Author Topic: Dr Strange in The Multiverse of Madness --- SPOILERS ALLOWED ---  (Read 18940 times)

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Online Adami

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Re: Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness - NO SPOILERS…yet
« Reply #105 on: May 09, 2022, 05:26:51 PM »
Adami, I think it's more of fans reaching a climax of Endgame.  Fans were on such a euphoric high, that nothing compares to the ending of the 1st run. (4th phase)

No it’s just not a very good script. It has SUCH great moments but just fell apart. I’m a comics guy. I don’t need this to be the height of Endgame. I just need a well constructed story and well written script which this was CLOSE to having but just didnt get.
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Re: Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness - NO SPOILERS…yet
« Reply #106 on: May 09, 2022, 05:33:10 PM »
There were some like that as well in the 1st run.  People rated them higher than they should have.
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Online Adami

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Re: Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness - NO SPOILERS…yet
« Reply #107 on: May 09, 2022, 05:51:21 PM »
There were some like that as well in the 1st run.  People rated them higher than they should have.

I don’t. I’d definitely put this movie above things like Iron Man 2, Thor 2, Captain Marvel, Hulk, etc.  others too. I just think mistakes at the beginning and the same mistakes 13 years later can’t be seen the same. You know? You expect them to learn and improve. Which they largely have. The last few, not counting Spider Man have just been a step backwards. Hopefully they correct that.
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Offline Melphina

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Re: Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness - NO SPOILERS…yet
« Reply #108 on: May 09, 2022, 05:54:26 PM »
Cool. Thanks for the detailed response, bosk. I understand totally why you take issue with those things. I agree with a lot of it too although I just happen to enjoy the phase 4 films personally. I agree Eternals stinks. Bottom tier Marvel film for me, right there with the first two Thors and a few others.

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Re: Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness - NO SPOILERS…yet
« Reply #109 on: May 09, 2022, 09:16:55 PM »
Adami, I think it's more of fans reaching a climax of Endgame.  Fans were on such a euphoric high, that nothing compares to the ending of the 1st run. (4th phase)

That's an excellent point... We expect that level from them cause shit they've done it already, without having the patience to let them spend another 20 movies to build to said climax. We're forgetting on the way to Endgame we had to sit through Thor 2,Iron man 2&3,Hulk etc.

Offline DoctorAction

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Re: Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness - NO SPOILERS…yet
« Reply #110 on: May 10, 2022, 05:43:51 AM »
Adami, I think it's more of fans reaching a climax of Endgame.  Fans were on such a euphoric high, that nothing compares to the ending of the 1st run. (4th phase)

That's an excellent point... We expect that level from them cause shit they've done it already, without having the patience to let them spend another 20 movies to build to said climax. We're forgetting on the way to Endgame we had to sit through Thor 2,Iron man 2&3,Hulk etc.

Agree completely. Possibly nothing they ever do again will end up like Infinity War and Endgame.

When the MCU is knocking it out of the park, they marry genuinely moving emotion with crazy comic book fantasy but it's the former that separates a fun film from a great film.

I like Stephen Strange well enough as a character, for example, but I've not got much emotional investment in him. Not like I do with Thor/Stark/Quill/Romanov/Banner, etc. The thing they need to do from here on is generate that emotional attachment to their current characters, and that's going to take a while.
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Offline Dream Team

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Re: Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness - NO SPOILERS…yet
« Reply #111 on: May 10, 2022, 08:16:15 AM »
Adami, I think it's more of fans reaching a climax of Endgame.  Fans were on such a euphoric high, that nothing compares to the ending of the 1st run. (4th phase)

That's an excellent point... We expect that level from them cause shit they've done it already, without having the patience to let them spend another 20 movies to build to said climax. We're forgetting on the way to Endgame we had to sit through Thor 2,Iron man 2&3,Hulk etc.

Agree completely. Possibly nothing they ever do again will end up like Infinity War and Endgame.

When the MCU is knocking it out of the park, they marry genuinely moving emotion with crazy comic book fantasy but it's the former that separates a fun film from a great film.

I like Stephen Strange well enough as a character, for example, but I've not got much emotional investment in him. Not like I do with Thor/Stark/Quill/Romanov/Banner, etc. The thing they need to do from here on is generate that emotional attachment to their current characters, and that's going to take a while.

This bolded part is what pisses me off SO MUCH about assholes like Jamie Lee Curtis coming out and shitting on Marvel. Did she watch the movie? Lizzie Olsen can act that bitch right off the stage anytime. JLC, your most famous movies are from a slasher genre. Give me a break. I guarantee that almost all of the washed up actors in Hollywood dissing Marvel have never watched an entire movie of it. Jennifer Aniston a few years came out with some lame critiques and she's made forgettable trash almost exclusively. Pure jealousy plain and simple.

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Re: Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness - NO SPOILERS…yet
« Reply #112 on: May 10, 2022, 08:19:03 AM »
I have no idea what JLC said about Dr. Strange, and I don't care. People can have whatever opinions they have. They don't need to be better than other people to have them.

That said, her recent multiverse movie was considerably better. Not that it was due to her, of course.
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Offline Melphina

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Re: Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness - NO SPOILERS…yet
« Reply #113 on: May 10, 2022, 09:29:43 AM »
I anticipated the "expectations" thing after Endgame. I took a bit of a break after that movie came out and I watched it several times. I got back into it last year when the shows started and I've been approaching phase 4 with a new excitement for letting new stories be built and not going from 0 to 60 with another overarching story. I do like that they have jumped full bore into the multiverse, but haven't actually established the next big threat yet. I'm really excited to see what the next group of Avengers looks like if they go that way since the HQ was annihilated with like half of the east coast in Endgame. Is Avengers Tower still up? What's the aftermath of Stark Industries? Etc...

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Re: Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness - NO SPOILERS…yet
« Reply #114 on: May 10, 2022, 09:39:59 AM »
Adami, I think it's more of fans reaching a climax of Endgame.  Fans were on such a euphoric high, that nothing compares to the ending of the 1st run. (4th phase)

That's an excellent point... We expect that level from them cause shit they've done it already, without having the patience to let them spend another 20 movies to build to said climax. We're forgetting on the way to Endgame we had to sit through Thor 2,Iron man 2&3,Hulk etc.

Agree completely. Possibly nothing they ever do again will end up like Infinity War and Endgame.

When the MCU is knocking it out of the park, they marry genuinely moving emotion with crazy comic book fantasy but it's the former that separates a fun film from a great film.

I like Stephen Strange well enough as a character, for example, but I've not got much emotional investment in him. Not like I do with Thor/Stark/Quill/Romanov/Banner, etc. The thing they need to do from here on is generate that emotional attachment to their current characters, and that's going to take a while.

They did such a good job of that in Wandavision, in creating probably the most complex MCU character by that show's end. My biggest gripe with MoM is how one note they made Wanda following what they did with her character in the show. I mean, a lot of that is the influence of the Dark hold, but still...

Offline Dream Team

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Re: Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness - NO SPOILERS…yet
« Reply #115 on: May 10, 2022, 12:27:33 PM »
I think the main thing is that now she's dealing with the loss of her CHILDREN on top of everything else she had dealt with (they were real to her).

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Re: Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness - NO SPOILERS…yet
« Reply #116 on: May 10, 2022, 12:41:23 PM »
I think the main thing is that now she's dealing with the loss of her CHILDREN on top of everything else she had dealt with (they were real to her).

Indeed. And it makes sense on paper. But ALL of that development took place off screen. And that’s not good writing.
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Offline DoctorAction

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Re: Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness - NO SPOILERS…yet
« Reply #117 on: May 10, 2022, 01:15:37 PM »
WandaVision showed most of the development.

(Edited for poss spoiler removal)
« Last Edit: May 10, 2022, 03:13:11 PM by DoctorAction »
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Online Adami

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Re: Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness - NO SPOILERS…yet
« Reply #118 on: May 10, 2022, 01:22:18 PM »
WandaVision showed most of the development, just not the turn to bad. I really liked it as a twist. I was not expecting her to be the baddie at all so I was chuffed with it.


Spoiler small text

Wandavision did show a lot of development, however development that was largely antithetical to this. At the end of WV she is shown as deeply remorseful and just wanting to do right. Skip to this and she is perfectly happy to murder literally...ANYONE...to get back to her kids and because the Darkhold corrupted her. But again, THAT development completely happened offscreen. As far as we saw, she went from a deeply remorseful good person who made mistakes to a person with no qualms murdering anyone at all and then wanting to rule all of the existence. Not good writing, sadly. If it didn't bug you, that's good. It did bug me, but oddly enough, not the most from this movie.
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Offline DoctorAction

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Re: Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness - NO SPOILERS…yet
« Reply #119 on: May 10, 2022, 03:11:44 PM »
Yeah, I can see how that could bug.

I went in with medium expectations and the movie exceeded them, alongside the general vibe and pace. Was more playful than I expected.
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Offline jammindude

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Re: Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness - NO SPOILERS…yet
« Reply #120 on: May 10, 2022, 04:38:52 PM »
WandaVision showed most of the development, just not the turn to bad. I really liked it as a twist. I was not expecting her to be the baddie at all so I was chuffed with it.


Spoiler small text

Wandavision did show a lot of development, however development that was largely antithetical to this. At the end of WV she is shown as deeply remorseful and just wanting to do right. Skip to this and she is perfectly happy to murder literally...ANYONE...to get back to her kids and because the Darkhold corrupted her. But again, THAT development completely happened offscreen. As far as we saw, she went from a deeply remorseful good person who made mistakes to a person with no qualms murdering anyone at all and then wanting to rule all of the existence. Not good writing, sadly. If it didn't bug you, that's good. It did bug me, but oddly enough, not the most from this movie.

Look…I was as shocked as anyone to discover that AOS is not technically “canon” (when it was still being made…they had the episodes spaced out on the official MCU timeline…that means it was considered canon at one time) but I think AOS was important in establishing the backstory of The Darkhold and what it does to anyone who comes into contact with it. With that back story, her moral shift wasn’t really anything strange at all. In fact, through that lens, I was expecting it from the moment WV ended. No matter how she was behaving at the end, you KNEW that this was going no place good. The Darkhold always corrupts. It’s like “the ring of power”…it’s influence in unavoidable.
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Online Adami

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Re: Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness - NO SPOILERS…yet
« Reply #121 on: May 10, 2022, 04:52:08 PM »
Completely agree JD. But they still did it all off screen. I’m just not okay with that.
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Offline Lonk

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Re: Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness - NO SPOILERS…yet
« Reply #122 on: May 11, 2022, 06:38:26 AM »
I agree with Adami, and that is one of the things that bugged me in the movie. Not because it was all off screen (we got a hint at the end of Wandavision), but because that was established so early in the movie with no warning. They could've extended the wedding scene a little more, show his struggle with the same dreams (Which I guess it cannot be the same every night?), or even given Wanda a bit of time to establish her motives, but all of that happened in the first 20 minutes of the movie, or so. I guess that's in part due to how short the movie is, in comparison to other marvel films.
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Re: Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness - NO SPOILERS…yet
« Reply #123 on: May 11, 2022, 07:32:28 AM »
Why am I blanking on "AOS"?  Afraid of Sunlight? What does Marillion have to do with this?  :) :) :)

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Re: Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness - NO SPOILERS…yet
« Reply #124 on: May 11, 2022, 07:38:12 AM »
Why am I blanking on "AOS"?  Afraid of Sunlight? What does Marillion have to do with this?  :) :) :)

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Re: Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness - NO SPOILERS…yet
« Reply #125 on: May 11, 2022, 07:56:53 AM »
Since Marvel schedules things so far out in advance (into 2025 already for movies right?), I think the only way to bring Wanda back is for a season 2 of WandaVision (maybe it's about her being reunited with White Vision). Here's hoping! She's the hottest thing in the MCU right now, would be a shame to kick her to the curb.

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Re: Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness - NO SPOILERS…yet
« Reply #126 on: May 11, 2022, 08:02:13 AM »
She'll be back... I'm thinking a powered down version from another universe.

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Re: Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness - NO SPOILERS…yet
« Reply #127 on: May 11, 2022, 08:04:18 AM »
She'll be back... I'm thinking a powered down version from another universe.

I sure hope not. At least that last part. I don't want the multiverse used to just replace people whenever. It takes away meaning and depth if you can just grab another variant and move right along.
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Re: Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness - NO SPOILERS…yet
« Reply #128 on: May 11, 2022, 08:10:33 AM »
She'll be back... I'm thinking a powered down version from another universe.

I sure hope not. At least that last part. I don't want the multiverse used to just replace people whenever. It takes away meaning and depth if you can just grab another variant and move right along.

Haven't the comics been doing shit like that forever? How many times has basically everyone died, only to be ressurected in some fashion? They're as bad as soap operas.

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Re: Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness - NO SPOILERS…yet
« Reply #129 on: May 11, 2022, 08:17:15 AM »
She'll be back... I'm thinking a powered down version from another universe.

I sure hope not. At least that last part. I don't want the multiverse used to just replace people whenever. It takes away meaning and depth if you can just grab another variant and move right along.

Haven't the comics been doing shit like that forever? How many times has basically everyone died, only to be ressurected in some fashion? They're as bad as soap operas.

Totally. But different mediums. We're not getting 20 movies a month for 60 years, you know? Can't treat them the same way and expect the same results.
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Offline ZirconBlue

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Re: Doctor Strange in The Multiverse of Madness - NO SPOILERS…yet
« Reply #130 on: May 11, 2022, 08:39:30 AM »
She'll be back... I'm thinking a powered down version from another universe.

I sure hope not. At least that last part. I don't want the multiverse used to just replace people whenever. It takes away meaning and depth if you can just grab another variant and move right along.

Haven't the comics been doing shit like that forever? How many times has basically everyone died, only to be ressurected in some fashion? They're as bad as soap operas.


That's one way in which the movies are better than the comics:  the characters can change, age, and retire/die without an inevitable reboot. 

Offline MinistroRaven

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Re: Dr Strange in The Multiverse of Madness --- SPOILERS ALLOWED ---
« Reply #131 on: May 11, 2022, 12:23:31 PM »
One week since the premiere I guess it is now OK, to discuss spoilers.

IF YOU HAVEN'T WATCHED THE MOVIE YET, BE AWARE THAT DISCUSSION HERE MIGHT WELL INCLUDE SPOILERS

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Re: Dr Strange in The Multiverse of Madness --- SPOILERS ALLOWED ---
« Reply #132 on: May 11, 2022, 01:27:18 PM »
OKAY...so...

I've gone onto YouTube and rewatched clips of Wanda's Illuminati take-down, and watched Black Bolt's scene at 0.25%, and HOLY CRAP is it more brutal than I first thought. Not only can you see the blast of his voice shine through his covered mouth, you can see the initial ejection of blood/fluids through his nose as his eyes glaze over with blood and almost explode out of his face, just as the blast ricochets to the back of his head. As it collapses, you can see blood come out of his nose and cover his eyes just before he falls over, with brain matter oozing down the inside of his mask.

IT...IS...GOREY, without all the explicit blood, and only if you watch it in slow motion, but I did NOT expect it to be as detailed as it is, especially watching a crappy YouTube video. I cannot wait to watch it in glorious HD whenever the BD comes out in a few months.

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Offline DoctorAction

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Re: Dr Strange in The Multiverse of Madness --- SPOILERS ALLOWED ---
« Reply #133 on: May 11, 2022, 04:04:16 PM »
Ew!  :lol

I thought America Chavez was great. I've heard of her but it was my first exposure to the character. She totally fit in with no awkwardness at all. And I loved the star shaped portals. Such a childlike and nerdy comic-book device that they completely pulled off without it seeming out of place.

What else...

The cycloctopus monster was beautiful. And then them pulling it's eyeball out was such great gross-out laughs.

The battling music scene between the Stranges was like Fantasia or something.

The visual treats in the movie generally were amazing. It has something of the big fight scene from GOTG2 or Spider Verse about it - but longer. The part where they fell through tons of universes really quickly, especially.

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Re: Dr Strange in The Multiverse of Madness --- SPOILERS ALLOWED ---
« Reply #134 on: May 11, 2022, 05:02:47 PM »
Pure Marvel, pure Raimi, pure awesome.  Best MCU film of phase 4 and probably in contention for top 5.  Loved it.

Don't really get the complaints about Wonda's heel turn it's obvious her grief and trauma were corrupted by the Darkhold.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2022, 02:11:22 AM by soupytwist »

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Re: Dr Strange in The Multiverse of Madness --- SPOILERS ALLOWED ---
« Reply #135 on: May 12, 2022, 06:16:02 AM »
Pure Marvel, pure Raimi, pure awesome.  Best MCU film of phase 4 and probably in contention for top 5.  Loved it.

Don't really get the complaints about Wonda's heel turn it's obvious her grief and trauma were corrupted by the Darkhold.

It wasn't her heel turn that slightly irked me... It was her constant repetition of it... Kind of reminds me of "I'm the immortal iron fist...."...

We get it Wanda... It's about the kids...


Keep in mind, I loved the movie, but after it I watched the last few episodes of Wandavision and felt like they sold her character short. d

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Re: Dr Strange in The Multiverse of Madness --- SPOILERS ALLOWED ---
« Reply #136 on: May 12, 2022, 06:50:56 AM »
Overall I like the movie. It wasn't top tier MCU or anything, but it as good. I enjoyed the horror aspects of it as something new for the MCU. I agree with most of the criticisms you all have offered, but don't think they diminished the overall movie all that much.

The Illuminati were great. John Krazsinsky was a great nod to fans calling for him in that role. I hope they don't actually reboot Fantastic 4 with him though. Patrick Stewart finally looks like he's aged!

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Re: Dr Strange in The Multiverse of Madness --- SPOILERS ALLOWED ---
« Reply #137 on: May 12, 2022, 07:09:40 AM »
Pure Marvel, pure Raimi, pure awesome.  Best MCU film of phase 4 and probably in contention for top 5.  Loved it.

Don't really get the complaints about Wonda's heel turn it's obvious her grief and trauma were corrupted by the Darkhold.

It wasn't her heel turn that slightly irked me... It was her constant repetition of it... Kind of reminds me of "I'm the immortal iron fist...."...

We get it Wanda... It's about the kids...


Keep in mind, I loved the movie, but after it I watched the last few episodes of Wandavision and felt like they sold her character short. d

Yeah I've seen similar critiques on other review sites. One guy even said they "did her dirty" by removing some of the nuances of her character. Lizzie still crushed it though.

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Re: Dr Strange in The Multiverse of Madness --- SPOILERS ALLOWED ---
« Reply #138 on: May 12, 2022, 09:50:48 AM »
Pure Marvel, pure Raimi, pure awesome.  Best MCU film of phase 4 and probably in contention for top 5.  Loved it.

Don't really get the complaints about Wonda's heel turn it's obvious her grief and trauma were corrupted by the Darkhold.

It wasn't her heel turn that slightly irked me... It was her constant repetition of it... Kind of reminds me of "I'm the immortal iron fist...."...

We get it Wanda... It's about the kids...


Keep in mind, I loved the movie, but after it I watched the last few episodes of Wandavision and felt like they sold her character short. d

Yeah I've seen similar critiques on other review sites. One guy even said they "did her dirty" by removing some of the nuances of her character. Lizzie still crushed it though.

Oh without a doubt... Definitely the best performer in the MCU in my mind.

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Re: Dr Strange in The Multiverse of Madness --- SPOILERS ALLOWED ---
« Reply #139 on: May 13, 2022, 05:25:33 AM »
Pure Marvel, pure Raimi, pure awesome.  Best MCU film of phase 4 and probably in contention for top 5.  Loved it.

Don't really get the complaints about Wonda's heel turn it's obvious her grief and trauma were corrupted by the Darkhold.

It wasn't her heel turn that slightly irked me... It was her constant repetition of it... Kind of reminds me of "I'm the immortal iron fist...."...

We get it Wanda... It's about the kids...


Keep in mind, I loved the movie, but after it I watched the last few episodes of Wandavision and felt like they sold her character short. d

Exactly this