Live album bullshit thread!!!

[Glasser]

In fairness, Bayshore is less than 40 miles from Long Beach.

The real question is, did Long Beach scream for him?

Judge for yourself:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cW0TYJN7tc (and yeah, it's virtually unlistenable).

My PTSD is flaring up after listening to that....... Again. 

[Glasser]

The real question is, did Long Beach scream for him?

The entire small crowd, self included, was completely confused and shocked. That was the mood in the room, I'll never forget it. On some level it was a historic event to be at as a DT fan (and friend of the band at that time). They were so excited before the show. Just awful.

[The Curious Orange]

Even though James doesn’t sound great on OIALT, I actually think the sound of the band on that album is better than LSFNY or Budokon which both sound kind of wimpy to me. The drums especially always sounded squashed on LSFNY.

Live at the Marquee is still DT's best sounding live album.

[The Letter M]

Even though James doesn’t sound great on OIALT, I actually think the sound of the band on that album is better than LSFNY or Budokon which both sound kind of wimpy to me. The drums especially always sounded squashed on LSFNY.

Live at the Marquee is still DT's best sounding live album.

There's probaby a very good reason Live At The Marquee sounds as good as it does but I can't be too sure...

-Marc.

[hefdaddy42]

Even though James doesn’t sound great on OIALT, I actually think the sound of the band on that album is better than LSFNY or Budokon which both sound kind of wimpy to me. The drums especially always sounded squashed on LSFNY.

Live at the Marquee is still DT's best sounding live album.

And that's why bands touch up live recordings before releasing them.

[Setlist Scotty]

Even though James doesn’t sound great on OIALT, I actually think the sound of the band on that album is better than LSFNY or Budokon which both sound kind of wimpy to me. The drums especially always sounded squashed on LSFNY.

Live at the Marquee is still DT's best sounding live album.

There's probaby a very good reason Live At The Marquee sounds as good as it does but I can't be too sure...

WHAT?!? Are you claiming they overdubbed somethings on that release!??!?!

Seriously, yeah. I don't know if you know this Curious Orange, but it's a well known and established fact that ALL of JL's vocals for that release were redone in the studio after the fact. Sounds great, but at least 20% of it is anything but live.

[hefdaddy42]

Even though James doesn’t sound great on OIALT, I actually think the sound of the band on that album is better than LSFNY or Budokon which both sound kind of wimpy to me. The drums especially always sounded squashed on LSFNY.

Live at the Marquee is still DT's best sounding live album.

There's probaby a very good reason Live At The Marquee sounds as good as it does but I can't be too sure...

WHAT?!? Are you claiming they overdubbed somethings on that release!??!?!

Perish the thought.

[Setlist Scotty]

Even though James doesn’t sound great on OIALT, I actually think the sound of the band on that album is better than LSFNY or Budokon which both sound kind of wimpy to me. The drums especially always sounded squashed on LSFNY.

Live at the Marquee is still DT's best sounding live album.

There's probaby a very good reason Live At The Marquee sounds as good as it does but I can't be too sure...

WHAT?!? Are you claiming they overdubbed somethings on that release!??!?!

Perish the thought.

But it is pretty bad if they had to have JL re-record all his vocals after the fact. Between that and I believe the re-recording of a good portion of JL's vocals for the live tracks on ACoS, I wouldn't doubt that's part of the reason why OiaL and subsequent live releases had far more sparing work done to the vocals.

[HOF]

Even though James doesn’t sound great on OIALT, I actually think the sound of the band on that album is better than LSFNY or Budokon which both sound kind of wimpy to me. The drums especially always sounded squashed on LSFNY.

Live at the Marquee is still DT's best sounding live album.

There's probaby a very good reason Live At The Marquee sounds as good as it does but I can't be too sure...

WHAT?!? Are you claiming they overdubbed somethings on that release!??!?!

Perish the thought.

But it is pretty bad if they had to have JL re-record all his vocals after the fact. Between that and I believe the re-recording of a good portion of JL's vocals for the live tracks on ACoS, I wouldn't doubt that's part of the reason why OiaL and subsequent live releases had far more sparing work done to the vocals.

I'd never heard that about the live tracks on ACoS. A shame because I always just assumed James sounded really good that night (and maybe those songs were a little easier to pull off live for him).

[Setlist Scotty]

Even though James doesn’t sound great on OIALT, I actually think the sound of the band on that album is better than LSFNY or Budokon which both sound kind of wimpy to me. The drums especially always sounded squashed on LSFNY.

Live at the Marquee is still DT's best sounding live album.

There's probaby a very good reason Live At The Marquee sounds as good as it does but I can't be too sure...

WHAT?!? Are you claiming they overdubbed somethings on that release!??!?!

Perish the thought.

But it is pretty bad if they had to have JL re-record all his vocals after the fact. Between that and I believe the re-recording of a good portion of JL's vocals for the live tracks on ACoS, I wouldn't doubt that's part of the reason why OiaL and subsequent live releases had far more sparing work done to the vocals.

I'd never heard that about the live tracks on ACoS. A shame because I always just assumed James sounded really good that night (and maybe those songs were a little easier to pull off live for him).

Well, there's a soundboard recording of the full Uncovered show circulating. You can listen to it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQhkAptEsRQ

I've never personally done a careful A/B comparison between the two, but I know others have commented about it in the past. And I know that the vocals were missing during the first part of Love Lies Bleeding, so they had to be redone.

[Architeuthis]

Then you get a band like Symphony X that won't put out a live album or dvd. 🙃

[The Letter M]

Then you get a band like Symphony X that won't put out a live album or dvd. 🙃

Yeah, I've noticed that they've only ever had one live album, and it was so long ago too.

-Marc.

[Stadler]

Even though James doesn’t sound great on OIALT, I actually think the sound of the band on that album is better than LSFNY or Budokon which both sound kind of wimpy to me. The drums especially always sounded squashed on LSFNY.

Live at the Marquee is still DT's best sounding live album.

There's probaby a very good reason Live At The Marquee sounds as good as it does but I can't be too sure...

WHAT?!? Are you claiming they overdubbed somethings on that release!??!?!

Perish the thought.

But it is pretty bad if they had to have JL re-record all his vocals after the fact. Between that and I believe the re-recording of a good portion of JL's vocals for the live tracks on ACoS, I wouldn't doubt that's part of the reason why OiaL and subsequent live releases had far more sparing work done to the vocals.

I'd never heard that about the live tracks on ACoS. A shame because I always just assumed James sounded really good that night (and maybe those songs were a little easier to pull off live for him).

Well, there's a soundboard recording of the full Uncovered show circulating. You can listen to it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQhkAptEsRQ

I've never personally done a careful A/B comparison between the two, but I know others have commented about it in the past. And I know that the vocals were missing during the first part of Love Lies Bleeding, so they had to be redone.

I have long wished that the Ytsejam/LNFA releases would someday encompass the Ronnie Scott's show, and the shows that made up the OIALT set.   I know they are out there, but i'm not a huge bootleg guy, and would rather give the money to the band for the "official" release.

[The Curious Orange]

I'm fully aware Marquee was overdubbed. But the album has a great mix and sound, regardless of whether it was overdubbed or not. I was at both of the Hammersmith shows and JLB was screeching like a cat, yet on Distant Memories he sounds OK, I assume that was overdubbed too, but it still doesn't sound as good as Live at the Marquee. Surely ALL of DT's live albums have at least some level of overdubbing? In which case, I stand by my original comment.

[faizoff]

I personally love Marquee's instrument mix. I went years listening to that record without knowing that the vocals were dubbed over, but in retrospect makes sense as I kept thinking at that time JLB really knocked it out of the park with that one.

[Zook]

There's been speculation that Iced Earth's Alive in Athens has had heavy post production work done to it, but even if that's true, it still sounds incredible, and very much live, with some mistakes included.

Unfortunately I haven't had the desire to listen to any Iced Earth for the past year.

[sfam2112]

Live at Budokan, however, is warts and all, no?

Actually, close but not quite. There's four overdubs on it, according to MP's audio commentary for his L@B drumcam DVD.

- JR's rig went down as the show started so he had to redo the first minute or so of As I Am.

- James has one overdub in As I Am somewhere in the second verse when his voice cracked on a line. He redid it while still at the Budokan after the audience let out.

- MP overdubbed JLB's shaker in Hollow Years at Kevin Shirley's suggestion.

- MP botched a fill in Solitary Shell that he "couldn't live with" so he redid it.

[Grappler]

There's been speculation that Iced Earth's Alive in Athens has had heavy post production work done to it, but even if that's true, it still sounds incredible, and very much live, with some mistakes included.

Unfortunately I haven't had the desire to listen to any Iced Earth for the past year.

It took me about 10 months, then listening to the band felt normal again.  I've never read anything about overdubs on Alive in Athens, though, I generally expect bands to do some on most live records. 

It doesn't really bother me too much, though cutting and pasting Bruce's vocals into some choruses on Iron Maiden's Rock in Rio was goofy.  Same with Halford putting in crowd noise on some live soundcheck performances on Live Insurrection.  But it still feels live to me.

[Setlist Scotty]

I'm fully aware Marquee was overdubbed. But the album has a great mix and sound, regardless of whether it was overdubbed or not. I was at both of the Hammersmith shows and JLB was screeching like a cat, yet on Distant Memories he sounds OK, I assume that was overdubbed too, but it still doesn't sound as good as Live at the Marquee. Surely ALL of DT's live albums have at least some level of overdubbing? In which case, I stand by my original comment.

I think I've already said this earlier in this thread, but I (and I imagine most others) don't have a problem with minimal fixing where there are flaws, such as when the guitar dropped out during UaGM at the Score show and the examples in L@B that sfam2112 cited. But when the whole performance has to be redone in the studio after the fact, that's a whole other story.

[Zook]

There's been speculation that Iced Earth's Alive in Athens has had heavy post production work done to it, but even if that's true, it still sounds incredible, and very much live, with some mistakes included.

Unfortunately I haven't had the desire to listen to any Iced Earth for the past year.

It took me about 10 months, then listening to the band felt normal again.  I've never read anything about overdubs on Alive in Athens, though, I generally expect bands to do some on most live records. 

It doesn't really bother me too much, though cutting and pasting Bruce's vocals into some choruses on Iron Maiden's Rock in Rio was goofy.  Same with Halford putting in crowd noise on some live soundcheck performances on Live Insurrection.  But it still feels live to me.

I wish I didn't know about the copy and paste thing on Rock in Rio because it's so obvious once you know, and it's as you said, goofy. It's probably the most unnecessary thing to do. I get syncing the crowd, but once that's done, there's no need to paste Bruce over top of it.

[wolfking]

There's been speculation that Iced Earth's Alive in Athens has had heavy post production work done to it, but even if that's true, it still sounds incredible, and very much live, with some mistakes included.

Unfortunately I haven't had the desire to listen to any Iced Earth for the past year.

It took me about 10 months, then listening to the band felt normal again.  I've never read anything about overdubs on Alive in Athens, though, I generally expect bands to do some on most live records. 

It doesn't really bother me too much, though cutting and pasting Bruce's vocals into some choruses on Iron Maiden's Rock in Rio was goofy.  Same with Halford putting in crowd noise on some live soundcheck performances on Live Insurrection.  But it still feels live to me.

I wish I didn't know about the copy and paste thing on Rock in Rio because it's so obvious once you know, and it's as you said, goofy. It's probably the most unnecessary thing to do. I get syncing the crowd, but once that's done, there's no need to paste Bruce over top of it.

Pretty sure there's a part in the Clansman during the crowd interaction bit where his voice overlaps itself.

[wolfking]

There's been speculation that Iced Earth's Alive in Athens has had heavy post production work done to it, but even if that's true, it still sounds incredible, and very much live, with some mistakes included.

Unfortunately I haven't had the desire to listen to any Iced Earth for the past year.

It took me about 10 months, then listening to the band felt normal again.  I've never read anything about overdubs on Alive in Athens, though, I generally expect bands to do some on most live records. 

It doesn't really bother me too much, though cutting and pasting Bruce's vocals into some choruses on Iron Maiden's Rock in Rio was goofy.  Same with Halford putting in crowd noise on some live soundcheck performances on Live Insurrection.  But it still feels live to me.

I reckon all the rhythm guitars are Jon.  Was Larry really that fucking tight and in sync with Jons rhythm?  I'm skeptical.

[TAC]

I thought it was common knowledge that Alive In Athens was heavily overdubbed. I actually just listened to it last week. There's no way that is a live rhythm guitar track.

Still, it's an amazing listen.

I feel the same way about Live At The Marquee. Since it's basically an EP, I can get past the studio vocals.

[Zook]

I thought it was common knowledge that Alive In Athens was heavily overdubbed. I actually just listened to it last week. There's no way that is a live rhythm guitar track.

Still, it's an amazing listen.

I feel the same way about Live At The Marquee. Since it's basically an EP, I can get past the studio vocals.

Jon has a reputation for being able to play rhythm exactly the same when recording. Maybe he redid Larry's parts and didn't tell him. He cares way more about rhythm than solos so maybe that's why he didn't fix the sloppy ones. It was mainly Randy's solos that Larry fucked up. He was pretty on point with his own.

Common speculation. There's no evidence of major post production work. I think someone said once they had first hand knowledge, but again, no direct evidence.

[Stadler]

There's been speculation that Iced Earth's Alive in Athens has had heavy post production work done to it, but even if that's true, it still sounds incredible, and very much live, with some mistakes included.

Unfortunately I haven't had the desire to listen to any Iced Earth for the past year.

It took me about 10 months, then listening to the band felt normal again.  I've never read anything about overdubs on Alive in Athens, though, I generally expect bands to do some on most live records. 

It doesn't really bother me too much, though cutting and pasting Bruce's vocals into some choruses on Iron Maiden's Rock in Rio was goofy.  Same with Halford putting in crowd noise on some live soundcheck performances on Live Insurrection.  But it still feels live to me.

I wish I didn't know about the copy and paste thing on Rock in Rio because it's so obvious once you know, and it's as you said, goofy. It's probably the most unnecessary thing to do. I get syncing the crowd, but once that's done, there's no need to paste Bruce over top of it.

I always assumed Maiden's live stuff was live; except for the infamous "Remember Tomorrow" b-side.   There are some dodgy live Bruce vocals out there.  Can you give an example from the Rock In Rio show (a show I have but am not note-for-note familiar with it)?

[Zook]

There's been speculation that Iced Earth's Alive in Athens has had heavy post production work done to it, but even if that's true, it still sounds incredible, and very much live, with some mistakes included.

Unfortunately I haven't had the desire to listen to any Iced Earth for the past year.

It took me about 10 months, then listening to the band felt normal again.  I've never read anything about overdubs on Alive in Athens, though, I generally expect bands to do some on most live records. 

It doesn't really bother me too much, though cutting and pasting Bruce's vocals into some choruses on Iron Maiden's Rock in Rio was goofy.  Same with Halford putting in crowd noise on some live soundcheck performances on Live Insurrection.  But it still feels live to me.

I wish I didn't know about the copy and paste thing on Rock in Rio because it's so obvious once you know, and it's as you said, goofy. It's probably the most unnecessary thing to do. I get syncing the crowd, but once that's done, there's no need to paste Bruce over top of it.

I always assumed Maiden's live stuff was live; except for the infamous "Remember Tomorrow" b-side.   There are some dodgy live Bruce vocals out there.  Can you give an example from the Rock In Rio show (a show I have but am not note-for-note familiar with it)?

During the intro to Fear of the Dark, when Bruce says "you" to the audience, they overdub him on top of them with his line from a few seconds earlier. It makes no sense because he's signaling to the audience to sing it, so why put him on top, when throughout the rest of the show the audience is singing all kinds of lines by themselves.

[Grappler]

Larry was really good live.  There is plenty of bootleg footage from 98/99 and 01 that verifies it.  One of the reasons that Jon hired him was that he could keep up with him on rhythm guitar.

[wolfking]

Larry was really good live.  There is plenty of bootleg footage from 98/99 and 01 that verifies it.  One of the reasons that Jon hired him was that he could keep up with him on rhythm guitar.

Fair play then.  Maybe I'm talking out my ass.

[wolfking]

There's been speculation that Iced Earth's Alive in Athens has had heavy post production work done to it, but even if that's true, it still sounds incredible, and very much live, with some mistakes included.

Unfortunately I haven't had the desire to listen to any Iced Earth for the past year.

It took me about 10 months, then listening to the band felt normal again.  I've never read anything about overdubs on Alive in Athens, though, I generally expect bands to do some on most live records. 

It doesn't really bother me too much, though cutting and pasting Bruce's vocals into some choruses on Iron Maiden's Rock in Rio was goofy.  Same with Halford putting in crowd noise on some live soundcheck performances on Live Insurrection.  But it still feels live to me.

I wish I didn't know about the copy and paste thing on Rock in Rio because it's so obvious once you know, and it's as you said, goofy. It's probably the most unnecessary thing to do. I get syncing the crowd, but once that's done, there's no need to paste Bruce over top of it.

I always assumed Maiden's live stuff was live; except for the infamous "Remember Tomorrow" b-side.   There are some dodgy live Bruce vocals out there.  Can you give an example from the Rock In Rio show (a show I have but am not note-for-note familiar with it)?

From the top of my head, check the 'not gonna take anymore' section.  Bruce signals to the crowd but keeps signing.

From memory, Steve didn't like how out of time the crowd were during the times Bruce asked the crowd to sing.  He simply then cut and pasted Bruce's already sung vocals from earlier in the songs over those sections.

[Setlist Scotty]

From memory, Steve didn't like how out of time the crowd were during the times Bruce asked the crowd to sing.  He simply then cut and pasted Bruce's already sung vocals from earlier in the songs over those sections.

Because it wouldn't have made more sense to just shift the crowd singing up a few seconds instead?   

[Zook]

From memory, Steve didn't like how out of time the crowd were during the times Bruce asked the crowd to sing.  He simply then cut and pasted Bruce's already sung vocals from earlier in the songs over those sections.

Because it wouldn't have made more sense to just shift the crowd singing up a few seconds instead?   

He did though. The crowd singing on Dream of Mirrors is noticeably out of sync on the live stream, where it's not on the official release.

[Glasser]

I didn't know this was officially released.

https://www.qobuz.com/us-en/album/dying-to-live-forever-1993-dream-theater/aplhqwg4d6tqb

[TAC]

I didn't know this was officially released.

https://www.qobuz.com/us-en/album/dying-to-live-forever-1993-dream-theater/aplhqwg4d6tqb

Hardly official.

What show is that?

[Glasser]

 

Lords of Sound is amazing.
Tokyo Dragons is nice packaging, good quality.


*** Sorry for my awful photography "skills".

[TAC]

What show is that?