cost of living.

[King Postwhore]

Same here too. It's crazy the turnover they have. That's fantastic starting pay.

[TAC]

The Wal Mart DC I work in is looking for help. They offer $28.00 to start. Yet Wal Mart struggles to hire and hold people.

Why is that?

$28 to start is pretty damn good. Excellent actually. I have more to say, but I don't really know how to right now.

[Spiritus]

I cannot imagine putting my coworkers in a tough spot by just up and quitting.  I guess there are a lot of factors that play into it, but above all else is the respect I have for them as teammates.  The notice I'd provide is more a sign of respect for them than the company I work for, though I'm extremely fortunate to work for an great organization who really walks the walk and takes pride in doing so. 

A lot of self-respect (for me) comes with doing my absolute best in work, and really in anything else I chose to do in life.  My organization rewards this, and they reward well.  Are there other companies that pay better?  Sure.  Plenty of people have left for greener pastures - a lot have come back, though, when they realize the culture there isn't the same and the extra $ isn't worth the added stress.

There are plenty of examples of people just getting by, I know some of them personally and professionally, and none of them are people I'd choose to spend time with outside of work/family obligations.  Poor work ethic translates to everything someone does and is, IMO.  Doesn't make them bad people, just not people I'd ever want to have to rely on for anything.

This. You saved me typing this out. 

[Herrick]

After reading through this thread and looking at a few articles on this "quiet quitting" thing, it seems like it's being a bit misrepresented in this thread. For example, if I were to do the "bare minimum" at my job that could still be a lot of shit if it's busy. Herrick doesn't do only the bare minimum, but I don't think the bare minimum is the same as actually trying to get out of doing one's job or being lazy...but it could be depending on the type of work.

It does not sound so bad to just do the work you're hired to do without bending over backwards or going the extra mile...whatever that may be. I don't know. I've never had an office job or any job that causes stress at or outside of work, so I'm not sure what these people go through.

[Stadler]

No doubt jammindude.  The Wal Mart DC I work in is looking for help. They offer $28.00 to start. Yet Wal Mart struggles to hire and hold people.

Why is that?

I dunno why but I remember talking to a former client who was early/mid 20's trying to get a job at a restaurant (waitress or something) and being really excited about 17 an hour. Those people are still out there, but yea, it definitely seems they're few and far between.

Not really directly quoting either of you, but I think some of it has to do with social media.  We don't see real life on social media, we see an idealized version of it.  I think that translates.  Why should I work like a dog for $17.00 at Wal-mart when I can "influence" and be a billionaire like Kylie Jenner?  It doesn't have to be that extreme, but the point remains, we're not always making decisions on the reality of the now, but on an idealized version of reality that doesn't always exist out of whole cloth.   "Hey Jude" wasn't the first song Paul McCartney ever wrote, and Mick Jagger didn't play a stadium as his first show.   

[Adami]

No doubt jammindude.  The Wal Mart DC I work in is looking for help. They offer $28.00 to start. Yet Wal Mart struggles to hire and hold people.

Why is that?

I dunno why but I remember talking to a former client who was early/mid 20's trying to get a job at a restaurant (waitress or something) and being really excited about 17 an hour. Those people are still out there, but yea, it definitely seems they're few and far between.

Not really directly quoting either of you, but I think some of it has to do with social media.  We don't see real life on social media, we see an idealized version of it.  I think that translates.  Why should I work like a dog for $17.00 at Wal-mart when I can "influence" and be a billionaire like Kylie Jenner?  It doesn't have to be that extreme, but the point remains, we're not always making decisions on the reality of the now, but on an idealized version of reality that doesn't always exist out of whole cloth.   "Hey Jude" wasn't the first song Paul McCartney ever wrote, and Mick Jagger didn't play a stadium as his first show.   

That might be a few people but I doubt it’s too many.

And even so, the system will work itself out. They will either succeed at influencing or they won’t and will either find another way to make ends meet or they won’t. Then they get a normal job. So it doesn’t bug me.

[wolfking]

I think Bill is right though, it still gives off the impressions that it's easy and anyone can do it.  Which then makes people doubt themselves, affects their self confidence and it goes from there.  When that's all you're seeing on social media, it infiltrates the mind and thought processes.

[Stadler]

No doubt jammindude.  The Wal Mart DC I work in is looking for help. They offer $28.00 to start. Yet Wal Mart struggles to hire and hold people.

Why is that?

I dunno why but I remember talking to a former client who was early/mid 20's trying to get a job at a restaurant (waitress or something) and being really excited about 17 an hour. Those people are still out there, but yea, it definitely seems they're few and far between.

Not really directly quoting either of you, but I think some of it has to do with social media.  We don't see real life on social media, we see an idealized version of it.  I think that translates.  Why should I work like a dog for $17.00 at Wal-mart when I can "influence" and be a billionaire like Kylie Jenner?  It doesn't have to be that extreme, but the point remains, we're not always making decisions on the reality of the now, but on an idealized version of reality that doesn't always exist out of whole cloth.   "Hey Jude" wasn't the first song Paul McCartney ever wrote, and Mick Jagger didn't play a stadium as his first show.   

That might be a few people but I doubt it’s too many.

And even so, the system will work itself out. They will either succeed at influencing or they won’t and will either find another way to make ends meet or they won’t. Then they get a normal job. So it doesn’t bug me.

You're wrong, it bugs you.

I'm not in disagreement; you're right, it will equilibrate.  But it's always in that ramp up time that things are out of whack. There was a similar sort of issue at the time of the dot com boom, it just didn't seem as obvious because those people had jobs (for about three weeks).  It's still the same net effect that the non-sexy jobs suffer while there's a new shiny thing across the street.

And I think it's more people than you think; it may not be as strong in all of them, but how many work threads have we had here where 3/4 of the posts were "my boss is a douche and I could do their job twice as good"?  It's a common sentiment; everyone to some degree or another thinks themselves better or in a better place than they actually are.  I work with two people like that now; they had direct reports once, and now they work for an organization that is very flat and doesn't lend themselves to direct reports. Both are working themselves out of the organization because they're not team players, they can't adapt, and they feel an entitlement. 

[TAC]

I think Bill is right though, it still gives off the impressions that it's easy and anyone can do it.  Which then makes people doubt themselves, affects their self confidence and it goes from there.  When that's all you're seeing on social media, it infiltrates the mind and thought processes.

Social media has completely mind fucked people.

it will equilibrate. 

[Adami]

You bug me!


But we agree. People always have and always will overvalue themselves. But I don’t think that means most young people want to be influencers. Mostly because I have and do work with a ton of young people and none of them want to be social media types. Though I do have one client who does work in social media as a money or something guy. But that doesn’t count.

[King Postwhore]

They think they can be an influencer.  95% don't realize that aren't model looking to do so. So, their life skills suck.  Better off being a gamer.

[Anguyen92]

They think they can be an influencer.  95% don't realize that aren't model looking to do so. So, their life skills suck.  Better off being a gamer.

Also, to add to this, these people better not try to think they can make it as a professional poker player in the casinos or online when they turn 18 or 21.  I've learned that lesson the hard way 11 years ago and the game is even much more tougher to make as a profession now than it was back then.

[cramx3]

They think they can be an influencer.  95% don't realize that aren't model looking to do so. So, their life skills suck.  Better off being a gamer.

It's no different as a gamer.  The cream rises to the top.  99.9% of people trying to be influencers will not be one.  This came up in another thread, where I said something similar.  I don't think it's that diferent than sports.  People watch sports as kids and think they can do it too as a profession. The equilibrium exists.

[Anguyen92]

The thing people don't realize when they see influencers or gamers or athletics is that there needs to be a lot of prep work done that people don't see on camera and if people are not able to put in the work outside of what people would see, you're not going to make it, plain and simple, and this applies to any profession really.

[King Postwhore]

I was just talking looks. You and I would never be that kind of influencer. He'll, I could try a podcast about music and probably fail.

What gets more looks for you?  Gaming or concerts?

BTW, remember when Blob went full on Gaming because it got more looks?

[KevShmev]

I do think a fair amount of non-workers are lazy deadbeats who just don't want to work

Is this based on anything quantitative?

No, that is why I said "I do think" rather than "I know for a fact that."

[axeman90210]

Whether there's a formal contract in place or not, there's generally an understanding with a job that you will provide work/productivity X in exchange for compensation Y (inclusive of benefits). I don't see any inherent value in providing more than X unless there's something else at play. If there's a discretionary performance bonus, or if you're explicitly trying to prove that you can handle more than X so that they promote you and start paying you more than Y, then sure. But otherwise it's like going to the store and voluntarily paying more than the cost of the goods you're buying. Any sense that going above and beyond for your job just for the sake of "doing a good job" is noble/admirable is the result of decades of us as a society aggrandizing employers.

[TAC]

Any sense that going above and beyond for your job just for the sake of "doing a good job" is noble/admirable is the result of decades of us as a society aggrandizing employers.

Whatever job I pay you for, I expect you to do it well. A poor job is not acceptable.

[axeman90210]

Any sense that going above and beyond for your job just for the sake of "doing a good job" is noble/admirable is the result of decades of us as a society aggrandizing employers.

Whatever job I pay you for, I expect you to do it well. A poor job is not acceptable.

Oh absolutely. Whatever's expected of you should be done and be done well.

[TAC]

 

[ReaPsTA]

Any sense that going above and beyond for your job just for the sake of "doing a good job" is noble/admirable is the result of decades of us as a society aggrandizing employers.

wat?

Animals are programmed to eat, reproduce, and maybe have some sort of social structure to them. Humans got to where they are, in part, because we rose above the minimum requirements for survival and built civilizations.

I understand that sending an extra couple emails a day might not do much to drive the species for, but if you aren't trying to do your best for its own sake, then how are you different from any other animal that farts around then dies?

[wolfking]

Any sense that going above and beyond for your job just for the sake of "doing a good job" is noble/admirable is the result of decades of us as a society aggrandizing employers.

wat?

Animals are programmed to eat, reproduce, and maybe have some sort of social structure to them. Humans got to where they are, in part, because we rose above the minimum requirements for survival and built civilizations.

I understand that sending an extra couple emails a day might not do much to drive the species for, but if you aren't trying to do your best for its own sake, then how are you different from any other animal that farts around then dies?

Because employers take advantage of this for their own gain.  My work ethic has been abused and used by managers to get ahead and take credit at their own will.

Going above and beyond your call of duty sometimes doesn't always lead to positive outcomes.  Hasnt mattered in the past how many free hours I've done, I've been shat on.

Going into a company fresh with the attitude of doing bare minimum doesn't wash with me I agree with that, but sometimes toning it down and doing just what you're expected and no more is sometimes forced upon you in situations you are in.

[XJDenton]

I do think a fair amount of non-workers are lazy deadbeats who just don't want to work

Is this based on anything quantitative?

No, that is why I said "I do think" rather than "I know for a fact that."

Well there are degrees of certainty/confidence, hence my question.

[emtee]

I just think it boils down to how we're pre-wired, built and influenced by our upbringing

Some people keep their homes, yards and lives spotless. They help neighbors and donate their time. Other people don't give a shit about these things. In both cases these inherent behaviors cross over to work ethic.

Corporations are built to attain results and profitability and will do whatever is necessary to do so, including overworking and mistreating employees in many cases, which can create bad attitudes.

[Stadler]

You bug me!


But we agree. People always have and always will overvalue themselves. But I don’t think that means most young people want to be influencers. Mostly because I have and do work with a ton of young people and none of them want to be social media types. Though I do have one client who does work in social media as a money or something guy. But that doesn’t count.

No, that's true; maybe not specifically an INFLUENCER, but the social media environment does impact how people think. It's insidious, too; my wife and two daughters understand conceptually that social media isn't really "real", except in the "snapshot" sense of things, but they all have at one time or another lamented how so-and-so has this and I don't have that.  Or so-and-so has achieved this and I'm still doing that.  Hell, we have entire social justice campaigns predicated on that very concept: "See her, be her!" What's the difference? Do you think the animal brain separates out "well, they mean WOMEN ACHIEVING, not having a makeup line and doing runway modeling (like teh Kardashians)!"   Of course not. 

[KevShmev]

Any sense that going above and beyond for your job just for the sake of "doing a good job" is noble/admirable is the result of decades of us as a society aggrandizing employers.

wat?

Animals are programmed to eat, reproduce, and maybe have some sort of social structure to them. Humans got to where they are, in part, because we rose above the minimum requirements for survival and built civilizations.

I understand that sending an extra couple emails a day might not do much to drive the species for, but if you aren't trying to do your best for its own sake, then how are you different from any other animal that farts around then dies?

Because employers take advantage of this for their own gain.  My work ethic has been abused and used by managers to get ahead and take credit at their own will.

Going above and beyond your call of duty sometimes doesn't always lead to positive outcomes.  Hasnt mattered in the past how many free hours I've done, I've been shat on.

Going into a company fresh with the attitude of doing bare minimum doesn't wash with me I agree with that, but sometimes toning it down and doing just what you're expected and no more is sometimes forced upon you in situations you are in.

I agree with you. but to go back to what I said before, doing more than the bare minimum is far more likely to result in a positive outcome (better pay, promotion, recognition, etc.) than doing just enough, wouldn't you agree?

The "work smarter. not harder" guy to whom I referred who left our company a while back was a 7-4 guy who openly joked off how he'd often get to work around 6:50-6:55 and sit in his car and play on his phone until 6:59 and then come inside and start work at 7 because he wasn't about to give anyone any extra minutes.  That is such a terrible attitude.  I am sorry, but if you are taking the "I am not giving the company 5 extra minutes" attitude, which trickles down into other areas, you pretty much have no one but yourself to blame when you don't get the raise or promotion you feel you "deserve," and I use deserve loosely since far too many nowadays seems to think they deserve the moon for doing jack squat.   I am a salaried worker whose hours are technically 8-5, but I almost always get to work 10-20 minutes early and just get to it.  Part of that is because I hate being late for anything, so I always leave early to ensure I am not late, but if I know I have a lot of work at the start of the day, I'd rather get to it and get rolling. 

And back to Bill's point about there being more benefits than pay to working, there was a day a while back where I had to do a quick doctor's appointment at lunch.  It was 10 minutes away, so with an hour, I figured I had time to get there and back, but I also gave my boss a heads up that I could run a little late back if there are any delays and he said that was fine.  Naturally, there ended up being a delay and I got back after like an hour and 25 minutes, so I asked my boss if I should email HR about taking 25 minutes of personal time and he said, "nah, don't worry about it, I know you're always here early, so you are good."  I know that same courtesy would not be extended to those who do as little as possible or who are never early (I know they can see what time we swipe our cards to get into the building).  And, no, not all bosses are as good about that kind of stuff as mine, but this goes back to doing your best.