Author Topic: 25 years ago today...  (Read 4871 times)

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Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: 25 years ago today...
« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2021, 08:42:51 PM »
Wasn't Home For The Holidays in '98?

Unfortunately they didn't bring that to Providence or Boston.
Those 98 shows were known by that, but in an unofficial capacity. Officially, the shows were known as "An Intimate Evening With Dream Theater". The HftH shows were the ones that happened after Xmas in 95.
 
 
The spontaneity and unknown about what you might see at a DT concert is long missing.
:tup
It is? See, I think this is overrated. Other than a rotating setlist, the MP Era shows weren't that different. They may have had some improv spots, like Solitary Shell '09, but overall those shows were still pretty straightforward.

The 97-98 shows did seemed to have some spontaneity to them, but I chalk that up to MP being in WTF mode.
I disagree Tim. There was definitely more spontaneity than that. Maybe not so much with the 2005-2010 tours, but for World Tourbulence and the Train of Thought tour there was much more of a "anything can happen" feel of not knowing what's gonna happen next, and that's not just due to the rotating setlists.
 
 
Wasn't Home For The Holidays in '98?

Unfortunately they didn't bring that to Providence or Boston.
I made the trip to Hartford for Home for the Holidays in 1998.  Totally worth the trip.

While it's not new material, DT did play Don't Look Past Me which came as a shock.
Actually they didn't. That wasn't premiered until the last leg of the IWaB tour in 2017. Maybe you're thinking of TLF, Eve, CME, WAYN or TWiUtB? And they didn't play Hartford, but did play New Haven on that brief run of shows.
https://mptour.mikeportnoy.com/dates/MPTourography/ShowList.aspx?tourId=33
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline cramx3

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Re: 25 years ago today...
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2021, 12:57:26 AM »
The spontaneity and unknown about what you might see at a DT concert is long missing.
:tup
It is? See, I think this is overrated. Other than a rotating setlist, the MP Era shows weren't that different. They may have had some improv spots, like Solitary Shell '09, but overall those shows were still pretty straightforward.

The 97-98 shows did seemed to have some spontaneity to them, but I chalk that up to MP being in WTF mode.
I disagree Tim. There was definitely more spontaneity than that. Maybe not so much with the 2005-2010 tours, but for World Tourbulence and the Train of Thought tour there was much more of a "anything can happen" feel of not knowing what's gonna happen next, and that's not just due to the rotating setlists.

I wasn't a fan early on, but even just going back and looking at setlists from  before I became a fan, it was a feeling of "wow I wonder what they played every night of so and so tour" because it was intriguing.  And for my own experiences, I think about the back to back NYC shows from the Prog Nation tour where they did two completely different sets with one night having Repentance with Mikael AKerfeldt and the other night having the drum solo with all the drummers.  DT just doesn't do stuff like that anymore.  Those nights truly felt like "anything can happen". 

And there are still bands out there that give off those feelings from a live show.  It makes me feel like DT could do it again, but it's probably such a large amount of work that the guys would rather perfect their show than take risks and put in much more effort. 

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: 25 years ago today...
« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2021, 07:32:58 AM »
And there are still bands out there that give off those feelings from a live show.  It makes me feel like DT could do it again, but it's probably such a large amount of work that the guys would rather perfect their show than take risks and put in much more effort.
They could, but unfortunately, with JP running the ship, the focus has become more on putting on a production than being a live show as he himself said in his recent appearance on Robb Flynn's podcast.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline cramx3

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Re: 25 years ago today...
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2021, 08:47:22 AM »
And there are still bands out there that give off those feelings from a live show.  It makes me feel like DT could do it again, but it's probably such a large amount of work that the guys would rather perfect their show than take risks and put in much more effort.
They could, but unfortunately, with JP running the ship, the focus has become more on putting on a production than being a live show as he himself said in his recent appearance on Robb Flynn's podcast.

Yup, without him admitting it, you could tell from over the years.  I've been vocal for years here about how I wish they would be more of a "rock" band in the way they perform (no click, GA pit up front, no backing tracks, no ushers in the aisles, rotating sets), but have for a long time now, accepted that will not be the case and try to enjoy it the way they present it the best I can. 

Offline TAC

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Re: 25 years ago today...
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2021, 08:49:02 AM »

The spontaneity and unknown about what you might see at a DT concert is long missing.
:tup
It is? See, I think this is overrated. Other than a rotating setlist, the MP Era shows weren't that different. They may have had some improv spots, like Solitary Shell '09, but overall those shows were still pretty straightforward.

The 97-98 shows did seemed to have some spontaneity to them, but I chalk that up to MP being in WTF mode.
I disagree Tim. There was definitely more spontaneity than that. Maybe not so much with the 2005-2010 tours, but for World Tourbulence and the Train of Thought tour there was much more of a "anything can happen" feel of not knowing what's gonna happen next, and that's not just due to the rotating setlists.
 

The two tours I missed. ;D

Scott, you were there for multiple shows on those tours, so I'll take your word for it. Unfortunately all I have is a bunch of boots from those tours that I have seen and heard.

Sure, you had Rush covers in Toronto and cover albums, but those were planned. I think the internet was less developed than it is now. I'm sure there was a certain amount of mystery going to those shows, but to me, the boots tell me they were fairly straightforward. It's been a while since I did a boot run through those tours though.

I also consider the ToT as the single greatest tour by any band. They had so much better material than the SD's tour and the shows felt more epic.

I'm not saying there was NO spontaneity, or disagreeing that there was more then than there is now. I'm just saying that that aspect of their show was a tad overrated. I didn't see those tours, but I had seen them 10 times up to that point. I never felt..gee anything can happen.

I would motion that those tours you mentioned were the outliers, actually. Not discounting the '97-'98 shows where MP was in Fuck It mode.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline pg1067

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Re: 25 years ago today...
« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2021, 09:37:07 AM »
The spontaneity and unknown about what you might see at a DT concert is long missing.

 :tup

It is? See, I think this is overrated. Other than a rotating setlist, the MP Era shows weren't that different. They may have had some improv spots, like Solitary Shell '09, but overall those shows were still pretty straightforward.

The 97-98 shows did seemed to have some spontaneity to them, but I chalk that up to MP being in WTF mode.

Yup, and the rotating set lists didn't work out well for me more often than not.
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline TAC

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Re: 25 years ago today...
« Reply #41 on: December 09, 2021, 09:47:47 AM »
All setlists were certainly not created equal, I'll give you that.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: 25 years ago today...
« Reply #42 on: December 09, 2021, 10:24:29 AM »
Yup, and the rotating set lists didn't work out well for me more often than not.
Aren't you in LA?
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline pg1067

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Re: 25 years ago today...
« Reply #43 on: December 09, 2021, 03:19:19 PM »
Yup, and the rotating set lists didn't work out well for me more often than not.
Aren't you in LA?

Socal.
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline RaiseTheKnife

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Re: 25 years ago today...
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2021, 04:04:54 PM »
Actually they didn't. That wasn't premiered until the last leg of the IWaB tour in 2017. Maybe you're thinking of TLF, Eve, CME, WAYN or TWiUtB? And they didn't play Hartford, but did play New Haven on that brief run of shows.
https://mptour.mikeportnoy.com/dates/MPTourography/ShowList.aspx?tourId=33

Oops, I didn't mean to suggest that they played Don't Look Past in 1998, but rather I was making a separate comment to TAC's post above mine on spontaneity.  Should have double-quoted, but that formatting attempt would probably take me over my skis.

EDIT:  But I can certainly see how my statement was confusing.

Offline TAC

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Re: 25 years ago today...
« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2021, 04:06:10 PM »
Yeah, those are some mad skis! :lol
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: 25 years ago today...
« Reply #46 on: December 09, 2021, 04:43:45 PM »
Yup, and the rotating set lists didn't work out well for me more often than not.
Aren't you in LA?
Socal.
I used to live in Sandy Eggo, so I probably hit all the same shows as you, but I thought all the setlists - especially for the LA shows - were always top notch. Then again, looking at the current DT survivor threads, we seem to be almost diametrically opposed on our favorites from each album, so I guess that would explain it.  :P
 
 
Yeah, those are some mad skis! :lol
Downhill or cross country?   :lol
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: 25 years ago today...
« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2021, 07:48:03 PM »
All setlists were certainly not created equal, I'll give you that.

True that.  It was always fun to follow the tour online to see what the set lists were for every show, but there were definitely ones where it was like, "Jeez, I am glad I wasn't at that one."  :lol :lol

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: 25 years ago today...
« Reply #48 on: December 09, 2021, 08:05:36 PM »
All setlists were certainly not created equal, I'll give you that.
True that.  It was always fun to follow the tour online to see what the set lists were for every show, but there were definitely ones where it was like, "Jeez, I am glad I wasn't at that one."  :lol :lol
That might be true, but then there could be someone who's favorite tracks are the complete opposite of yours that thought it was the best setlist ever. Hard to please all the fans all the time. But even if they weren't always to everyone's liking, MP deserves major props for investing all the time and energy that he did to make sure that each setlist was not only significantly different from other shows within the vicinity (relatively speaking), but also from when they performed in the same city on previous tours.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: 25 years ago today...
« Reply #49 on: December 09, 2021, 08:09:39 PM »
All setlists were certainly not created equal, I'll give you that.
True that.  It was always fun to follow the tour online to see what the set lists were for every show, but there were definitely ones where it was like, "Jeez, I am glad I wasn't at that one."  :lol :lol
That might be true, but then there could be someone who's favorite tracks are the complete opposite of yours that thought it was the best setlist ever. Hard to please all the fans all the time. But even if they weren't always to everyone's liking, MP deserves major props for investing all the time and energy that he did to make sure that each setlist was not only significantly different from other shows within the vicinity (relatively speaking), but also from when they performed in the same city on previous tours.

Well, let's be serious, making up different set lists isn't that difficult or time-consuming, but it was always cool when random stuff got unexpectedly played out of nowhere.  I think Petrucci has mostly done a great job with them in the last 10 years, but it would be cool to see a slot or two a night left open to where anything could be played instead of the exact same set list every night.  The way Rush did it on their last few tours where most of the set list stayed the same, but a handful of spots were rotated each night, is the way to go.

Offline TAC

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Re: 25 years ago today...
« Reply #50 on: December 09, 2021, 08:15:44 PM »

That might be true, but then there could be someone who's favorite tracks are the complete opposite of yours that thought it was the best setlist ever.
Yes, this is true.  Can't argue there.  ;D


But even if they weren't always to everyone's liking, MP deserves major props for investing all the time and energy that he did to make sure that each setlist was not only significantly different from other shows within the vicinity (relatively speaking), but also from when they performed in the same city on previous tours.

Oh hell yes, I agree.



And as Kev says, the setlists over the last decade have been pretty damn good with lots of variety from tour to tour.
I do think the rotating setlists was one of the coolest things they did though.

Still, it'd be cool to see them do something different every now and then, like the obligatory Rush cover in Toronto.

would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline gzarruk

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Re: 25 years ago today...
« Reply #51 on: December 09, 2021, 08:47:31 PM »
I'd say it's impressive that they've played a little over half of the MP era catalog live with MM, while still managing to include most of their new material with Mangini for each tour.

My only real complaint about their current setlists is that they've been playing AIA, PMU and TSCO A LOT during this era, and I'd bet that's mostly JP's call.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline pg1067

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Re: 25 years ago today...
« Reply #52 on: December 10, 2021, 10:06:27 AM »
But even if they weren't always to everyone's liking, MP deserves major props for investing all the time and energy that he did to make sure that each setlist was not only significantly different from other shows within the vicinity (relatively speaking), but also from when they performed in the same city on previous tours.

I mean...yes and no.  I give him credit for thinking of the fans, but I think a lot of the things he did were designed to benefit a small minority of fans, often to the detriment of the majority.  For example, who finds it valuable if the set list for a show in Los Angeles is "significantly different" than the set list for a show in San Diego two days later?  The answer, of course, is that someone who attends both shows might find that valuable.  However, let's say that both venues have a capacity of 5,000.  How many folks are attending both shows?  Maybe 50-100?  Now let's say that there are 2,500 fans who see Song X in the San Diego set list and get excited about that.  However, because of the rotating set list, they get Song B instead.  Sucks to be the 2,500, but at least the 50-100 are happy.  Of course, there may also be folks who are more excited about Song B than Song A, but you get the point.

As far as having a set list that is "significantly different . . . from when they performed in the same city on previous tours," that's a mixed bag too, because it's completely possible to swap out a song that I really want to hear for one I don't.  PG:  "They didn't play Metropolis.  That sucks."  SS:  "Yeah, but they played The Great Debate."  PG:  "Well, at least that gave me an opportunity to duck out and use the restroom."


Well, let's be serious, making up different set lists isn't that difficult or time-consuming, but it was always cool when random stuff got unexpectedly played out of nowhere.  I think Petrucci has mostly done a great job with them in the last 10 years, but it would be cool to see a slot or two a night left open to where anything could be played instead of the exact same set list every night.  The way Rush did it on their last few tours where most of the set list stayed the same, but a handful of spots were rotated each night, is the way to go.

It's not the making of the set lists that is time consuming.  Rather, it's the maintaining of the records to allow you to know what was played on prior tours.  That's the thing for me...MP spent so much time on this stuff, but I think it had very little tangible payoff.


My only real complaint about their current setlists is that they've been playing AIA, PMU and TSCO A LOT during this era, and I'd bet that's mostly JP's call.

Of the five MM-era shows I've seen (none of which were on the TA tour), they've done AIA once, PMU thrice and TSCO only at the SFAM anniversary show.  While I'm not the biggest PMU fan (simply because they have so much else that I like better), it's their Tom Sawyer, and it always goes over well live.
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline cramx3

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Re: 25 years ago today...
« Reply #53 on: December 10, 2021, 10:22:28 AM »
I will +1 to what others have been saying, that even though the tour setlists are mostly static now, JP has done a great job of mixing them up each tour so we do get a crazy amount of variety over the years since MM joined.  I also very much applaud the effort of sneaking in those rare songs on the US leg of the I&W&B tour. Sucks the audiences non reaction nixed Don't Look Past Me by the time I caught the tour but at least getting To Live Forever was awesome (even if it's not a favorite track of mine). 

On that note, I should add that IMO, it was a wrong choice to cut some TA songs from the set to make room for a couple of the "classics".  The right move was always to tack those onto an encore at the end of TA.  That wouldn't of even pushed those concerts to 3 hours and would have made everyone happy.  I really didn't understand that decision.  I'd be so pissed if I went to a TA show and they almost played the whole thing.  It would just feel off to me. But then again, I was a relatively big TA fan.

Offline gzarruk

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Re: 25 years ago today...
« Reply #54 on: December 10, 2021, 02:21:23 PM »
IIRC, the reason they shelved some songs from TA and played the three classics I listed on my previous post was because the 2nd US leg of the tour got booked wrong and they ended up playing almost the same areas than the 1st, but with the same exact set/show, so audiences weren't as big as they expected.

But, yeah, it would've sucked to get almost all of TA, but not TA in full, only to get some of their most played songs ever.

My only real complaint about their current setlists is that they've been playing AIA, PMU and TSCO A LOT during this era, and I'd bet that's mostly JP's call.

Of the five MM-era shows I've seen (none of which were on the TA tour), they've done AIA once, PMU thrice and TSCO only at the SFAM anniversary show.  While I'm not the biggest PMU fan (simply because they have so much else that I like better), it's their Tom Sawyer, and it always goes over well live.


I'd say you just got lucky :P

If we list all their tours since 2011, we have:

1. ADTOE Tour: PMU, TSCO, AIA - depending on the tour leg
2. AFTR Tour: PMU (festivals only)
3. 30th Anniversary Tour: TSCO, AIA
4. TA Tour: PMU, TSCO, AIA - 2nd US leg
5. IW&B Tour: PMU, AIA, TSCO (first couple shows and then it replaced TLF)
6. D/T SFAM tour: PMU (first US leg), TSCO, AIA (festivals only)

But these are just nitpicks, really. Like I said before I did the math a while ago and since 2011 they've played live a little bit over 50% of the back catalog, and that is counting all the b-sides/non album tracks. They've played most of the MM era catalog too. That's quite impressive for a band with as much material as they have.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline AnotherDimension

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Re: 25 years ago today...
« Reply #55 on: December 15, 2021, 01:02:41 AM »
I was at the show at Toad's Place in New Haven. It was my second show after seeing them at their second date in New London for the Home for the Holidays show the previous year.

Scotty, my name is Mark and we've met a number of times at shows in LA. I think you even complimented me on my Home for the Holidays or Fix for 96 long sleave that I wore to an SFAM date at the HOB in LA in 2000.

I really loved the Fix for 96 shows. I think I was aware they were gonna play new songs. I may have been surprised they didn't play Raise the Knife as that was a title floating around since 95. I remember being really into the new arrangements of the older songs. I loved that they didn't play all of ACOS straight through as I didn't really love that song at that time. Though revisiting it throughout the show was an inspired idea. And I actually would have thought it was even cooler if they actually revisited it a few more times and played the whole song. It was also the first time I'd heard "Another Hand" and I loved that. Burning My Soul and LITS were early favorites. I also preferred the more power ballad of TAMP to what ended up on FII. I remember all the arrangements so well as I had a bootleg copy of the New Haven show, but I think I lost it in 98. Scotty, do you have a copy of that show?

A few years later when they did the more stripped down shows around the holidays I remember there were disappointed fans who didn't know the shows were going to be special ones, and I was surprised that people weren't more aware. But then not everyone at those shows were on the YtseJam mailing list.

Offline ytserush

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Re: 25 years ago today...
« Reply #56 on: December 18, 2021, 07:59:16 PM »
Old Bridge, New Jersey show for me in '96! :metal

December 14, 1996 Birch Hell
December 15, 1996 Rush Meadowlands Arena.

It was quite the weekend.

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: 25 years ago today...
« Reply #57 on: December 19, 2021, 09:27:35 PM »
Old Bridge, New Jersey show for me in '96! :metal

December 14, 1996 Birch Hell
December 15, 1996 Rush Meadowlands Arena.

It was quite the weekend.
Now that is quite the 1-2 punch right there!   :tup
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.