Haken thread v. "Evening With" tour (some set spoilers)

[Implode]

Kind of presumptuous to call it pretentious. It seems to me they are only doing what they have the most fun with.

[King Postwhore]

Pretentious?  Poppycock!

[Glasser]

I do like the new album for what it is but they are definitely a different band now. I agree with Kev that's it's cold but it does have moments of classic Haken. Virus was definitely the turning point. Honestly I could see myself losing interest in them if this is where the band is trending. The more I listen the more I'm not digging it and I actually loved it my first few spins. Revisiting the older albums isn't helping the new one at all. I need to sit with it a little more and see.

[Implode]

Anyone else notice the thing Haken does where after the second chorus or bridge/development section, there's the quiet section followed by the finale modified chorus? I know that sounds like normal song structure, but Nightingale, Taurus, and Sempiternal Beings all do it in almost exactly the same way to where they could probably be easily interchanged. Not a criticism. Just something I noticed. I feel like I remember it happening in Falling Back to Earth as well, and I'm sure it happens in other songs too.

[King Postwhore]

Name me a band 6 to 7 albums in, that sound the same as earlier in their career,

[KevShmev]

At this point, I've made my peace with the fact that "The Mountain" was merely a moment in time for this band. Fauna, not unlike the last 3 albums, has 3 or 4 songs I will routinely return for, but will rarely garner a listen from start to finish (largely because of songs like "Alphabet")

Agreed.  Going into my Haken listens this week, I had it on the brain that The Mountain and Aquarius were the band's 1a and 1b (I think I even said that the other day in this thread; our thread auditor can confirm ), but listening to The Mountain this week, I think it is their best album by a pretty comfortable margin.  I still am just as big a fan of Aquarius, but The Mountain is a whole other level.  Heck, I even like Coachroach King now (although the GG harmonies are still not my favorite part)!!

[jammindude]

Name me a band 6 to 7 albums in, that sound the same as earlier in their career,

Dream Theater

Don't get me wrong, they've had some mild sound and influence shifting over the years. But, think of just the JLB era for a sec. IAW is not terribly stylistically different than 8V.  Which is why I don't often listen to them much anymore. They do one thing, and they do it really well. And there are minor tweaks in an attempt to keep things feeling a bit fresh.

That's why what Haken is doing is far more interesting to my ears. If you take the V/V albums as a single project, NOTHING they've done sounds like anything else they've done. That's literally my favorite thing about Haken. I can listen to 7 albums and get 6 completely different bands.

[me7]

Yes, and all 6 of these directions are masterfully executed. There is lots of 80s retro music but Affinity stands apart as an unique experience.

[KevShmev]

With all due respect, jammindude, even with cheating and calling Virus and Vector the same album, that is a major stretch to suggest that every Haken album sounds nothing like the others.  I have still only listened to the new album once, but I was like, "Yep, sounds like newer Haken," on just about every song.  Not saying they are AC/DC, but they have a particular sound and style that is theirs that is all over the last four albums (at the very least).

[King Postwhore]

Dream Theater has most definitely changed over time.

[Implode]

In my mind IaW and 8vm sound wildly different, but maybe that's just me. Also many sections in Sempiternal Beings sound straight out of The Mountain, and An Elephant Never Forgets sounds straight out of Aquarius. But at the same time, their sound has evolved, and they are always trying new things.

[mike099]

This album is going to take a few more listens to digest.  Will be interesting which songs and how many they play from the new album on the North American tour.  I will be at the first show in Nashville.

[Elite]

I hear nothing 'atonal' on this album at all.

[jammindude]

With all due respect, jammindude, even with cheating and calling Virus and Vector the same album, that is a major stretch to suggest that every Haken album sounds nothing like the others.  I have still only listened to the new album once, but I was like, "Yep, sounds like newer Haken," on just about every song.  Not saying they are AC/DC, but they have a particular sound and style that is theirs that is all over the last four albums (at the very least).

I never said same album, but they do feel like the same artistic project. One being a direct conceptual sequel to the other.

Like Automata 1 & 2 by BTBAM. Separate albums, same project.

[KevShmev]

With all due respect, jammindude, even with cheating and calling Virus and Vector the same album, that is a major stretch to suggest that every Haken album sounds nothing like the others.  I have still only listened to the new album once, but I was like, "Yep, sounds like newer Haken," on just about every song.  Not saying they are AC/DC, but they have a particular sound and style that is theirs that is all over the last four albums (at the very least).

I never said same album, but they do feel like the same artistic project. One being a direct conceptual sequel to the other.

Like Automata 1 & 2 by BTBAM. Separate albums, same project.

Semantics aside , my main point still stands. 

[Glasser]

Name me a band 6 to 7 albums in, that sound the same as earlier in their career,

I can't but that's not a bad thing as musicians evolve, but saying that Haken isn't the same band is not a bad thing, sorry if it came off that way, that said, I just personally prefer their older style which does not make the new album bad by any means. They are one of the most talented bands in the genre.

[Implode]

I hear nothing 'atonal' on this album at all.

I'm probably using the term incorrectly, but I'm just referring to all the sections with lots of wholetone scales and odd intervals that make the key a bit ambiguous.

[The Letter M]

Over-all thoughts so far - my favorite album since Affinity, and possibly contender for 3rd fave of their whole discography (behind Visions and Affinity). Every track is full of great rhythms and melodies, some of which have been earworms for me. The only part I actively dislike is the "fast screaming through a filter" part of "Beneath The White Rainbow", which just sound like someone dying over a subway announcer speaker. Without a lyric booklet in hand, it's really hard to tell what they're saying in this part. It could be related to the theme of the song, but I haven't listened to it enough yet to parse that. Either way, it's the only part of the album that is grating to my ears. Everything else sounds great to me, even the Gentle Giant and Queen inspired sounds of "Elephants Never Forget", which is suitably epic, and the come-down-closer of "Eyes Of Ebony" is just beautiful. I love the last three tracks and their order as well. Great way to close the album with those three. I really like the first three tracks as well. The middle three are still trying to click with me, but I enjoy them for the most part so far.

If I had to grade this one, I'd say it's currently a 8 or 8.5 out of 10 for me, and it's slowly growing on me with each listen. Leading up to the release, I had been bingeing their previous albums and just really vibed with their first three, which are just SOOOO melodic it's insane. Then of course Affinity has been a favorite ever since it came out for me, and it was their first new album after I became a fan, so it holds a special place for me. My re-listens to Vector/Virus with fresh ears have really helped as I think I like them a bit more now than when they came out. They're not as high up as their first four for me, but they've improved over time.

-Marc.

[TM172003]

I really like the album so far. Like others have said, I'm leaning towards the non-single tracks being the better half but that probably is because I've listened to the other 4 to death.

The new songs definitely feel disjointed at times but I felt like that about The Alien when that came out, which feels like a campfire song compared to the madness in this album. It will probably take a few more listens and it'll start to click.

There's just a couple of things I would've changed, those being the weird Mickey Mouse vocals in Beneath the White Rainbow, the solos in Island in the Clouds and Sempiternal Beings (which feel really out of place to me) and the heavier sections in Eyes of Ebony. The softer parts of that track are so good, especially when you know the context of the lyrics, and the heavier parts seem a bit out of place in that track.

On a side note, one of the complaints I kept hearing is of a lack of hooks and memorable melodies, which I thought was strange when the album is full of great choruses, especially Elephants Never Forget and Beneath the White Rainbow. I've gotten goosebumps every time so far when it gets to the chorus in those two.

[me7]

Disliking the heavy parts in Eyes of Ebony should be declared a criminal offense. They successfully release so much tension that the weird rhythms of the choruses build up.

[ariich]

Disliking the heavy parts in Eyes of Ebony should be declared a criminal offense. They successfully release so much tension that the weird rhythms of the choruses build up.

Also they're not exactly heavy. Very Tigran-inspired jazz-rock. But I think I know what TM means - those bits are not as soft. But I agree with you, the song is perfectly crafted.

With all due respect, jammindude, even with cheating and calling Virus and Vector the same album, that is a major stretch to suggest that every Haken album sounds nothing like the others.  I have still only listened to the new album once, but I was like, "Yep, sounds like newer Haken," on just about every song.  Not saying they are AC/DC, but they have a particular sound and style that is theirs that is all over the last four albums (at the very least).

Kev is going to have a heart attack, but I'm going to pretty much agree with him on this one in the sense that I think all their albums absolutely sound like Haken. There's something about the way they craft vocal melodies especially - a sense of epic melancholy - that has been pervasive in their music starting with the demo right through to Fauna.

However, I do also agree with jammindude that they take a different approach and focus with each album that means each is distinct. The bit I don't agree with Kev on is that Fauna simply sounds like "new Haken". Taking all their albums as a reference point, Virus and Fauna have very little in common other than features that are common in all their albums (except maaaaybe the first two, where those features were present but not all to the same extent).

But it's the marrying of these two things that is why I love Haken so much. The features of their music that are ever-present - big choruses, epic melancholy, rhythmic intricacy and dynamism - and, crucially, the way they deliver those things, are things that just hit the right spot for me. That base level of quality combined with the excitement of each album (taking V/V as a two-parter) having a distinct focus and identity is exactly the sort of thing that I love about music.

[devieira73]

Just to say that I LOVE that section of Beneath The White Rainbow with those weird vocals, it has a really cool groove and is very unexpected.

[ProfessorPeart]

Got my first listen down and I am not feeling it at all.

I'm going to channel TAC here and say that I am really having a hard time finding the rhythm or memorable riffs on this. It's just a lot of dissonance with Ross singing over it. What came to mind is what I call the reverse John Arch. Ross has some nice melodies he is singing but the music is off somewhere else.

Hoping this to be a grower but for now, this is firmly at the bottom of their discography for me.

[Glasser]

Got my first listen down and I am not feeling it at all.

I'm going to channel TAC here and say that I am really having a hard time finding the rhythm or memorable riffs on this. It's just a lot of dissonance with Ross singing over it. What came to mind is what I call the reverse John Arch. Ross has some nice melodies he is singing but the music is off somewhere else.

Hoping this to be a grower but for now, this is firmly at the bottom of their discography for me.

My wife would echo that same sentiment but on a serious note this album is having the opposite effect. My first few spins I connected with it but since then its losing steam for me. I'll stick with it a bit more and then post my final thoughts.

[emtee]

I've got 3 spins under my belt. Still not sure about it as a total front-to-back piece of work. There are brilliant emotional parts that really hit hard while other sections seem un-musical and kind of pull you too far from the melodies. After a few more spins I will have a better feel for it. Maybe it will be great and maybe it will end up near the bottom of their discography. Still uncertain.

[Lonk]

I'm not the biggest Haken fan, but listen to their tracks here and there.

With that said, I thought the album was alright, some good material sprinkled throughout but nothing that made me want to listen to it again.

[gzarruk]

Both Pete and Ross have said in different interviews thay they wrote more stuff than what ended up being used for the album. Ross even said they cut at least one fully finished song from the final album (he said at Prog Report). I'm intrigued to know if they plan to release the song(s) sometime in the future as another EP or as part of their next album, but we just got a new album, so it won't be anytime soon I guess

[cramx3]

I'm not understanding the thought this is different. Sounds like Haken to me.  Yeah, not exactly the same and certainly not the same style of Virus/Vector but still VERY much Haken.  I guess at least some of that comes down to Ross's vocals, but really, just the whole jazzy and super proggy elements.  It's 100% a Haken album to me and I'm enjoying it. 

[jammindude]

Both Pete and Ross have said in different interviews thay they wrote more stuff than what ended up being used for the album. Ross even said they cut at least one fully finished song from the final album (he said at Prog Report). I'm intrigued to know if they plan to release the song(s) sometime in the future as another EP or as part of their next album, but we just got a new album, so it won't be anytime soon I guess

Could that be the Japanese bonus track mentioned earlier?

[Shooters1221]

I'm 6 "listen throughs"..It's Haken, but sheesh, I just feel they are moving towards sounding like machines with the lack of human feel....It's fucking fantastic musicianship, incredible production and crazy timing and everything I love except  human"feel". I LOVED Vector and Virus, and of course The Mountain but they need some air in their sound, the bass guitar tone is so mechanical and sounds like it could be played with keys and the guitars are like "dude...bend a note"....I don't know, I love these guys but I'm just not feeling this one yet.

[KevShmev]

Kev is going to have a heart attack, but I'm going to pretty much agree with him on this one in the sense that I think all their albums absolutely sound like Haken. There's something about the way they craft vocal melodies especially - a sense of epic melancholy - that has been pervasive in their music starting with the demo right through to Fauna.

However, I do also agree with jammindude that they take a different approach and focus with each album that means each is distinct. The bit I don't agree with Kev on is that Fauna simply sounds like "new Haken". Taking all their albums as a reference point, Virus and Fauna have very little in common other than features that are common in all their albums (except maaaaybe the first two, where those features were present but not all to the same extent).

But it's the marrying of these two things that is why I love Haken so much. The features of their music that are ever-present - big choruses, epic melancholy, rhythmic intricacy and dynamism - and, crucially, the way they deliver those things, are things that just hit the right spot for me. That base level of quality combined with the excitement of each album (taking V/V as a two-parter) having a distinct focus and identity is exactly the sort of thing that I love about music.

[The Letter M]

Just came back here to say that "Eyes Of Ebony" is such a perfect album closer for this album. That chorus is just SO GOOD, and I can't help but sing-along when it gets to "the gates of Valhalla" - the rhythmic placement of those syllables is just simply amazing. Such a good song.

-Marc.

[Zantera]

Curious to check this album out this week. Didn't really get on the Haken train initially when they started out, thought their debut and Visions felt a bit like "trying to be classic DT but not as great" (it's been a long time so maybe this doesn't hold up) but I did check out Virus and Vector in the last month out of curiosity. They seem to have gone in a bit of a djent influenced direction and it sounds maybe a bit more 'mechanical' than I remember from their early days. Some talented musicians and you can tell they know how to play their instruments but I feel like it's maybe lacking a bit in the songwriting department. I would probably rate both Virus and Vector 7/10 which isn't a bad rating by any means, I think they do what they do pretty well, just something lacking to really elevate it and make it stand out, to me at least.

But I'm willing to concede that my general lack of interest in the 'straight edge prog metal with clean vocals' area probably makes it harder for a band like Haken to break through the barrier as well. If I was still hugely into DT for example I think I would like Haken a lot more because they seem to have picked up the prog metal torch when DT dropped it and out of all the bands that sorta fit in this 'subgenre' of prog, Haken seems to be doing a pretty well job representing. A lot of other prog bands I like more use harsh vocals to add some spice in the mix and I know that's not for everyone.

Curious to check out Fauna though.

[mike099]

I know I will be in the minority, but I like Vector/Virus much more than the new album.  Maybe I will like the songs better live.

[emtee]

I know I will be in the minority, but I like Vector/Virus much more than the new album.  Maybe I will like the songs better live.

Agree