Eric Church cancels concert to watch basketball - thoughts?

[Ben_Jamin]

I am not a fan of Eric Church, but I’ll put it this way.
2019, I was meant to see Metallica and KISS on tour in Australia. James Hetfield went into rehab two weeks before the show. I was seething, but fair enough if he needed help. One of the KISS crew got really sick, and we ended up losing the whole tour over that too. Not as big of a fan, so not as big of a blow, but still.
2020 - Iron Maiden and Dream Theater we’re booked and COVIDed out. Those ones hurt! Maiden playing a setlist lined with some of my favourite rarities, and Scenes From A Memory just gone!

All of these cases were fair enough. But I was still hurting from these cancellations.

In any of these cases, if I’d have had tickets to an artist and they cancelled to watch the basketball, I would be apoplectic. For everyone that had tickets to this show, it could be their first time taking this gamble to see a show since the pandemic began, and their decision was judged to be trivial compared to a basketball game? I’d be livid. Eric, you’re a massive blowhard who clearly doesn’t deserve the fame.

I honestly feel it's all dependent on a what obligations a person prioritizes. Us, being fans of music, prioritize music and many of us do not treat it as a big enough priority to forgo obligations just to see the music performed. Musicians can also be passionate sports fans, enough for them to forgo big obligations in order to be witness and experience something historical in the legacy of a sports team.

Eric Church just revealed that he prioritizes and has more of a passion for Sports than he has for Music. Honestly, there is nothing wrong with that and I do not care if he prioritizes Sports over playing Live Music.

When you buy a ticket for any event, including music, you are notified that the show can be cancelled at anytime, for any reason. That's the risk you are taking when you buy the ticket. People who prioritize music are the ones going to be upset about the cancelled show, but many won't go to the lengths of considering him a douchebag. Those same fans may be just as into Sports as him and likely would have forgone seeing Eric Church in order to witness the game at home. There may have been people at the show looking at the score while listening to Eric Church play.

There is also the Live Experience. Those moments where you just had to be there. Watching it on TV does not have the same experience compared to actually being there, in real-time, seeing them hundreds of feet away, witnessing it all unfurl and being there with many other fans as the final seconds come to a close, those moments where everyone is experiencing the last seconds of something historical.

The hysterical part of the Live Experience compared to watching on TV is if the TV broadcast cuts off in those final moments. Those there would then be the only ones to witness such a marvelous event. That experience of a once in a lifetime moment is the reason for people going to great lengths, forgoing other priorities and obligations, to attend and experience that event in reality. The exclusiveness and rareness of such a moment is what draws many people to certain music festivals, such as ProgPower. Ray Alder performing is a world exclusive, meaning this is the only show where all attendees will witness a historical moment in Ray Alders career. Ray Alder is not bigger and more influential than Sports.

Sports is very integral to humans, and it's in every culture on this planet. Humans used to die for sports, both as a spectator and a player, and that is one reason for the many regulations, rules, and safety measures that are integral to Modern Sports.

I understand the reasons for many people being upset, and I do not fault them at all either, and they can protest by not attending any of his shows and being vocal on his social media pages for him to take notice of it, but I doubt many will take that initiative to do it. That is if they are that upset about it. He did offer refunds for everyone who bought a ticket. People do not have to spend a lot of money on a hotel and can choose a cheaper Motel/Hotel, but that goes into an even different issue.

I also understand the reasons for why Eric Church went and chose to ignore an obligation for one of his passions and what he sees as a high priority experience in his life. And this is why I am not calling him an asshole either. I consider it very unfortunate for those who did spend that amount of money to see the show. Like how it's unfortunate for fans of Lauryn Hill, who is infamous for starting her shows late consistently, and choosing to just leave before she comes on stage. 

Here's her response for why she is late...

This is the very reason for me being adamant about us fans being along for the journey into the mind and feelings of the performers, and why no musician has any obligations to the fans to perform. Especially those that are performing solo. Devin Townsend talks all about that journey, and he is one who can actually play off of it and pass it off as comedy. We are actually very fortunate these artists are taking time out of their lives to perform this music for as long as they do. Many love it and won't regret it, but they are also putting other priorities aside just to be able to play the music that music fans consider sacred. That feeling we music fans have for the live music experience is the same feeling that sports fans have for sports, to the point of considering it as sacred.

It's also easier to forgo those musical obligations solo than it is being in a band. Just like how JLB chose to forgo ProgPower for whatever his reason was, while in Dream Theater he has to suck it up when he gets out-voted for decisions that affect his other priorities. Dream Theater is a bigger priority than JLB solo.

[KevShmev]

If you are consistently starting your concerts late, ala Axl Rose or Madonna, you are an inconsiderate jerk.  No two ways about it.  Lauryn Hill can spit out whatever excuse she wants, but it's inconsiderate.  It reminds me of the people who are always late for everything and think it's a cute character flaw.  No, it means you have little consideration for the time of others.

[Stadler]

Street corn is fucking bomb. 

Seconded.

Thirded, though El Barto is right: it's not like pizza where even bad pizza is still okay.  It's got to work, and there are a fair number of variables here.  But done right, it's pretty darn good.  I make a version here at home and I'm quite happy with it.

[Chino]

There's a couple that parks their mini-van in the parking lot of a Hispanic-leaning grocery store by my house. They sell street corn and tamales out of the back of the van for $2 each. I think the corn is good, but I'm not a huge fan (personal tastes). The tamales are freaking freaking ridiculous and I'll usually by 5 at a time.

[Stadler]

I am not a fan of Eric Church, but I’ll put it this way.
2019, I was meant to see Metallica and KISS on tour in Australia. James Hetfield went into rehab two weeks before the show. I was seething, but fair enough if he needed help. One of the KISS crew got really sick, and we ended up losing the whole tour over that too. Not as big of a fan, so not as big of a blow, but still.
2020 - Iron Maiden and Dream Theater we’re booked and COVIDed out. Those ones hurt! Maiden playing a setlist lined with some of my favourite rarities, and Scenes From A Memory just gone!

All of these cases were fair enough. But I was still hurting from these cancellations.

In any of these cases, if I’d have had tickets to an artist and they cancelled to watch the basketball, I would be apoplectic. For everyone that had tickets to this show, it could be their first time taking this gamble to see a show since the pandemic began, and their decision was judged to be trivial compared to a basketball game? I’d be livid. Eric, you’re a massive blowhard who clearly doesn’t deserve the fame.

How do you get to this?   So, I think there's a consensus that this is a dick move - and I agree with that - but he's not the first artist to do something that is a dick move.  Now his entire career is negated?  Are we really only as good as our worst moment?  This guy is a (potential) country music hall of fame artist, and let's not forget that.  I get it, sort of (well, no not really), that country music is an outlier on this prog metal band's board, but the collective ignorance of this group doesn't bear on the magnitude of his career. 

[KevShmev]

How do you get to this?   So, I think there's a consensus that this is a dick move - and I agree with that - but he's not the first artist to do something that is a dick move.  Now his entire career is negated?  Are we really only as good as our worst moment?  This guy is a (potential) country music hall of fame artist, and let's not forget that.  I get it, sort of (well, no not really), that country music is an outlier on this prog metal band's board, but the collective ignorance of this group doesn't bear on the magnitude of his career.

I agree with you that far too often nowadays that people are judged by their worst moment, which does seem unfair, but in this particular case, I think it is a given that most of us know little to nothing about Eric Church, so this story is the first time we are hearing anything about him, and considering the nature of the story, it is normal for the feedback to pretty highly negative, especially considering this forum is loaded with fans of Dream Theater, a band that has almost always treated their fans pretty darn well. 

When I think of artists who treat their fans really well, while I know nothing about Eric Church other than this, this alone would disqualify him from consideration.  I think most musicians in general would never pull a stunt like this, and most of the artists that come to mind first when it comes to treating fans well I am pretty positive would never cancel a concert at basically the last minute to watching a sporting event.

[Lonk]

I am not a fan of Eric Church, but I’ll put it this way.
2019, I was meant to see Metallica and KISS on tour in Australia. James Hetfield went into rehab two weeks before the show. I was seething, but fair enough if he needed help. One of the KISS crew got really sick, and we ended up losing the whole tour over that too. Not as big of a fan, so not as big of a blow, but still.
2020 - Iron Maiden and Dream Theater we’re booked and COVIDed out. Those ones hurt! Maiden playing a setlist lined with some of my favourite rarities, and Scenes From A Memory just gone!

All of these cases were fair enough. But I was still hurting from these cancellations.

In any of these cases, if I’d have had tickets to an artist and they cancelled to watch the basketball, I would be apoplectic. For everyone that had tickets to this show, it could be their first time taking this gamble to see a show since the pandemic began, and their decision was judged to be trivial compared to a basketball game? I’d be livid. Eric, you’re a massive blowhard who clearly doesn’t deserve the fame.

How do you get to this?   So, I think there's a consensus that this is a dick move - and I agree with that - but he's not the first artist to do something that is a dick move.  Now his entire career is negated?  Are we really only as good as our worst moment?  This guy is a (potential) country music hall of fame artist, and let's not forget that.  I get it, sort of (well, no not really), that country music is an outlier on this prog metal band's board, but the collective ignorance of this group doesn't bear on the magnitude of his career.

While I don't agree on negating his career based on this moment, it also goes the other way and we shouldn't negate this moment because of whatever success he had.

[Stadler]

No, I'm cool with that; I don't disagree.  It's all a balance; I think Kev has it sort of right, though, that there are more people who only know him from this and I think that's sort of unfortunate.  He's always branded himself as an outsider and a rebel; much of the music press has labelled him "outlaw country", even though musically that's not quite accurate (though it is lyrically).   He's done this kind of thing (sort of) before; he was thrown off a Rascal Flatts (a more traditional country act*) tour a decade or so ago and many said that would be the end of his career. 



* If they were in the rock world, "Rascal Flatts" would be the Aerosmith's or Alice Cooper's of the world; Eric Church would be the Yngwie Malmsteen's or Guns 'n' Roses of the world.  More or less.

[El Barto]

I am not a fan of Eric Church, but I’ll put it this way.
2019, I was meant to see Metallica and KISS on tour in Australia. James Hetfield went into rehab two weeks before the show. I was seething, but fair enough if he needed help. One of the KISS crew got really sick, and we ended up losing the whole tour over that too. Not as big of a fan, so not as big of a blow, but still.
2020 - Iron Maiden and Dream Theater we’re booked and COVIDed out. Those ones hurt! Maiden playing a setlist lined with some of my favourite rarities, and Scenes From A Memory just gone!

All of these cases were fair enough. But I was still hurting from these cancellations.

In any of these cases, if I’d have had tickets to an artist and they cancelled to watch the basketball, I would be apoplectic. For everyone that had tickets to this show, it could be their first time taking this gamble to see a show since the pandemic began, and their decision was judged to be trivial compared to a basketball game? I’d be livid. Eric, you’re a massive blowhard who clearly doesn’t deserve the fame.

Down under would certainly complicate things. Bands of their stature, well, Maiden, Metallica, and Kiss, at least, would have rescheduled. Getting back to Australialand would have been hard to pull off, though. Metallica came back to Dallas to play a pair of free shows to make up for one where Hetfield couldn't perform. Van Halen did the same thing with spectacularly bad results. Seems to me that's exactly what this Church guy should be doing. Even if he can't bring the entire production, come back and do an acoustic set or something. Hell, have a local radio station sponsor it. There are ways he could have done this without coming off as an entitled prick.

[Deadeye21]

I am not a fan of Eric Church, but I’ll put it this way.
2019, I was meant to see Metallica and KISS on tour in Australia. James Hetfield went into rehab two weeks before the show. I was seething, but fair enough if he needed help. One of the KISS crew got really sick, and we ended up losing the whole tour over that too. Not as big of a fan, so not as big of a blow, but still.
2020 - Iron Maiden and Dream Theater we’re booked and COVIDed out. Those ones hurt! Maiden playing a setlist lined with some of my favourite rarities, and Scenes From A Memory just gone!

All of these cases were fair enough. But I was still hurting from these cancellations.

In any of these cases, if I’d have had tickets to an artist and they cancelled to watch the basketball, I would be apoplectic. For everyone that had tickets to this show, it could be their first time taking this gamble to see a show since the pandemic began, and their decision was judged to be trivial compared to a basketball game? I’d be livid. Eric, you’re a massive blowhard who clearly doesn’t deserve the fame.

How do you get to this?   So, I think there's a consensus that this is a dick move - and I agree with that - but he's not the first artist to do something that is a dick move.  Now his entire career is negated?  Are we really only as good as our worst moment?  This guy is a (potential) country music hall of fame artist, and let's not forget that.  I get it, sort of (well, no not really), that country music is an outlier on this prog metal band's board, but the collective ignorance of this group doesn't bear on the magnitude of his career.

This is how. You need fans to achieve the level of fame he has. He clearly just spat in the face of that and made a selfish decision that screams “you guys aren’t important to me”. If you’re going to just turn on a dime for something like that, then you don’t deserve the fame that the people you’re letting down have given you. I think Axl Rose in the 90s, especially on the Illusions tour, also was undeserving of much of the fame he held at that stage.

Disrespect your fans, the ones who got you there, and I don’t believe you deserve fame. That’s my opinion, many won’t agree, but that’s what I believe.

[Stadler]

I feel like water finds it's own level.  If the rest of the fan base doesn't give a shit either way - and at least with Axl, I submit the fan base doesn't give a shit either way - then the fame IS deserving, isn't it?  As Bon Jovi says, "100,000,000 fans can't be wrong".  We get what we get.  Guns have done, what, four stadium tours now without a NOTE of new music*, so someone somewhere doesn't give two craps about Axl's antics.  I can decide for myself if I want to participate in that, but to some degree, over time, whatever the response is kind of becomes the right one.




* Not technically; I get there was an old unreleased song out as well as a new-ish song or an older song redone or some shit.

[cramx3]

Well, I'm sure if say he has 100,000,000 fans, like what, 1% of those even know about what happened?  It really only affects those who were going to the show and in the grand scheme of things, that's a very small amount of fans.  Sure maybe it rubs some other fans the wrong way, but I doubt this makes a huge dent.  People will forget soon enough anyway. 

I keep trying to think of how this would impact me.  It's very easy to say "im no longer a fan" if this somehow ended up costing me some money in terms of a non refundable hotel or plane ticket, but would I drop off from being a fan if I was a big enough fan to travel to see them?  I'm not so sure.  It would definitely sour me, but how much and for how long?

[vtgrad]

Just checking the story out a bit further... it seems all fans will be refunded (Bart's point about the promoters and the insurance co is quite valid) and there is currently no make-up date in the works.  Also seems like some in the country music community are peeved too.

Removing the type of music from the equation, and focusing solely on how this dude makes money (recording & touring musician), I honestly can't believe that he did it.  Talk about sending the wrong signal to the people that look up to you... you've just prioritized a basketball game over your income stream and given the finger to the people that provide that income stream.  "This is the most selfish thing I've every asked the choir to do" (I guess he calls his fans the choir)... it's great that he understands that he's selfish, but at least be selfish over something that isn't as trivial as a basketball game.  I say that as a Tar-heel fan myself.

[Chino]

Well, I'm sure if say he has 100,000,000 fans, like what, 1% of those even know about what happened? It really only affects those who were going to the show and in the grand scheme of things, that's a very small amount of fans.  Sure maybe it rubs some other fans the wrong way, but I doubt this makes a huge dent.  People will forget soon enough anyway. 

I keep trying to think of how this would impact me.  It's very easy to say "im no longer a fan" if this somehow ended up costing me some money in terms of a non refundable hotel or plane ticket, but would I drop off from being a fan if I was a big enough fan to travel to see them?  I'm not so sure.  It would definitely sour me, but how much and for how long?

I haven't seen this storied mentioned once outside of this forum. I would have never heard about it otherwise. I visit plenty of websites with entertainment sections and what have you and I haven't seen a peep about this.

[Ben_Jamin]

I am not a fan of Eric Church, but I’ll put it this way.
2019, I was meant to see Metallica and KISS on tour in Australia. James Hetfield went into rehab two weeks before the show. I was seething, but fair enough if he needed help. One of the KISS crew got really sick, and we ended up losing the whole tour over that too. Not as big of a fan, so not as big of a blow, but still.
2020 - Iron Maiden and Dream Theater we’re booked and COVIDed out. Those ones hurt! Maiden playing a setlist lined with some of my favourite rarities, and Scenes From A Memory just gone!

All of these cases were fair enough. But I was still hurting from these cancellations.

In any of these cases, if I’d have had tickets to an artist and they cancelled to watch the basketball, I would be apoplectic. For everyone that had tickets to this show, it could be their first time taking this gamble to see a show since the pandemic began, and their decision was judged to be trivial compared to a basketball game? I’d be livid. Eric, you’re a massive blowhard who clearly doesn’t deserve the fame.

How do you get to this?   So, I think there's a consensus that this is a dick move - and I agree with that - but he's not the first artist to do something that is a dick move.  Now his entire career is negated?  Are we really only as good as our worst moment?  This guy is a (potential) country music hall of fame artist, and let's not forget that.  I get it, sort of (well, no not really), that country music is an outlier on this prog metal band's board, but the collective ignorance of this group doesn't bear on the magnitude of his career.

This is how. You need fans to achieve the level of fame he has. He clearly just spat in the face of that and made a selfish decision that screams “you guys aren’t important to me”. If you’re going to just turn on a dime for something like that, then you don’t deserve the fame that the people you’re letting down have given you. I think Axl Rose in the 90s, especially on the Illusions tour, also was undeserving of much of the fame he held at that stage.

Disrespect your fans, the ones who got you there, and I don’t believe you deserve fame. That’s my opinion, many won’t agree, but that’s what I believe.

But yet, people still buy tickets and people will still go to the shows. Like Lauryn Hill also said, No one is forcing you with a gun to your head to buy tickets to the shows.

If anyone has a problem with it then don't go and don't support the artists anymore. In the end though, it doesn't matter because people will still attend the shows.

What I feel he could've done was offer them a make-up date, where the ticket holders could use to gain entry.

But also, most of these high profile musicians do not book or tour as often as many bands do. Their money maker is doing other things, music and touring is not. They make their money based off that Fame, not their music.

Yet, when they do tour, they can pack stadiums and big venues because that's how fame works. Most people don't care at all about the artists and don't even know or care, so they will still go.

I agree though that what he did is controversial, but I will not label him an asshat because he did this. Fans are not entitled to anything and it's why I also say MP spoiled Dream Theater fans with a lot of things. We should not expect other musicians to go to the lengths MP did just for the fans, and that resulted in him writing lyrics about ungrateful fans.

[Ben_Jamin]

Just checking the story out a bit further... it seems all fans will be refunded (Bart's point about the promoters and the insurance co is quite valid) and there is currently no make-up date in the works.  Also seems like some in the country music community are peeved too.

Removing the type of music from the equation, and focusing solely on how this dude makes money (recording & touring musician), I honestly can't believe that he did it.  Talk about sending the wrong signal to the people that look up to you... you've just prioritized a basketball game over your income stream and given the finger to the people that provide that income stream.  "This is the most selfish thing I've every asked the choir to do" (I guess he calls his fans the choir)... it's great that he understands that he's selfish, but at least be selfish over something that isn't as trivial as a basketball game.  I say that as a Tar-heel fan myself.

I don't think you understand how serious sports is.

In my class on looking at history through Modern Sports, we read an article about a journalist who was a fan of a rival college football team and his experiences having to basically, walk in enemy territory with noticeable flashing lights, like a fish in a barrel. People surrounded his RV, and he stayed there, until the writer of the article and the journalist found it safer to relocate and move away.

The value humans place in Sports goes way, way, way, deeper in history than many people realize.

That's why it does not surprise me or make me upset that someone chose Sports over Music. People do take it seriously to the point you could consider Sports to be a religion.

[Chino]

I am not a fan of Eric Church, but I’ll put it this way.
2019, I was meant to see Metallica and KISS on tour in Australia. James Hetfield went into rehab two weeks before the show. I was seething, but fair enough if he needed help. One of the KISS crew got really sick, and we ended up losing the whole tour over that too. Not as big of a fan, so not as big of a blow, but still.
2020 - Iron Maiden and Dream Theater we’re booked and COVIDed out. Those ones hurt! Maiden playing a setlist lined with some of my favourite rarities, and Scenes From A Memory just gone!

All of these cases were fair enough. But I was still hurting from these cancellations.

In any of these cases, if I’d have had tickets to an artist and they cancelled to watch the basketball, I would be apoplectic. For everyone that had tickets to this show, it could be their first time taking this gamble to see a show since the pandemic began, and their decision was judged to be trivial compared to a basketball game? I’d be livid. Eric, you’re a massive blowhard who clearly doesn’t deserve the fame.

How do you get to this?   So, I think there's a consensus that this is a dick move - and I agree with that - but he's not the first artist to do something that is a dick move.  Now his entire career is negated?  Are we really only as good as our worst moment?  This guy is a (potential) country music hall of fame artist, and let's not forget that.  I get it, sort of (well, no not really), that country music is an outlier on this prog metal band's board, but the collective ignorance of this group doesn't bear on the magnitude of his career.

This is how. You need fans to achieve the level of fame he has. He clearly just spat in the face of that and made a selfish decision that screams “you guys aren’t important to me”. If you’re going to just turn on a dime for something like that, then you don’t deserve the fame that the people you’re letting down have given you. I think Axl Rose in the 90s, especially on the Illusions tour, also was undeserving of much of the fame he held at that stage.

Disrespect your fans, the ones who got you there, and I don’t believe you deserve fame. That’s my opinion, many won’t agree, but that’s what I believe.

But yet, people still buy tickets and people will still go to the shows. Like Lauryn Hill also said, No one is forcing you with a gun to your head to buy tickets to the shows.

If anyone has a problem with it then don't go and don't support the artists anymore. In the end though, it doesn't matter because people will still attend the shows.

What I feel he could've done was offer them a make-up date, where the ticket holders could use to gain entry.

But also, most of these high profile musicians do not book or tour as often as many bands do. Their money maker is doing other things, music and touring is not. They make their money based off that Fame, not their music.

Yet, when they do tour, they can pack stadiums and big venues because that's how fame works. Most people don't care at all about the artists and don't even know or care, so they will still go.

There's no way guys like Toby Keith are selling out 70K seat stadiums, multiple times over at $100+ a seat average, and not making out like bandits. I've read that his tours generate upwards of a quarter BILLION dollars by the time the wrap up.. That's strictly tickets and merch sales. Even after everyone in the chain gets their cut, he's swimming in cash. I don't think Eric Church is anywhere near that level, but still.

Touring is too much of a pain in the ass and requires commitment from too many people for it to not be profitable.

[cramx3]

Touring is where musicians make their money, including the big ones.

[Stadler]

Look, I'm prone to seeing both sides of things, and I get that.  And I'm not waffling on my agreement that it is a selfish thing to do, and I wouldn't like it if I had a ticket.   But... and I'm spitballing here...   if Neil Peart said "hey, we have a show in Cleveland on Saturday, but I have a chance to participate in a panel on "Ayn Rand and USA Interstate Motorcycle Travel: A Perspective" and so we have elected to cancel this one show".   Or Neal Morse says "yeah, we have a concert on Saturday, but the Pope has scheduled an appearance in Charlotte, and I've been given an audience with him; it's a dream come true."    Or Mike Portnoy says "Paul McCartney has invited me to step in for Abe Laboriel, Jr. and play his show in Chicago; I hope all the MP Warriors can understand, but this is a BIG DEAL!"

Would Neil, Neal, and Mike still be "assholes"? 

[Chino]

Is Neal performing with the Pope or just sitting in the audience?

[KevShmev]

I feel like water finds it's own level.  If the rest of the fan base doesn't give a shit either way - and at least with Axl, I submit the fan base doesn't give a shit either way - then the fame IS deserving, isn't it?  As Bon Jovi says, "100,000,000 fans can't be wrong".  We get what we get.  Guns have done, what, four stadium tours now without a NOTE of new music*, so someone somewhere doesn't give two craps about Axl's antics.  I can decide for myself if I want to participate in that, but to some degree, over time, whatever the response is kind of becomes the right one.

Sadly, this is correct.  Fans in general love music enough that most can usually get over being disrespected by asshats like Rose, Church and Madonna.  History has shown this to be the case, and I suspect Church is probably sitting back and laughing about how dumb his fans are, as they will keep throwing money at him and saying, "thank you, sir, may I have another," again the next time he gives them the middle finger.  God bless America. 

[Stadler]

I don't know that it has to be one extreme or the other; he doesn't have to be laughing. He can be "wow, I dodged a bullet there", or something along those lines.  Maybe he is laughing, I don't know.  I do know, though, that I've realized as I get older there's a lot more just plain apathy in the world than these extreme reactions. We just see the extreme reactions because they attract eyeballs.

[Ben_Jamin]

I feel like water finds it's own level.  If the rest of the fan base doesn't give a shit either way - and at least with Axl, I submit the fan base doesn't give a shit either way - then the fame IS deserving, isn't it?  As Bon Jovi says, "100,000,000 fans can't be wrong".  We get what we get.  Guns have done, what, four stadium tours now without a NOTE of new music*, so someone somewhere doesn't give two craps about Axl's antics.  I can decide for myself if I want to participate in that, but to some degree, over time, whatever the response is kind of becomes the right one.

Sadly, this is correct.  Fans in general love music enough that most can usually get over being disrespected by asshats like Rose, Church and Madonna.  History has shown this to be the case, and I suspect Church is probably sitting back and laughing about how dumb his fans are, as they will keep throwing money at him and saying, "thank you, sir, may I have another," again the next time he gives them the middle finger.  God bless America. 

Like how Devin Townsend got everyone in his audience to tap their heads and beep...

And also, i do not read minds, so I am not assuming nor getting myself worked up over my own made up assumptions of what another person thinks. I personally do not care. And if anyone does take it that personally then they will do things like not buying his merch, going to shows or that matter.

It's even funnier to me that people who have not heard one bit of him or his music are quick to judge based on one life decision he chose to make.

[emtee]

Honoring your commitments is where I fall in this discussion. Plain and simple. It's a matter of integrity and also this adage applies, one of my favorites: "Be the change you wish to see in the world."

How we conduct ourselves impacts many people whether or not we realize it. His integrity and honor both take a hit and it's like an age spot on the skin - it will never fade.

[Stadler]

There's this (Jason Aldean was performing in Vegas at the outdoor venue when the mass shooting occurred a couple years ago):
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/jason-aldean-on-eric-church-concert-drama-hold-up-your-end-of-the-deal/ar-AAVLssq?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=d93ebc11209b4c10b68cec3cc561bf7c

And this:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-01/duke-fans-seen-taking-private-jets-to-new-orleans-for-coach-k-s-final-four-game

[Ben_Jamin]

There's this (Jason Aldean was performing in Vegas at the outdoor venue when the mass shooting occurred a couple years ago):
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/jason-aldean-on-eric-church-concert-drama-hold-up-your-end-of-the-deal/ar-AAVLssq?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=d93ebc11209b4c10b68cec3cc561bf7c

And this:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-01/duke-fans-seen-taking-private-jets-to-new-orleans-for-coach-k-s-final-four-game

Precisely. The passion for Sports is as strong as peoples passion for religion. And that can take precedence over other obligations. In the case of Eric Church, for him, the passion for Sports is more important to him than his passion for playing music.

Honoring your commitments is where I fall in this discussion. Plain and simple. It's a matter of integrity and also this adage applies, one of my favorites: "Be the change you wish to see in the world."

How we conduct ourselves impacts many people whether or not we realize it. His integrity and honor both take a hit and it's like an age spot on the skin - it will never fade.

Every decision has an outcome. Every decision we make effects someone in some way. Even our words that we say to random strangers out in public affects them in some way. When someone is bring rude, or an asshole in public, it could be for many reasons, such as having a rough patch in life or just overall not having a great life in general. The thing is we don't know. And being rude back can escalate their rudeness and can even break a person making them decide to do worse things with worse outcomes. 

Basically, what he did was sacrifice that integrity and commitment, in order to watch a sports game he sees as more important to his life.

Which is the same as many other obligations we choose to neglect over another passion we so desire.

Fame is very fascinating as well, and as George Carlin said, it's a big club and you're not in it. And this is what is considered the Elite high class of our Western Society. Where humans praise and even worship those with fame. It's the same as a dictator being praised for his leadership enough to get the people to erect a statue.

This should be the big opportunity for people to voice their anger over him being inconsiderate. But the question is will they? And unless they do, he won't do anything about it. He could assume himself, his fans will understand and are not as upset about it as he thinks, based off their actions not to decide to cause an uproar over their cancelled show.

[King Postwhore]

Problem is, when you are a musician,  putting your private passions over the passions of your fan base is a big mistake for your career.

You can't think like that when you have commitments.

[Lethean]

Look, I'm prone to seeing both sides of things, and I get that.  And I'm not waffling on my agreement that it is a selfish thing to do, and I wouldn't like it if I had a ticket.   But... and I'm spitballing here...   if Neil Peart said "hey, we have a show in Cleveland on Saturday, but I have a chance to participate in a panel on "Ayn Rand and USA Interstate Motorcycle Travel: A Perspective" and so we have elected to cancel this one show".   Or Neal Morse says "yeah, we have a concert on Saturday, but the Pope has scheduled an appearance in Charlotte, and I've been given an audience with him; it's a dream come true."    Or Mike Portnoy says "Paul McCartney has invited me to step in for Abe Laboriel, Jr. and play his show in Chicago; I hope all the MP Warriors can understand, but this is a BIG DEAL!"

Would Neil, Neal, and Mike still be "assholes"?

I think they would.  I'm a huge fan of Neil, but would find his excuse pretty difficult to take.  Someone in his position could easily organize another panel rather than screwing over his fans.  Neal and Mike's fall more into the "once in a lifetime" category like Eric Church's.  But I think even if it is, it's not cool to do that to your fans.  Maybe Eric Church (or Neil, Neal, or Mike) could offer the fans something in return.  A makeup show for starters, but maybe either reimbursing those who could provide proof of travel expenses or offering them something like a free good seat to the next show of their choice or something.  And yeah it would be a lot of money, but if this game is so important to Eric Church, then a little sacrifice to achieve it shouldn't be out of the question.

I'm not saying people should burn his records and hate him for all time, but I won't blame those who do.

[vtgrad]

Just checking the story out a bit further... it seems all fans will be refunded (Bart's point about the promoters and the insurance co is quite valid) and there is currently no make-up date in the works.  Also seems like some in the country music community are peeved too.

Removing the type of music from the equation, and focusing solely on how this dude makes money (recording & touring musician), I honestly can't believe that he did it.  Talk about sending the wrong signal to the people that look up to you... you've just prioritized a basketball game over your income stream and given the finger to the people that provide that income stream.  "This is the most selfish thing I've every asked the choir to do" (I guess he calls his fans the choir)... it's great that he understands that he's selfish, but at least be selfish over something that isn't as trivial as a basketball game.  I say that as a Tar-heel fan myself.

I don't think you understand how serious sports is.

In my class on looking at history through Modern Sports, we read an article about a journalist who was a fan of a rival college football team and his experiences having to basically, walk in enemy territory with noticeable flashing lights, like a fish in a barrel. People surrounded his RV, and he stayed there, until the writer of the article and the journalist found it safer to relocate and move away.

The value humans place in Sports goes way, way, way, deeper in history than many people realize.

That's why it does not surprise me or make me upset that someone chose Sports over Music. People do take it seriously to the point you could consider Sports to be a religion.

The bold above is part of what is amiss in our society right now (in my opinion of course).  Too much emphasis on trivial pursuits... sports, like it or not, is a trivial pursuit when compared with the other issues of adult life.  I feel I can say that with a bit of experience having been a mid-level high-school athlete, AAU athlete in high school and college, and single digit handicap amateur with a bit of amateur tourney experience (for a while anyway; handicap has gone up a bit since those days).  Competition is definitely a teacher of it's own sort and is much required for the fast-paced real-world environment, but watching a sporting event is quite different from participating in a sporting event.  Watching a sporting event in detriment to an activity that provides income and supports your family/lifestyle is juvenile quite frankly.

Perhaps we need a bit less tribalism and a bit more independent thought in society.  I don't see this discussion as a comparison of sports and music, I see it as a comparison of commitment and selfishness.

[King Postwhore]

I don't think like that at all.  Watching sports is a way to get away from all that ales you in life.

Playing it taught me teamwork. 

You're looking at it from the other side. Without sports, we as a society would be extremely obese. 

[ErHaO]

It is super common for people to build their weekend around an event like this. We have booked many hotel weekends around a concert. If an artist has to cancel it is what it is, but so short in advance for watching a sports game is a dick move towards your fans in my opinion. And a dick move towards all the employees involved in big events that likely miss a payday.

[Ben_Jamin]

Problem is, when you are a musician,  putting your private passions over the passions of your fan base is a big mistake for your career.

You can't think like that when you have commitments.

You sacrifice your own private desires in order to pursue the passion of playing live music. What happens when that passion you desire is not Music anymore. There are many musicians who have quit music because that passion for playing music wasn't their desire. There have been musicians who have decided to leave the tour because of that.

Most bands just can't afford to cancel a show. Their livelihood is dependent upon those live shows and touring. The big acts who are very famous, their livelihoods are not dependent on live shows or touring. Their lives and income gain due to their status as celebrity, doing all these events such as talk shows, and other dealings they get from sponsorships.


This one just came out as well...
https://news.yahoo.com/dukes-paolo-banchero-clueless-eric-185148454.html

Duke men's basketball forward Paolo Banchero made an admission Friday during a Final Four press conference.

Banchero isn't familiar with the country music star.

"Eric Church, I don't know who that is," Banchero said. "But shoutout to him, though, coming. Even though he's supporting the other team, shoutout to him coming to watch. His fans, I'm sure he'll have another show."

and then there's this very important piece of information...

Church is a North Carolina native and Tar Heels fan.

Let me tell you, Humans take sports very, very seriously. The big draw of a college team is it represents the town, the city, and even the state. It brings in profits for the state and even can have effects within the political realm based off of that Sports fandom. Soccer is another example of how much passion people have for Sports. Our city voted for a Soccer stadium to be built for our beloved Soccer team, yet the voters decided and said no. There was many reasons as to why, which is the effect the Stadium would have on the surrounding community. Now, those fans and the city, fear the team may choose to move to another city/state, where they can have their fans pack the stadiums. Stadia is a big integral part of Modern Sports.

Basketball is the next latest, recent, Sports humans have created and are playing. That is just as big as Football, which is how Baseball was once desired.

Just checking the story out a bit further... it seems all fans will be refunded (Bart's point about the promoters and the insurance co is quite valid) and there is currently no make-up date in the works.  Also seems like some in the country music community are peeved too.

Removing the type of music from the equation, and focusing solely on how this dude makes money (recording & touring musician), I honestly can't believe that he did it.  Talk about sending the wrong signal to the people that look up to you... you've just prioritized a basketball game over your income stream and given the finger to the people that provide that income stream.  "This is the most selfish thing I've every asked the choir to do" (I guess he calls his fans the choir)... it's great that he understands that he's selfish, but at least be selfish over something that isn't as trivial as a basketball game.  I say that as a Tar-heel fan myself.

I don't think you understand how serious sports is.

In my class on looking at history through Modern Sports, we read an article about a journalist who was a fan of a rival college football team and his experiences having to basically, walk in enemy territory with noticeable flashing lights, like a fish in a barrel. People surrounded his RV, and he stayed there, until the writer of the article and the journalist found it safer to relocate and move away.

The value humans place in Sports goes way, way, way, deeper in history than many people realize.

That's why it does not surprise me or make me upset that someone chose Sports over Music. People do take it seriously to the point you could consider Sports to be a religion.

The bold above is part of what is amiss in our society right now (in my opinion of course).  Too much emphasis on trivial pursuits... sports, like it or not, is a trivial pursuit when compared with the other issues of adult life.  I feel I can say that with a bit of experience having been a mid-level high-school athlete, AAU athlete in high school and college, and single digit handicap amateur with a bit of amateur tourney experience (for a while anyway; handicap has gone up a bit since those days).  Competition is definitely a teacher of it's own sort and is much required for the fast-paced real-world environment, but watching a sporting event is quite different from participating in a sporting event.  Watching a sporting event in detriment to an activity that provides income and supports your family/lifestyle is juvenile quite frankly.

Perhaps we need a bit less tribalism and a bit more independent thought in society.  I don't see this discussion as a comparison of sports and music, I see it as a comparison of commitment and selfishness.

Sports are not just stupid games being played. There's more to Sports than most understand. This is what I learned in a course in college about learning about History through "Modern Sports". Which we had to look at what is sports, and the history of sports throughout time. My college professor was fascinated because I brought in another cultural perspective on the Sports Native Americans used to play and still do play.

The desire and passion for Sports is relative to the commitment and selfishness claimed. I for one do not see it as selfish because each person has their own passions and desires. And as I said, fans are not entitled to receiving anything from the artist in terms of obligations. It's the same with the Sports fans if the team decides not to play an important game because the team all likes a certain music artist, is playing all their favorite songs, and is the only time they will get to witness as the musician is retiring the album and songs because it won't be possible for them to bring the songs justice anymore (such as having to down-tune, alter melodies, all the crap others were demanding JLB do). Would it be Selfish of fans to be that demanding on an artist for not giving them what they wanted?

Fandom, is it's own entity in itself and is one that can be both beneficial and detrimental to whatever the fandom is addressing.

It is super common for people to build their weekend around an event like this. We have booked many hotel weekends around a concert. If an artist has to cancel it is what it is, but so short in advance for watching a sports game is a dick move towards your fans in my opinion. And a dick move towards all the employees involved in big events that likely miss a payday.

That's why the organizer for ProgPower was pissed off at JLB for canceling his obligation. Is JLB an asshole for doing that? Just look at the ProgPower thread for that discussion.

[King Postwhore]

Ben, if his passion isn't music, then touring might not be his thing.  Here is my story of priorities.

 I bought tickets for Dream Theater for the newest tour and they postponed the show. My brother and sister in law bought tickets for or a Rush tribute band. Dream Theater then change the date to the same day as the Rush tribute band show.

What I wanted to see was Dream Theater. While Rush is my favorite band, this was a Tribute Band but because my brother and sister-in-law bought these tickets for our anniversary, you have to put family family 1st and I got credited for my Dream Theater tickets.

It's only the 2nd time I've missed a tour since Images and Words.

[Ben_Jamin]

Competition is definitely a teacher of it's own sort and is much required for the fast-paced real-world environment, but watching a sporting event is quite different from participating in a sporting event. 

This is another point that caught my interest. Competition is what I see as a big problem in the reality of western society. Not everything in life is a competition, nor should it even be a competition. Such as competing to have the most beautiful wife, hence the term Trophy Wife, which I feel leads to men having a thought and desire to have the most beautiful wife.

I don't care about there being a best, I honestly could not tell you my favorite band, but from my actions and what I do, you could say it's Dream Theater. I go to the lengths to go on these forums, which is the best forum I have ever been on relating to a band, and do not go to the lengths for any other band. My fandom for Dream Theater is high. I used to go meet the bands by waiting for them after the show, and many other things fans will do just to meet their celebrities.

Now, I actually have no desire to do that anymore, and for me, I feel it stems from understanding they are humans as well and are doing all they can physically and mentally, sacrificing many other desires and passions, just to play for 2-3 hours a night. I highly respect that. And if they want to cancel a show to pursue other interests, I am fine with that. Let them be a human and experience whatever they feel and want to experience.

His payback and make up for doing that, I would expect some hidden gems, songs he hasn't played at all, or something special like getting that show recorded and released. I actually think he should've just had a postponement and rescheduled the show later on sometime. But as long as he makes up for that cancellation somehow, if not, then I will consider him an asshole. If you fall out of an obligation, the least you can do is make up for it, as the people went to great lengths to organize or even put that obligation into motion.

Ben, if his passion isn't music, then touring might not be his thing.  Here is my story of priorities.

 I bought tickets for Dream Theater for the newest tour and they postponed the show. My brother and sister in law bought tickets for or a Rush tribute band. Dream Theater then change the date to the same day as the Rush tribute band show.

What I wanted to see was Dream Theater. While Rush is my favorite band, this was a Tribute Band but because my brother and sister-in-law bought these tickets for our anniversary, you have to put family family 1st and I got credited for my Dream Theater tickets.

It's only the 2nd time I've missed a tour since Images and Words.

Musicians are prioritizing Music over those family first obligations, such as growing up with and raising your child. Musicians miss out on a lot of those experiences by sacrificing that obligation in order to pursue their desire and passion for music. Yet, people expect them to consistently tour, year after year, gather as a band to write music, on a consistent basis. There are not many musicians who are capable of handling that obligation music requires. It's a lot easier to do solo.

[King Postwhore]

Think of it this way.  You know you have a big day at work, presenting a new proposal in front of your bosses but you call out to watch a sporting event.

Worst decision you could do.