Ms. Marvel Spoiler Thread - S1E6 No Normal

[ariich]

I don't think the show is aimed specifically at angsty teens AT ALL. I think there's wonderful nuance in the characterisations - stereotypical on the surface but already giving different perspectives and nice depth. As has been said, the emotional moment when Kamala realises she's hurt her dad who was trying to be enthusiastic and join in is great, and a good example of this.

I guess I just don't really get the whole "I'm not the target audience" mentality (not directed to anyone in particular, but a concept I'm seeing quite a lot about this show). My life isn't represented in this show, but nor is it in many shows and movies I watch. I like stories with a range of different concepts and perspectives.

[jammindude]

I don't think the show is aimed specifically at angsty teens AT ALL. I think there's wonderful nuance in the characterisations - stereotypical on the surface but already giving different perspectives and nice depth. As has been said, the emotional moment when Kamala realises she's hurt her dad who was trying to be enthusiastic and join in is great, and a good example of this.

I guess I just don't really get the whole "I'm not the target audience" mentality (not directed to anyone in particular, but a concept I'm seeing quite a lot about this show). My life isn't represented in this show, but nor is it in many shows and movies I watch. I like stories with a range of different concepts and perspectives.

I was thinking the same thing.

When I watch a rom com…or any designated “chick flick” for that matter…I am definitely not the target audience. Some of them are homogenous, by the numbers, and overly cliche. But others are quite clever with excellent performances. That means much more to me than whether or not I’m the target audience.

[bosk1]

I don't think the show is aimed specifically at angsty teens AT ALL. I think there's wonderful nuance in the characterisations - stereotypical on the surface but already giving different perspectives and nice depth. As has been said, the emotional moment when Kamala realises she's hurt her dad who was trying to be enthusiastic and join in is great, and a good example of this.

Agreed on all counts.  There is some great character work going on here, both in the writing and the acting. 

I guess I just don't really get the whole "I'm not the target audience" mentality (not directed to anyone in particular, but a concept I'm seeing quite a lot about this show). My life isn't represented in this show, but nor is it in many shows and movies I watch. I like stories with a range of different concepts and perspectives.

I disagree with you in concept here.  I mean, movie and TV studios take demographics into account all the time, and they target particular demographics for their movies and shows.  And by and large, it works.  That of course doesn't mean people outside the target demographic won't like a particular movie or show.  It happens all the time.  Sometimes because of people like yourself that are just more open to checking things out that maybe aren't targeted at you.  Or just because the movie or show just ends up transcending its target demographic for whatever reason.  I just take issue with the specifics mentioned by Orbert, because I don't see the show actually doing or trying to do most of the specific things he is criticizing it for. 

[ariich]

I guess I just don't really get the whole "I'm not the target audience" mentality (not directed to anyone in particular, but a concept I'm seeing quite a lot about this show). My life isn't represented in this show, but nor is it in many shows and movies I watch. I like stories with a range of different concepts and perspectives.

I disagree with you in concept here.  I mean, movie and TV studios take demographics into account all the time, and they target particular demographics for their movies and shows.  And by and large, it works.  That of course doesn't mean people outside the target demographic won't like a particular movie or show.  It happens all the time.  Sometimes because of people like yourself that are just more open to checking things out that maybe aren't targeted at you.  Or just because the movie or show just ends up transcending its target demographic for whatever reason.  I just take issue with the specifics mentioned by Orbert, because I don't see the show actually doing or trying to do most of the specific things he is criticizing it for. 

I don't think we disagree that much, but I think I wasn't quite clear about what I meant.

I definitely understand the concept of a target audience, from the perspective of those who are producing and marketing shows and movies. My comment was about individual's "checking out" from something because they decide it's not for them.

To explain a bit more, even from the audience perspective, I get how certain features might make something more interesting than it would otherwise be if it's relatable to the viewer or fits with other interests of theirs. I know people who aren't particularly into superhero media, but have enjoyed certain movies that had a particular style/perspective (examples that come to mind are Black Panther for the race angle, and Logan for its unique apocalyptic style and tone). In this case I could see that applying to people of Pakistani/other south Asian descent living in the west, for example. Or really anyone who isn't into superheroes but is interested to see this because it's a bit different.

The specific that I feel less clear on is when people who do enjoy superhero media get put off because of those stylings or perspectives that they perceive to not be for them. Again not directed at anyone in particular.

[The Letter M]

Saw Episode 2 earlier and I've got to say, it was quite enjoyable! Definitely more entertaining than episode 1, and we got to see more of Kamala's friends and her life within her community. I'm really enjoying the world-building and how much of her life we are getting as it feels very integral to her as a character. It's really been quite different than anything else in the MCU, and not just for the obvious reasons.

I'm glad the DODC stuff is taking its time, as I hope to see them really amp things up in the coming episodes, but I wonder if are getting a true antagonist this season or if she'll just be dodging the DODC for 4 more episodes? Either way, I'm excited to find out!

-Marc.

[lonestar]

Yup, definitely a fun episode. Some minor cringe, to be expected from teen storylines I gather, but based on the closing moment, I think that side of it is going to get dark real quick.

Just can't say enough about how much I adore Vellani though, she is crushing this role, just perfect in every aspect.

[lordxizor]

I guess I just don't really get the whole "I'm not the target audience" mentality (not directed to anyone in particular, but a concept I'm seeing quite a lot about this show). My life isn't represented in this show, but nor is it in many shows and movies I watch. I like stories with a range of different concepts and perspectives.

For me, I use the "I'm not the the target audience" to stand in for "I'm not going to nitpick the teenage themes, especially the clichéd or stereotyped ones, because those situations and feelings aren't really meant to resonate with me, a middle aged white guy."

[hefdaddy42]

Another good episode.  We are really enjoying this show.

[faizoff]

Apart from that ending of episode 3 where it becomes typical Marvel Boom boom schlock, that was another great episode. I'm guessing it's setting up kinda like Moon knight where they travel to another country to find/resolve this issue with the origins of the power bracelet and its significance.

[lonestar]

Apart from that ending of episode 3 where it becomes typical Marvel Boom boom schlock, that was another great episode. I'm guessing it's setting up kinda like Moon knight where they travel to another country to find/resolve this issue with the origins of the power bracelet and its significance.

Yup, character development is off the charts in this series.


And it wouldn't be Marvel without some boom schlock now, would it?

[ProfessorPeart]

Yep, this show is starting to pay off. We have the story and the baddies mostly defined now.

[Adami]

Was that the ten rings where they found the bracelet at the beginning?

[jingle.boy]

Jingle.son called that out too.

Loving this series a lot more than I was expecting to.

[lonestar]

Jingle.son called that out too.

Loving this series a lot more than I was expecting to.

Seriously...Kamala is just so good.

[jingle.boy]

Jingle.son called that out too.

Loving this series a lot more than I was expecting to.

Seriously...Kamala is just so good.

"she's adorable"

[Zantera]

I haven't really decided yet if I like this or not (only 2 episodes in) but I can relate to the target audience/this isn't made for me in certain parts like the start of episode 2 when she walks down the corridor at school with <insert song here> playing and she's acting all goofy with the people there. I felt cringe but I know other people probably didn't. For me the audience target discussion usually more comes into play with certain parts where I feel too old for that kind of stuff, it doesn't really happen with her being a female hero or her Pakistani culture.

But yeah so far it's sporadically enjoyable I'd say.

[ariich]

I haven't really decided yet if I like this or not (only 2 episodes in) but I can relate to the target audience/this isn't made for me in certain parts like the start of episode 2 when she walks down the corridor at school with <insert song here> playing and she's acting all goofy with the people there. I felt cringe but I know other people probably didn't. For me the audience target discussion usually more comes into play with certain parts where I feel too old for that kind of stuff, it doesn't really happen with her being a female hero or her Pakistani culture.

For sure, but you get that with anything. There have been several moments so far that really show the parents' perspective, which parents will relate to and teens won't.

[The Letter M]

I realized the other night that they played Bon Jovi - "We're halfway there" - and the series/season is halfway done. Just 3 more episodes left!

-Marc.

[faizoff]

Brown Jovi is one of the funniest and best cover band names.

[lonestar]

Brown Jovi is one of the funniest and best cover band names.

Glorious.

[hefdaddy42]

Was that the ten rings where they found the bracelet at the beginning?

Yes it was!

Brown Jovi is one of the funniest and best cover band names.

Indeed   

[lonestar]

Really kicked things up a notch on this one...outstanding episode. Absolutely amazes me that the action sequence through the streets of Pakistan and the Obi-Wan chase scene through the forest came from the same parent company.

[faizoff]

Honestly, even though the action was great in this setting, (reminded me a bit of Extraction action scenes) I loved the exploration of the background and the interaction with the cousins and family a lot more. I kinda wished Marvel would try and not do a lot of action for the sake of action but it's a given at this point.

[Adami]

Honestly, even though the action was great in this setting, (reminded me a bit of Extraction action scenes) I loved the exploration of the background and the interaction with the cousins and family a lot more. I kinda wished Marvel would try and not do a lot of action for the sake of action but it's a given at this point.

100%

The action is fine thus far, but this show has so much damn charm and grace that it really doesn’t need it.

[hefdaddy42]

Agreed.  Great episode, and the non-action parts were the best parts.

[jingle.boy]

Absolutely amazes me that the action sequence through the streets of Pakistan and the Obi-Wan chase scene through the forest came from the same parent company.

Right?  Actual conversation at that moment:

Me: "wanna bet this will be a legit chase scene?"
jingle.son: "What, better than the mos espa scooter gang?"

Agreed.  Great episode, and the non-action parts were the best parts.

This is also right.

[The Letter M]

Episode 5 was pretty good. I felt it was a bit slow at first, but not unenjoyable. It definitely falls in line with other penultimate episodes of Disney+ MCU shows like WandaVision episode 8, Loki episode 5, and most recently Moon Knight episode 5 - heavy on the flashbacks/backstory, very revealing stuff, and a way forward for our protagonist to finally become who they're meant to be.


SPOILER:
I've seen a lot of folks on Twitter say that what happened to the Djinn when they touched the Veil was VERY similar to Terrigenesis, the process that gives Inhumans their power, and since Kamran's mom somehow sent him powers, it's possible that the Clandestines could be a form of Inhumans after all. Guess we will wait and see!

-Marc.

[lonestar]

Absolutely loved that episode. I really wish Marvel would bring a bit more of this vibe into the movies, and pump the brakes on the action and slapstick humor.

Very, very curious to see how this ends, since it seems other than Kamran, all the supposed baddies are gone. And I wonder if they'll tie Carol into this somehow, or if they're keeping her strictly to the film.

[faizoff]

Absolutely loved that episode. I really wish Marvel would bring a bit more of this vibe into the movies, and pump the brakes on the action and slapstick humor.

Very, very curious to see how this ends, since it seems other than Kamran, all the supposed baddies are gone. And I wonder if they'll tie Carol into this somehow, or if they're keeping her strictly to the film.

Yeah me too! I loved that the action was minimal and concentrated more on the backstory and buildup to the finale.

It definitely falls in line with other penultimate episodes of Disney+ MCU shows like WandaVision episode 8, Loki episode 5, and most recently Moon Knight episode 5 - heavy on the flashbacks/backstory, very revealing stuff, and a way forward for our protagonist to finally become who they're meant to be.


-Marc.

You're absolutely right that it follows pretty much the same pattern as many other MCU shows did. Hopefully the finale does the series justice.

[jingle.boy]

Marc…. Jingle.son has been pumping this theory on me since before the show even aired.

As for the episode, thought it was the least enjoyable so far. It could’ve been told in 5 minutes. Kamala was the source of the stars; Kamaran now has powers. I didn’t think there was any point to the backstory of Aisha (sp??).

[bosk1]

I love a lot of things about this show.  But I keep finding the overall writing problematic and poorly done at times.  Kamala and her family are written pretty brilliantly.  But the Clandestine, for example, are poorly written and I still don't really understand their motivation.  Yes, they want to get home.  But...so what?  Kamala was initially on board with helping them.  She began to hesitate a bit when Bruno told her it could be dangerous, but they didn't know that she had become hesitant and had no reason to suspect she wouldn't do it.  So...they fly off the handle and wreck the wedding because...why?  I think that what they revealed about Aisha was supposed to make the connection that they had already once been "betrayed" by one of their own, so they were unduly suspicious.  But it didn't really accomplish that.  Instead, it just left me feeling like they tried to accomplish that and failed.  That's just one example of a few times I have been watching this show and felt like things didn't make sense.

Anyhow, that aside, this is a fun show.  There is so much about it that I do like, especially with the look and aesthetic of it, and the dynamics between Kamala and her friends, and between Kamala and her family. 

[bosk1]

As for the episode, thought it was the least enjoyable so far. It could’ve been told in 5 minutes. Kamala was the source of the stars; Kamaran now has powers. I didn’t think there was any point to the backstory of Aisha (sp??).

I hear you, but I disagree for this reason:  It has been bugging me that we didn't really understand why that whole series of events happened in the first place.  We just know that "everyone has a Partition story" and that it was not a good time.  But we didn't know why--especially as westerners who generally don't know much about that history.  I had been speculating that people were maybe trying to get out because of some persecution of Muslims or something, but didn't know.  They not only showed and explained it, but made it personal, and I took a lot from that.  Now I know why the Partition was such a huge crisis because they showed us a personal slice of that, and they showed how it impacted our specific characters.

[ZirconBlue]

Kamala was initially on board with helping them.  She began to hesitate a bit when Bruno told her it could be dangerous, but they didn't know that she had become hesitant

Yes, they did, because Najma read Kamala's texts to Kamran.

[ZirconBlue]

Absolutely loved that episode. I really wish Marvel would bring a bit more of this vibe into the movies, and pump the brakes on the action and slapstick humor.

Meanwhile, I've seen Facebook comments about how the show sucks and "It's 40 minutes of talking and only 5 minutes of action!"

[faizoff]

I think MCU villains in general don't seem to be that well written. They start with intriguing mystery but then just fall into the generic trap of being bad for the sake of being bad.