Author Topic: The "A View from the Top of the World tour is awesome!" thread (spoilers)  (Read 28091 times)

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Offline TheBarstoolWarrior

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With this tour clocking in at around 2 hours, and even the DOT/Scenes tour being shorter than a usual Evening With, are shorter sets likely to be the norm for DT going forward?

It could be. These guys aren't young. JR is senior citizen and MM and JLB are almost 60. Tour life means you are constantly on the move and having your sleep schedule messed up. It's gotta be hard especially when you consider the nature of the music they're playing. I would not be surprised if shorter shows are the norm.

Offline hunnus2000

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With this tour clocking in at around 2 hours, and even the DOT/Scenes tour being shorter than a usual Evening With, are shorter sets likely to be the norm for DT going forward?

It could be. These guys aren't young. JR is senior citizen and MM and JLB are almost 60. Tour life means you are constantly on the move and having your sleep schedule messed up. It's gotta be hard especially when you consider the nature of the music they're playing. I would not be surprised if shorter shows are the norm.

Question - when a band brings an opening act on tour, does that opening act share the expenses such as for union work or even hotel fees etc..?

Offline Madman Shepherd

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With this tour clocking in at around 2 hours, and even the DOT/Scenes tour being shorter than a usual Evening With, are shorter sets likely to be the norm for DT going forward?

It could be. These guys aren't young. JR is senior citizen and MM and JLB are almost 60. Tour life means you are constantly on the move and having your sleep schedule messed up. It's gotta be hard especially when you consider the nature of the music they're playing. I would not be surprised if shorter shows are the norm.

Question - when a band brings an opening act on tour, does that opening act share the expenses such as for union work or even hotel fees etc..?

Usually they are paid a flat fee and have to figure everything else out on their own.

Occasionally opening bands will be offered more and even get to share a tour bus with the headlining band but that's relatively rare and usually when they're already established friends.

Offline jammindude

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I don’t have any inside knowledge, but I would imagine that everything “on site” (I.e. everything that is already at the gig…the venue, stage hands, on-site catering etc etc) has already been taken care of. But as far as your personal accommodations you would have to take care of that yourself. You would probably have to pay your own stage hands to get your setup the way you want it…but just like any dive bar, the on hand sound guy would give you your levels during warm ups.
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Offline TAC

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Show in Bilbao is cancelled.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline goo-goo

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With this tour clocking in at around 2 hours, and even the DOT/Scenes tour being shorter than a usual Evening With, are shorter sets likely to be the norm for DT going forward?

It could be. These guys aren't young. JR is senior citizen and MM and JLB are almost 60. Tour life means you are constantly on the move and having your sleep schedule messed up. It's gotta be hard especially when you consider the nature of the music they're playing. I would not be surprised if shorter shows are the norm.

Question - when a band brings an opening act on tour, does that opening act share the expenses such as for union work or even hotel fees etc..?

This depends on the main act (if they want to pay the support act or not and pay for the accommodations or not). If not, then band pays for everything, except what's on site (stage hands, catering, etc).  A well established band like DT would probably pay at least for the accommodations and maybe the support act. The opening band usually gets paid in "exposure" by supporting the main act. Kscope (Tesseract) and Inside Out (Dream Theater and Devin Townsend) are decent labels and probably help the smaller bands with some touring support.

Offline javidt

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And now they're cancelling concerts in Europe only one week in advance. I'd love to know what are the logistical issues....it seems like they're not selling enough tickets. It's a pity.

Offline jadiggerdt

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And now they're cancelling concerts in Europe only one week in advance. I'd love to know what are the logistical issues....it seems like they're not selling enough tickets. It's a pity.

Afraid there is a lack of ticket sales yes, if you look at ticketmaster then it is probably disappointing ticket sales, how many were in London on Saturday? 4-5000?

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Question - when a band brings an opening act on tour, does that opening act share the expenses such as for union work or even hotel fees etc..?
This depends on the main act (if they want to pay the support act or not and pay for the accommodations or not). If not, then band pays for everything, except what's on site (stage hands, catering, etc).  A well established band like DT would probably pay at least for the accommodations and maybe the support act. The opening band usually gets paid in "exposure" by supporting the main act. Kscope (Tesseract) and Inside Out (Dream Theater and Devin Townsend) are decent labels and probably help the smaller bands with some touring support.
Things may be different now, but apparently when MP was involved and they did the Prog Nation tours, DT covered all the expenses of the opening acts. Here's an excerpt of an interview I did with MP at the end of the North American leg of PN09:
Quote
SH: Gotcha. In the last interview I read in the New Voice fanzine, you had mentioned wanting to make ProgNation a 5-band festival bill, and yet both the North American and European tours feature 4 bands.
MP: Once again, it’s another – mainly financial – logistical nightmare. At the start of this tour, in all the meetings I had with our booking agent, I was pushing for a 5-band thing that would start at 3 in the afternoon. And once again, there’s just so many behind the scenes reasons why those things are so much harder to implement than they appear on paper. Adding a fifth band on this tour is another bus, another 10 people you have to feed each day at catering – we pay for all the catering. Then there’s all the union fees – that means that load-in is gonna have to be that much earlier, the local hands at every show… It just gets harder and harder and harder, the more bands you have on the bill. There’s a million reasons why it is difficult. And believe me, my agent and my manager were trying to make Progressive Nation 3 bands. I put my foot down and said it’s gotta be at least four. I mean the Queensr˙che show in Maryland was a one-off example, but it’s a very big expense to do a tour like that. To be honest with you, this is the first tour in a very long time where we’re not making money – we’re breaking even. In addition to ticket sales being really light this summer – for every tour – which surely hurt us, we’re paying Zappa a lot of money and all of the other bands and the catering, the union fees and blah blah blah. At the end of the day, it would be way more financially feasible to do an evening with tour and just pocket the money ourselves. But to me, I want to offer something more to the fans. And I know that’s a debate – I know a lot of people would prefer an evening with – it would make more sense for it to be an evening with, but those 3 hour shows are tough on us.

As for DT canceling the Bilbao show perhaps due to low ticket sales, I haven't a clue, but it's always possible. It's strange they'd cancel the show a week out. It definitely wasn't a case of a band member being sick. It could have been a venue issue - like the venue wasn't up to the standards or requirements that the band dictated in their tour rider and this wasn't paid attention to until just shortly before the show. In interviewing Rikk Feulner, DT's long-time tour manager, I remember him saying that he's got a constant string of e-mails not just regarding the next show but the shows in the following weeks and even months. So it's quite possible that there was a make-or-break detail regarding the venue that was missed and only came to light now, and there were no reasonable options for them to switch to another venue. Has DT previously played at the venue they were scheduled to play on this tour?

Of course, if the show was canceled because of low ticket sales, there's no way they'd ever announce that. But if that were the case, I'd be curious to know who was the one to pull the plug - the band or the promoter. I'm guessing it would be the promoter who would probably rather just cut their losses rather than put the show on and potentially risk even bigger losses. But maybe I'm wrong. Anyone that has a background in that sort of thing have more insight?
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline TAC

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Scotty, if the promoter cancels, doesn’t he/she still owe tha band for the date? I’m sure there’s contingencies in the contract.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline cramx3

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And now they're cancelling concerts in Europe only one week in advance. I'd love to know what are the logistical issues....it seems like they're not selling enough tickets. It's a pity.

Afraid there is a lack of ticket sales yes, if you look at ticketmaster then it is probably disappointing ticket sales, how many were in London on Saturday? 4-5000?

4-5k would be a great turn out for DT IMO

Offline Stadler

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And now they're cancelling concerts in Europe only one week in advance. I'd love to know what are the logistical issues....it seems like they're not selling enough tickets. It's a pity.

Afraid there is a lack of ticket sales yes, if you look at ticketmaster then it is probably disappointing ticket sales, how many were in London on Saturday? 4-5000?

4-5k would be a great turn out for DT IMO

Isn't the Oakdale 5,000 max?  I was part of the privileged in front, so I couldn't tell, but I didn't think it was full a couple weeks ago.

Offline javidt

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As for DT canceling the Bilbao show perhaps due to low ticket sales, I haven't a clue, but it's always possible. It's strange they'd cancel the show a week out. It definitely wasn't a case of a band member being sick. It could have been a venue issue - like the venue wasn't up to the standards or requirements that the band dictated in their tour rider and this wasn't paid attention to until just shortly before the show. In interviewing Rikk Feulner, DT's long-time tour manager, I remember him saying that he's got a constant string of e-mails not just regarding the next show but the shows in the following weeks and even months. So it's quite possible that there was a make-or-break detail regarding the venue that was missed and only came to light now, and there were no reasonable options for them to switch to another venue. Has DT previously played at the venue they were scheduled to play on this tour?


Yes, they played there on the I&W and Beyond tour. It's strange since the tickets are immediately valid for the Madrid gig. It seems like they haven't sold enough tickets in Spain.

It's a shame since I love seeing DT live (and the last album rocks) and I can't organise a trip to Madrid only one week in advance.

It's disappointing buying tickets months ago and get the gig cancelled seven days before the event.

Offline cramx3

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And now they're cancelling concerts in Europe only one week in advance. I'd love to know what are the logistical issues....it seems like they're not selling enough tickets. It's a pity.

Afraid there is a lack of ticket sales yes, if you look at ticketmaster then it is probably disappointing ticket sales, how many were in London on Saturday? 4-5000?

4-5k would be a great turn out for DT IMO

Isn't the Oakdale 5,000 max?  I was part of the privileged in front, so I couldn't tell, but I didn't think it was full a couple weeks ago.

Maybe but the curtains were down to block off the sides and the place was half full of what you could buy so maybe 2k were there at most.  The Beacon in NYC the night before is about 2.5k capacity and wasn't sold out.  And after the oakdale when I saw them in NJ, it was maybe 3/4 full of a 1k capacity venue. 

Offline WilliamMunny

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As someone who hasn't been to a show since Covid, the question I have is, how does DT's attendence compare to other tours?

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Scotty, if the promoter cancels, doesn’t he/she still owe tha band for the date? I’m sure there’s contingencies in the contract.
Oh I'm sure of that, but who knows what's in the contract? Hard to say.
 
 
Yes, they played there on the I&W and Beyond tour. It's strange since the tickets are immediately valid for the Madrid gig. It seems like they haven't sold enough tickets in Spain.

It's a shame since I love seeing DT live (and the last album rocks) and I can't organise a trip to Madrid only one week in advance.

It's disappointing buying tickets months ago and get the gig cancelled seven days before the event.
Thanks for your explanation javidt, and sorry to hear that you won't be able to see them. In looking at where they played, that arena is pretty huge! According to Wikipedia, it holds over 15,000 people for basketball games, so I would imagine that the capacity for a concert has to be similar or even more. I realize DT is much bigger in Europe than North America and that they regularly play arenas there, but that's a lot of tickets to sell! Hopefully the promoters won't be completely scared off and they'll still play Bilbao again, but maybe in a smaller venue next time.
 
 
Isn't the Oakdale 5,000 max?  I was part of the privileged in front, so I couldn't tell, but I didn't think it was full a couple weeks ago.
Maybe but the curtains were down to block off the sides and the place was half full of what you could buy so maybe 2k were there at most.  The Beacon in NYC the night before is about 2.5k capacity and wasn't sold out.  And after the oakdale when I saw them in NJ, it was maybe 3/4 full of a 1k capacity venue.
I haven't been there recently, but each of the times I saw them perform at the Oakdale (2004, 2006, 2007) they always had curtains blocking the sides off, so that's not surprising. I doubt they ever played a show there at full capacity.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline cramx3

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As someone who hasn't been to a show since Covid, the question I have is, how does DT's attendence compare to other tours?

Hard to say.  All depends on the bands.  But I can say from my experience, covid hasn't stopped people from showing up to concerts. (for the most part)  When I saw Clutch at the end of December during the huge omicron surge here, that was the only show I knew covid had impacted as it was "sold out" but not too packed at all and I had seen many sold out shows at that venue to know a lot of people chose not to come. 

Offline Stadler

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My experience is, it's close to the same.  It's hard to tell, though, since I'm not seeing Celine Dion or Guns'n'Roses and all that.  The bands I see are relatively smaller capacity.  Though I'm surprised that DT is not even doing 2,000 people.  That seems a drop off to me.

Offline cramx3

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DT seems odd to me as their attendance is not consistent from my experience.  If I'm being honest, I think the fan base is very fickle. When DT toured I&W and SFAM, those shows sold really well, but the tours before and after those, not so much.  I think DT has an aging fan base who wants the classics and I dont think this forum accurately represents the average DT fan.  DT has not, IMO, been good at drawing in new young fans. (and that brings me back to why DT should be joining tiktok).

Offline TAC

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  Though I'm surprised that DT is not even doing 2,000 people. 

But they're all married.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D
You know that a mark of a great song is if TAC hates it with a special passion.

Offline Kram

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It's strange since the tickets are immediately valid for the Madrid gig. It seems like they haven't sold enough tickets in Spain.
That's what it sounds like to me.  They have enough ticket sales to justify one show in Spain.  Sorry you're unable to attend the Madrid show.  I can imagine how frustrating this must be for you.

Offline Kram

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As someone who hasn't been to a show since Covid, the question I have is, how does DT's attendence compare to other tours?
Here in San Diego, they played twice on the DOT/SFAM tour and once for the On Top of the World tour, and all three times were packed/sold out.  Both of the venues they played though are small theaters that hold about 1,200 people.

Offline DreamerTV

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Although some external factors may have concurred to this outcome, we do have to realize that dt have consumed its fanbase (especially in Europe) and their back catalogue - which is the main reason people go to watch them.
Their live presentation isn't that impressive, ticket prices are way too high for a niche band as they are and their marketing is absolutely absent. Plus, as sad as it is, they're getting older and so is their fanbase.

Offline TAC

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Watching footage from Belfast. It's weird to see an arena crowd all sitting down. Such a strange dynamic.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D
You know that a mark of a great song is if TAC hates it with a special passion.

Offline WilliamMunny

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  Though I'm surprised that DT is not even doing 2,000 people. 

But they're all married.

Just now go this :rollin

Offline javidt

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Thanks everyone for the support.

Yes, they played there on the I&W and Beyond tour. It's strange since the tickets are immediately valid for the Madrid gig. It seems like they haven't sold enough tickets in Spain.

It's a shame since I love seeing DT live (and the last album rocks) and I can't organise a trip to Madrid only one week in advance.

It's disappointing buying tickets months ago and get the gig cancelled seven days before the event.
Thanks for your explanation javidt, and sorry to hear that you won't be able to see them. In looking at where they played, that arena is pretty huge! According to Wikipedia, it holds over 15,000 people for basketball games, so I would imagine that the capacity for a concert has to be similar or even more. I realize DT is much bigger in Europe than North America and that they regularly play arenas there, but that's a lot of tickets to sell! Hopefully the promoters won't be completely scared off and they'll still play Bilbao again, but maybe in a smaller venue next time.


In fact the concert takes place in a smaller room inside the arena (Cubec Room: 3k-5k people). I hope next time they don't skip Spain. I totally understand that there is no offer without demand. At least one date.

I want to think that this is a promoter decision and they compensate the band, because people here are very upset with this decision and blaming the band. It's bad publicity and image for DT.


Although some external factors may have concurred to this outcome, we do have to realize that dt have consumed its fanbase (especially in Europe) and their back catalogue - which is the main reason people go to watch them.
Their live presentation isn't that impressive, ticket prices are way too high for a niche band as they are and their marketing is absolutely absent. Plus, as sad as it is, they're getting older and so is their fanbase.

I agree with all your arguments and specially with the last one. Many people that I know have "disconnected" from the band because they are not into this kind of music (heavier since ToT with the 8VM/TA exception) or they don't have the time/money to attend to the shows.

It's a shame, I was at the Madrid show on the SFAM anniversary Tour and the place was very crowded! That validates your argument about listening their back catalogue.

Offline The Curious Orange

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Watching footage from Belfast. It's weird to see an arena crowd all sitting down. Such a strange dynamic.
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DT just don't work in seated arenas. It's why I've given this UK tour a miss.
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Offline Logain Ablar

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Watching footage from Belfast. It's weird to see an arena crowd all sitting down. Such a strange dynamic.
.
DT just don't work in seated arenas. It's why I've given this UK tour a miss.

Yeah, the arena venue kinda killed the atmosphere, tbh. Not sure if the selection of venue is down to the promoter or whatever, but I really hope it doesn't put them off coming back. It's just disappointing when there are other venue options that would be way better suited.

Offline Dream Team

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With this tour clocking in at around 2 hours, and even the DOT/Scenes tour being shorter than a usual Evening With, are shorter sets likely to be the norm for DT going forward?

It could be. These guys aren't young. JR is senior citizen and MM and JLB are almost 60. Tour life means you are constantly on the move and having your sleep schedule messed up. It's gotta be hard especially when you consider the nature of the music they're playing. I would not be surprised if shorter shows are the norm.

Rush always kept to the Evening With format, but of course DT is playing even harder stuff. Still I think it would be cool if they did the 2-hr set most of the tour but finished with a special venue in an Evening With format to record the show for a future release.

Offline cramx3

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Just saw that Devin Townsend got a 9 song set to open up for DT.  That seems a lot more time than Arch Echo got in the states.  That would be a really awesome show (IMO) to see Devin open for DT. 

Offline Stadler

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Just saw that Devin Townsend got a 9 song set to open up for DT.  That seems a lot more time than Arch Echo got in the states.  That would be a really awesome show (IMO) to see Devin open for DT.

I agree; that would have been killer.

Offline goo-goo

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Just saw that Devin Townsend got a 9 song set to open up for DT.  That seems a lot more time than Arch Echo got in the states.  That would be a really awesome show (IMO) to see Devin open for DT.

 I believe I read somewhere (probably from Darby Todd, Devin's current drummer) that they are playing 75 mins.

Offline TheBarstoolWarrior

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With this tour clocking in at around 2 hours, and even the DOT/Scenes tour being shorter than a usual Evening With, are shorter sets likely to be the norm for DT going forward?

It could be. These guys aren't young. JR is senior citizen and MM and JLB are almost 60. Tour life means you are constantly on the move and having your sleep schedule messed up. It's gotta be hard especially when you consider the nature of the music they're playing. I would not be surprised if shorter shows are the norm.

Rush always kept to the Evening With format, but of course DT is playing even harder stuff. Still I think it would be cool if they did the 2-hr set most of the tour but finished with a special venue in an Evening With format to record the show for a future release.

Much harder material, and no disrespect to Rush, whom I admire greatly, but DT is just more locked in these days than Rush was.


Offline gzarruk

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It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."