Will Smith clocks Chris Rock on stage

[ErHaO]

I still don't understand why people are framing this as Chris making fun of a neurological disease, which is like the worst framing you could give to this "joke". And where I live a whole lot of people online seem genuinely really offended because he was making fun of a disease. I wonder if they are just repeating other people or if they actually listened to the quote.

Balding men also have a medical condition. Different pattern and underlying mechanism, sure, but the same outcome. Who decided balding is worse for what gender? Or is a man with alopecia areata a no go and a man with alocepia androgenetica a go?

I have been clean shaven for several years now, should I slap someone every time I get called Mr clean, Johnny Sins or whatever random bald guy is in the minds of people? And to be honest, I view none of those references as making fun of me. Nor do I think referencing the looks of GI Jane is really making fun of someone. More like "yo your current look looks like that attractive badass from that one film".

[lordxizor]

It still just baffles me how he went from casually laughing at the joke to 'I need to smack the shit out of him in front of the biggest audience" in literally two seconds.

I'm assuming you've been to alive comedy show before? Laughter is infectious. I've laughed at jokes at a live comedy show, that in retrospect were not funny. After laughing at several jokes in a row, it's almost like your body is ready to laugh no matter what. Especially when hearing hundreds of people around you also laughing. I can totally understand how he would have started laughing, then realized what the joke meant, and gotten offended. I can also understand that Will would be very sensitive about it after hearing Jada's concerns, insecurities, worries, etc about her condition. I'm sure it was a large source of stress for their life. None of that excuse what he did, but I understand his reaction.

[Stadler]

I was on vacation last night and just saw this now. 

Haven't read the whole thread, but I support Will for doing it.  He alluded to it in his speech that actors are supposed to sit there and take it from a comedian/host at awards shows and laugh along, even if it hits a sore spot.  Good for him for taking a stand when he felt that it crossed a line.  Maybe it will take some of the more tawdry humor out of the awards season and bring it back to more respectful humor.

Post less please.

No thank you, and I understand that I hold an unpopular opinion about this.  Yes, he could have opted to sit in his seat and take it.  Yes, there are non-violent solutions.  But I'm of the thought that these award shows have gone too far with certain types of jokes.  The Oscars are not the Golden Globes, where these jokes are expected and the atmosphere is looser, and even then, I don't agree with the absolute roasting of celebrities where the room becomes uncomfortable.  I don't remember Oscar hosts like Billy Crystal taking things that far back when I was a kid.  You can joke about a movie's box office performance, you can joke about the plot, but you don't just don't joke about someone's appearance. 

I think Will had a point in that it can be unfair to these actors that are expected to take a pounding time and time again from award show hosts.  And I have also seen my nephew deal with relentless bullying at his school.  My brother and sister in law took every single non-violent path they could - talk to the teacher, talk to the school principal, talk to their son and tell him to turn around and walk away, talk to the other parents.  Talk, talk talk.  But nobody listened.  Nobody did anything to stop the behavior.  You know what their final answer was to their son? 

Stand up for yourself.  If these people still torment you after we've tried so hard to talk out different solutions, then get physical with your bully and show him that you're not going to take it anymore. 

Now, I don't know Will Smith and Chris Rock's history, but I do see some of the tormenting that Smith's family has taken from the media and fans - about their unorthodox marriage, about their personal lives.  They talk about it plenty as well.  Maybe it was time for Will to take a stand - he just chose a moment when millions are watching to do it in the heat of the moment and when he was likely to be celebrated. 

Bottom line for me - take the nasty jokes out of the award shows and go back to celebrating these people, not expecting them to be subjected to ridicule because that's what viewers want.  Just because they're millionaires doesn't mean that they need to be the butt of every joke for our entertainment.

So where do we draw the line?  Wasn't Jan 6th, essentially "standing up for oneself"?  Isn't every school shooting essentially "standing up for oneself"?  Certainly, every police shooting is "standing up for oneself".   Since we've now obliterated the line at which assault starts, who gets to decide what's just and what's not? 

Personally, I think we've gone soft with this notion that everyone HAS to treat us with kid gloves.  I cannot be offended! I'm short, I'm not as slim as I'd like to be.   You know what?  Go for it.  If your defining image of me is "short", I'm not going to stop you.  All my wit, wisdom, charm, and accomplishments aren't going to change that.  I can either be Napoleon and go around the world punching people in the face, or I can do the hard work and come to grips with it.  I get that it's not easy for everyone, I get that it's not a perfect solution, but I'd MUCH rather promote the idea that we tend our own garden, that we make ourselves strong than we go around trying to slap the world into "loving us" to our satisfaction. 

[King Postwhore]

I think he saw the look on her face and Jada was really upset with the joke prompting Will to have poor judgement.

[Stadler]

That has nothing to do with what anybody here is saying.  Whether Chris Rock was "at fault" or not isn't the issue.  The issue is whether Smith crossed the line in responding with violence.  And the only correct answer is yes.

As far as whether the "humor" has gone too far, I don't disagree with you.  But that is largely irrelevant to this situation.

Actually, the humor is 100% relevant.  Will even said so in his acceptance speech - see what I underlined below.  He's sick and tired of pretending that it's ok to be the butt of someone's joke. 

See, I see this part differently.  I don't see this as your call.   If someone wants to joke about something, that's on them and whether the joke kills or falls flat, so be it.  I don't get this idea that we somehow have "control" over how others see us or take us or deal with us.   It's baffling to me. 

I don't even agree that "Keep joking about my wife and we'll have an issue" is the right answer; that's still a threat of violence.  What, kicking the shit out of Chris Rock in the parking lot is better than slapping him on stage?   Why not address the issue at the root: "Honey, this isn't something you planned, this is something you have to deal with; if Chris Rock is inconsiderate or rude or hurtful to you, does that change how much we love each other, or your children love you?"   Why this need to "change the world" to your liking?   

[King Postwhore]

If you don't know the jokes are coming from host and presenters, you are fooling yourself.  Secondly, if it was a problem, why not talk in private to Rock on the situation?  Like adults.

[bosk1]

If you don't know the jokes are coming from host and presenters, you are fooling yourself.  Secondly, if it was a problem, why not talk in private to Rock on the situation?  Like adults.

Right?  And take it somewhere off campus to de-escalate the vibe.  Go to a nice professional manor and discuss it like grownups.

[lonestar]

If you don't know the jokes are coming from host and presenters, you are fooling yourself.  Secondly, if it was a problem, why not talk in private to Rock on the situation?  Like adults.

Right?  And take it somewhere off campus to de-escalate the vibe.  Go to a nice professional manor and discuss it like grownups.

Exactly.. Again it baffles me how he went from lol to 'gonna fuck this guy up' in a flash. Maybe from lol to'I need to give him a talking to' or 'let me light him up in my acceptance speech' would be normal-is. If it's not all a fake, and it's seeming so more and more, Will has some serious, deep set anger that he has absolutely no clue how to deal with, and we all saw his lack on full display.

[Zook]

I'm curious how this would've gone if it was Wanda Sykes that made this joke.

She would have found a way to make it even less funny.

[lonestar]

 

[Architeuthis]

It's interesting that Denzel Washington warned Will Smith saying something to the degree of " be careful, when you're at your highest point, that's when the devil will show up".   
It looks like he may have been onto something..

[KevShmev]

That was a cute defense by Smith - "the devil made me do it!!"  - but, no, Will, you did it.  No one made you do it.  You chose to go up on stage and assault Chris Rock.  I get his anger, but there are 101 ways he could have handled it and he chose the 99th best one.

[Architeuthis]

I think what Denzel meant,  is that the devil can tempt you or put a situation in front of you that can potentially lead to a bad decision.  The devil can't make you do anything, but he can agg it on or taunt you.  Whether it be literally or figuratively..

[MirrorMask]

I had to give in and see it as well.

Well, as tasteless Chris Rock's joke was, he handed it like a pro, he got smacked with the "whole world" watching and he kept his cool, tried to play it down, and didn't escalate any further. It takes nerves of steel to keep going.

Also, like I read on a YouTube comment... congratulations to Will Smith for having immortalized a joke that everyone would have forgotten 20 seconds after it was said. People now will remember the blow, and the reason behind it.

In five years time.... "man do you remember when Will Smith smacked Chris Rock because he made fun of his wife's alopecia?"

[Awaken]

Jim Carrey's thoughts on this are spot on, in my opinion.  His comments start at 3:55 or so

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydbJ1LMLag0

[KevShmev]

Jim Carrey's thoughts on this are spot on, in my opinion.  His comments start at 3:55 or so

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydbJ1LMLag0

Agreed, but something tells me Carrey wouldn't be publicly saying this if he was still an A-lister in his prime.  I suspect the jury is still out on how this will really affect Smith's career, which is why almost no one from Hollywood who is still arguably in their box office prime is coming out in defense of or criticizing Smith.  You don't want to defend him and then his career tanks and you look like the fool who had his back, and you don't want to criticize him and then his career is just fine and you are the idiot who is then blacklisted for not having his back.  Carrey has very little to lose by saying what he said because his Hollywood career is all but done anyway.

[Stadler]

So....  we're all convinced that was a tasteless joke, are we?  As with most things that "offend", it CAN be taken in two ways.  Crass marking of someone's affliction, or subtle shout-out that will make people laugh but with affection (The original GI Jane - Demi Moore - was a strong, powerful, beautiful woman who embraced her baldness)?   As almost always happens in these situations, since we all know what other people are thinking, a narrative forms, and it gets adhered to, whether it comports with the ACTUAL truth (which only Rock REALLY knows) or not.

[lonestar]

Good essay on Will's use of God in his "defense" of his actions...

https://onlysky.media/hemant-mehta/will-smiths-apology-at-the-oscars-was-a-faith-based-defense-of-bad-behavior/


"If he really wanted to follow God’s example, he could easily have turned the other cheek, but that never seems to be in the toolbox for thin-skinned believers, does it?"

[T-ski]

Jim Carrey's thoughts on this are spot on, in my opinion.  His comments start at 3:55 or so

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydbJ1LMLag0

Agreed, but something tells me Carrey wouldn't be publicly saying this if he was still an A-lister in his prime.  I suspect the jury is still out on how this will really affect Smith's career, which is why almost no one from Hollywood who is still arguably in their box office prime is coming out in defense of or criticizing Smith.  You don't want to defend him and then his career tanks and you look like the fool who had his back, and you don't want to criticize him and then his career is just fine and you are the idiot who is then blacklisted for not having his back.  Carrey has very little to lose by saying what he said because his Hollywood career is all but done anyway.

Wasn’t that Carrey’s point though? Hollywood thinking they’re above and beyond what happened?

[TAC]

Jim Carrey's thoughts on this are spot on, in my opinion.  His comments start at 3:55 or so

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydbJ1LMLag0

Agreed, but something tells me Carrey wouldn't be publicly saying this if he was still an A-lister in his prime.  I suspect the jury is still out on how this will really affect Smith's career, which is why almost no one from Hollywood who is still arguably in their box office prime is coming out in defense of or criticizing Smith.  You don't want to defend him and then his career tanks and you look like the fool who had his back, and you don't want to criticize him and then his career is just fine and you are the idiot who is then blacklisted for not having his back.  Carrey has very little to lose by saying what he said because his Hollywood career is all but done anyway.

I agree Kev 100%.

[WilliamMunny]

So....  we're all convinced that was a tasteless joke, are we?  As with most things that "offend", it CAN be taken in two ways.  Crass marking of someone's affliction, or subtle shout-out that will make people laugh but with affection (The original GI Jane - Demi Moore - was a strong, powerful, beautiful woman who embraced her baldness)?   As almost always happens in these situations, since we all know what other people are thinking, a narrative forms, and it gets adhered to, whether it comports with the ACTUAL truth (which only Rock REALLY knows) or not.

This. Obviously, this was a topic of convo at work the past couple of days, but I was shocked by how unanimous the opinion was that Rock said what he said out of malice. I made the point that there exists the possibility that he was simply trying to make an 'off the cuff' joke, and Jada's short hair connected some dots in his brain and led to the joke, and virtually everyone was like, "nooooo, he knew what he was saying, and it was a dig at her condition."

Honestly, only Rock knows the truth, but I'm always surprised by how people are so quick to default to 'malicious intent' when attempting to deduce motivations from afar.

[Stadler]

So....  we're all convinced that was a tasteless joke, are we?  As with most things that "offend", it CAN be taken in two ways.  Crass marking of someone's affliction, or subtle shout-out that will make people laugh but with affection (The original GI Jane - Demi Moore - was a strong, powerful, beautiful woman who embraced her baldness)?   As almost always happens in these situations, since we all know what other people are thinking, a narrative forms, and it gets adhered to, whether it comports with the ACTUAL truth (which only Rock REALLY knows) or not.

This. Obviously, this was a topic of convo at work the past couple of days, but I was shocked by how unanimous the opinion was that Rock said what he said out of malice. I made the point that there exists the possibility that he was simply trying to make an 'off the cuff' joke, and Jada's short hair connected some dots in his brain and led to the joke, and virtually everyone was like, "nooooo, he knew what he was saying, and it was a dig at her condition."

Honestly, only Rock knows the truth, but I'm always surprised by how people are so quick to default to 'malicious intent' when attempting to deduce motivations from afar.

I don't know if you spend much (if any) time in P/R, but I write about this a lot. We - America - are an EXCEEDINGLY insecure nation. We constantly seek affirmation (social media) and we are very quick to find offense or affront.  It's across the board; race, religion, dress... start to notice how many news stories of "social events" are tied to that insecurity.  In this day and age of fast-moving data, it's too easy to be left behind, and our identity, such that WE define it, becomes all we have.  Then to have someone disparage that identity - be it our sexuality, the music we like, the clothes we wear, the tattoos we choose - it becomes something that has to be defended.  Couple that with the inherent American trait of having to "FIGHT" - our very nation is rooted in that - it becomes an untenable situation.  We are NOT a "turn the other cheek" nation, and in fact it's deemed weakness.  Our politicians are trained to sell us on their ability to "FIGHT" for us - that's Alexandria Ocasio Cortez's entire schtick, and she's by far not the only one on either side of the aisle - and we accept that as their bona fide.

No one really picked up on it, but that's the genesis of my comment that Will Smith did what we all wish, deep down and in certain circumstances, we could and would do.  But since "violence" is in conflict with our better nature, it's easier to point fingers at Chris Rock and say "you instigated this!"  It lets us off the hook for owning our own insecurities and frailties.

[Stadler]

Wow.  I just listened to Jim Carrey's take.  Now, full disclosure, I'm not the hugest Jim Carrey fan; I'm not huge on that "whacky, silly" style of comedy, and I don't think I've ever seen him so serious for such a sustained amount of time.  But, whether I agree with him or not (and I do, particularly the "words" part) it's telling that that is the incident that sobers his delivery.

[KevShmev]

I don't think the joke was tasteless or malicious.  It feels like many who are trying everything they can to give Smith some kind of pass are trying to play it off like Rock was making fun of Jada's condition, but, no, the joke was about her lack of hair.  Had he said, "Damn, Jada, that alopecia is really giving you that G.I. Jane look," then, yeah, but he said nothing about her disease. The joke was about her hair, and it wasn't even an insult!  G.I. Jane was a badass character from what I remember, so being the next G.I. Jane is almost a compliment, even if it was meant to be a joke.

It is also worth noting that Jada is a celeb of sorts, as I have seen some chatter that she should be off limits because she is Will Smith's wife (how sexist is that??).  No, she is a celeb of sorts, has her own show where she has been very public about things in her personal live, and apparently has over a million followers on Twitter (which apparently matters). She is very much a public figure, thus fair game.  Children and partners of celebs should be off limits, yes, but while she may not have the pedigree of Will Smith, she is still a celeb herself.

[bosk1]

So....  we're all convinced that was a tasteless joke, are we?

  We are?  I'm not getting that at all.  Yeah, there are some that are saying that.  And there are some that are saying the joke was a big nothing.  Hardly a consensus.

For me, I'm somewhere in between.  I don't see it as a big deal.  Tasteless and unfunny, but not a big deal.  But then again, I don't have to stand in the shoes of the person it was about, so I have no context for whether or not it may have been more hurtful to her.
 I have no idea.  And, like it or not, the lines are often blurry in comedy because, somewhere along the way, we decided that it's okay for comedians to get onstage and tell jokes that are "funny" because they are offensive. 

All that said, it also doesn't matter to me.  As Carrey said, you don't get to go up onstage and hit somebody because they said words.  To me, the bottom line is that that applies regardless where the joke falls on the spectrum. 

[cramx3]

Should be noted that my local Chris Rock show this summer is almost completely sold out now

[Lonk]

So....  we're all convinced that was a tasteless joke, are we?

  We are?  I'm not getting that at all.  Yeah, there are some that are saying that.  And there are some that are saying the joke was a big nothing.  Hardly a consensus.

For me, I'm somewhere in between.  I don't see it as a big deal.  Tasteless and unfunny, but not a big deal.  But then again, I don't have to stand in the shoes of the person it was about, so I have no context for whether or not it may have been more hurtful to her.
 I have no idea.  And, like it or not, the lines are often blurry in comedy because, somewhere along the way, we decided that it's okay for comedians to get onstage and tell jokes that are "funny" because they are offensive. 

All that said, it also doesn't matter to me.  As Carrey said, you don't get to go up onstage and hit somebody because they said words.  To me, the bottom line is that that applies regardless where the joke falls on the spectrum.

(Slightly) Off topic, But the bolded is the reason I am picky with my comedy. There are a lot of stand up comedians that I hear about how funny and great their "Netflix special" or "Comedy Central special" was, and when I go watch it I end up rolling my eyes more than I laugh.

[Zook]

I thought there was already a GI Jane direct to video sequel.

[Harmony]

You know...it would be freaking awesome if Jada wound up doing a GI Jane reboot after all of this.   

For my money, Kareem Abdul Jabbar had the best take on the incident so far.

[Dublagent66]

Regardless if the joke was tasteless or not; talking about another actor's wife in front of an audience of millions is probably not the best policy.  They both were at fault and Smith much more so obviously.

[Ben_Jamin]

Are we forgetting just how much most women value their hair. That is a big issue specifically for some women. The same as how some men value their hair and don't enjoy being bald.

There's a reason why The Simpsons made an entire episode on Homers baldness and his Domoxinyl hair product. The lengths he went to finally have luscious hair and the gains from being a man with hair, compared to how he was perceived when he was bald.

It's a controversy because Will publicly went and slapped Will, the same controversy that Kanye did when he interrupted Taylor Swift to claim Beyonce is better than her.

It's hilarious to me and this incident shows a lot about how these controversies can spread among the people and can get everyone talking about it. Which generates buzz for those involved.

Remember as well, they are all actors and a good actor can convince people of their emotions, which may in fact not be their true emotions. A good actor can cry at will. This reason is why I don't give two shits about it at all.

I just laughed and said...."What did the hand say to the face?"....(slap).

[King Postwhore]

Are we forgetting just how much most women value their hair. That is a big issue specifically for some women. The same as how some men value their hair and don't enjoy being bald.

There's a reason why The Simpsons made an entire episode on Homers baldness and his Domoxinyl hair product. The lengths he went to finally have luscious hair and the gains from being a man with hair, compared to how he was perceived when he was bald.

It's a controversy because Will publicly went and slapped Will, the same controversy that Kanye did when he interrupted Taylor Swift to claim Beyonce is better than her.

It's hilarious to me and this incident shows a lot about how these controversies can spread among the people and can get everyone talking about it. Which generates buzz for those involved.

Remember as well, they are all actors and a good actor can convince people of their emotions, which may in fact not be their true emotions. A good actor can cry at will. This reason is why I don't give two shits about it at all.

I just laughed and said...."What did the hand say to the face?"....(slap).

Are you forgetting that Jada went on her own podcast saying that she didn't care what people thought of her bald head?  She also talked publicly on he having an open marriage which obviously upset Will when he found out she had relations with her son's friend.  Sometimes people put themselves in a spotlight they shouldn't do.

Rock of course joked about this (the open marriage) for the last few years.  What Will and Jada should have done was reach out and ask privately to stop.  If you are a celebrity like the Smiths are, I think you are very aware that you might be roasted at the Oscars.  They should take a lot of the responsibility on this.

[Stadler]

So....  we're all convinced that was a tasteless joke, are we?

  We are?  I'm not getting that at all.  Yeah, there are some that are saying that.  And there are some that are saying the joke was a big nothing.  Hardly a consensus.

For me, I'm somewhere in between.  I don't see it as a big deal.  Tasteless and unfunny, but not a big deal.  But then again, I don't have to stand in the shoes of the person it was about, so I have no context for whether or not it may have been more hurtful to her.
 I have no idea.  And, like it or not, the lines are often blurry in comedy because, somewhere along the way, we decided that it's okay for comedians to get onstage and tell jokes that are "funny" because they are offensive. 

All that said, it also doesn't matter to me.  As Carrey said, you don't get to go up onstage and hit somebody because they said words.  To me, the bottom line is that that applies regardless where the joke falls on the spectrum.

We're in full agreement, I think, with everything except MAYBE the timeframe of the "offensive".  Don Rickles made an entire career out of insult comedy, some of it VERY pointed.  Joan Rivers was never shy about going after a vulnerability, and people like Totie Fields dabbled in that as well.  I think the change is not in "funny" becoming rooted in offense, but rather in our personal shifts from "tolerance" to "acceptance".  We no longer deal in "you do you, and I do me, and we don't have to like it, but we're all here on this glorious planet".  We now have unconsciously or not (I believe "or not") morphed to a point where tolerance is no longer acceptable, and the bare minimum is "acceptance".  That's important, because that implies that all of us - comedians included - are to defer and treat each person as an eggshell plaintiff, whether we have knowledge or awareness or not.  That's a very slippery slope; in fact, in my view that's an untenable unsustainable position to be in.  How can we know and be accountable not just for that which we don't know, but also that which we don't even know we don't know?

[Stadler]

Regardless if the joke was tasteless or not; talking about another actor's wife in front of an audience of millions is probably not the best policy.  They both were at fault and Smith much more so obviously.

But once we get into "best policy", we're not in a zone we can enforce anymore.  Sort of independent of this particular incident, "best policy" is, arguably, truth, right?  But there's no law that in interpersonal relationships I have to be truthful.  To the best of my knowledge, a defense for assault and battery is not "well, he lied to me!".   I'm not looking at this as "how we want people to act", but rather, how accountable we can hold OTHERS to a standard, and what that standard is.

[Anguyen92]

Should be noted that my local Chris Rock show this summer is almost completely sold out now

Would be interesting if the first thing he said in his shows were, "Wow, look how packed this crowd is today.  I guess I should try getting punched in live TV more often if turns into you guys showing up."