Author Topic: The "A View from the Top of the World tour is awesome!" thread (spoilers)  (Read 38476 times)

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Offline cramx3

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I think there's a sort of consensus that James is delivering, at least on this recent portion of the tour.  I thought he was great in Connecticut.

Kind of hard to say when you experience the show two different ways, but I'm leaning towards CT being the better sounding show between that and NJ. I know there were a couple small hiccups in the performance in CT, but overall thought both nights the band was spot on enough for me to not complain.  I don't even want to see a flawless show.  Give me JLB choking on water or Myung coming in a little early.  No big deal, they are humans and how they recover is cool and interesting to me.  I know last night something must have happened (I couldn't tell what) with MM's drums.  A tech came out, checked something behind the kit, laid down behind it and checked something under, and then came in front of the kit and checked out the bass drum.  All while the band was playing TCOT.  I like seeing stuff like that personally, I couldn't tell what was even wrong then.  MM making faces during it all was priceless though.  Like his acknowledgment to us watching that yes something is wrong and what can you do, the show must go on!

Offline Stadler

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I'm all for hiccups.  I've told this story before:  I took my kid to see Kiss in Hartford in 2014.  During God Of Thunder, about halfway through the set, Gene starts to fly and gets stuck like four feet off the ground (it was funny).  The roadies got him down, and he was clearly angry.  He was yelling at the roadie, then as the song was winding down he went over to the side and was still barking at the crew.  Then before the next song he came back out and walked over to Paul and said something to him, then to Tommy, and from then on, it was like a different band.  Even my kid could tell; she said "dad, what happened; it was like a different band in the second half".

I love that stuff.

Offline cramx3

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Yeah me too, but nothing I saw came close to any of that from DT :lol  I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't truly enjoy MM's drum set completely breaking down mid song (and that's not against MM, that's just to see the spectacle and I have full faith the band would recover and it would be epic).

Offline TheBarstoolWarrior

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Also wanted to mention that the Alien was awesome live. I expected them to open with it, which they did, and it was pretty damn great. I think it moved up a spot in my DT15 rankings.

Offline tofee35

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Also wanted to mention that the Alien was awesome live. I expected them to open with it, which they did, and it was pretty damn great. I think it moved up a spot in my DT15 rankings.

Absolutely. Being the first single, I thought I'd grow sick of it. But, it's one of my favorites on the album still and is even better live. The energy really kicks off the show right. It's nice seeing them go into 6:00 right after. It has a nice yin/yang, new/old, energetic/grooving dynamic of the two opening songs. Good stuff.

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Offline Dream Team

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Why IN HELL did they have to pipe in the “whoa o ooo” section at the end of TCOT? Is that really that difficult to sing? Pathetic.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Why IN HELL did they have to pipe in the “whoa o ooo” section at the end of TCOT? Is that really that difficult to sing? Pathetic.
They obviously didn't HAVE to do it.  They thought it would add to the presentation, like all of the other parts they are reproducing.
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Offline TAC

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Why IN HELL did they have to pipe in the “whoa o ooo” section at the end of TCOT? Is that really that difficult to sing? Pathetic.
They obviously didn't HAVE to do it.  They thought it would add to the presentation, like all of the other parts they are reproducing.

Unfortunately this is the answer.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline tofee35

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Why IN HELL did they have to pipe in the “whoa o ooo” section at the end of TCOT? Is that really that difficult to sing? Pathetic.
They obviously didn't HAVE to do it.  They thought it would add to the presentation, like all of the other parts they are reproducing.

Unfortunately this is the answer.

They've fully embraced the music and show presentation to closely match the album. So, I'm not really bothered by it because everything is rehearsed that way. It's not a lazy move, but more calculated. I view it similarly to how I see JP's pedal effect at the beginning of TCOT. He plays the opening passage then lets it repeat while he solos over it. It's not a perfect comparison because he plays it live first, but that's how I see it. Another reason why it doesn't bother me is because I care about the vocals last. I can absolutely understand how it bothers people though. There's a creative opportunity missed when album elements are piped in that could make the live experience more unique. I wouldn't be surprised if they address it in a post-tour fan interview down the line. They seem to address most fan critiques at one point or another.

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Offline Setlist Scotty

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I view it similarly to how I see JP's pedal effect at the beginning of TCOT. He plays the opening passage then lets it repeat while he solos over it. It's not a perfect comparison because he plays it live first, but that's how I see it.
Except he doesn't. That opening guitar line is pre-recorded, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKfZXxlc6j4

Sorry, I'm with Tim. Relying on a bunch of pre-recorded stuff when it *can* be pulled off live is lame.
 
 
I can absolutely understand how it bothers people though. There's a creative opportunity missed when album elements are piped in that could make the live experience more unique. I wouldn't be surprised if they address it in a post-tour fan interview down the line. They seem to address most fan critiques at one point or another.
I wish they would, but this and playing to a click have become their MO ever since MP left, so I highly doubt they're gonna change now. This is hardly the first tour where these issues have been brought up and they haven't been addressed up until now, so the chances of it happening on a future are next to nil.
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Offline bosk1

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I view it similarly to how I see JP's pedal effect at the beginning of TCOT. He plays the opening passage then lets it repeat while he solos over it. It's not a perfect comparison because he plays it live first, but that's how I see it.
Except he doesn't. That opening guitar line is pre-recorded, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKfZXxlc6j4

I was going to say, I didn't think it was a loop either.  I've seen some pretty cool stuff done live with loopers though, but it still feels kinda weird to me. 
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Offline The Letter M

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I just looked at some live DT videos from 2009-2010, and it looks like the opening of TCOT was just played over the speakers and not live back then as well, so I think it's always been that way. Honestly, I always thought it was JR who played it on his keys and then JP joined in with the solo on top, but I guess it's all pre-recorded and played on tape.

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Offline bosk1

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I get that people would prefer that everything be live, but I find it kind of pathetic that people complain about stuff like that since, as you point out, Marc, it is nothing new.  And it was old, well established habit going way back farther than that.  To cite a couple of examples, I don't think they ever played the Six Degrees overture live.  And to go back even farther than that, I don't think they played the Metropolis intro live after Images came out either.  If people want something to complain about, I would find something else, as this particular ship sailed a LONG time ago.
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Offline KevShmev

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The opened the Awake tour with Pull Me Under and the first 40-50 seconds was from the album. I actually thought that was a bad ass way to open the show. The stage is dark and the band comes on stage during the opening and then the lights come up and they all blast into playing live at the same time.

Offline gzarruk

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I'm so disappointed they never performed any of the NOMAC tracks live either.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Dream Team

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So how far would DT have to go with overdubs and lip-syncing to have it bother some of you?!? Milli Vanilli territory?

Offline Ben_Jamin

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So how far would DT have to go with overdubs and lip-syncing to have it bother some of you?!? Milli Vanilli territory?

Well you can still hear JLBs vocals live. As is the same with pop artists. You can still hear their live vocals, but certain melody lines are piped in.

But it does not bother me.

What I enjoy is live music and I enjoy when pop artists bring a live band with them. The same with rap shows bringing a live band. I have seen Snoop Dogg with a live band and with a DJ and the live band makes a ton of difference. I wish that rap artists could afford to tour with a live band.

I would rather see a live band playing the music, but I still go see a rap show with just the DJ and a rapper. The same way I would also like to see a Trance/Electronic artists with live vocals over piped in vocals because the artist could not be there. But I'll still go see the artist as the DJ performing the music crossfades and all that is what I am at that performance for.

It is also interesting watching JPs behind his rig video he posted on Facebook. Which he mentions how his new toy makes it able to simulate the effect of two guitars being played, since the studio has double tracked guitars to fill out the sound and he wants to replicate that live.



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Offline Trav86

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So how far would DT have to go with overdubs and lip-syncing to have it bother some of you?!? Milli Vanilli territory?

There are so many miles in between what they’re doing and Milli Vanilli.  This is ridiculous.
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Offline Stadler

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There is a huge difference between “playing along with” and “miming”.  I have zero cares that there are taped portions IF the band is still performing.  I saw Petrucci from 15 feet away and I’m reasonably sure when he was fretting a note, I was hearing it in real time.   I’m good with that.   I don’t need them to tour with 10 musicians (like the Zep cover band “Get The Led Out”) to recreate everything live.  When there’s no part of THEM playing, I’m probably out. 

Offline gzarruk

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So how far would DT have to go with overdubs and lip-syncing to have it bother some of you?!? Milli Vanilli territory?

If they are adding extra stuff that's on the album but they can't humanly recreate without growing an extra pair of arms, I'm fine with.

If they start completely lip-syncing or just miming stuff, then it definitely bothers me, as does the current "situation" with JLB and those lines on BITS. That should not happen. (and the talk about that has been getting censored on the official DT FB group as well)
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline hefdaddy42

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I get that people would prefer that everything be live, but I find it kind of pathetic that people complain about stuff like that since, as you point out, Marc, it is nothing new.  And it was old, well established habit going way back farther than that.  To cite a couple of examples, I don't think they ever played the Six Degrees overture live.  And to go back even farther than that, I don't think they played the Metropolis intro live after Images came out either.  If people want something to complain about, I would find something else, as this particular ship sailed a LONG time ago.
They have actually only physically played the Metropolis Pt. 1 intro one time, at the SCORE show.  Every other time, it's the pre-recorded/from the album intro.
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Offline Trav86

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I get that people would prefer that everything be live, but I find it kind of pathetic that people complain about stuff like that since, as you point out, Marc, it is nothing new.  And it was old, well established habit going way back farther than that.  To cite a couple of examples, I don't think they ever played the Six Degrees overture live.  And to go back even farther than that, I don't think they played the Metropolis intro live after Images came out either.  If people want something to complain about, I would find something else, as this particular ship sailed a LONG time ago.
They have actually only physically played the Metropolis Pt. 1 intro one time, at the SCORE show.  Every other time, it's the pre-recorded/from the album intro.

What the hell are they thinking!?
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Offline Dream Team

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So how far would DT have to go with overdubs and lip-syncing to have it bother some of you?!? Milli Vanilli territory?

If they are adding extra stuff that's on the album but they can't humanly recreate without growing an extra pair of arms, I'm fine with.

If they start completely lip-syncing or just miming stuff, then it definitely bothers me, as does the current "situation" with JLB and those lines on BITS. That should not happen. (and the talk about that has been getting censored on the official DT FB group as well)

I'm curious as to whose idea it was. Do you think James approached JP and said "Hey as you know I struggle mightily live. Let's just pick a random section of a song that I will lip-sync to. Maybe part of the chorus of The Count? Funny choice I know since I plan on singing 6:00 for real. What else. Oh how about piping in the Whoa-oh-oh section of The Count also". Or is some of this JP's idea?

Funny thing is that James is already getting a 10-minute break during each song. I have used hyperbole I know but I hate seeing bands I love crap on their legacy.


Offline crystalstars17

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If they are adding extra stuff that's on the album but they can't humanly recreate without growing an extra pair of arms, I'm fine with.

Umm, wait.....they don't have extra arms???  :rollin

Offline Madman Shepherd

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So how far would DT have to go with overdubs and lip-syncing to have it bother some of you?!? Milli Vanilli territory?

Precisely 21.7%




There are so many miles in between what they’re doing and Milli Vanilli.  This is ridiculous.

Thank you.

BTW, I don't think anyone has mentioned JLB's performances of Bridges in the Sky 10 years ago. Sure there was no backing track for the section but he also would "cheat" it by cutting himself off and yelling, "sing it!"

At the time I just thought it was frontman stuff even though that section doesn't really lend itself to a huge audience singalong. Now I realize he was doing that to give himself an extra half-a-second to get some extra breath. It's now apparent that it was challenging then and he's a decade older now.

If it comes down them cutting that song all together or using a vocal track for a grand total of 20 seconds for the entire song, then keep the fucking song!

I remember when they first started using backing tracks and someone on this board proclaimed they are no longer a live band...because a fraction of a fraction of a percent of their performance was canned. Now they indisputably are canning more of their performance but it is still a fraction of a percent. I typically don't like the argument, "If you don't like it don't listen to it" because I feel there should be more room for nuance and constructive destruction, but some of the comments here really have me wondering why people care so much.

Nobody is forcing them to listen. I almost skipped this tour for unrelated reason but also partially because I no longer feel, "Holy shit I have to see DT. I can't miss a single show in my area!"

Maybe just don't go to shows if it bothers you so much. Possibly think about using your time to discuss things you like as opposed to dislike.

Offline Dream Team

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So again I ask, how far does it go before it starts to bother you? Lip-syncing entire songs from I&W? Still wish they would just tune down or something but ok I will shut up now since I’m in the minority of wanting a rock band to perform live. Oh but as an addendum there is no need to pipe in Portnoy’s vocals by the way. Are they still doing that? A guy that hasn’t been in the band in 12 years  :facepalm:. Maybe Petrucci Rudess and Myung could work on their vocal harmonies.

Offline Madman Shepherd

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So again I ask, how far does it go before it starts to bother you? Lip-syncing entire songs from I&W?

Again I answer: 21.7% of their performance can be canned and not a tenth of a percent more.

You say you want a band to perform live and imply because they have backing vocals, a click track, and the two lines where James sings along to a full volume vocal track they are not live. You are wrong. That's the only way to frame your argument. You're wrong. You may not be comfortable with it but that does not make them a live band.

They played to a click and used canned backing vocals for Prophets of War and by your definition they would not be considered a live band then? Or only on the nights they played it?

Sorry. Your argument is ridiculous. Your opinion that it's too much is perfectly fine and warranted but to imply they are no longer a live band is something else.

Offline DTwwbwMP

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It's embarrassing  :facepalm: and terrible :loser: for a band of their caliber. GO GET ANOTHER SINGER! :metal

Offline Setlist Scotty

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I don't think they ever played the Six Degrees overture live.  And to go back even farther than that, I don't think they played the Metropolis intro live after Images came out either.  If people want something to complain about, I would find something else, as this particular ship sailed a LONG time ago.
I think the difference between using taped intros for some songs - especially in the case of Metropolis, PMU or The Crimson Sunrise - is that this was done to build anticipation and excitement in the audience and for the band to start off with a bang.

OTOH, canned backing vocals were something that were never used during the MP-era. In fact, it was only beginning with the Fix for 96 shows that the band started doing backing vocals. So theoretically, before then would have been the optimum time to use the canned vocals, and yet they didn't. So to see them resort to doing it now is a bone of contention.
 
 
So how far would DT have to go with overdubs and lip-syncing to have it bother some of you?!? Milli Vanilli territory?
There are so many miles in between what they’re doing and Milli Vanilli.  This is ridiculous.
I'll agree with you there. Hyperbole is not going to help you make your point Dream Team.
 
 
They have actually only physically played the Metropolis Pt. 1 intro one time, at the SCORE show.  Every other time, it's the pre-recorded/from the album intro.
For the record, that is wrong Hef. There have been other times where they did perform the intro, although very few in number.
 
 
Now they indisputably are canning more of their performance but it is still a fraction of a percent. I typically don't like the argument, "If you don't like it don't listen to it" because I feel there should be more room for nuance and constructive destruction, but some of the comments here really have me wondering why people care so much.
Dunno how much of your comment is directed at me, but I'll just respond personally by saying that it's because they are my favorite band (even with MP gone), and for the most part I still enjoy their more recent albums - especially the latest two - but it's disappointing and frustrating to see what the band is turning into in the live setting, given what they used to be beforehand.
 
 
If it comes down them cutting that song all together or using a vocal track for a grand total of 20 seconds for the entire song, then keep the fucking song!
Sorry - gotta disagree with you here. If downtuning or shortening the final note of "take my haaaaaannnnnd" are not options (assuming that's the reason why they're having JL lip sync the previous lines), then pick a different song! Given the massive catalog that they have, they have an overabundance of other tracks they could pick from to play so that lip syncing to a lead vocal would not be necessary. Quite frankly, I'm surprised they didn't include an instrumental in the setlist in part just to give JL a rest.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline jimgolf

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Quote from: Setlist Scotty link=topic=57270.msg2866847#msg2866847 date=
Sorry - gotta disagree with you here. If downtuning or shortening the final note of "take my haaaaaannnnnd" are not options (assuming that's the reason why they're having JL lip sync the previous lines), then pick a different song! Given the massive catalog that they have, they have an overabundance of other tracks they could pick from to play so that lip syncing to a lead vocal would not be necessary. Quite frankly, I'm surprised they didn't include an instrumental in the setlist in part just to give JL a rest.

I think this is where I stand as well. This wasn’t a situation where they were in the middle of the tour and discovered James was having trouble singing one of the songs in the setlist, so they recorded some lead vocals just to get him through the song each night until the end of the tour. Instead, they consciously made a decision to do this and recorded these vocals before the start of the tour. I feel it would’ve been a much better decision to just pick a song like Outcry, Lost Not Forgotten, or OTBOA where it would’ve been easier for James to sing the line, and therefore not have a need for having piped in lead vocals. I get why people may not think its a big deal, but for me it is disappointing seeing one of your favorite bands/singers out there singing along to prerecorded lead vocals - especially when it really isn’t even necessary.

Offline WilliamMunny

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It's embarrassing  :facepalm: and terrible :loser: for a band of their caliber. GO GET ANOTHER SINGER! :metal

Wow, after 30 years and 14 albums, the solution is to just can 'the voice' of the band? :-\

Look, I don't mean to single you out, but as the years go by, 'this' particular kind of post never ceases to amaze me.

In an effort to keep this conversation productive, I would like to ask you (and anyone else who shares this opinion), let's assume they 'go get another singer,' what happens next?

Do they get a known name, like Russell Allen? Let's say they do, do you think this leads to chart success? A multi-platinum album? A sold-out world tour? Many bands have gone this route, and few have managed to acquire anything other than diminshed returns.

But then, I will ask you this: what happens when the 'new' guy starts to have issues? (Cue Steve Augeri)

Case in point: Todd LaTorre was hailed by many as a savior when he joined Queensryche, but as soon as the tour-dates started to mount, he began to show signs of wear and tear live. Subtle at first, but as time has gone on, this chatter has grown. Obviously, it's not a huge deal, and Todd still sounds great live, but given the recent upturn in quality from Tate's live performances, you'd have a hard time convincing me that Geoff wouldn't be able to slide right back in and reassume his position in the band.

My point with all of this is, it's easy to say 'fire that guy,' but the litany of questions that would follow are way more difficult to answer.

My opinion is this: for a band of their caliber, and more importantly, for a band of their age, I'm willing to afford James (along with everyone else) a little bit of grace when judging what I see. No different than I did with Geddy, or Ozzy, or Dio, or even Bruce. And in all of those cases, I'd much rather see the original as opposed to young-gun hire.

But, if you still feel like James needs to be replaced, I'm sure there's a local band in your area nailing DT covers as we speak.




Offline EPIC Outro

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James is irreplaceable.

Offline cramx3

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It's embarrassing  :facepalm: and terrible :loser: for a band of their caliber. GO GET ANOTHER SINGER! :metal

Wow, after 30 years and 14 albums, the solution is to just can 'the voice' of the band? :-\

Look, I don't mean to single you out, but as the years go by, 'this' particular kind of post never ceases to amaze me.

Agreed, that's a poor take IMO.


James is irreplaceable.

Yes and no.  I think they could replace him, but I don't think it makes much sense unless JLB himself wants out.  JLB is the voice of DT.

Offline jimgolf

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I wouldn’t want them to replace James. They just need to be a bit more careful with planning the live shows to set James up for success. Maybe downtune a few songs, alter some vocal melodies, cut out a tough vocal section like they used to do with Take the Time or Voices, or throw in an instrumental to give James a break. However, piping in lead vocals is not the answer(to me anyway - to some people it doesn’t seem to matter that much)

Just to add, I think they have actually done a pretty good job with tailoring the setlists to make it easier for James - however, there are still a few songs they’ve ve played where it seems like they’re being a bit too optimistic about James being able to handle singing those songs night in and night out.

Offline crystalstars17

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