Will Smith clocks Chris Rock on stage

[bosk1]

So....  we're all convinced that was a tasteless joke, are we?

  We are?  I'm not getting that at all.  Yeah, there are some that are saying that.  And there are some that are saying the joke was a big nothing.  Hardly a consensus.

For me, I'm somewhere in between.  I don't see it as a big deal.  Tasteless and unfunny, but not a big deal.  But then again, I don't have to stand in the shoes of the person it was about, so I have no context for whether or not it may have been more hurtful to her.
 I have no idea.  And, like it or not, the lines are often blurry in comedy because, somewhere along the way, we decided that it's okay for comedians to get onstage and tell jokes that are "funny" because they are offensive. 

All that said, it also doesn't matter to me.  As Carrey said, you don't get to go up onstage and hit somebody because they said words.  To me, the bottom line is that that applies regardless where the joke falls on the spectrum.

We're in full agreement, I think, with everything except MAYBE the timeframe of the "offensive".  Don Rickles made an entire career out of insult comedy, some of it VERY pointed.  Joan Rivers was never shy about going after a vulnerability, and people like Totie Fields dabbled in that as well.  I think the change is not in "funny" becoming rooted in offense, but rather in our personal shifts from "tolerance" to "acceptance".  We no longer deal in "you do you, and I do me, and we don't have to like it, but we're all here on this glorious planet".  We now have unconsciously or not (I believe "or not") morphed to a point where tolerance is no longer acceptable, and the bare minimum is "acceptance".  That's important, because that implies that all of us - comedians included - are to defer and treat each person as an eggshell plaintiff, whether we have knowledge or awareness or not.  That's a very slippery slope; in fact, in my view that's an untenable unsustainable position to be in.  How can we know and be accountable not just for that which we don't know, but also that which we don't even know we don't know?

I wholeheartedly agree with you on the tolerance vs. acceptance issue.  But I also think you are blending two issues together that may be related in this context, but still aren't the same.  The tolerance issue is distinct from the "offensiveness" issue.  And I don't really care about the timing.  The fact that really old people may have engaged in the same tastelessness doesn't make it acceptable.  When I said, "somewhere along the way, we decided," I wasn't necessarily implying that it is a new thing.  King Solomon wrote about that very thing in the book of Proverbs (saying/doing something hurtful, and then when called on it, throwing up the "but I was only joking" defense).  My point was simply that, when we decide that that is okay, we shouldn't be surprised when those chickens come home to roost. 

[Stadler]

Are we forgetting just how much most women value their hair. That is a big issue specifically for some women. The same as how some men value their hair and don't enjoy being bald.

There's a reason why The Simpsons made an entire episode on Homers baldness and his Domoxinyl hair product. The lengths he went to finally have luscious hair and the gains from being a man with hair, compared to how he was perceived when he was bald.

It's a controversy because Will publicly went and slapped Will, the same controversy that Kanye did when he interrupted Taylor Swift to claim Beyonce is better than her.

It's hilarious to me and this incident shows a lot about how these controversies can spread among the people and can get everyone talking about it. Which generates buzz for those involved.

Remember as well, they are all actors and a good actor can convince people of their emotions, which may in fact not be their true emotions. A good actor can cry at will. This reason is why I don't give two shits about it at all.

I just laughed and said...."What did the hand say to the face?"....(slap).

Are you forgetting that Jada went on her own podcast saying that she didn't care what people thought of her bald head?  She also talked publicly on he having an open marriage which obviously upset Will when he found out she had relations with her son's friend.  Sometimes people put themselves in a spotlight they shouldn't do.

Rock of course joked about this (the open marriage) for the last few years.  What Will and Jada should have done was reach out and ask privately to stop.  If you are a celebrity like the Smiths are, I think you are very aware that you might be roasted at the Oscars.  They should take a lot of the responsibility on this.

Well, that's the other side of all of this.  I'm the very first person to note that we have no idea what a marriage is like unless we're living it, minute by minute, but it's fascinating to me where people (seem to) draw the line on things.   They - the Smiths - were lauded by many in media for their "honesty" in dealing with the trials and tribulations of their marriage.  Jada has to my understanding stepped out publicly at least once, and if she was diddling with her son's friend, it seems like TWICE; would a joke about that have been any better received?   

[King Postwhore]

At least from the outside, their marriage seems tense.  If you talk publicly like they did there are issues.  Sort of like us norms posting our troubles on Facebook.  We want attention, we want someone to agree with our stance.  This always seems to backfire and in this case, it did and it bubbled over.

[vtgrad]

Is it not up to the viewer to decide what is tasteless and what is not?  What is offensive and what is not?  Jimmy Carr doesn't offend me in any way... nor does he offend the vast majority of his audience because they know that a part of his show is heckle and response.  It's not like Chris hasn't riffed on Will Smith in the past...

Will seems to not have a problem with other people "being" with his wife since they're in an open relationship... what does he care about this joke and Chris Rock speaking his wife's name?  I'm not judging their relationship, I'm just stating what is apparently well known. 

Celebs know they're going to be roasted a bit at these ceremonies... and I guarantee you that joke was signed off on by the Oscar Committee.  Watching it again, Chris was in a rhythm when he got to that joke... if it was off the cuff or an adlib I'd assume that his rhythm would have been thrown off a bit.  Whether he wrote it or not (seems like I remember reading somewhere that comedians, other than those presenting, write jokes for these ceremonies), it sure seemed to be part of the script for the night.  As far as roasting goes, that was an lightweight joke for certain.

All this talk of Will defending Jada and his family... how would our discussions change if Chris had decided to defend himself in the same manner?  Does he not have that "right"?  What if Chris had decided to defend himself?  I have to say personally, that I would have a hard time being physically assaulted by another man and not responding in-kind... Chris is the better man in this instance.  But what if Chris wasn't the better man?  How would this conversation change (not here specifically, but in general)?

[Ryzee]

I can't believe there's been 6 pages of (mostly) serious discussion on the fact that CHRIS ROCK GOT SLAPPED!  ACROSS THE FACE MY FRIEND!  CHRIS ROCK GOT SLAPPED!  YEAH, THAT JUST HAPPENED!  EVERYBODY SAW IT!   EVERYBODY LAUGHED AND CLAPPED!  IT WAS AWESOME!   CHRIS ROCK GOT SLAPPED!


Actually, it's DTF, I can believe it.    you nerds

[emtee]

There's a multi- generational culture built around, "you disrespected *insert person here*" and the responses vary from slaps and slugs to stabbings and shootings, as well as various other methods of inflicting damage. The feeling among this group is that you deserve what you get if you disrespect somebody. Will's son's tweet, "that's how we do it," sums this up perfectly.

[hefdaddy42]

One thing I haven't seen discussed much (especially here) is how Smith slapping Rock "because of what he said about my wife" perpetuates the (outdated) trope that a woman needs a man to defend her, or defend her honor (never mind the fact that her honor wasn't under attack).  Or is that too heady for you guys? 

[King Postwhore]

One thing I haven't seen discussed much (especially here) is how Smith slapping Rock "because of what he said about my wife" perpetuates the (outdated) trope that a woman needs a man to defend her, or defend her honor (never mind the fact that her honor wasn't under attack).  Or is that too heady for you guys?

Wouldn't you think there was underlying issues between the 2 for Will to have the need to get up and start a fight?  Even if it's perceived by one or by both.  It seems like he had some kind of response to his wife being upset over the joke.

[vtgrad]

One thing I haven't seen discussed much (especially here) is how Smith slapping Rock "because of what he said about my wife" perpetuates the (outdated) trope that a woman needs a man to defend her, or defend her honor (never mind the fact that her honor wasn't under attack).  Or is that too heady for you guys?

Just talking about this with my wife.  She said, it would have been much more appropriate (and much cooler), if Jada had slapped him.     Speaking for my own marriage (which is the only one I can speak for), I'd let my wife handle the response to that type of situation.  I'd only be involved if physically necessary.  Her claws verbally would be sharper than mine... and I suspect the same for Jada.  She could have easily taken CR down a few notches verbally with the platform she has socially.

I'm still missing the point regarding the need to respond to mere words with physical action.  Is the egg shell of ego so frail, for someone who has basically everything a person could want (in a carnal sense) or the means to obtain it, that the need for physical escalation exits for a slight vocal jab?

[King Postwhore]

I think you're forgetting that Rock has joked about them the last few years with them going public about their open marriage.  It's probably bothered them for some time.  Which is why they should have reached out to talk to him about it instead of bubbling to this.

[Ben_Jamin]

Are we forgetting just how much most women value their hair. That is a big issue specifically for some women. The same as how some men value their hair and don't enjoy being bald.

There's a reason why The Simpsons made an entire episode on Homers baldness and his Domoxinyl hair product. The lengths he went to finally have luscious hair and the gains from being a man with hair, compared to how he was perceived when he was bald.

It's a controversy because Will publicly went and slapped Will, the same controversy that Kanye did when he interrupted Taylor Swift to claim Beyonce is better than her.

It's hilarious to me and this incident shows a lot about how these controversies can spread among the people and can get everyone talking about it. Which generates buzz for those involved.

Remember as well, they are all actors and a good actor can convince people of their emotions, which may in fact not be their true emotions. A good actor can cry at will. This reason is why I don't give two shits about it at all.

I just laughed and said...."What did the hand say to the face?"....(slap).

Are you forgetting that Jada went on her own podcast saying that she didn't care what people thought of her bald head?  She also talked publicly on he having an open marriage which obviously upset Will when he found out she had relations with her son's friend.  Sometimes people put themselves in a spotlight they shouldn't do.

Rock of course joked about this (the open marriage) for the last few years.  What Will and Jada should have done was reach out and ask privately to stop.  If you are a celebrity like the Smiths are, I think you are very aware that you might be roasted at the Oscars.  They should take a lot of the responsibility on this.

I don't pay attention. But that's even more hilarious to me knowing that information.

They're both adults and should know and understand the Oscars. I am more amazed how these jokes supposedly get approved by a committee and that was allowed. If Will should've slapped anyone, it should also be the committee who allowed that joke to be told.

But also, that's why Denzel told Will what he told him. Because the devil does things to draw out the detrimental actions that can cause controversy.

Which I relate to meaning he could've had some great publicity and acknowledgement for his Oscar win, but since he chose to act upon the situation the way he did, everyone is talking about that rather than receiving acknowledgement for his Oscar win. Actions are what determine the kind of outcome you will receive.

[WilliamMunny]

One thing I haven't seen discussed much (especially here) is how Smith slapping Rock "because of what he said about my wife" perpetuates the (outdated) trope that a woman needs a man to defend her, or defend her honor (never mind the fact that her honor wasn't under attack).  Or is that too heady for you guys?

Wouldn't you think there was underlying issues between the 2 for Will to have the need to get up and start a fight?  Even if it's perceived by one or by both.  It seems like he had some kind of response to his wife being upset over the joke.

Oh, I'm with you there. The first thing my wife (who is somewhat of a badass) said to me was, "don't you ever do that to me." Translation: "I can take care of myself, thank you very much"

[King Postwhore]

One thing I haven't seen discussed much (especially here) is how Smith slapping Rock "because of what he said about my wife" perpetuates the (outdated) trope that a woman needs a man to defend her, or defend her honor (never mind the fact that her honor wasn't under attack).  Or is that too heady for you guys?

Wouldn't you think there was underlying issues between the 2 for Will to have the need to get up and start a fight?  Even if it's perceived by one or by both.  It seems like he had some kind of response to his wife being upset over the joke.

Oh, I'm with you there. The first thing my wife (who is somewhat of a badass) said to me was, "don't you ever do that to me." Translation: "I can take care of myself, thank you very much"

My wife is going through the change.  I'm safer by sitting there quietly. 

[vtgrad]

I think you're forgetting that Rock has joked about them the last few years with them going public about their open marriage.  It's probably bothered them for some time.  Which is why they should have reached out to talk to him about it instead of bubbling to this.

I understand that there are likely all kinds of undercurrents running between Will & Chris... however, I would think that if you are going to go public with something like an open marriage, that you would be prepared for ridicule from some persons (especially comedians).  If the open marriage is a touchy enough subject to boil-over into this mess (other things compounding it), then why go public at all?  Were they not thinking about the ramifications of letting the world know something so private?

Will should have confronted Chris about this privately for certain... he just decided to make it public in a moment when his guard was down.  We all make mistakes and I understand that as I've made plenty myself, but I just can't get to physical contact from words no matter how compounded.

Maybe I'm seeing this in light of my own career and things that have happened... you guys wouldn't believe some of the things that have been said to me and to my wife by clients, Sellers, Realtors, etc.  Or maybe you would.  It's just how things are now.

Again, how would this discussing change if Chris had defended himself?

[TAC]

How can you be touchy about an open marriage? I mean, that doesn't even make sense. 

[King Postwhore]

How can you be touchy about an open marriage? I mean, that doesn't even make sense. 

How would you feel if your wife banged one of your son's friends which Jada did? 

[Dublagent66]

Regardless if the joke was tasteless or not; talking about another actor's wife in front of an audience of millions is probably not the best policy.  They both were at fault and Smith much more so obviously.

But once we get into "best policy", we're not in a zone we can enforce anymore.  Sort of independent of this particular incident, "best policy" is, arguably, truth, right?  But there's no law that in interpersonal relationships I have to be truthful.  To the best of my knowledge, a defense for assault and battery is not "well, he lied to me!".   I'm not looking at this as "how we want people to act", but rather, how accountable we can hold OTHERS to a standard, and what that standard is.

You know what Stads?  Not every comment deserves a debate or argument.  By "best policy", I meant best judgement (you know like honesty).  Chris Rock of all people should know that sometimes in comedy you have to generalize and not drop names.  Especially when it's not your own comedy show.  The only thing in this case that can be enforced is assault.  Now, if you're talking about introducing "accountability" for those in high places, that's something entirely different.  That wasn't my point.

[TAC]

How can you be touchy about an open marriage? I mean, that doesn't even make sense. 

How would you feel if your wife banged one of your son's friends which Jada did?

But an open marriage is an open marriage. If I agree to that, then it is what it is. I mean, is there a list of approved hookups for her?

[King Postwhore]

How can you be touchy about an open marriage? I mean, that doesn't even make sense. 

How would you feel if your wife banged one of your son's friends which Jada did?

But an open marriage is an open marriage. If I agree to that, then it is what it is. I mean, is there a list of approved hookups for her?

I'd assume that this pick of a partner stung him.  Or maybe that she just announced it publicly that upset him.

[TAC]

Well, he's still married to her, so I guess it didn't hurt him enough.

[vtgrad]

How can you be touchy about an open marriage? I mean, that doesn't even make sense. 

Exactly 

Well, he's still married to her, so I guess it didn't hurt him enough.

Again, exactly.

[Zook]

I can't believe there's been 6 pages of (mostly) serious discussion on the fact that CHRIS ROCK GOT SLAPPED!  ACROSS THE FACE MY FRIEND!  CHRIS ROCK GOT SLAPPED!  YEAH, THAT JUST HAPPENED!  EVERYBODY SAW IT!   EVERYBODY LAUGHED AND CLAPPED!  IT WAS AWESOME!   CHRIS ROCK GOT SLAPPED!


Actually, it's DTF, I can believe it.    you nerds

Would this have happened if Kevin Moore stayed in Dream Theater?

[King Postwhore]

Well, he's still married to her, so I guess it didn't hurt him enough.

I guess crying on TV about the relationship and seeing him slap another man live is showing he's ok.

[TAC]

Well, he's still married to her, so I guess it didn't hurt him enough.

I guess crying on TV about the relationship and seeing him slap another man live is showing he's ok.

Well, I never said he was OK. I just said he wasn't hurt enough.

[hefdaddy42]

I think you're forgetting that Rock has joked about them the last few years with them going public about their open marriage. 

This is not true.  Lots of people have made jokes about that over the last couple of years, but Chris Rock was not one of them.

Back in 2016, he made a joke about Jada, but it had nothing to do with that.  Jada was one of several black celebrities who announced they would boycott the Oscars over lack of black representation amongst nominees.  Rock said "Jada boycotting the Oscars is like me boycotting Rihanna’s panties. I wasn’t invited!”

That is the extent of Chris Rock's joking about the Smiths, as far as I can find.

[King Postwhore]

I think you're forgetting that Rock has joked about them the last few years with them going public about their open marriage. 

This is not true.  Lots of people have made jokes about that over the last couple of years, but Chris Rock was not one of them.

Back in 2016, he made a joke about Jada, but it had nothing to do with that.  Jada was one of several black celebrities who announced they would boycott the Oscars over lack of black representation amongst nominees.  Rock said "Jada boycotting the Oscars is like me boycotting Rihanna’s panties. I wasn’t invited!”

That is the extent of Chris Rock's joking about the Smiths, as far as I can find.

https://www.complex.com/pop-culture/will-smith-chris-rock-oscars-feud-explainer/


A bit of joking and a little bit of a beef between Chris and Will.

[hefdaddy42]

I think you're forgetting that Rock has joked about them the last few years with them going public about their open marriage. 

This is not true.  Lots of people have made jokes about that over the last couple of years, but Chris Rock was not one of them.

Back in 2016, he made a joke about Jada, but it had nothing to do with that.  Jada was one of several black celebrities who announced they would boycott the Oscars over lack of black representation amongst nominees.  Rock said "Jada boycotting the Oscars is like me boycotting Rihanna’s panties. I wasn’t invited!”

That is the extent of Chris Rock's joking about the Smiths, as far as I can find.

https://www.complex.com/pop-culture/will-smith-chris-rock-oscars-feud-explainer/


A bit of joking and a little bit of a beef between Chris and Will.

A lot of conjecture, really.  Most of that is not real "beef" between them.

[Stadler]

There's a multi- generational culture built around, "you disrespected *insert person here*" and the responses vary from slaps and slugs to stabbings and shootings, as well as various other methods of inflicting damage. The feeling among this group is that you deserve what you get if you disrespect somebody. Will's son's tweet, "that's how we do it," sums this up perfectly.

I don't use that terminology, much, but that's at the essence of my thoughts about "insecurity".  What is "disrespect", in that sense, other than my ego is bruised?  No one OWES me respect; I might, at times, feel like I've earned it, but if I'm not getting it, it's a sign to me that I'm delusional, not that someone needs a beating.   I'm not talking about physical protection, I'm talking about words, I'm talking about jokes like we're talking about here.   My wife and I watch a fair amount of reality TV and this comes up a lot.  "I've been disrespected!".  No, bitch, you just haven't had your ass kissed in a manner that you (unreasonably) expected.   Life isn't about having your ass kissed.   Man up and move on, and if you can't man up and move on, go to therapy.  NO ONE OWES YOU ANYTHING IN THIS WORLD. 

[King Postwhore]

Hef, i get it. Just seems very competitive to me.

[Stadler]

Regardless if the joke was tasteless or not; talking about another actor's wife in front of an audience of millions is probably not the best policy.  They both were at fault and Smith much more so obviously.

But once we get into "best policy", we're not in a zone we can enforce anymore.  Sort of independent of this particular incident, "best policy" is, arguably, truth, right?  But there's no law that in interpersonal relationships I have to be truthful.  To the best of my knowledge, a defense for assault and battery is not "well, he lied to me!".   I'm not looking at this as "how we want people to act", but rather, how accountable we can hold OTHERS to a standard, and what that standard is.

You know what Stads?  Not every comment deserves a debate or argument.  By "best policy", I meant best judgement (you know like honesty).  Chris Rock of all people should know that sometimes in comedy you have to generalize and not drop names.  Especially when it's not your own comedy show.  The only thing in this case that can be enforced is assault.  Now, if you're talking about introducing "accountability" for those in high places, that's something entirely different.  That wasn't my point.

It's a conversation.  If you don't want to engage, well, that bums me out, but I'll live.   My only point here, and I intended it to build on your thought, not negate it, is that part of the issue here is that we have at a minimum three different standards (Rock's, Smith's, and the general public's) and likely more, since there is no general consensus, really.  And that to me is the problem we face in our society today. We have this tendency, this need, to force others to adhere to OUR standard, whether they agree with it or not, or, even, if they even know it.  It was just a thought, just an idea.

[Stadler]

Rock said "Jada boycotting the Oscars is like me boycotting Rihanna’s panties. I wasn’t invited!”

That's a great joke, regardless of to whom it's directed.

How would you feel if your wife banged one of your son's friends which Jada did?

But an open marriage is an open marriage. If I agree to that, then it is what it is. I mean, is there a list of approved hookups for her?

There was someone else, too. Some rapper if I remember correctly.  Hey, it's his life.  I don't think I could necessarily live that way, at least not having it on the national papers and being discussed on talk shows, but then again, I'm not narcissistic enough to presume I could entertain millions of people with my acting, so it's apples and oranges.

[KevShmev]

Here comes the fallout...

The Academy is now saying that Will Smith was asked to leave and refused, and concedes that they should have done more.  That reeks of CYA.

[lonestar]

Here comes the fallout...

The Academy is now saying that Will Smith was asked to leave and refused, and concedes that they should have done more.  That reeks of CYA.

Yup, just saw that from AP...and I agree, everyone is going maximum damage control.

[ErHaO]

I think it is pathetic that a man can assault someone on stage, sit back and then gets the award as if nothing happened.  I don't hate Will Smith now or anything, but I do think there should be repercussions.

[KevShmev]

I saw a headline where Whoopi Goldberg (lol, I know), who is apparently on the Academy committee, said there will be big consequences, whatever that means.  I suspect they are seeing this story not die down and how much blowback there is and feeling like they have to do something.

I thought it was interesting that Chris Rock's brother said yesterday that P. Diddy's comment about Rock and Smith making amends Sunday night was a lie and that Smith has still not reached out to his brother to personally apologize.