Author Topic: The Batman (non-spoiler review) - edited after second viewing on 3/6  (Read 5408 times)

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Offline Samsara

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So here is my non-spoiler (if you've seen the previews) of The Batman:

The hype was legit – Matt Reeves has delivered a Batman film unlike any other in the character's 80+ year existence.

The Batman is a gritty film, with a 1970s flavor, ala Todd Phillips' The Joker. But The Batman is a detective story through and through, centered on stopping The Riddler from killing corrupt public officials and other bad seeds in Gotham City. It's hard to describe without spoiling the movie. But there are multiple threads that converge and it takes all of the three-hour running time to do it.

Here are some of my highlights:

Robert Pattinson as Batman – I never once thought he wasn't Batman. There was never a slip where I felt he was anyone other than the Dark Knight while in the costume. He's a violent Batman and had some incredible fight scenes and detective work.

Paul Dano as Riddler – Absolutely stunning performance. I can't say much, because if I mention things, I'll ruin it. Suffice it to say, he was as advertised.

Jeffrey Wright as Gordon – He was a perfect fit for the character, and he played him not unlike Gary Oldman did in the Dark Knight Trilogy. Which is a compliment.

The Batmobile – without spoiling it, yes, there is a massive car scene (you saw it in the trailers), and the ride is PERFECT for this particular film. It works. But what I also like is they didn't overuse the Batmobile.

The story – Once The Dark Knight Rises came out, I remember saying that if they did a fourth film, they should make Riddler darker and a serial killer. Well, Matt Reeves did just that. The story is complex, weaving clues, the killings and all sorts of threads that Batman, Gordon, and Alfred piece together. Very well written, although there is something I'll get to that I think could have made it better.

Some things I'm not as fond of:

The Catwoman story thread – as I mentioned above, there was one piece of the story that I think could have been edited out. There was really no need for Catwoman. Don't get me wrong, Zoe Kravitz was excellent. And there IS a reason for her character. But I felt like they put Catwoman in just to put Catwoman in. The story could have been tighter had they simply eliminated Catwoman and had a young woman in her place. There have been a lot of Batman-Catwoman stories over the past several years regarding their relationship and them getting close. Matt Reeves tells the story of those beginnings here. I just think it wasn't necessary given the rest of the movie. The....plot point... involving Catwoman could easily be served without it being Catwoman. And that's all I can really say.

Robert Pattinson as Bruce Wayne – it's hard to like Bruce Wayne in this movie. There's a reason, this is a Bruce Wayne who is more of a loner who doesn't put up an act that he's a playboy. He's a total recluse. And given where the movie went (I need to be careful here to avoid spoilers), there's a maturation process, and I am sure in future films, I'll like him better. But his look and attitude were just “eh” to me.

3/6 comments after seeing it a second time -- I don't feel as strongly about Bruce Wayne's portrayal after seeing it it again. I still don't like the look, but once I saw it in Imax and just focused on things, I see what Reeves was doing more clearly.

Editing – a couple of times I really felt like something was edited out that should have continued. Scenes where there was clearly more and then it jumped to something new. If the “Bat and the Cat” thread wasn't there, I really feel like it may have enabled Reeves to let those scenes play out, instead of what he likely did in cutting them short.


3/6 - I COMPLETELY changed my opinion of the editing after the second viewing. It seemed to flow a LOT better. Thus the strikethrough, but keeping it there.

REVISED Grade (on 3.6): A-
Overall Grade: B+

A very welcome return to a darker, more realistic take on Batman. Appropriate nods to the character's past, some timely social commentary woven throughout, and an enjoyable detective story. This film is certainly worth your time and Paul Dano's work as The Riddler is absolutely riveting.

Some other letter grades for comparison:

Batman '89 - A
Batman Returns - B-
Batman Forever - B
Batman and Robin - F
Batman Begins - A
The Dark Knight - A+
The Dark Knight Rises - A-
Batman vs. Superman - C
(I won't rate Justice League or Snyder's Cut of JL because they weren't "Batman" films - BvS was close enough)

edit:

I should add that if you really want a sense of why Bruce/Batman and Edward/The Riddler are where they are, the prequel novella really helps give that background: https://www.amazon.com/Before-Batman-Original-Movie-Novel/dp/B09J1QXHMC/ref=sr_1_1?crid=SSCHU38IUYPJ&keywords=The+Batman+novel&qid=1646324521&sprefix=the+batman+novel%2Caps%2C163&sr=8-1
« Last Edit: March 06, 2022, 07:50:30 PM by Samsara »
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review)
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2022, 08:34:46 AM »
Got my IMAX tix with jingle.son for 11am Sunday morning.
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Offline Adami

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review)
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2022, 08:36:07 AM »
Got my IMAX tix with jingle.son for 11am Sunday morning.

Not going this weekend. Got tickets for next Sunday.

God damn New York Imax costs me over 50 bucks for two tickets. Ugh!
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review)
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2022, 08:40:42 AM »
Got my IMAX tix with jingle.son for 11am Sunday morning.

Not going this weekend. Got tickets for next Sunday.

God damn New York Imax costs me over 50 bucks for two tickets. Ugh!

$40CAD here
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Offline Adami

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review)
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2022, 08:44:51 AM »
Got my IMAX tix with jingle.son for 11am Sunday morning.

Not going this weekend. Got tickets for next Sunday.

God damn New York Imax costs me over 50 bucks for two tickets. Ugh!

$40CAD here

Sorry. I should have clarified, 50 REAL dollars.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review)
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2022, 09:16:54 AM »
Thanks for the review, Samsara.  TBH, I had seen some great reviews of the film, but I wanted to see what you thought.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review)
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2022, 09:26:42 AM »
Thanks for the review, Samsara.  TBH, I had seen some great reviews of the film, but I wanted to see what you thought.

Thanks. Yeah, totally worth the three hours. I put up my other film rankings so you can see generally how I view things, so my letter grade is in context.

Oh and for those folks with kids - it's PG-13, close to R. I know people differ on what's appropriate, but my wife probably said it best - if your kid is old enough for the violence/scariness of Stranger Things and did okay with that, they will likely be okay with The Batman. There is a lot of violence, and there is blood, but it's not a horror movie. But the vibe is dark and ominous, and the music heightens the fear. Just FYI if anyone is considering bringing their young Bat-fans.
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Offline King Postwhore

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review)
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2022, 10:00:27 AM »
Got my IMAX tix with jingle.son for 11am Sunday morning.

Same at Noon with the family.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review)
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2022, 10:15:42 AM »
$46 REAL dollars for my kid and her boyfriend to see the IMAX version in Dallas.

Offline Adami

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review)
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2022, 10:22:42 AM »
$46 REAL dollars for my kid and her boyfriend to see the IMAX version in Dallas.

Well, apparently my fiancee and I are each worth two dollars more than your kid and her boyfriend.

BOOYA!
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Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review)
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2022, 10:28:01 AM »
Gonna see it monday. Looking forward to it

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review)
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2022, 10:30:25 AM »
Got my IMAX tix with jingle.son for 11am Sunday morning.

Not going this weekend. Got tickets for next Sunday.

God damn New York Imax costs me over 50 bucks for two tickets. Ugh!

$40CAD here

Sorry. I should have clarified, 50 REAL dollars.

Ok, so I'm paying $32 of your "real" dollars.   :P
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Offline King Postwhore

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review)
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2022, 10:56:08 AM »
Wow.  I-Max 2 D for 7 Adults and 1 child was $120.50 for us.  A bargain!
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Offline Zoom E

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review)
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2022, 11:51:07 PM »
I saw the Batman today. Like Samsara said, it has an old-school detective movie feel. Kind of a slow burn. I enjoyed it but found it overlong at 3 hours.

Offline Zantera

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review)
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2022, 03:12:16 AM »
Really great. Possibly even the best Batman movie so far. I can see an argument for the length but I think The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises have the same problem. Pattinson was great, this version of Gotham was a lot better than the Nolan and Snyder ones, Dano as the Riddler was fantastic and we finally got a Batman doing detective stuff!

Offline Melphina

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review)
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2022, 07:14:07 AM »
This might be the best Batman ever. I can't stop gushing about how good this film is. It is long, but I loved it. I'm gonna see it a few more times. There is so much I want to talk about. Spoilers below.

For the comic fans who know more than me, what kind of villains could have a reasonable chance of appearing in sequels? I only know the villains from the films and we've now had Riddler, Penguin, and Bane twice, we've had Joker a bunch of times, there's been Scarecrow and Poison Ivy and Mr. Freeze - but would PI and Freeze even work in this setting, even if you tried to make them more grounded? As soon as I saw Gotham flooding, and Batman said it was November 6th, I immediately thought of a sequel involving Penguin since he's still alive - and Mr. Freeze. It could be the heart of winter and Freeze takes full advantage of a flooded city, but I don't know if that could work as well as a Penguin or Riddler or Joker, and I would like to learn about more of Batman's villains - only comics I read are Spider-man, that's where my expertise is focused.

Offline Zantera

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review)
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2022, 12:47:41 PM »
This might be the best Batman ever. I can't stop gushing about how good this film is. It is long, but I loved it. I'm gonna see it a few more times. There is so much I want to talk about. Spoilers below.

For the comic fans who know more than me, what kind of villains could have a reasonable chance of appearing in sequels? I only know the villains from the films and we've now had Riddler, Penguin, and Bane twice, we've had Joker a bunch of times, there's been Scarecrow and Poison Ivy and Mr. Freeze - but would PI and Freeze even work in this setting, even if you tried to make them more grounded? As soon as I saw Gotham flooding, and Batman said it was November 6th, I immediately thought of a sequel involving Penguin since he's still alive - and Mr. Freeze. It could be the heart of winter and Freeze takes full advantage of a flooded city, but I don't know if that could work as well as a Penguin or Riddler or Joker, and I would like to learn about more of Batman's villains - only comics I read are Spider-man, that's where my expertise is focused.

I've heard in interviews them talking about introducing Court of Owls but also taking a stab at Mr. Freeze. The latter could be cool because similar to The Riddler, it would be nice to get a redemption arc and not have the first thing you think of about the character be Arnold making ice puns.  :lol

I'm curious how long they can hold off with the Joker though, I mean technically we already got him in this, even if just for a short cameo. On one hand we've had so many jokers now that I fully embrace focusing on other villains, but on the other hand he's such a good villain (and the perfect counter to Batman) that it's almost criminal to ignore him. Assuming they do get to make at least a trilogy maybe keep him in the shadows until the final one and go out with a bang.

Offline Melphina

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review)
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2022, 01:01:03 PM »
I was wondering if they'd try to do some kind of Batman villain ensemble film, not quite the Sinister Six but like Spiderman No Way Home. I think if the sequel takes place immediately after the flood, and it's winter, it could be the perfect chance to make Penguin the villain where he takes advantage of the aforementioned 'power grab' and gets the iconic top hat etc. + have Mr. Freeze along for the ride, just do for his character what Paul Dano did for The Riddler.

Offline Polarbear

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review)
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2022, 01:02:28 PM »
Chris Nolans Batman trilogy is still my favorite comic book adaptation after all these years, so I could not help but to compare this to those films.

While this film is obviously inspired by the Nolan films, it does stand on it's own! I really liked this film! :tup

I really liked how this movie focused on the detective side of batman, and I don't think anyone is still doubting Rob Pattinson in the lead role. He is The Batman!

Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review)
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2022, 06:07:10 PM »
Really liked it. A little early but I'd probably put it behind TDK, BB, the Burton films and maybe TDKR.

Offline lonestar

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review)
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2022, 01:04:56 AM »
Outstanding film, really didn't notice the length to be honest, it really got me into it. Loved the noir feel to it, good performances by the principals, especially Riddler, and great cinematography. Really hard to compare it to any other batman films, it's such a different approach. I gotta stop going to the late showings though, I keep dozing off, especially with that somber score throughout. :lol

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review)
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2022, 01:00:06 PM »
No actress could follow Michelle Pfeiffer’s Catwoman so it really is kind of pointless.

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review)
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2022, 03:28:52 PM »
I notice the length but for different reasons.   20 minutes left to the movie and the fire alarm goes off.  40 minutes outside. No gas leak. Running joke was I would find a not addressed to me. Lol

We get back in and it takes 1/2 hour to calibrate the I Max film to play from where we left off. 

5 hours in total.
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review)
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2022, 04:11:53 PM »
Caught the first showing this morning at my local Regal, 11:30am for a matinee ticket. After ads and seven movie trailers, the film started and while I was eager to see this film, I haven't been itching with excitement to see it right away (as some times I even ask off work for big film premiers on Thursday nights).

I've got to say, this film had my attention almost immediately and held it throughout its entire runtime. Everything felt captivating, and Giacchino's score was as much of a character of the film as any of the actors and their performances. But I do have to say that Pattinson really sold me on his Bruce AND Batman. The Penguin was brilliant, and not overly comical in appearance or performance, but hokey enough to retain the idea of him. Catwoman was really well done, and I enjoyed her scenes quite a bit. Special props to John Turturro as Falcone, who was pretty menacing for what we got of him.

For everyone talking about Mr. Freeze coming in for the sequel, Matt Reeves has said that he would like to do a more grounded version of the character for the next film, so I think we may see a Penguin/Freeze team-up for the sequel, and probably a return of Riddler and his new friend, the "Unnamed Arkham Prisoner".

It's easily a 9.5/10 for me, though I definitely want to watch it again before I really solidify that score. Easily one of the best comic book films in the last 20 years, and probably my favorite rendition of Batman on screen. Seeing such a young, imperfect Batman really helps sell the realism of him. He's not a perfect fighter, or a truly great detective yet, but he's learning, and he's already got a growing rogues gallery, so if they make this a trilogy, there's a LOT they can do here.

I mean, they're already making spin-offs featuring Penguin and Gordon, so DC and WB are really invested in this universe, so I'm here for it! I may have to bite the bullet and finally get an HBO Max subscription soon!

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Offline The Realm

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review)
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2022, 04:46:10 PM »
I loved this movie and am really keen to see it again. The cinematography and overall style, the music, the acting were all top notch. One of the things I loved the most was that it was all about Batman - he was in most of the movie.


Offline Samsara

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review) - edited after second viewing on 3/6
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2022, 07:52:56 PM »
Just got back from my second viewing of the film, this time in IMAX. I revised my grade up to an A-. I'm still lukewarm on "The Bat and the Cat" and still don't dig Pattinson's Bruce Wayne LOOK, but it flowed much better for me the second time around.

Still not in the same ballpark as The Dark Knight, Batman '89 or even Batman Begins. But it's on par for me with The Dark Knight Rises (albeit for different reasons).

Really great film, and I think the sequel will be even better.
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Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review) - edited after second viewing on 3/6
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2022, 01:53:12 PM »
My feelings are mixed on it. I swear if it was like 2 hours or slightly over, then I would have loved it, but I for sure felt that 3 hour length.

Length aside, my only other issue is the Riddler chewed the scenery a little too much in places, but I thought that overall a cool version of the character. I would have liked him to be a little more subdued.

Besides that, I loved what they created for the world, the atmosphere and their vision for batman and Gothem. Also, there's a soft spot in my heart for the Batman/Catwoman dynamic so its nice to see that once again.

And this right here is definitely one of my favorite shots in any Batman film


« Last Edit: March 07, 2022, 02:41:11 PM by Phoenix87x »

Offline Orbert

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review) - edited after second viewing on 3/6
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2022, 04:23:44 PM »
How does this film fit in with the DC film universe?  Or is that not really a consideration here?

Offline The Letter M

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review) - edited after second viewing on 3/6
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2022, 04:45:23 PM »
How does this film fit in with the DC film universe?  Or is that not really a consideration here?

This is a stand-alone film in its own universe apart from the greater DCEU/DC Extended Universe that includes the other DC films being released this year (Black Adam, The Flash, and Aquaman 2).

The Batman will have 2 spin-off series coming, featuring The Penguin in one, and the Gotham City PD (and Jim Gordon) in the other one.

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Offline MinistroRaven

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review) - edited after second viewing on 3/6
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2022, 04:37:04 PM »
Loved this one.
Bale’s Batman still my favorite, but this one is really, REALLY good.
I didn’t have hope for Pattinson but he delivered a strong performance!
I would rate it 8.5/10 it’s not a 10 as I think the movie could have been shorter. I’ll see it again next week.

Offline Samsara

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review) - edited after second viewing on 3/6
« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2022, 12:23:35 PM »

The Batman will have 2 spin-off series coming, featuring The Penguin in one, and the Gotham City PD (and Jim Gordon) in the other one.

-Marc.

Some folks here know I'm an uber Bat-geek, collector, and a Bat-historian as well. I have to say, I'm of two minds on this. On one hand, it's cool that the 'standalone universe' that The Batman sits in is being expanded. There are rich stories to tell.

Gotham Central, which was an INCREDIBLE comic run that focuses on on the Gotham City PD, and only has a handful of Batman cameos, is riveting and one of my favorite runs of all time. The rogues gallery appears, but the story focuses on the GCPD and how it handles some of the seriousness of the villains and the detectives' personal issues. For example, first scene, two detectives, who are partners, are going off-shift, but get a call. They go up to an apartment where Mr. Freeze is there, and Freeze shoots and freezes one of them, killing him. And it's gritty.

I thought the old "GOTHAM" series was going that direction, and it did a little before being sidetracked into some more campy stuff, and then of course got rushed its final season and they wrapped it up. Some great performances in that show though. So I'm hoping this second bite of the apple may get it more in-line with Gotham Central.

As for a standalone on The Penguin - I guess it will be okay? I mean, there are tons of cops shows, and they are doing this one on GCPD, and there are tons of crime lord shows, and they are doing one here with the Penguin. I mean, it's COOL, but I'm worried about all these shows just...flooding the market with TOO MUCH Bat-stuff.

I guess we'll find out. I'm looking forward to checking it all out, but with The Batman, the spin-offs, and then the other DC extended universe things, etc., it's just a lot.

Nolan's trilogy was the Batman franchise I had wanted ever since I was a 13-year old seeing Keaton's Batman in 89. I wanted a realistic, darker, more serious Batman. And 16 years later, Nolan delivered with Batman Begins - The Dark Knight - The Dark Knight Rises. So everything else is gravy. But that trilogy, particularly The Dark Knight, is the absolute gold standard. And we can't really help but compare, ya know?

But I am really happy The Batman has done well, and I enjoyed it for what it is.

What I really want, however, is Robin to be introduced, and killed. A modified version of the "A Death in the Family" storyline. I remember being a kid and buying that run of comics from my local 7-11. I called the number voting to save Robin's life (I am a firm Batman needs a Robin fan). When he was killed, and that image, is shocking. The animated portrayals are good, but this is screaming for a live action version. I hope that Matt Reeves can find a way to do it in his new Batman world.
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Offline SeRoX

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review) - edited after second viewing on 3/6
« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2022, 02:45:20 PM »
I'm really glad that new film shows human side of a super hero with all weakness and emotions. I really like that idea and it displays nicely.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review) - edited after second viewing on 3/6
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2022, 11:40:57 AM »
Where does everyone put Pattinson in the pantheon of actors that have portrayed Batman?

I haven't seen the new one, so I'm out, but I still like Affleck the best, believe it or not.  He had that sort of same feel as the Batmen I grew up with (drawn by Jim Aparo and Don Newton).  Bale is up there, as is Keaton.

Offline Adami

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review) - edited after second viewing on 3/6
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2022, 11:45:56 AM »
Where does everyone put Pattinson in the pantheon of actors that have portrayed Batman?

I haven't seen the new one, so I'm out, but I still like Affleck the best, believe it or not.  He had that sort of same feel as the Batmen I grew up with (drawn by Jim Aparo and Don Newton).  Bale is up there, as is Keaton.

It's really hard. Mostly cause I hate ranking things, but I really liked him. He's playing a very different Batman/Bruce Wayne than Affleck, Keaton or Bale. So it's hard to compare, since they're not trying to accomplish the same thing, you know?

But I thought he did a really good job as a Batman who would suffer being Bruce Wayne when necessary.
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Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: The Batman (non-spoiler review) - edited after second viewing on 3/6
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2022, 12:05:42 PM »
I liked Pattinson overall in general, but I think he nailed what they were going for with the tone of this film.