Author Topic: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.  (Read 16173 times)

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Offline emtee

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Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« on: March 06, 2022, 05:43:03 AM »
Thursday - Rose from $3.49 to $3.89
Saturday - Double whammy day. First jump $3.99. Second jump $4.08 - $4.18.

Most every location is well over $4 today.

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2022, 06:14:46 AM »
And that's for a gallon, I think?

A gallon is 3,78 liters. Over here it's been rising to €2,20 a liter.

You don't have it that bad over there :)


EDIT: to not make it sound harsh. I mean, yeah, it's a large price jump, but gas is stupidly cheap in the US anyway, compared to other countries.
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Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2022, 06:50:12 AM »
$4.19 a gallon where I'm at

Offline Adami

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2022, 07:02:03 AM »
I'm confident the free market will sort this out in a fair and equitable fashion. It never fails.
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Offline Melphina

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2022, 07:58:49 AM »
And that's for a gallon, I think?

A gallon is 3,78 liters. Over here it's been rising to €2,20 a liter.

You don't have it that bad over there :)


EDIT: to not make it sound harsh. I mean, yeah, it's a large price jump, but gas is stupidly cheap in the US anyway, compared to other countries.

4/gal is not "stupidly cheap" just because it's higher in other countries. This is bad for a whole lot of Americans.

Offline DragonAttack

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2022, 08:13:28 AM »
The market....and greed.....will work this out.  I also remember paying almost $5 a gallon in October of 2008.  We'll get through this.
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Offline Nick

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2022, 08:21:18 AM »
And that's for a gallon, I think?

A gallon is 3,78 liters. Over here it's been rising to €2,20 a liter.

You don't have it that bad over there :)


EDIT: to not make it sound harsh. I mean, yeah, it's a large price jump, but gas is stupidly cheap in the US anyway, compared to other countries.

4/gal is not "stupidly cheap" just because it's higher in other countries. This is bad for a whole lot of Americans.

No, it has always been stupidly cheap in America. Unfortunately we've built an entire economy, transportation system, and base of habits on gas being cheaper than it should be. Now we're behind the 8 ball when faced with prices that are still relatively less than much of the rest of the world.
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Offline T-ski

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2022, 08:21:44 AM »
Go electric!
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Offline Nick

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2022, 08:23:20 AM »
Go electric!

I have, but the greater point is you can't just make that switch on a dime. Tesla basically dragged the country, as much as it could, in that direction. But there is so much they can't do. From electric battery supply chain to charging infrastructure we're so far behind were we could be, Tesla aside. Same for public transportation in many areas.
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Offline Melphina

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2022, 08:56:47 AM »
And that's for a gallon, I think?

A gallon is 3,78 liters. Over here it's been rising to €2,20 a liter.

You don't have it that bad over there :)


EDIT: to not make it sound harsh. I mean, yeah, it's a large price jump, but gas is stupidly cheap in the US anyway, compared to other countries.

4/gal is not "stupidly cheap" just because it's higher in other countries. This is bad for a whole lot of Americans.

No, it has always been stupidly cheap in America. Unfortunately we've built an entire economy, transportation system, and base of habits on gas being cheaper than it should be. Now we're behind the 8 ball when faced with prices that are still relatively less than much of the rest of the world.

If people are struggling to afford gas then it is not cheap. If it can be framed as cheap relative to the rest of the world then it can be framed as expensive for people with very little money already who are getting squeezed further, regardless of how it got to that point. Gas ain't cheap for the common person. That it is cheap compared to other spots in the world is beside the point, respectfully. "Cheap" and "expensive" are relative. A million dollar boat to Jeff Bezos is probably cheap for him.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2022, 09:27:35 AM »
No, it has always been stupidly cheap in America. Unfortunately we've built an entire economy, transportation system, and base of habits on gas being cheaper than it should be.

Who is to say what the price of gas, or anything, should be?
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Offline Harmony

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2022, 10:11:26 AM »
I don't know about you all, but I feel like there is some price gouging going on out there, and not just with fuel prices.

We utilize the 'subscribe and save' option via Amazon for regular purchases such as cat food.  And lately it seems like I get a message that they cannot fill our order and when I search for alternatives the prices are jacked WAY up.  I mean, a 12 pack of cat food used to cost $15-18 bucks and now I'm seeing that same 12 pack being sold for over $50.  It's crazy.

Another thing I've noticed is shipping costs going way up.  I went to purchase a CD directly from the producer of an artist I love and the CD was $11.99 (reasonable) but they wanted almost $10 to ship it to me.  WTF?
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Offline lonestar

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2022, 10:13:43 AM »
I don't know about you all, but I feel like there is some price gouging going on out there, and not just with fuel prices.

We utilize the 'subscribe and save' option via Amazon for regular purchases such as cat food.  And lately it seems like I get a message that they cannot fill our order and when I search for alternatives the prices are jacked WAY up.  I mean, a 12 pack of cat food used to cost $15-18 bucks and now I'm seeing that same 12 pack being sold for over $50.  It's crazy.

Another thing I've noticed is shipping costs going way up.  I went to purchase a CD directly from the producer of an artist I love and the CD was $11.99 (reasonable) but they wanted almost $10 to ship it to me.  WTF?

I bought a shirt from a Japanese artist, and the shipping was almost more than the shirt.

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2022, 10:24:14 AM »
Whenever I try to buy anything coming from the USA, the shipping is always ridiculously expensive.
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Offline Anguyen92

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2022, 11:36:47 AM »
It's been horrifying gas price pain in the OC.  The stations around me is at $5.00 a gallon.  I think I saw some stations at $5.50.  I shudder to think what it would be in LA.  Probably over $6.00.

I bought a shirt from a Japanese artist, and the shipping was almost more than the shirt.

Well, buying stuff from Japan is always expensive.

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2022, 12:26:03 PM »
And that's for a gallon, I think?

A gallon is 3,78 liters. Over here it's been rising to €2,20 a liter.

You don't have it that bad over there :)


EDIT: to not make it sound harsh. I mean, yeah, it's a large price jump, but gas is stupidly cheap in the US anyway, compared to other countries.

4/gal is not "stupidly cheap" just because it's higher in other countries. This is bad for a whole lot of Americans.

No, it has always been stupidly cheap in America. Unfortunately we've built an entire economy, transportation system, and base of habits on gas being cheaper than it should be. Now we're behind the 8 ball when faced with prices that are still relatively less than much of the rest of the world.

If people are struggling to afford gas then it is not cheap. If it can be framed as cheap relative to the rest of the world then it can be framed as expensive for people with very little money already who are getting squeezed further, regardless of how it got to that point. Gas ain't cheap for the common person. That it is cheap compared to other spots in the world is beside the point, respectfully. "Cheap" and "expensive" are relative. A million dollar boat to Jeff Bezos is probably cheap for him.

At any price other than free, some people are going to struggle to afford gas.

The reason in America gas is considered "cheap" is because decades of subsidies and political decisions have made it cheap relative to its true cost. America has also done very little to show the effect of its environmental impact into the cost.

I'm not saying this to be mean to people who struggle to afford it, but we've put ourselves into a system where we build everything on top of suppressed fuel prices and then panic when we aren't prepared to deal with something a little more realistic. And with all faulty systems it is, as usual, the poorest who tend to suffer most.
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Offline Melphina

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2022, 02:14:05 PM »
And that's for a gallon, I think?

A gallon is 3,78 liters. Over here it's been rising to €2,20 a liter.

You don't have it that bad over there :)


EDIT: to not make it sound harsh. I mean, yeah, it's a large price jump, but gas is stupidly cheap in the US anyway, compared to other countries.

4/gal is not "stupidly cheap" just because it's higher in other countries. This is bad for a whole lot of Americans.

No, it has always been stupidly cheap in America. Unfortunately we've built an entire economy, transportation system, and base of habits on gas being cheaper than it should be. Now we're behind the 8 ball when faced with prices that are still relatively less than much of the rest of the world.

If people are struggling to afford gas then it is not cheap. If it can be framed as cheap relative to the rest of the world then it can be framed as expensive for people with very little money already who are getting squeezed further, regardless of how it got to that point. Gas ain't cheap for the common person. That it is cheap compared to other spots in the world is beside the point, respectfully. "Cheap" and "expensive" are relative. A million dollar boat to Jeff Bezos is probably cheap for him.

At any price other than free, some people are going to struggle to afford gas.

The reason in America gas is considered "cheap" is because decades of subsidies and political decisions have made it cheap relative to its true cost. America has also done very little to show the effect of its environmental impact into the cost.

I'm not saying this to be mean to people who struggle to afford it, but we've put ourselves into a system where we build everything on top of suppressed fuel prices and then panic when we aren't prepared to deal with something a little more realistic. And with all faulty systems it is, as usual, the poorest who tend to suffer most.

And you're right - I'm talking about the common man going to the gas station filling up their car. It's expensive. That some people will struggle if it is anything but 'free' is missing my point; I'm not sure what's farfetched about saying gas being over $4/gallon is expensive to the ordinary person. In central IL where I'm from, gas is 4.19 which I've never seen. 4.79 for premium. I've never in my life seen it that high. It's brutal. I feel like maybe we're talking past each other, because I'm not disagreeing with you so much as I am emphasizing the regular Joe's plight in this. EDIT: I figured that's what this thread is about, given the very first post and the thread title...
« Last Edit: March 06, 2022, 02:35:13 PM by Melphina »

Offline El Barto

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2022, 02:46:17 PM »
And that's for a gallon, I think?

A gallon is 3,78 liters. Over here it's been rising to €2,20 a liter.

You don't have it that bad over there :)


EDIT: to not make it sound harsh. I mean, yeah, it's a large price jump, but gas is stupidly cheap in the US anyway, compared to other countries.

4/gal is not "stupidly cheap" just because it's higher in other countries. This is bad for a whole lot of Americans.

No, it has always been stupidly cheap in America. Unfortunately we've built an entire economy, transportation system, and base of habits on gas being cheaper than it should be. Now we're behind the 8 ball when faced with prices that are still relatively less than much of the rest of the world.

If people are struggling to afford gas then it is not cheap. If it can be framed as cheap relative to the rest of the world then it can be framed as expensive for people with very little money already who are getting squeezed further, regardless of how it got to that point. Gas ain't cheap for the common person. That it is cheap compared to other spots in the world is beside the point, respectfully. "Cheap" and "expensive" are relative. A million dollar boat to Jeff Bezos is probably cheap for him.

At any price other than free, some people are going to struggle to afford gas.

The reason in America gas is considered "cheap" is because decades of subsidies and political decisions have made it cheap relative to its true cost. America has also done very little to show the effect of its environmental impact into the cost.

I'm not saying this to be mean to people who struggle to afford it, but we've put ourselves into a system where we build everything on top of suppressed fuel prices and then panic when we aren't prepared to deal with something a little more realistic. And with all faulty systems it is, as usual, the poorest who tend to suffer most.

And you're right - I'm talking about the common man going to the gas station filling up their car. It's expensive. That some people will struggle if it is anything but 'free' is missing my point; I'm not sure what's farfetched about saying gas being over $4/gallon is expensive to the ordinary person. In central IL where I'm from, gas is 4.19 which I've never seen. 4.79 for premium. I've never in my life seen it that high. It's brutal. I feel like maybe we're talking past each other, because I'm not disagreeing with you so much as I am emphasizing the regular Joe's plight in this. EDIT: I figured that's what this thread is about, given the very first post and the thread title...
I think the moral of the story is that the common man has been getting a free ride up until now. And the fact that some could afford gas last week and can't now doesn't really mean a whole lot. Mr. Burns can still afford gas, and Cletus probably couldn't buy a gallon 2 weeks ago. In this case it becomes a problem because Homer and Marge can't afford it. The "common man" thing is really just a function of where you put your mark on the continuum, and the tendency is to stake it close to where we reside.

Also, for some of us are old enough to remember not only when prices were this high, but when you could only get gas on odd or even days based on your license plate number and lines were still around the block. 
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Offline TAC

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2022, 02:55:01 PM »

Also, for some of us are old enough to remember not only when prices were this high, but when you could only get gas on odd or even days based on your license plate number and lines were still around the block.

And people crawling up behind your car to siphon it out. I remember having a locking gas cap.
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Offline Melphina

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2022, 02:57:43 PM »
I think the moral of the story is that the common man has been getting a free ride up until now. And the fact that some could afford gas last week and can't now doesn't really mean a whole lot. Mr. Burns can still afford gas, and Cletus probably couldn't buy a gallon 2 weeks ago. In this case it becomes a problem because Homer and Marge can't afford it. The "common man" thing is really just a function of where you put your mark on the continuum, and the tendency is to stake it close to where we reside.

Also, for some of us are old enough to remember not only when prices were this high, but when you could only get gas on odd or even days based on your license plate number and lines were still around the block.

Well, no? I see what you're saying, but it's been burdensome for Marge and Homer for a long time, and now it's getting worse. Not to do some intellectual sparring or pondering over semantics, but I don't think it's accurate to call it a free ride if it's been a real problem, just because the price is lower compared to its true cost, yeah? That's all I've been saying, since it was initially called cheap (again, cheap is relative, and we've been discussing why and why not it could be considered 'cheap' depending on how you frame the discussion). Not trying to be confrontational, fyi.

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2022, 03:14:42 PM »
Okay, so while the average income in my countries is apparently slightly higher than in the US (I had to look it up; around 40k to around 33k), it's not twice as high which is the difference in gas costs.

https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/gasoline_prices/

^ Look at where USA stands compared to the rest of the countries on that list. It actually gets a mention in the opening paragraph!
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2022, 03:19:49 PM »

Also, for some of us are old enough to remember not only when prices were this high, but when you could only get gas on odd or even days based on your license plate number and lines were still around the block.

And people crawling up behind your car to siphon it out. I remember having a locking gas cap.
And then the gas caps became so expensive that for some of us the cap was more valuable that the gas it "protected." Stadler and anybody else who recognizes this knows what I mean.  :lol

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Offline El Barto

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2022, 03:36:01 PM »
Not trying to be confrontational, fyi.
And you're not. Pleasant and civil discussion.

Quote
Well, no? I see what you're saying, but it's been burdensome for Marge and Homer for a long time, and now it's getting worse. Not to do some intellectual sparring or pondering over semantics, but I don't think it's accurate to call it a free ride if it's been a real problem, just because the price is lower compared to its true cost, yeah? That's all I've been saying, since it was initially called cheap (again, cheap is relative, and we've been discussing why and why not it could be considered 'cheap' depending on how you frame the discussion).
Well, just because it could have been worse for the Simpson family doesn't mean that they haven't been getting a free ride. Technically, it should have been worse for them.

And while I hate playing the pro-capitalist stooge, I'll give it a go in this instance. Perhaps if the Simpson clan had been paying the actual cost of gas based on its value all this time, they'd have made decisions that would lessen this impact. Homer's car's pretty big, and Marge's Canyonnaro should be right out. Maybe they'd live closer to the SNPP. Maybe they'd put Grampa in a cheaper home. They were getting a bargain on their gas and assumed it would go on forever. All bubbles break.

And therein lies the problem. We've had gas crunches and shortages before. The last one wasn't too terribly long ago. People bitch and moan about it but do precious little to insulate themselves. I think that's where American entitlement kicks in. We treat relatively cheap gas as something we deserve, and we expect our government to make sure it happens. Rather than buying smaller cars, or driving less, most people would will just wait and vote for the other guy since he'll "make sure" such drastic measures aren't necessary, ignoring the ugly truth that it's mostly just cyclical. 
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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2022, 05:04:37 PM »
Nick, unfortunately, America's infrastructure is not conducive for trains,  taxi's ect. Especially where I live.

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Offline Stadler

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2022, 06:52:50 AM »
Another thing I've noticed is shipping costs going way up.  I went to purchase a CD directly from the producer of an artist I love and the CD was $11.99 (reasonable) but they wanted almost $10 to ship it to me.  WTF?

This is where the fuel prices become an issue.  Sure, it's "cheap" compared to the rest of the world, but the rest of the world isn't subsidizing our infrastructure.

I know (and have worked for) companies that make millions and millions of dollars in saving the railroads 1/10 of a mile per gallon on fuel costs across their fleet.  Why?  Because 1/10th of a mph across 60,000 locomotives, traveling millions of miles annually adds up pretty damn quick.  And the rail freight business is what ultimately drives our economy (there are those who claim our economy can be accurately predicted by the transport of paper goods by rail alone, simply because it's a harbinger of future purchases and shipments).  Add to that the freight moved by air - with the same issues and concerns - and even a modest increase in fuel prices can resonate dramatically.  There might be gouging at the pump for consumers - I know where I live, I have seen radically different prices, by as much as $0.25 per gallon, at gas stations only a mile or so apart on the same road - but that's not so much a concern on the wholesale side.

We - the U.S. - are the largest oil producer in the world.  We account for something like 20% of the world's oil production and yet, we seem beholden to forces that we shouldn't necessarily be beholden to.  I'm a free market guy, but even I will tell you that sometimes the TIMING of the free market isn't what it should be.  If there's ever a time for government intervention in the markets, it's to change the impact of time on the process. We allow this in healthcare, so that people (in theory) don't have to save up or use credit to garner preventative services (that's the idea; I'm not here in this thread to discuss the imperfections of that theory).  Why wouldn't we do that here?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2022, 07:01:03 AM by Stadler »

Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2022, 07:03:59 AM »
Up from $4.19 to $4.45 this morning where I'm at

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2022, 07:08:07 AM »
We are still sub $4.00/gallon in a lot of places around here (Raleigh/Garner, NC), but a few places are over that mark.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2022, 07:08:15 AM »
Groton CT this morning:

Offline pg1067

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2022, 10:12:09 AM »
Over the weekend, I saw all prices over $5 per gallon, and a couple stations had the 91 octane stuff over $6 per gallon.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2022, 10:59:23 AM »
Filled up yesterday in NJ, don't recall exactly the price but it was ~$4.30

This sucks as a daily commuter, but it's not the end of the world.  IMO, raising this price to stop funding Putin is worth it albeit I honestly don't know how any of this works to actually claim this is helping in some way.

I just have to file it under "things I can't change" and not let it affect me too much.  Luckily, I guess, it's because I can afford it so while my bank account takes another hit (along with the general inflation) getting upset about it only makes it even worse.

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2022, 11:00:26 AM »
Not trying to be confrontational, fyi.
And you're not. Pleasant and civil discussion.

Quote
Well, no? I see what you're saying, but it's been burdensome for Marge and Homer for a long time, and now it's getting worse. Not to do some intellectual sparring or pondering over semantics, but I don't think it's accurate to call it a free ride if it's been a real problem, just because the price is lower compared to its true cost, yeah? That's all I've been saying, since it was initially called cheap (again, cheap is relative, and we've been discussing why and why not it could be considered 'cheap' depending on how you frame the discussion).
Well, just because it could have been worse for the Simpson family doesn't mean that they haven't been getting a free ride. Technically, it should have been worse for them.

And while I hate playing the pro-capitalist stooge, I'll give it a go in this instance. Perhaps if the Simpson clan had been paying the actual cost of gas based on its value all this time, they'd have made decisions that would lessen this impact. Homer's car's pretty big, and Marge's Canyonnaro should be right out. Maybe they'd live closer to the SNPP. Maybe they'd put Grampa in a cheaper home. They were getting a bargain on their gas and assumed it would go on forever. All bubbles break.

And therein lies the problem. We've had gas crunches and shortages before. The last one wasn't too terribly long ago. People bitch and moan about it but do precious little to insulate themselves. I think that's where American entitlement kicks in. We treat relatively cheap gas as something we deserve, and we expect our government to make sure it happens. Rather than buying smaller cars, or driving less, most people would will just wait and vote for the other guy since he'll "make sure" such drastic measures aren't necessary, ignoring the ugly truth that it's mostly just cyclical.

You rang?   :) :) :)

But you have it right in that last paragraph.   My step son just went through this a couple months ago; he's driving an hour each way to work, and was moaning about money and I had this very conversation with him.  You drive a 2016 Chevy full size extended cab pickup; what the fuck did you expect?  He ended up selling that - at a premium, because car prices were through the roof at that point - and bought a VW diesel.  As I (hoped) to get across in my previous post, I'm less inclined to feel bad for people who can't spell E-P-A and M-P-G than I am for the other, hidden aspects of our economy that are also impact by fuel prices.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2022, 11:45:48 AM »
People bitch and moan about it but do precious little to insulate themselves. I think that's where American entitlement kicks in. We treat relatively cheap gas as something we deserve, and we expect our government to make sure it happens.

Entitlement is part of it, but also ignorance.  I say that as someone who knew the gas in the US was cheap, but has no understanding why it's like that.  Many Americans haven't driven in Europe to know how much more expensive it is over there (or elsewhere outside the US). 

Offline emtee

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2022, 04:05:25 AM »
$4.29 this morning. Good times.

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2022, 04:19:17 AM »
Also in Italy prices are skyrocketing, and I don't expect them to ever come back down anytime soon.

Fun fact: there's a weird and obscure way in Italy to increase fuel's prices, a sort of mini, microscopic tax that gets added to the price of fuel when a contingency happens. You'd expect that, with the contingency gone, the mini tax would be removed, but no, so the price of fuel and gas STILL includes these "mini taxes" for the Etiopia war of 1935, the Florence flood of 1966, and so on.

So yeah, we're still paying a little bit tiny more of fuel because 90 years ago the fascist regime invaded an african nation (plus some earthquakes, natural disasters and the Suez crisis of 1963 as well (thank you England and Egypt I guess).
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Offline Chino

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Re: Ouch! Gas And Other Inflation Related Pain.
« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2022, 06:54:40 AM »
Everything is getting more expensive, yet for some reason the price of beef short ribs has fallen almost $2lb in the last two weeks  :metal Things are looking up people!