We need to talk about InsideOut...

[RoeDent]

Since InsideOut became part of Sony a few years ago, they have made some somewhat questionable artistic decisions that put money above artistic integrity that Prog should be known for.

It was the label who decided to call the newest Roine Stolt album Roine Stolt's The Flower King, thus creating the eternal debate: Is it an official part of the Flower Kings' discography?

It was the label who decided to overly complicate the newest Spock's Beard and Sea Within albums by adding a second disc even though there's plenty of room on the initial discs for those tracks. The Album is a Symphony of rock music. Every track is carefully and meticulously ordered so as to create a single flowing musical experience that is set in stone, like the great Symphonies of the Classical Tradition. The inclusion of bonus tracks undermines this cohesion and unity.

What is going wrong at modern Prog's greatest label? Have they Sold Out by signing off to The Music Industry? Is it going to get worse?

[Crow]

did you mean like putting bonus tracks on a second disc or something?
'cause personally i hate when bonus tracks are on the same CD as the album & putting them on a separate disc is obnoxious
though regardless sometimes it artistically makes sense for an album that could fit on one disc to be on two (see M83's Hurry Up, We're Dreaming for a good example) anyways

[The Letter M]

With regards to Roine Stolt's TFK, I think it's pretty clear that it is NOT an official part of the TFK discography, but more of a follow-up to the original album The Flower King, which is a SOLO album by Roine Stolt, which just happened to feature players who would become members of The Flower Kings. It's just another Roine Stolt solo album, but with a sub-title for the artist name. Seems simple enough to me, and I think it's just named that way to help sell more records, which is what a record label really wants to do, right? Sell more albums for the label and the artist to profit from and generate more revenue for everyone involved.

With regards to bonus discs/tracks, at least with Spock's Beard, they have been doing this for YEARS, well before Noise Floor came out. Feel Euphoria has 2 bonus tracks, while Octane has a whole disc of outtakes and special tracks tacked on. The self-titled 9th album, while not released by Inside Out, had a bonus disc release in Japan (though the Japanese labels almost always ask bands for exclusive material for their release so that Japanese fans can buy domestically and not import, keeping their money within the local economy). And their 10th album, X, had a special edition bonus track that was limited to early pre-orders. The eventual retail version (from Music Theories) omitted this track, but I think both versions were NOT on Inside Out. Later on, BNADS, also not initially on Inside Out, was self-released and had a whole disc of bonus tracks (a decision made by the band, I am sure).

At any rate, in the case of Spock's Beard, they had ALWAYS offered up bonus tracks for Inside Out's European releases, with demos on their first three albums, the song "Hurt" for Day For Night, and later on a bonus disc of demos/in-the-studio-jams/a cover for Snow. So at least for SB, the idea of bonus tracks for Inside Out is not a new one, and even if you consider that most of those earlier ones are just extras (demos and covers), the later albums with original songs relegated as bonus tracks, most of those decisions were probably the band's (at least in the case of BNADS, which still had one exclusive track not release by Inside Out).

It's frustrating, I know, when a disc still has room left and there's bonus material that would have obviously been able to fit on the first disc, but I think putting them on a second disc is a business decision. I remember reading that double-disc albums are counted as a sale of 2 discs when counting album sales, so an album that sold 5000 copies that was a single disc would get counted as 5000, but an album with a bonus disc that sold 5000 copies would get counted as 10000...maybe? Perhaps someone with more knowledge of the music industry can correct me, but I do recall reading this somewhere (maybe even here). If that's the case, relegating B-Sides to a seperate disc is a way to boost sales numbers for an album, which is smart in my opinion.

As for what to do with those bonus tracks? Just do what I do - come up with your own running order! Be as meticulous as you want, or just tack them all on before the closing track. Personally, I lay out my personal track lists as fantasy LPs, with chunks of 18-26 minutes of music per "LP Side", and lay out an album like that, figuring out which tracks flow well into and out of each other. It's really how I only listen to albums like Octane, BNADS, and Noise Floor (all of which have significant numbers of bonus tracks), as well as many of the Flower Kings albums (which have various bonus tracks/discs across the globe).

I don't think Inside Out is maliciously holding albums hostage before releasing them to the public, giving their artists no choice or say in the matter of which tracks should and shouldn't be on the album if they weren't happy with it. I know there have been interviews with members of various bands who probably say "I wish ___B-Side___ was on the main album", but I'm sure it was all handled in a way that was professional and made everyone happy in the end.

And to be honest, if these bands just released their music by themselves, off-label, can we really say that they would still be operating today if it wasn't for Inside Out and their help in getting some of these bands to the level of popularity they have today?

-Marc.

[RoeDent]

With regards to Roine Stolt's TFK, I think it's pretty clear that it is NOT an official part of the TFK discography, but more of a follow-up to the original album The Flower King, which is a SOLO album by Roine Stolt, which just happened to feature players who would become members of The Flower Kings. It's just another Roine Stolt solo album, but with a sub-title for the artist name. Seems simple enough to me, and I think it's just named that way to help sell more records, which is what a record label really wants to do, right? Sell more albums for the label and the artist to profit from and generate more revenue for everyone involved.

Yes, but I feel like it's the sort of thing that pre-Sony InsideOut would not have done. It used to be about artistic integrity rather than just selling records. Again, this is not on the bands themselves. A lot of them were on IO before they joined Sony. They didn't ask for this.

With regards to bonus discs/tracks, at least with Spock's Beard, they have been doing this for YEARS, well before Noise Floor came out. Feel Euphoria has 2 bonus tracks, while Octane has a whole disc of outtakes and special tracks tacked on. The self-titled 9th album, while not released by Inside Out, had a bonus disc release in Japan (though the Japanese labels almost always ask bands for exclusive material for their release so that Japanese fans can buy domestically and not import, keeping their money within the local economy). And their 10th album, X, had a special edition bonus track that was limited to early pre-orders. The eventual retail version (from Music Theories) omitted this track, but I think both versions were NOT on Inside Out. Later on, BNADS, also not initially on Inside Out, was self-released and had a whole disc of bonus tracks (a decision made by the band, I am sure).

At any rate, in the case of Spock's Beard, they had ALWAYS offered up bonus tracks for Inside Out's European releases, with demos on their first three albums, the song "Hurt" for Day For Night, and later on a bonus disc of demos/in-the-studio-jams/a cover for Snow. So at least for SB, the idea of bonus tracks for Inside Out is not a new one, and even if you consider that most of those earlier ones are just extras (demos and covers), the later albums with original songs relegated as bonus tracks, most of those decisions were probably the band's (at least in the case of BNADS, which still had one exclusive track not release by Inside Out).

First of all, I didn't realise that SB9 was on a different label. Probably explains why it's so hard to get now. Far far more expensive than any other SB album. Second, Spock's have done bonus discs in the past, but they also had standard editions available with just the album. Noise Floor is the first where the "bonus disc" comes as standard.

To conclude, I'm just finding it slightly concerning that the label seems to be interfering with decisions that should be left entirely to the artists. In a few interviews when they've been asked certain questions and the answer comes back "Oh, the label decided to do that", with a somewhat puzzled and "meh, we just let them do it" expression on their face. And again, I'm totally not against these artists making as much money from their work as they can. It's just that Prog has always seemed to be above that whole money-making thing that is more Pop's domain.

[wolfking]

An excellent Fates Warning album and a fine counterpart to Parallels.  It's not quite Parallel level but close and one of my favs........oh wait.

[The Letter M]

Just read an interview with SB regarding their "Cutting Room Floor" EP included with Noise Floor, and apparently, Thomas Waber, of Inside Out, did not even want to include the cut songs, but it was the BAND that insisted on including them.

https://rockandrollglobe.com/rock/three-so-wise/

"So, how did you guys decide what would make Noise Floor and what would make the bonus disc, Cutting Room Floor? Were there any heavy disagreements about it?

DM: Oh yeah, we had plenty of discussions. We all finally became exhausted and were able to agree on something in the end though. Thomas [Waber], the president of Inside Out Music, had a lot of input into song choice and the running order of the songs as well. He has a really good ear for such things, and more importantly, an objective opinion.  We're all so inside of the whole thing that our judgement is often clouded.

TL: It's supposed to be a democracy, but people will always get their own interests in there. It can be a mess, but at some point, we just resort to going to Thomas. He has a good handle on album order and that sort of thing, so we lean on him. Once we realized that we were getting nowhere in determining what should be, we just said, "Thomas, what do you think?" The only thing we ended up differing on was that he wanted Noise Floor to be alone and not release those other four songs."

So would you have rather had an album without those songs EVER being released? The band didn't seem to think they should go unreleased, so they put them in a bonus disc, despite what IO's head wanted, so in that case, it wasn't IO's meddling to include a bonus disc.

-Marc.

[MinistroRaven]

Didn't know where to put this:

China based progressive metal quartet OU sign with InsideOutMusic for the release of their debut album "one"
Progressive metal quartet OU (pronunciation: "O") have signed with InsideOutMusic for the release of their debut album "one".  Hailing from Beijing, China, the group combine a variety of elements and influences (Devin Townsend, The Gathering, Radiohead to name a few), to create their extremely unique sound.

Anthony Vanacore (drummer) comments:
The music from our debut album, "one" comes from the deepest parts of our souls; I'm so proud and grateful of the outcome and I hope it will find people to resonate with. I believe the record is historic in many ways as it to my knowledge is the first time a Chinese band has been signed to a western major record label. We are very honored to be signed to Inside Out music, a label which hosts many bands and artists we've grown up listening to and idolizing, including many bands and artists that influenced this very record. The music on the record is fresh, dynamic and sometimes surreal sounding and I believe will appease many music-lovers' search for something that is both in and outside the box, drawing you into a new world called OU.

InsideOutMusic Label Manager Thomas Waber comments:
We are really excited about signing OU from China, as we were blown away when we heard the music for the first time. Very unique and modern, but still familiar sounding, a rare find these days!


Formed by drummer and songwriter Anthony Vanacore, the idea behind OU came from each member having a long history of playing in local house bands and seeking new challenges in their growth as musicians. Vanacore would go on to recruit talented guitarist and fellow house band veteran Jing Zhang, as well as highly sought-after bassist Chris Cui, with the three of them laying the initial groundwork for the song structure and creative approach. OU recruited highly talented singer Lynn Wu to front the project, who brings with her ethereal vocals that contrast with the dynamic and engaging music, delivering a powerful and soaring sound. On their debut, OU set out with only one clear goal in mind, and that was to make certain that every song had its own unique identity.
Stay tuned for more updates on OU.


OU Lineup:
Lynn Wu – Vocals
Anthony Vanacore – Drums, Prod
Zhang Jing – Guitars
Chris Cui - Bass

OU Online
https://www.outheband.com/
https://www.instagram.com/ou.theband/
https://www.facebook.com/ou.theband

[MinistroRaven]

Progressive metal quartet OU (pronunciation: "O") are pleased to announce their debut album 'one' due out on 6th May 2022 on InsideOutMusic. A teaser clip is available now to get a taste of the group's unique sound:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWYEAo9l1G8

[Peter Mc]

Since InsideOut became part of Sony a few years ago, they have made some somewhat questionable artistic decisions that put money above artistic integrity that Prog should be known for.

It was the label who decided to call the newest Roine Stolt album Roine Stolt's The Flower King, thus creating the eternal debate: Is it an official part of the Flower Kings' discography?

It was the label who decided to overly complicate the newest Spock's Beard and Sea Within albums by adding a second disc even though there's plenty of room on the initial discs for those tracks. The Album is a Symphony of rock music. Every track is carefully and meticulously ordered so as to create a single flowing musical experience that is set in stone, like the great Symphonies of the Classical Tradition. The inclusion of bonus tracks undermines this cohesion and unity.

What is going wrong at modern Prog's greatest label? Have they Sold Out by signing off to The Music Industry? Is it going to get worse?

Forgetting the Roine Stolt thing (as I don't know enough about the situation to comment) based on your assertion about an album being like a symphony, wouldn't it make sense to put the bonus tracks on a separate disc so they don't interfere with the main album/symphony?

[MinistroRaven]

InsideOut is now on Basecamp offering all their releases in different qualities including 24-bit HD
https://insideoutmusic.bandcamp.com

[The Letter M]

InsideOut is now on Basecamp offering all their releases in different qualities including 24-bit HD
https://insideoutmusic.bandcamp.com

Whoa, that's huge! Lots of great back catalog releases in there, and I'm sure there are more to come. Bandcamp (not basecamp ) is a great place to stream, but also, now I wonder if, on Bandcamp Fridays, the artists will still get 100% of proceeds or if part of that will go to Inside Out as well?

-Marc.

[HOF]

Magna Carta also has a page on Bandwagon for all of those old albums too. Funny enough, I just tracked down a copy of the Dali's Dilemma album on Discogs, and never thought to look on Bandcamp for it.

[MinistroRaven]

InsideOut is now on Basecamp offering all their releases in different qualities including 24-bit HD
https://insideoutmusic.bandcamp.com

Whoa, that's huge! Lots of great back catalog releases in there, and I'm sure there are more to come. Bandcamp (not basecamp ) is a great place to stream, but also, now I wonder if, on Bandcamp Fridays, the artists will still get 100% of proceeds or if part of that will go to Inside Out as well?

-Marc.

Yes, Bandcamp.
For my daily work I use Basecamp and I got that wrong there.

I believe that on Bandcamp Fridays all proceedings go to the bands no matter what. I haven't read/heard of instances where that's not the case.

[The Letter M]

InsideOut is now on Basecamp offering all their releases in different qualities including 24-bit HD
https://insideoutmusic.bandcamp.com

Whoa, that's huge! Lots of great back catalog releases in there, and I'm sure there are more to come. Bandcamp (not basecamp ) is a great place to stream, but also, now I wonder if, on Bandcamp Fridays, the artists will still get 100% of proceeds or if part of that will go to Inside Out as well?

-Marc.

Yes, Bandcamp.
For my daily work I use Basecamp and I got that wrong there.

I believe that on Bandcamp Fridays all proceedings go to the bands no matter what. I haven't read/heard of instances where that's not the case.

Makes sense, I wasn't sure how it would work out if the album was hosted on the label's account rather than the individual band's/artist's account on Bandcamp.

-Marc.

[MinistroRaven]

I just downloaded the Bandcamp app to stream these albums when needed. Specially the one by TA, and some others by different artists

[Buddyhunter1]

InsideOut is now on Basecamp offering all their releases in different qualities including 24-bit HD
https://insideoutmusic.bandcamp.com

Whoa, that's huge! Lots of great back catalog releases in there, and I'm sure there are more to come. Bandcamp (not basecamp ) is a great place to stream, but also, now I wonder if, on Bandcamp Fridays, the artists will still get 100% of proceeds or if part of that will go to Inside Out as well?

-Marc.

Yes, Bandcamp.
For my daily work I use Basecamp and I got that wrong there.

I believe that on Bandcamp Fridays all proceedings go to the bands no matter what. I haven't read/heard of instances where that's not the case.

Makes sense, I wasn't sure how it would work out if the album was hosted on the label's account rather than the individual band's/artist's account on Bandcamp.

-Marc.

I don't think Minstro's correct here. All that happens on Bandcamp Fridays is that Bandcamp waives all of their own cut of all sales (which is already pretty low, 15% for digital sales and 10% for physical sales). 100% of the money goes to whoever set up the account, though because of taxes and processing fees what they get is always a little lower than what you actually paid. What happens to the money once it's in the hands of the account owner is anyone's guess. If the band themself owns the account, then I imagine they get all of it, but if it's a label's account then it wouldn't surprise me if they took their own cut before passing on whatever's left to the band.

[MinistroRaven]

I just got an email notifying that IO added a whole bunch of releases.

Oh, and you are correct, I forgot this was a label account and not band account, so your assessment is probably the right one BH1

[The Letter M]

I just got an email notifying that IO added a whole bunch of releases.

Looks like they've got all the Haken albums on there, including the previously-vinyl/CD combo-only release of L+1VE (the audio of the bonus videos on the L-1VE DVD set from ProgPower USA 2016). I also spot all the Transatlantic studio albums, the post-Neal Spock's Beard studio albums and compilation, pretty much all of the Flower Kings studio albums (presumably all of the newer remixes/remasters that Roine has done over the past few years), all of the main albums by The Tangent, and I think everything by Pain Of Salvation.

It's a pretty good catalog so far and I'm sure they'll continue to upload even more as they go along.

-Marc.

[MinistroRaven]

Today's releases are on Bandcamp now.

Einar, Hackett and Six by Six newest single all in 24​-​bit HD 

[MinistroRaven]

Today they added some Jolly albums and a whole bunch more

[MinistroRaven]

22 albums added now to Bandcamp

[MinistroRaven]

InsideOutMusic just announced The Jethro Tull 
Christmas Album - Fresh Snow At Christmas (2024 Remix)

Will be released december 6th