Haken thread v. "Evening With" tour (some set spoilers)

[allewartenaufdaslicht_]

MOD EDIT: New era of Haken, so let's make this the new thread - like the OP says, the last one was 176 pages.

Previous thread here: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=42638.0

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After having listened to the Nightingale single today, which blew me away with the usual Hakenesque intensity, I really can't wait for the boys to drop that new album asap. I am aware of the Nightingale discussion thread here, however after that one having turned into a 176 page extravaganza of everything Haken I thought it would be fun to create an exclusive thread for speculations, wishes and intel on Haken album number 7.

Do you guys think Nightingale will be on the album? Or will it remain in the bands catalogue as an autonomous EP? Also, what direction do you guys think the band will venture into with this new record musically. Judging from what I hear in the bands newest track it sounds like they are slowly walking away from Djent as a favorite stilistic substrate for their work, which I am excited about. I would love to hear which direction you guys would like H7KEN to venture towards. Jazzy like the mighty mountain? Story-telling concepts like The Astonishing? Classical progrock à la Muse? With these 6 lads it seems that everything is a possibility. Whatever they end up doing, I am convinced that the climax of their career and discography is yet to come. Something tells me that Hakens Hotel California/Close To The Edge/Moving Pictures album is not yet released. Alright, groupie-ism over. Looking forward to your opinions!!! 

[Deadeye21]

Nightingale is only a single, so it won't be an autonomous EP ala Restoration. However, I've got a pretty strong feeling it will be in H7KEN. I think they just rushed this one out so they could play something new on tour with Peter Jones.

[Puppies_On_Acid]

I'm sure Ariich would be able to answer all of your questions, but may be under a gag order 

[allewartenaufdaslicht_]

I'm sure Ariich would be able to answer all of your questions, but may be under a gag order 

I'm happy for whatever reliable facts I can get!

[ariich]

What the hell, let's make this the new Haken thread - the previous one was going for 8 years and 176 pages (to be clear, that was definitely not 176 pages of discussion just about Nightingale! ). I've edited the OP to include a link to the previous thread.

To answer some of the questions:
- Nightingale will be on the new album.
- I haven't heard anything else from it yet but Pete's given me his impressions of it. I've quoted a relevant bit of my post from the last thread at the bottom of this post.
- The longest song on the album is something like 10 or 11 minutes and is apparently pretty crazy.
- Overall the album will be longer than Vector or Virus - Pete wasn't specific but I got the impression it'll be sort of Affinity-length.
- Recording is well progressed - they've posted on social media that Ray finished drum tracking, but also Pete has finished his parts, I think guitars are pretty much there and they've been doing vocals recently.
- I think it's looking most likely an early 2023 release, mainly due to vinyl production times now being double what they were pre-COVID.

Unrelated, but I saw Pete today and got a chance to catch up about the new album among other things. Sounding pretty exciting - for those of us who got a bit of a Mountain vibe from Nightingale, his personal take is that there's a sense of that throughout the album - not the same style, but a similar feel. What that means in practice I don't know yet.

[Max Kuehnau]

although they could release the album on CD and digital formats first (which quite a few artists were doing and still are doing), since production times for CDs had always been faster than for vinyl, even pre pandemic. Anyway, carry on. (https://superdeluxeedition.com/feature/a-pressing-issue-how-the-vinyl-revival-has-caught-out-the-music-industry-during-the-pandemic/ this is the article that I referenced btw)

[KevShmev]

The description of the longest song from forthcoming album being pretty crazy, per ariich, is why this band is no longer an auto-buy for me (or an auto-go if they come here, which is why I skipped it when they were in STL earlier this year).  Too many moments on the last couple albums were of the "crazy, but where is the melody?" nature, and I fear this new record will follow that path as well.   Yes, we know you guys can play super fast and heavy; now play something melodic, please.  I am hoping I am wrong, but time will tell.

[gzarruk]

Here's hoping the album doesn't get delayed until next year.

I agree with Kev about their direction for the last couple albums, but I think Nightingale is a good indicator that they're, hopefully, moving to more melodic stuff.

The only other thing I'd like to see, though I'm not too positive it'll happen anytime soon, is them giving the Restoration treatment to the remaining 3 songs from the demo, which had Pete on keys, and include them on the new album or another EP or something.

[Deadeye21]

The only other thing I'd like to see, though I'm not too positive it'll happen anytime soon, is them giving the Restoration treatment to the remaining 3 songs from the demo, which had Pete on keys, and include them on the new album or another EP or something.

I'd prefer a second EP. Focus on new material for the next album, put out the redone songs later.

[devieira73]

The only other thing I'd like to see, though I'm not too positive it'll happen anytime soon, is them giving the Restoration treatment to the remaining 3 songs from the demo, which had Pete on keys, and include them on the new album or another EP or something.

I'd prefer a second EP. Focus on new material for the next album, put out the redone songs later.

I really would love to hear this Restoration II EP sometime!

[Elite]

I'd rather they make new music to be honest.

[The Letter M]

An early 2023 release sounds good. Definitely need something good to look forward to next year, especially if it'll be a slightly longer album! Thanks for the updates and insight ariich!

-Marc.

[gzarruk]

The only other thing I'd like to see, though I'm not too positive it'll happen anytime soon, is them giving the Restoration treatment to the remaining 3 songs from the demo, which had Pete on keys, and include them on the new album or another EP or something.

I'd prefer a second EP. Focus on new material for the next album, put out the redone songs later.

I really would love to hear this Restoration II EP sometime!

Rich, you know what to do! 

[ariich]

The only other thing I'd like to see, though I'm not too positive it'll happen anytime soon, is them giving the Restoration treatment to the remaining 3 songs from the demo, which had Pete on keys, and include them on the new album or another EP or something.

I'd prefer a second EP. Focus on new material for the next album, put out the redone songs later.

I really would love to hear this Restoration II EP sometime!

Rich, you know what to do! 

Way ahead of you, I told Pete this would be a good idea ages ago.

[gzarruk]

The only other thing I'd like to see, though I'm not too positive it'll happen anytime soon, is them giving the Restoration treatment to the remaining 3 songs from the demo, which had Pete on keys, and include them on the new album or another EP or something.

I'd prefer a second EP. Focus on new material for the next album, put out the redone songs later.

I really would love to hear this Restoration II EP sometime!

Rich, you know what to do! 

Way ahead of you, I told Pete this would be a good idea ages ago.

Persistance is key

[Implode]

Really looking forward to the new material. I was lukewarm on Vector and Virus for a long time, but finally seeing them live again turned that around. Nightingale was so amazing live as well. The way they manage to blend complex song writing with incredibly catchy choruses and riffs amazes me.

[Fritzinger]

I'd rather they make new music to be honest.

Why not both?

The description of the longest song from forthcoming album being pretty crazy, per ariich, is why this band is no longer an auto-buy for me (or an auto-go if they come here, which is why I skipped it when they were in STL earlier this year).  Too many moments on the last couple albums were of the "crazy, but where is the melody?" nature, and I fear this new record will follow that path as well.   Yes, we know you guys can play super fast and heavy; now play something melodic, please.  I am hoping I am wrong, but time will tell.

I still don't understand this argument. Their last three albums had tons of melody on them. They also had some batshit crazy instrumental rollercoasters, but they still managed to squeeze in some beautiful motives. Veil's chorus, Puzzle Box's finale, Host, Canary Yellow (if that song doesn't move you, you are not human), Invasion. The music around these melodic ideas became more complex and far better thought through, but the typical Haken hook lines are still there imo.

[Implode]

I think the biggest difference between early and current Haken is that they don't play circus music anymore. 

[The Letter M]

I think the biggest difference between early and current Haken is that they don't play circus music anymore. 

That's probably why Roine Stolt only liked Aquarius and not much else after that.

-Marc.

[Kram]

I'd rather they make new music to be honest.

Why not both?

The description of the longest song from forthcoming album being pretty crazy, per ariich, is why this band is no longer an auto-buy for me (or an auto-go if they come here, which is why I skipped it when they were in STL earlier this year).  Too many moments on the last couple albums were of the "crazy, but where is the melody?" nature, and I fear this new record will follow that path as well.   Yes, we know you guys can play super fast and heavy; now play something melodic, please.  I am hoping I am wrong, but time will tell.

I still don't understand this argument. Their last three albums had tons of melody on them. They also had some batshit crazy instrumental rollercoasters, but they still managed to squeeze in some beautiful motives. Veil's chorus, Puzzle Box's finale, Host, Canary Yellow (if that song doesn't move you, you are not human), Invasion. The music around these melodic ideas became more complex and far better thought through, but the typical Haken hook lines are still there imo.

I agree with Fritzinger, there's plenty of melody on the last three albums. 

I don't know Kev - that's two disagrees in a week -  I used to always agree with you, I don't know what's going on LOL

[me7]

I'm with Fritzinger regarding Vector and Virus, however I feel that Nightingale is surprisingly difficult to digest. The music is very technical and it all comes together beautifully the way it is arranged, but I need to concentrate when I listen to it to not miss the details. During a spin of an album on the go, I usually spend 80% of the time concentrated on the music and 20% distracted. Nightingale blurs by me quicker than most of Haken's music if I'm not careful.

I think this is due to the mix rather than the actual music. It sounds somewhat fuzzy and flat, no lines or drum fills stick out sonically to me. I read something on the internet regarding vocal harmonies, I assume the writer meant the layered vocals near the very end but I just can't tell what exactly is going on there.

Anyways, I really like the track, but I'm surprised how many people consider it less technical than Vector/Virus.

[El Barto]

I'm kind of with Kev on this one. V/V both had plenty of melody, but it seemed separated from the "let's see how complicated we can make things" angle which was also there. Both albums had plenty I enjoyed and plenty I disregarded as it seemed more like wankery than what had come before.

[Dublagent66]

I didn't take to the last 2 releases like I did with previous material.  Hoping they turn that around with the next release.  Nightingale was pretty good.  We'll see...

[KevShmev]

Maybe I should have said "memorable melodies" rather than just melodies altogether, because, sure, they are there on the last two albums, but they most of them aren't memorable at all.  The production on both is similar to that on Affinity, but that album was loaded with great melodies all over the place.  It was like they amped up the technicality and made the overall production was a bit more metal (vs the first three albums which felt like a prog rock band production, but with some metal elements at times), but it felt like the melodies were still the priority.  On the last two albums, especially Virus, it feels like they flipped the balance.   On the plus side, Host is pretty awesome, and easily the song I go back to the most from either, but of course they ignore it live.

And I guess I am inhuman because I find Canary Yellow to be a snoozer and not moving at all.

[Ben_Jamin]

Vector has some great vocal moments for me. The Puzzle Box, A Cell Divides, and of course Host. I also feel that both Vector/Virus are not focused on catchy melodies for a reason. There's a certain feel, atmosphere, and tension in these albums that play into the concept. I see this as us, the listener, being able to feel what the patient of Dr. Rex's experiment is going through.

[jammindude]

One

One less

One less life

One less life for us to live

Whenever I hear Invasion, it is in my head for days and days. I'd call that pretty memorable.

Heck just typing that got a cycle going in my head.

[Metro]

One

One less

One less life

One less life for us to live

Whenever I hear Invasion, it is in my head for days and days. I'd call that pretty memorable.

Heck just typing that got a cycle going in my head.

And now it's in my head. The Virus spreads...

I'm optimistic about the new album. I just hope the metal aspect isn't as dominant as it was on Victor/Virus. I think they took that aspect of their sound as far as they could take it. I much prefer Affinity.

Not really relevant, but seeing them play Affinity in full right before the pandemic started was one of the best shows I've ever seen. Diego will be missed but I'm excited to see what else Pete brings to the table.

[KevShmev]

One

One less

One less life

One less life for us to live

Whenever I hear Invasion, it is in my head for days and days. I'd call that pretty memorable.

Heck just typing that got a cycle going in my head.

I will definitely give you this one.  Invasion is the one song from the last record that I actually like quite a bit.  I have little to no use for the rest of the record, but that song is a keeper.

[Deadeye21]

One

One less

One less life

One less life for us to live

Whenever I hear Invasion, it is in my head for days and days. I'd call that pretty memorable.

Heck just typing that got a cycle going in my head.

And now it's in my head. The Virus spreads...

Mine too. If it's not this, it's that War of the Worlds riff I mentioned that's in Prosthetic and the ending of Messiah Complex.

[Fritzinger]

By the way, I have heard Nightingale twice now and I was drunk the first time  and I am far from understanding that song. Now knowing that it will be on the new album, I will go back to my usual way of not listening to singles until I can hear them in the context of the album. So, no Nightingale for me until next year I guess...

[cramx3]

I guess I'll say it, I like the Virus/Vector sound a lot more than Nightingale. Virus was just such a good album IMO.  But I like metal more than prog so I think that makes sense for my tastes. 

[Revenge319]

I'm not sure what the exact definition of a melody is (it just seems too abstract for me to comprehend, I guess), but I always thought there were a lot of really memorable and interesting parts on both Vector and Virus.

[The Letter M]

Posted by Ross earlier on Facebook:

That's a wrap! Vocals for #h7ken are "in the can". Couldn't have done it without Ray Hearne both supporting me and whipping me into shape, in equal measures, every step of the way... and a huge thanks to our sound engineer Paul Win Audio Ltd (not pictured) for your patience, dedication and for bringing out the very best in my performances with your knowledge, experience and expertise!

This only means we're a little closer to getting this new stuff to your ears BUT there's still a way to go through the mixing process etc... Trust me, THIS ONE will be every bit worth the wait ;-)

HAKEN

-Marc.

[Zydar]

Apparently they have a large announcement coming tomorrow. I hope it's album related.

[Elite]

Diego returns