2022 NFL Thread (Chiefs win Super Bowl 57)

[El Barto]

El Barto. Can I critique Bill Belichick now?  He is the gm that built this team.  Who put together this coaching staff.  Ugh. Welcome to .500 ball watch 4 years to see him beat Shula's record for wins.

Yeah, he sucks. They should fire him. Who'd he blow to get this job?

Man, it took me until recently for me to figure out that Kev was right all along. Patriots fans really are awful. 

[KevShmev]

Yes!  Barto has seen the light!!

Six Super Bowls wins should keep any fanbase happy for life.  Should.

[TAC]

And then 3 and out. Oof.

Shocker.

[King Postwhore]

El Barto. Can I critique Bill Belichick now?  He is the gm that built this team.  Who put together this coaching staff.  Ugh. Welcome to .500 ball watch 4 years to see him beat Shula's record for wins.

Yeah, he sucks. They should fire him. Who'd he blow to get this job?

Man, it took me until recently for me to figure out that Kev was right all along. Patriots fans really are awful. 

 

So frustrating seeing the offensive struggle 90% of the games and the D so porous against good offensive teams.

[TAC]

Man, it took me until recently for me to figure out that Kev was right all along. Patriots fans really are awful. 

I don't consider myself a "Patriots fan" per se, but is Belichick in your eyes above critique?

He drives Brady out.
Believes he only needs an average QB to be successful.
Pads his staff with his kids and kids of his friends.
Hasn't developed any successful coaches.
Puts his offence in the hands of people that have no clue what they're doing.


I think Bill is a brilliant coach in that he can dissect and teach a game better than anyone.
And while his last two drafts have been decent, he's over his head with his recent history of awful drafting, spending on FAs that don't contribute, and an inadequate and inexperienced coaching staff.

They're going 7-10 this year, and Kraft cannot be happy.

I'm not clamoring for him to be fired, but there are going to have to be some changes going forward.
He and Mac are still not seeing eye to eye.

[El Barto]

Man, it took me until recently for me to figure out that Kev was right all along. Patriots fans really are awful. 

I don't consider myself a "Patriots fan" per se, but is Belichick in your eyes above critique?

Of course not. The criticisms should be legit, though, and as you wonderfully demonstrate, as often as not they aren't.

He drives Brady out. Nonsense. Brady's a whiny little bitch. He was gone no matter what.
Believes he only needs an average QB to be successful. Just because you think MacCorkle is average doesn't mean that's how Belichick sees things.
Pads his staff with his kids and kids of his friends. Who've typically done pretty well within the organization.
Hasn't developed any successful coaches. Are you fucking nuts? I guess you mean head coaches after they leave NE. So what? How's that on him? His coaches have typically been excellent.
Puts his offence in the hands of people that have no clue what they're doing. Perhaps, but the verdict's still out for me. I wouldn't rule Patricia out as a decent OC at some point, nor would I rule out a return to O'Brien.

Don't confuse pushing back on your interpretations as me being unwilling to criticize Belichick. There are definitely areas he should be handling better. I just don't see the doom and gloom that you, Joe, and apparently Boston talking heads do.

[TheRich13]

Finally the Dolphins are looking respectable and New England have settled down ….and now The Bills are killing everybody !
I don’t see Miami beating the Niners, Chargers , Or the Bills in the next few weeks …

[King Postwhore]

Disagree El Barto.   He offers a 1 year deal with incentives to your 5 time SB QB after winning in 2018. Never mind the offer with incentives in 2018 with a 5 time SB where the QB works with the owner to take less to block the ability for the team to franchise him. 

That says it all.

People want to say they couldn't get the players to help Brady thst year if he stayed. Who's fault is that?  We know the answer. 

[TAC]

Man, it took me until recently for me to figure out that Kev was right all along. Patriots fans really are awful. 

I don't consider myself a "Patriots fan" per se, but is Belichick in your eyes above critique?

Of course not. The criticisms should be legit, though, and as you wonderfully demonstrate, as often as not they aren't.

He drives Brady out. Nonsense. Brady's a whiny little bitch. He was gone no matter what.
Believes he only needs an average QB to be successful. Just because you think MacCorkle is average doesn't mean that's how Belichick sees things.
Pads his staff with his kids and kids of his friends. Who've typically done pretty well within the organization.
Hasn't developed any successful coaches. Are you fucking nuts? I guess you mean head coaches after they leave NE. So what? How's that on him? His coaches have typically been excellent.
Puts his offence in the hands of people that have no clue what they're doing. Perhaps, but the verdict's still out for me. I wouldn't rule Patricia out as a decent OC at some point, nor would I rule out a return to O'Brien.

Don't confuse pushing back on your interpretations as me being unwilling to criticize Belichick. There are definitely areas he should be handling better. I just don't see the doom and gloom that you, Joe, and apparently Boston talking heads do.

Yeah, but you are a definite "In Bill We Trust" guy.

The thing about the average QB wasn't about Mac. Hell, Bill didn't even want him. It was from a book, I can't remember, where a Pat's coach said that Bill believes he can win with an average QB.

Bill was not willing to give Brady the Drew Brees contract. That's what Brady wanted. Brady also held the Malcolm Butler SB benching against Bill. In Brady's mind, Bill put himself above the team. It was only after that that Brady started to be more selfish.

You're Belichick guy. I don't expect you to take Brady's side on it. I don't have a dog in the race. Brady was a dick at the end, I'll give you that. But people not named Cam Newton stopped taking discounts to play here once Brady left.

[KevShmev]

What cracks me up is that Belichick apparently gets no credit for having his coaching staff coach Brady up to the level he got.  He was drafted in the 6th round for a reason, and while he always had ice in his veins in crunch time from the start, he wasn't a consistently elite QB until his late 20s, so the idea that he walked into the league as this stud and that Belichick was lucky to get him is crap.  Belichick's staff did a great job in coaching him up (and Brady, to his credit, is a guy who wants to be coached), and Brady, being an intelligent guy and hard worker, has gotten the most out of his abilities. 

[TAC]

What cracks me up is that Belichick apparently gets no credit for having his coaching staff coach Brady up to the level he got.  He was drafted in the 6th round for a reason, and while he always had ice in his veins in crunch time from the start, he wasn't a consistently elite QB until his late 20s, so the idea that he walked into the league as this stud and that Belichick was lucky to get him is crap.  Belichick's staff did a great job in coaching him up (and Brady, to his credit, is a guy who wants to be coached), and Brady, being an intelligent guy and hard worker, has gotten the most out of his abilities.

There were great coaches. Weiss, McDaniels, Scar, Ivan Fears for sure. Weiss was a Parcells guy. Scar had been with the Pats organization long before Bill ever got here.

What's Bill's record without Brady again?

[KevShmev]

A lot better than Bill Walsh's was without Joe Montana.

[King Postwhore]

That's a fallacy.  All great coaches need a great QB to win.

[TAC]

3rd and Goal....from the 21!!

[King Postwhore]

3 timeouts and no fight. You made this team Bill.

[El Barto]

Yeah, but you are a definite "In Bill We Trust" guy.

I really appreciate the way he approaches the game, and I think he's a far, far better coach than most teams can dig up. True enough. I also think that the Patriots fans that are turning on him are fools. Who are you going to get that's better? That goes for GM, too. You want to roll the dice on a new guy?

Bill was not willing to give Brady the Drew Brees contract. That's what Brady wanted. Brady also held the Malcolm Butler SB benching against Bill. In Brady's mind, Bill put himself above the team. It was only after that that Brady started to be more selfish.

Brady held a helluva lot of things against him. Here's the thing, though. Bill and TB were both always team first guys from the very beginning. By all accounts TB 12 was thoroughly vested in what we call the Patriot Way. And yet after 15 years of success he decided he wanted more and more. He didn't like the salaries. He didn't like his receivers (and therefore wouldn't try to utilize them). He didn't like being treated like he wasn't the MVP. All things contrary to the way the organization had been running for so long. Yeah, fuck that guy. I won't say I'm glad he's gone, obviously, but I don't blame Bill for not selling his soul to keep him there, either.

Remember when Brady and his wife went to Kraft to try and get Bill fired and replaced with O'Brien? Yeah, real team player. That's why I think he's a whiny little bitch, and frankly, he's earned the hell he's stuck in right now.

But people not named Cam Newton stopped taking discounts to play here once Brady left.

Absolutely. On this we agree. This might be a bigger loss to the Patriots than Brady himself, I think. Not just his ability to attract aging veterans looking for a ring, but maintaining the team culture that Brady used to buy into. I don't blame Bill for that, though.

As for the coaching staff (your and Kev's discussion) that's part and parcel with losing Brady and the culture buy in. Bill hired/kept/promoted from within to maintain that culture and way of doing things. It's getting harder and harder to maintain, which is why (I think) we're seeing missed tackles. Stupid penalties. Sloppy special teams. Still, he's trying to keep the right guys around, and bringing back former players to try and maintain that, and I think that's the right thing to do. The good news is that former players are getting to the point where they might want to be position coaches, and NE is where they'll want to be.

[hefdaddy42]

I'm no Patriots fan, but it was great to see the old uniforms last night.

[King Postwhore]

Brady was pissed he couldn't have his witch doctor, Guerrero on the sidelines and went to Kraft.  Not to fire him but to get his guy back on the sidelines.  It did cause waves with the coaching staff because some of the players were listening to Guerrero over the training staff. And I don't think a 2 year deal is unreasonable for the best QB in the league at that time. $25 million wasn't the highest paid per year in 2017.

[El Barto]

Brady was pissed he couldn't have his witch doctor, Guerrero on the sidelines and went to Kraft.  Not to fire him but to get his guy back on the sidelines.  It did cause waves with the coaching staff because some of the players were listening to Guerrero over the training staff. And I don't think a 2 year deal is unreasonable for the best QB in the league at that time. $25 million wasn't the highest paid per year in 2017.

There were accounts of a meeting with Kraft where Budchen was highly vocal about the goings on, and the upshot was that they wanted to swap Bills. Perhaps one of those SI feature stories (which they're surprisingly good at). In any case, none of these accounts suggest that Brady was maintaining the team first attitude that made the organization work.

Like I said, Brady had grown resentful of a very long list of things.

And to be fair, I don't hold Bill blameless in this, but at least he was being what he'd always been. BBB was being a whiny little [hypocritical] bitch.

[King Postwhore]

Brady was pissed he couldn't have his witch doctor, Guerrero on the sidelines and went to Kraft.  Not to fire him but to get his guy back on the sidelines.  It did cause waves with the coaching staff because some of the players were listening to Guerrero over the training staff. And I don't think a 2 year deal is unreasonable for the best QB in the league at that time. $25 million wasn't the highest paid per year in 2017.

There were accounts of a meeting with Kraft where Budchen was highly vocal about the goings on, and the upshot was that they wanted to swap Bills. Perhaps one of those SI feature stories (which they're surprisingly good at). In any case, none of these accounts suggest that Brady was maintaining the team first attitude that made the organization work.

Like I said, Brady had grown resentful of a very long list of things.

And to be fair, I don't hold Bill blameless in this, but at least he was being what he'd always been. BBB was being a whiny little [hypocritical] bitch.

I'd still put up with the bullshit with the greatest QB ever.  Right now, I'm more worried about how pedestrian the Pats O is and how predictable.  Players now speaking openly about how the other teams know what they are going to run a play.

[Skeever]

Oooh Pats fans foolishly calling for the end of the BB era 

As a Jets fan, I freaking love this. Good. Run BB out of town. Then, welcome you to the field of potential NFL Head Coaches. It's pretty dark and grim, not sure you can handle it what the next decade or more would look like.

Pats fans, please. STFU. It's December and you're playing for playoffs. You were 10-7 last year. You have enjoyed the warmth of summer for so long you have no idea what winter is really like. For the love of God I hope you get what you want.

[El Barto]

Brady was pissed he couldn't have his witch doctor, Guerrero on the sidelines and went to Kraft.  Not to fire him but to get his guy back on the sidelines.  It did cause waves with the coaching staff because some of the players were listening to Guerrero over the training staff. And I don't think a 2 year deal is unreasonable for the best QB in the league at that time. $25 million wasn't the highest paid per year in 2017.

There were accounts of a meeting with Kraft where Budchen was highly vocal about the goings on, and the upshot was that they wanted to swap Bills. Perhaps one of those SI feature stories (which they're surprisingly good at). In any case, none of these accounts suggest that Brady was maintaining the team first attitude that made the organization work.

Like I said, Brady had grown resentful of a very long list of things.

And to be fair, I don't hold Bill blameless in this, but at least he was being what he'd always been. BBB was being a whiny little [hypocritical] bitch.

I'd still put up with the bullshit with the greatest QB ever. 

I'm not sure I would. You risk losing the rest of the team, and as great as Brady was, he wasn't great enough to cover for 51 other guys. He's always needed a good team around him to succeed, just like any other QB.

Right now, I'm more worried about how pedestrian the Pats O is and how predictable.  Players now speaking openly about how the other teams know what they are going to run a play.

This is a valid concern. It's not the greatest of them, though. I'm more concerned about the O-line, the mental lapses, and the spectacular drop off in MacCorkle's accuracy. Perfect touch was his strongest suit last year, and this year it's totally gone. The first two are absolutely on the coaching, but the third is on MJ.

[pg1067]

The good news is the Patriots are wearing their awesome unis tonight, complimented by the greatest helmet in NFL history.  Why they ever changed from that is a total mystery.

They wore old Broncos helmets?  How truly odd.

[King Postwhore]

Brady was pissed he couldn't have his witch doctor, Guerrero on the sidelines and went to Kraft.  Not to fire him but to get his guy back on the sidelines.  It did cause waves with the coaching staff because some of the players were listening to Guerrero over the training staff. And I don't think a 2 year deal is unreasonable for the best QB in the league at that time. $25 million wasn't the highest paid per year in 2017.

There were accounts of a meeting with Kraft where Budchen was highly vocal about the goings on, and the upshot was that they wanted to swap Bills. Perhaps one of those SI feature stories (which they're surprisingly good at). In any case, none of these accounts suggest that Brady was maintaining the team first attitude that made the organization work.

Like I said, Brady had grown resentful of a very long list of things.

And to be fair, I don't hold Bill blameless in this, but at least he was being what he'd always been. BBB was being a whiny little [hypocritical] bitch.

I'd still put up with the bullshit with the greatest QB ever. 

I'm not sure I would. You risk losing the rest of the team, and as great as Brady was, he wasn't great enough to cover for 51 other guys. He's always needed a good team around him to succeed, just like any other QB.

Right now, I'm more worried about how pedestrian the Pats O is and how predictable.  Players now speaking openly about how the other teams know what they are going to run a play.

This is a valid concern. It's not the greatest of them, though. I'm more concerned about the O-line, the mental lapses, and the spectacular drop off in MacCorkle's accuracy. Perfect touch was his strongest suit last year, and this year it's totally gone. The first two are absolutely on the coaching, but the third is on MJ.

I think it's because of the scheming.  4 of the O-line returned this year so I'd have to look at the OC and line coach.  That's Patricia & Judge. There is a distinct difference from last year.  It's affecting a young QB.  His accuracy is off because he's hearing footsteps these days.  BB should have gotten a real OC.  Look at Bourne.  He was great last year and now, a 3rd down, 3rd receiver.

Something is not right and you have to look at Bill who put this staff together.

[King Postwhore]

El Barto.  Just written today. This is being asked by man fans in N.E.   

https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/patriots/the-patriots-have-a-problem-and-its-spelled-b-i-l-l

[Stadler]

The good news is the Patriots are wearing their awesome unis tonight, complimented by the greatest helmet in NFL history.  Why they ever changed from that is a total mystery.

WORD.

[KevShmev]

El Barto.  Just written today. This is being asked by man fans in N.E.   

https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/patriots/the-patriots-have-a-problem-and-its-spelled-b-i-l-l

Proving once again that Boston sports fans are the worst.

[Stadler]

Man, it took me until recently for me to figure out that Kev was right all along. Patriots fans really are awful. 

I don't consider myself a "Patriots fan" per se, but is Belichick in your eyes above critique?

Of course not. The criticisms should be legit, though, and as you wonderfully demonstrate, as often as not they aren't.

He drives Brady out. Nonsense. Brady's a whiny little bitch. He was gone no matter what.
Believes he only needs an average QB to be successful. Just because you think MacCorkle is average doesn't mean that's how Belichick sees things.
Pads his staff with his kids and kids of his friends. Who've typically done pretty well within the organization.
Hasn't developed any successful coaches. Are you fucking nuts? I guess you mean head coaches after they leave NE. So what? How's that on him? His coaches have typically been excellent.
Puts his offence in the hands of people that have no clue what they're doing. Perhaps, but the verdict's still out for me. I wouldn't rule Patricia out as a decent OC at some point, nor would I rule out a return to O'Brien.

Don't confuse pushing back on your interpretations as me being unwilling to criticize Belichick. There are definitely areas he should be handling better. I just don't see the doom and gloom that you, Joe, and apparently Boston talking heads do.

I kind of was going to write this same post.   I think the coaches one in particular is important; rag on McDaniels all you want as a HEAD COACH, but he's one of the best OC's in the game.  I've long said - and anyone in management knows this - that just because you're a good TACTICAL person doesn't mean you're a good STRATEGIC person and vice versa.  Two of Jack Welch's number two's are LEGENDARY in the business world for their work at GE and yet failed miserably, repeatedly, as CEOs themselves (Larry Bossidy most notably).  Just because you're good at one thing doesn't mean you're good at EVERYTHING.

Belichick - even under Brady - was always playing the long game while the PLAYERS played the short game.  He's building something.  That defense is pretty good, overall (led by Belchick's son, go figure). I didn't watch the whole game - phone died; Amazon blows - but holding the Bills offense to 24 points isn't something to sneeze at.  The jury is out on Mac so far, but I don't think he's "average" in terms of his ceiling. 

[King Postwhore]

El Barto.  Just written today. This is being asked by man fans in N.E.   

https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/patriots/the-patriots-have-a-problem-and-its-spelled-b-i-l-l

Proving once again that Boston sports fans are the worst.

Love you too!

I don't want to get rid of BB.  I'd like him to make better decisions with the coaching staff.  The regression of Mac & the offense is proof enough.  When you hear the players complaining in the BB world, something is wrong.

Bill, BB was able to play the long game with the D because he had Brady to cover the inconsistencies in the D and even the O.  He doesn't have that luxury now.

[El Barto]

Brady was pissed he couldn't have his witch doctor, Guerrero on the sidelines and went to Kraft.  Not to fire him but to get his guy back on the sidelines.  It did cause waves with the coaching staff because some of the players were listening to Guerrero over the training staff. And I don't think a 2 year deal is unreasonable for the best QB in the league at that time. $25 million wasn't the highest paid per year in 2017.

There were accounts of a meeting with Kraft where Budchen was highly vocal about the goings on, and the upshot was that they wanted to swap Bills. Perhaps one of those SI feature stories (which they're surprisingly good at). In any case, none of these accounts suggest that Brady was maintaining the team first attitude that made the organization work.

Like I said, Brady had grown resentful of a very long list of things.

And to be fair, I don't hold Bill blameless in this, but at least he was being what he'd always been. BBB was being a whiny little [hypocritical] bitch.

I'd still put up with the bullshit with the greatest QB ever. 

I'm not sure I would. You risk losing the rest of the team, and as great as Brady was, he wasn't great enough to cover for 51 other guys. He's always needed a good team around him to succeed, just like any other QB.

Right now, I'm more worried about how pedestrian the Pats O is and how predictable.  Players now speaking openly about how the other teams know what they are going to run a play.

This is a valid concern. It's not the greatest of them, though. I'm more concerned about the O-line, the mental lapses, and the spectacular drop off in MacCorkle's accuracy. Perfect touch was his strongest suit last year, and this year it's totally gone. The first two are absolutely on the coaching, but the third is on MJ.

I think it's because of the scheming.

I don't. Even when he's got time he's putting the ball high or a tad behind them. There's something off with his mechanics. Last year receivers were getting hit in the hands with balls. Now they're having to adjust for them.

4 of the O-line returned this year so I'd have to look at the OC and line coach.  That's Patricia & Judge. There is a distinct difference from last year.  It's affecting a young QB.  His accuracy is off because he's hearing footsteps these days.  BB should have gotten a real OC.  Look at Bourne.  He was great last year and now, a 3rd down, 3rd receiver.

Something is not right and you have to look at Bill who put this staff together.

Two of those guys are playing decidedly worse, though. Part of it is scheming, but not the incessant penalties they're committing. I didn't think Isaiah Wynn could get worse, but he's taken a huge step back. Trent Brown has also been week, which concerns me a great deal. And yet Onwenu and Andrews (when healthy) are still doing just fine. Strange is just learning, and he'll eventually be fine. I'd be more inclined to put this solely on Judge because he's the position coach.

El Barto.  Just written today. This is being asked by man fans in N.E.   

https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/patriots/the-patriots-have-a-problem-and-its-spelled-b-i-l-l

I'll read the article in a bit, but frankly, I really don't care about what Patriots fans are asking. I wasn't kidding last night. You guys have been so spoiled you've forgotten how bad things can get, and you don't recognize the assets you've got.

[King Postwhore]

For sure.  If Bill isn't here it looks like Denver.  But, he's making glaring mistakes with the 2 coaches on the offensive side, with no experience there with a 2nd year QB.  How many young QB's have we seen never prosper because the go through OC's like water?  Consistency is extremely important to a young QB.  That's the fuss around here all year.

[El Barto]

Man, it took me until recently for me to figure out that Kev was right all along. Patriots fans really are awful. 

I don't consider myself a "Patriots fan" per se, but is Belichick in your eyes above critique?

Of course not. The criticisms should be legit, though, and as you wonderfully demonstrate, as often as not they aren't.

He drives Brady out. Nonsense. Brady's a whiny little bitch. He was gone no matter what.
Believes he only needs an average QB to be successful. Just because you think MacCorkle is average doesn't mean that's how Belichick sees things.
Pads his staff with his kids and kids of his friends. Who've typically done pretty well within the organization.
Hasn't developed any successful coaches. Are you fucking nuts? I guess you mean head coaches after they leave NE. So what? How's that on him? His coaches have typically been excellent.
Puts his offence in the hands of people that have no clue what they're doing. Perhaps, but the verdict's still out for me. I wouldn't rule Patricia out as a decent OC at some point, nor would I rule out a return to O'Brien.

Don't confuse pushing back on your interpretations as me being unwilling to criticize Belichick. There are definitely areas he should be handling better. I just don't see the doom and gloom that you, Joe, and apparently Boston talking heads do.

I kind of was going to write this same post.   I think the coaches one in particular is important; rag on McDaniels all you want as a HEAD COACH, but he's one of the best OC's in the game.  I've long said - and anyone in management knows this - that just because you're a good TACTICAL person doesn't mean you're a good STRATEGIC person and vice versa.  Two of Jack Welch's number two's are LEGENDARY in the business world for their work at GE and yet failed miserably, repeatedly, as CEOs themselves (Larry Bossidy most notably).  Just because you're good at one thing doesn't mean you're good at EVERYTHING.

I don't know what they teach you in business school, but I've always regarded the Peter principle as a failure of management rather than personnel. In this case it reflects on the people who hire Patriots assistants to be head coaches, failing to recognize their respective strengths and weaknesses. I have no Earthly idea how this is a reflection on Belichick.

[El Barto]

For sure.  If Bill isn't here it looks like Denver.  But, he's making glaring mistakes with the 2 coaches on the offensive side, with no experience there with a 2nd year QB.  How many young QB's have we seen never prosper because the go through OC's like water?  Consistency is extremely important to a young QB.  That's the fuss around here all year.

Was that the case when those assholes at Foxboro chanted Zappe and booed MacCorkle off the field? 

[King Postwhore]

Those are the moron fans.  Every City has them.   I have buddies screaming that on Facebook.  It's like the plague.

[pg1067]

El Barto.  Just written today. This is being asked by man fans in N.E.   

https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/patriots/the-patriots-have-a-problem-and-its-spelled-b-i-l-l

Proving once again that Boston sports fans are the worst.

Raiders fans would like a word with you.