Jordans solos on new album

[Peter1960]

Given the album has been out for a month now, I am sure this topic has already been posted / commented on but I could not face going through all the other threads to see if it has.

Overall, a really good album, I feel, has been ruined by Jordan's soloing, particularly on The Alien and the title track. He seems to want to play as fast as possible without paying attention to the notes he is using -  he is almost the keyboard equivalent of Iron Maiden's Janick Gers (who is a terrible player, in my opinion).

On DOT Jordan played some solos on organ, which were a refreshing change from his signature synth solo sound. However, this was back with a vengeance on the new album, and not sounding very pleasant, to my ears anyway.

in the documentary on the Artbook bluray, Jordan proudly showed off the Minimoog that he used on the album. I am not sure what tracks it was used on but why didn't he use it for some of the solos when he was competing with JP ? The Minimoog is the best synth ever made, with its own unique sound, which would have sounded amazing, even with Jordan's over the top approach.

I have felt for a number of years that whilst being a technically outstanding all round player, Jordan's soloing is his weakness, certainly when comparing him to Kevin, Derek, or rock keyboard players in other bands. I realise that in a progressive metal band like DT the keyboard solos need to be aggressive and able to cut through; however, please Jordan, can we have some more melody, subtlety and different sounds now and again ?

The best solo on the current album is the honky tonk bit on Sleeping Giant -  because its different !

I am surprised JP has allowed him to get away with this approach for so long. What do others think ?

[lovethedrake]

I try to just focus on the underlying instrumentation and rhythm while Jordan solos.  Then it just sounds like background music.  If you focus solely on the solo itself you will be underwhelmed by 90% of his solos.

However, I do think he’s doing a lot of great stuff in the background on this album. I love the organ parts during the intro to sleeping giant.

Soloing has been in issue with Jordan since after six degrees.  So just focus on the riffs and rhythms created underneath and it’s a more enjoyable experience.  At least for me.

[TheCountOfNYC]

His first solo in Sleeping Giant right after the ragtime part is great. The rest, not so much. Jordan’s solos are better when he’s not playing a standard lead patch. Whenever he goes with a piano sound, organ sound, and of course his masterful moog solo in Octavarium, he hits it out of the park. However, after Six Degrees, his regular synth solos leave a lot to be desired. When he switched from Kurzweil to Korg is when it really started to go downhill.

[Dream Team]

It's hard to understand. The guy's a musical genius and prodigy, but struggles mightily composing a melodic solo.

[Elite]

It's hard to understand. The guy's a musical genius and prodigy, but struggles mightily composing a melodic solo.

Curious, isn't it?

[TheCountOfNYC]

It's hard to understand. The guy's a musical genius and prodigy, but struggles mightily composing a melodic solo.

I think the problem is that he DOESN’T write his solos. He usually takes a more improvisational approach to soloing, but his go-to lines aren’t all that memorable. His best solos are the ones where whether they’re improvised or not, there is a clear melodic contour, and it sounds like he put more thought into it. Jordan very clearly is a great writer as evidenced by every other keyboard part he plays being absolutely incredible, I just wish he would apply some of that to his soloing more often.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

They're decent solos but I feel they are more about mood than melody. I cant recall a single solo he's ever done. I think part of the problem is that they're trying too much to be like guitar solos, except keyboard is not guitar.

I would like to hear fewer keyboard synth solos going forward-- we have enough. There just does not need to be more than 1 per album. Let MM or JM have some solos instead.

[evilasiojr]

I've actually enjoyed and "sang" Jordan's solos more than John's on the new record. For me they are his best solos in a while, maybe since ADTOE.

[DT1138]

I wouldn't say his solos are terrible on this album, but only small sections stand out to me here and there versus on other albums. 

To me, when he plays anything on piano, organ or "lighter" synth lead sounds are best. He also doesn't need to play as fast as possible either - just like JP's solos, some of the best work he does is the slower and more thoughtful parts.

And while we're on the topic of JR, sorry to anyone who likes it but I cannot stand the sound of the Continuum.  I don't know if it has that sound by default or if he is just controlling a patch with it via Midi, but I never liked it - it's just so harsh and shrill sounding to me that I will actually skip sections of songs where he plays it.  It's a shame because it's not his playing that I don't like, just the sound of the instrument. 

[hunnus2000]

Let me start off by saying that judging any solo or song is good or bad is ridiculously subjective and then I would ask, what would one want in a JR solo in order for you to like it? Do you want a solo like Stairway to Heaven which is iconic but I have read where some have totally panned that solo?
Do you want a more melodic solo? I would argue that the areas where JR and even JP solos are spaces where it's time to unleash. There is plenty of space for melodic interludes and I love the way that JR and JP trade off solos. As an example, The Alien is a perfect example of JR throwing the kitchen sink of his soundscape in that song. I hear the angry pig patch, synth, piano and even the moog (organ) along with other sounds. I mean WOW!

I think JR's solo's are just fine within the context of the song.

[Architeuthis]

Well said hunnus!   

I really like his cello type solo in the title track. It's has a lot of emotion and comes across as believable coming from his iPad / geoshred patch he's using.  Very innovative imo!

I absolutely love his piano playing throughout ATM,  and his cool little ragtime section in Sleeping Giant. Also one of my favorite moments are the solos from JP and JR in Answering the Call. They both just slay it in their respective parts and when they come back together in unison at the end of the solo section, this is classic DT at it's best!   

[Skeever]

Given the album has been out for a month now, I am sure this topic has already been posted / commented on but I could not face going through all the other threads to see if it has.

Overall, a really good album, I feel, has been ruined by Jordan's soloing, particularly on The Alien and the title track. He seems to want to play as fast as possible without paying attention to the notes he is using -  he is almost the keyboard equivalent of Iron Maiden's Janick Gers (who is a terrible player, in my opinion).

I stopped reading here, because Janick is an awesome player

[James Mypetgiress]

With the vast majority of his solos, I always focus on JRs technical ability and innovation with regards to what synths/samplers/etc he's using. I think it's easier for me to look at it from that angle given that I'm a synth nerd, though. I've enjoyed his solos a lot on the new album from that point of view. I especially loved the geoshred cello on the tite track and the part competing with JP on Awaken the Master (I believe, although I haven't listened to the new album as much as I would like yet). I would like more variation from him, but I think this new release doesn't really cater to him exploring a more melodic side, as he has on some other albums, the one that immediately comes to mind being the solo on Beneath the Surface from ADTOE.

Also, just on this note,

And while we're on the topic of JR, sorry to anyone who likes it but I cannot stand the sound of the Continuum.  I don't know if it has that sound by default or if he is just controlling a patch with it via Midi, but I never liked it - it's just so harsh and shrill sounding to me that I will actually skip sections of songs where he plays it.  It's a shame because it's not his playing that I don't like, just the sound of the instrument. 

I'm pretty sure JR doesn't use the continuum anymore/hasn't for a while. I was looking for it on the Distant Memories rig when I was watching it the other day and I couldn't see it.

[ReaPsTA]

I'm pretty sure JR doesn't use the continuum anymore/hasn't for a while. I was looking for it on the Distant Memories rig when I was watching it the other day and I couldn't see it.

I think he has the mini version on there now.

[pcs90]

I find the solos on Awaken the Master and Sleeping Giant to be well thought-out. This is probably because, as someone posted above, the riffs underneath those sections are more melodic in nature so it sounds like the solos have more thought put into them. This also makes it far easier for Jordan to come up with melodic ideas -- the framework is already there.
Jordan's issue is not that he can't come up with melodic solos (check Feeding The Wheel and Rhythm Of Time for proof of that,) I think it's that he just hits record, and just plays whatever comes into his head with little thought given beforehand. Nothing at all wrong with improvising solos, in fact I generally prefer it and most bands I listen to nowadays are like this but it just feels as if Jordan is going through the motions on many of these parts.
My enjoyment of a JR solo nowadays is largely dependent on the chord progression that is underneath it; if it's a good one, the solo will probably be good, recycled or not it will automatically sound better. If it's just a basic riff or something, well...can't expect originality over that every time can we?
All of that being said I certainly still prefer his current solos compared to, say, Derek Sherinian's from SoA etc.
My problem nowadays is that since I listen to so much jazz fusion, funk, etc and hearing absolutely outstanding keyboardists in those genres who are constantly crafting masterful solos on the spot, I get tired of a lot of keys solos in prog metal in general. I know it's unfair to compare those genres but man...hearing guys like Cory Henry, Anomalie, Eli Winderman, Shaun Martin, J3PO, Hirotaka Izumi, Caleb McCampbell, Minoru Mukaiya, etc plus some guys I personally play with, changed the game for me and has inspired me 100 times more in my own keys development than JR, no matter how much I still love and respect what he does...just what resonates with me.

[pcs90]

And while we're on the topic of JR, sorry to anyone who likes it but I cannot stand the sound of the Continuum.  I don't know if it has that sound by default or if he is just controlling a patch with it via Midi, but I never liked it - it's just so harsh and shrill sounding to me that I will actually skip sections of songs where he plays it.  It's a shame because it's not his playing that I don't like, just the sound of the instrument. 

It's not really the sound of the Continuum. He uses it as a MIDI controller connected to, last I checked, a Roland VSynth. I actually think the patch is really cool, but I don't like how he uses it on the Continuum. There are some solos where he plays it on a regular keyboard and it sounds miles better to me. Some examples of that...Rite of Passage (before the weird noises,) Surrounded from Chaos in Motion, Illumination Theory and Trial of Tears from BTFW. It's a pretty aggressive lead but would be fun to play IMO, I'd like to try and program it one of these days.

[illusionist]

Jordan's best moments on the new album,for me,are Sleeping Giant and the title track.
I like his contributions on every song,but these two stand out more to me.
And,generally,my favorite moments of him are when he sets the tone for a song,and the foundation upon which JP lays his magic.
And when he plays his piano,which he is a master at.Sure,he is capable in his keys too,but he has been too repetitive with his solos over the years,
that he gives me the impression of him having a library of sounds which he uses too often without experimenting.
And these sounds don't appeal to me that much to be honest,especially that annoying snarling pig 

My problem nowadays is that since I listen to so much jazz fusion, funk, etc and hearing absolutely outstanding keyboardists in those genres who are constantly crafting masterful solos on the spot, I get tired of a lot of keys solos in prog metal in general. I know it's unfair to compare those genres but man...hearing guys like Cory Henry, Anomalie, Eli Winderman, Shaun Martin, J3PO, Hirotaka Izumi, Caleb McCampbell, Minoru Mukaiya, etc plus some guys I personally play with, changed the game for me and has inspired me 100 times more in my own keys development than JR, no matter how much I still love and respect what he does...just what resonates with me.

Thanks for these keybordists suggestions,i will check them out!
And,yeah,Feeding the Wheel is a great album,inspired,melodic and with great guests.His best solo album for me.