Author Topic: The "A View from the Top of the World tour is awesome!" thread (spoilers)  (Read 30054 times)

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Offline pg1067

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Aside from that.... The  Rhapsody in Blue was definitely a highlight!

The Gershwin piece?  That's cool (albeit a bit odd)!
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Offline WilliamMunny

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Aside from that.... The  Rhapsody in Blue was definitely a highlight!

The Gershwin piece?  That's cool (albeit a bit odd)!

It was on the last LTE release.

Offline geeeemo

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Aside from that.... The  Rhapsody in Blue was definitely a highlight!

The Gershwin piece?  That's cool (albeit a bit odd)!

It's a song they did on LTE 3

Offline pg1067

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Is it LTE covering Gershwin or just the same title?
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline WilliamMunny

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Is it LTE covering Gershwin or just the same title?

Yes, it is a cover, but it's freaking brilliant. You should definitely check it out...a highlight of the album as far as I'm concerned.

Online The Letter M

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LTE originally played "Rhapsody In Blue" back in 2008 for their 10th Anniversary tour. The band later decided to record a studio version for LTE3. Since they performed it in 2008, it influenced MP/JR/JP when they put together "The Count Of Tuscany". It's all kind of come full circle.

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Offline jimgolf

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Well, james said it himself - he isnít lip syncing. That clears that up. Except for the tons of footage clearly showing prerecorded lead vocals being played over his lines in bridges while he whisper sings an octave lower while the prerecorded piped in lead vocals overpower his own.. Personally I think the whole section and approach is silly and I donít get why they donít just play an easier song to sing, but whatever, denial it is then! :yarr

Edit: Just to clarify, the reason iím a bit cynical about it is he is berating fans for discussing something heís clearly doing. We have eyes and ears.

Offline Stadler

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:lol :lol :lol

he's clearly not. If he were, all of these performances would sound strangely close to the recorded versions, which they don't.

I am impressed they found out about this so quickly.

Not necessarily.  Roger Waters, for example, has clearly lip synched in recent years, and often the track you hear live is a new one he did, most likely in tour rehearsals where they probably took the best take he could deliver and made that the "live" one that he lip synched.

This happens a lot, especially at one-offs and things like award shows.  Those kinds of events just can't have glitches, so they have a fail-safe.  That DOESN'T mean that you're hearing the original studio version, and it doesn't mean you're not hearing "live", it just means it's not live IN THAT MOMENT.

Offline emtee

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I don't have a horse in this race but to me live means live. In the moment at the moment. Period.

I understand it's done often at awards shows and I get why. But at a rock show? Nope.

Not saying JLB is or isn't,  I'll take his word, but live is live. It means what it means.

Online Ben_Jamin

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Live can mean many things.

Live music now includes a live performance and show.

Live music changed once all these new technologies were available to enhance that Live experience.

Some musicians have taken advantage of the technology available to make the live show, spectacular. This includes backing tracks.

For myself, I can find a balance between the music and vocals being live and the performance of the show. I understand bands will utilize backing tracks. I want to hear the song, first and foremost, just being able to hear the artist play the song is why I go to shows. And let me say as well, I have more of a problem with bands live setlists than I do the performance enhancing technology. This is why I like Dream Theater because they're not afraid to play any song across their catalog, same with Rush. Unlike most bands who consistently play the same songs every tour, neglecting more than half of their catalog.

I don't mind if Dream Theater uses backing vocals, but what I sort of have an issue with is when that backing track is louder than the actual vocalists volume. It's a me thing though, because I want that backing vocal to also be loud enough to blend with the live voice, which is like a paradox.  :biggrin:

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Offline Dream Team

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Reminds me of how Nic Cage has become a meme because he is more of a performer than an actor. I guess at this stage DT aim to put on a performance rather than a live concert. Choices.

Online Ben_Jamin

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I'm in Austin as we speak. Decided to bring my friend who couldn't go to the Mesa show.

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Offline goo-goo

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I'll be at the show as well. Dead Center, first row, top balcony.

Online hefdaddy42

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I'll be at the show as well. Dead Center, first row, top balcony.
Ben_Jamin, you now have to go up to the balcony before the show and yell "Hey goo-goo!" until he answers you.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Online Ben_Jamin

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I'll be at the show as well. Dead Center, first row, top balcony.
Ben_Jamin, you now have to go up to the balcony before the show and yell "Hey goo-goo!" until he answers you.

My seats are just a few rows behind him, so that's coincidentally hilarious.  :rollin
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Offline hunnus2000

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Boy - anyone who followed Rush over the years would have the same complaints. During Far Cry during the Far Cry chorus, they would pipe in the "whoo-hoo it's a far cry from where we"....blah, blah, blah. Geddy would just look at the front rows and roll his eyes knowing he was lip-synching that part. This happened in MANY of their songs. During Wish Them Well Geddy triggered the response to 'wish them well' during the chorus.

No big deal......

Online The Letter M

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Boy - anyone who followed Rush over the years would have the same complaints. During Far Cry during the Far Cry chorus, they would pipe in the "whoo-hoo it's a far cry from where we"....blah, blah, blah. Geddy would just look at the front rows and roll his eyes knowing he was lip-synching that part. This happened in MANY of their songs. During Wish Them Well Geddy triggered the response to 'wish them well' during the chorus.

No big deal......

I think the difference between Rush triggering pre-recorded vocals and instruments/sounds and Dream Theater doing it is that Rush slowly built that into their shows over time and they were only three guys on stage. Dream Theater used to have 2 guys doing backing vocals in a band of five, with Portnoy and Petrucci helping with backing vocals, but one Portnoy left, it seemed like they wanted JLB to be the only voice on stage, so that meant suddenly triggering his backing vocals rather than having them sung live, which felt like quite a shift from what they used to do. Pair that with playing every song to a click, it just felt like their shows suddenly because a rigid performance rather than the loose and freeing "live" concerts they used to do.

I understand how folks can like/hate both ways of performing, but I suppose folks will just have to accept that the way DT is doing shows now is how they'll probably be doing them for the rest of their career. I guess if you aren't fully aware of it, ignorance is really bliss. It's like when you start being told how much CGI is actually used in movies these days, it might ruin the experience for you because you believed everything was real/practical and done on location, rather than on a back-lot with green screens.

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Offline KevShmev

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Not to mention it is misleading to say that "anyone who followed Rush would have the same complaints," which honestly feels like a bad fishing trip.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2022, 05:16:12 PM by KevShmev »

Online Ben_Jamin

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I just find it fascinating how everyone perceives live music differently.
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Offline EPIC Outro

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While it can be argued that DT's use of backing tracks was a sudden change, it has been their way of doing things for more than a decade now so I've had plenty of time to become accustomed to it. I prefer the old way, but I have accepted that this is the kind of show they are giving us right now. But I wouldn't be disappointed if they gave us a more raw live show sometime in the future.

And as far as JP doing live backing vocals... I LOVE the falsetto lines he sang on In the Name of God at Budokan. I believe he did the same on The Ones Who Help to Set the Sun on WDADR. If I remember right, those vocals were much more apparent on either the CD or the DVD of that show, but I don't remember which.

Offline hunnus2000

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Not to mention it is misleading to say that "anyone who followed Rush would have the same complaints," which honestly feels like a bad fishing trip.

Oh my bad - I said would.

I meant SHOULD have the same complaint. Better?  ::)


Offline Setlist Scotty

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Not to mention it is misleading to say that "anyone who followed Rush would have the same complaints," which honestly feels like a bad fishing trip.
Oh my bad - I said would.

I meant SHOULD have the same complaint. Better?  ::)
Why the need to be so obnoxious with an opinion that differs from yours?

I think a major difference between Rush and DT - besides the fact that DT used to, and still *is* capable, of doing backing vocals live - is the fact that when Rush did it, everything was manually triggered by the guys live. So in a way, they were still "performing" the part, even if it was a trigger. With DT playing to a click, those canned vocals are in essence just playing along with a tape (actually the modern-day digital equivalent, but my point still stands). To some of you it may seem like a minor detail, but to me and perhaps others, it's another reason why what Rush did was more tolerable than what DT's doing now.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline crystalstars17

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I understand how folks can like/hate both ways of performing, but I suppose folks will just have to accept that the way DT is doing shows now is how they'll probably be doing them for the rest of their career. I guess if you aren't fully aware of it, ignorance is really bliss. It's like when you start being told how much CGI is actually used in movies these days, it might ruin the experience for you because you believed everything was real/practical and done on location, rather than on a back-lot with green screens.

And then, there are those who are aware of it, and actually prefer it.

I'm starting to think that this may be a generational thing. I'm not a boomer, and when I watch live concert videos from my parents' era, even from the very best of bands, they are mostly quite honestly a hot mess.

Offline 425

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On that JLB video, seeing the commentary in the fanbase outside DTF, I totally understand why heís pissed. Itís far from my favorite song, and I donít think it would be actually advisable to do this, but it would be cathartic to see them break out Never Enough. Iíve always maintained that MP was exactly right about a certain kind of fan.
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Offline DTwwbwMP

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Well, james said it himself - he isnít lip syncing. That clears that up. Except for the tons of footage clearly showing prerecorded lead vocals being played over his lines in bridges while he whisper sings an octave lower while the prerecorded piped in lead vocals overpower his own.. Personally I think the whole section and approach is silly and I donít get why they donít just play an easier song to sing, but whatever, denial it is then! :yarr

Edit: Just to clarify, the reason iím a bit cynical about it is he is berating fans for discussing something heís clearly doing. We have eyes and ears.

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Offline MoraWintersoul

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And then, there are those who are aware of it, and actually prefer it.

I'm starting to think that this may be a generational thing. I'm not a boomer, and when I watch live concert videos from my parents' era, even from the very best of bands, they are mostly quite honestly a hot mess.
I'm a younger millennial, and we're mostly comparing Dream Theater in 2022 to Dream Theater in 2009, not the very best of bands in the 1970's. This band used to do things differently and they weren't a hot mess and we miss it and we want this current approach toned down a bit. A BIT, until at least the backing vocal tapes aren't loud enough that people are discussing whether James is even singing under them during that bridge in BITS or not. I don't think that would set their shows to hot mess status.

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Offline TheCountOfNYC

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On that JLB video, seeing the commentary in the fanbase outside DTF, I totally understand why heís pissed. Itís far from my favorite song, and I donít think it would be actually advisable to do this, but it would be cathartic to see them break out Never Enough. Iíve always maintained that MP was exactly right about a certain kind of fan.

This is exactly why Iím not bothered by the lyrics. In fact, when Portnoy was explaining the subject matter, he went out of his way to say how much he loves and appreciates the Dream Theater fans, and that these lyrics were about a very small group of fans. And he was 100% right. Everything really is never enough.
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Offline crystalstars17

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I don't think that would set their shows to hot mess status.

No, it wouldn't and they never were, but I was addressing the type of fans who seem to be saying (here and elsewhere) they want a completely "raw" and unproduced show. Maybe that's just what they grew up with at concerts in general, and so they prefer it? That's all I meant. I'm just trying to wrap my head around it.

But that's not my preference at all.

It's about being polished. The band is so advanced and polished now, and their use of technology just serves to create an even more polished finished product. If technology enhances the atmosphere of an elevated total experience, then I say it's a positive addition.

Again though, here and elsewhere, this whole "lipsyncing controversy" is getting way too much press. I firmly believe that it's a technical problem with the balance of the sound and not the band's fault. I think they should make a public statement on the website or something, maybe with a short behind the scenes video showing what is actually happening on stage in those moments. But from everything I've seen online, I doubt even that would clear the air because there are people out there who are determined to decide that they are lying to us.

Offline devieira73

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About this whole discussion of using a backing track or not, I like Megadeth's approach to it (questions and answers with Kiko Loureiro, around 3:30: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiOVu93pTFo&t =7s)
He basically says that they don't have any backing tracks of instruments that they have on stage. They don't have extra guitars, extra acoustic guitars, any backing vocals, drums or percussion. If they can play or sing, they do it live, but they do use orchestrations. Songs like 'Trust' have orchestrations, so they use backing tracks there. If the songs have intros, like 'Dystopia', 'The Threat is Real', so they have backing tracks for those intros.
He adds that the band, however, uses click track, so they can play in sync with videos and other elements of the show, and that songs with orchestrations, extra instruments or intros need the backing tracks to create the atmosphere like on the album.
I know DT sound evolved, but if you hear Live at the Marquee, their more raw live sound was great back then. And this "Megadeth approach" is basically what DT did until 2010, just without the click track - and DT could just add that IMO.
It's only a matter of preference, I do still think DT is amazing live and I'm really looking foward to see them in Rock in Rio!! :hefdaddy :metal
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Offline KevShmev

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On that JLB video, seeing the commentary in the fanbase outside DTF, I totally understand why heís pissed. Itís far from my favorite song, and I donít think it would be actually advisable to do this, but it would be cathartic to see them break out Never Enough. Iíve always maintained that MP was exactly right about a certain kind of fan.

Eh, I would hope James would never stoop to the level of embracing the embarrassing lyrics to Never Enough.  While I get the sentiment Portnoy was going for in them, the lyrics themselves are not good, IMO (sorry, Mike, if you were neglecting your family, that's on you :P).

I don't think that would set their shows to hot mess status.

No, it wouldn't and they never were, but I was addressing the type of fans who seem to be saying (here and elsewhere) they want a completely "raw" and unproduced show. Maybe that's just what they grew up with at concerts in general, and so they prefer it? That's all I meant. I'm just trying to wrap my head around it.

But that's not my preference at all.

It's about being polished. The band is so advanced and polished now, and their use of technology just serves to create an even more polished finished product. If technology enhances the atmosphere of an elevated total experience, then I say it's a positive addition.

Again though, here and elsewhere, this whole "lipsyncing controversy" is getting way too much press. I firmly believe that it's a technical problem with the balance of the sound and not the band's fault. I think they should make a public statement on the website or something, maybe with a short behind the scenes video showing what is actually happening on stage in those moments. But from everything I've seen online, I doubt even that would clear the air because there are people out there who are determined to decide that they are lying to us.

To push back a little on this, studio albums are where you should want to go if you want a polished, finished product.

I get using technology to enhance a live experience, and some of my favorite bands/artists definitely do it, but if a live experience is raw, well, I would say then you are getting a true live performance.   Obviously, we live in a age now where every artist seemingly "fixes" mistakes to where live albums aren't true indicators of what actually took place, so the toothpaste is out of the tube at this point, but there is something very real, very honest and very great about a true live raw performance without all of the bells and whistles that a production brings. 

Offline crystalstars17

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Obviously, we live in a age now where every artist seemingly "fixes" mistakes to where live albums aren't true indicators of what actually took place, so the toothpaste is out of the tube at this point, but there is something very real, very honest and very great about a true live raw performance without all of the bells and whistles that a production brings.

I think that this truly is a matter of preference. I wonder then whether they shouldn't try to please everyone and include both kinds of shows? For example give us the fully produced show on the regular tour, and then give what you are calling a "true live raw performance" for festivals.

Offline WilliamMunny

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Obviously, we live in a age now where every artist seemingly "fixes" mistakes to where live albums aren't true indicators of what actually took place, so the toothpaste is out of the tube at this point, but there is something very real, very honest and very great about a true live raw performance without all of the bells and whistles that a production brings.

I think that this truly is a matter of preference. I wonder then whether they shouldn't try to please everyone and include both kinds of shows? For example give us the fully produced show on the regular tour, and then give what you are calling a "true live raw performance" for festivals.

I personally believe that an artist should, first and foremost, please themselves. If DT is presenting the show 'they' want to present, then I'm good with that. As a consumer, I prefer to focus my time/energy/money on things I like, as opposed to dwell on things I don't.

If DT's live show bothered me (it doesn't), I'd probably decide to simply not go and see them the next time around. But as it stands, if the band is happy, then I am happy.

Offline crystalstars17

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But as it stands, if the band is happy, then I am happy.

I agree. And I am on the 'production' side and love what they're giving us now, I wouldn't have it any other way. I just think that if there is such a large percentage of fans that is unhappy they could at least catch a different kind of show in an alternative environment. Maybe this would help calm all the unrest in the fandom? But I do see your point, they don't owe anyone anything.

Offline WilliamMunny

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But as it stands, if the band is happy, then I am happy.

I agree. And I am on the 'production' side and love what they're giving us now, I wouldn't have it any other way. I just think that if there is such a large percentage of fans that is unhappy they could at least catch a different kind of show in an alternative environment. Maybe this would help calm all the unrest in the fandom? But I do see your point, they don't owe anyone anything.

I do wonder, though, what percentage of the fanbase posters on this forum represent. I suspect (and fully admit that I could be way off base) that the 'unrest' is a very small, but vocal minority. There are thousands of people in these arenas every night, but there are but a few dozen comments on reddit, and barely just as many here. So, regardless of what 'side' of this debate you fall, all of us may only represent one percent of the actual concert goers. The vast majority likely don't have an opinion either way.

Offline Dream Team

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LOL at calling the live shows of all the great rock bands of the 60s and 70s a "hot mess". Such a ridiculous statement.