The TAC Roulette V.5...DTF Faves..WTF Am I Missing?? MastoDONE!

[lonestar]

I was listening to the bands I'm unfamiliar with on my commute home. Opeth is interesting, C&C is quite good, Mastodon is Mastodon, but Neal... I just don't get it. Granted I was just getting Spotify offerings, but nothing appealed to me. The next round is going to be a grind, thank God I can't drop any further in the rankings.

[Elite]

Yes, I'll be sending Spock's Beard next round..

[HOF]

I was listening to the bands I'm unfamiliar with on my commute home. Opeth is interesting, C&C is quite good, Mastodon is Mastodon, but Neal... I just don't get it. Granted I was just getting Spotify offerings, but nothing appealed to me. The next round is going to be a grind, thank God I can't drop any further in the rankings.

Neal is one of my favorite musicians, but his solo stuff since he left SB (including NMB) is not great.

[ariich]

I was listening to the bands I'm unfamiliar with on my commute home. Opeth is interesting, C&C is quite good, Mastodon is Mastodon, but Neal... I just don't get it. Granted I was just getting Spotify offerings, but nothing appealed to me. The next round is going to be a grind, thank God I can't drop any further in the rankings.

Neal is one of my favorite musicians, but his solo stuff since he left SB (including NMB) is not great.

I don't quite agree, I think it's been pretty comparable in terms of being quite a mixed bag - some great albums and some not so great. That said, I think there a couple of Spock's albums that are easily superior to any of his solo albums. Though I'm not sure I'd want to send Tim any songs from them. Hmm, that's going to be the hardest round so far I think.

[Buddyhunter1]

I was listening to the bands I'm unfamiliar with on my commute home. Opeth is interesting, C&C is quite good, Mastodon is Mastodon, but Neal... I just don't get it. Granted I was just getting Spotify offerings, but nothing appealed to me. The next round is going to be a grind, thank God I can't drop any further in the rankings.

Neal is one of my favorite musicians, but his solo stuff since he left SB (including NMB) is not great.

I'll be sending two NMB songs. I tried listening to V and Snow and I just could... not. The NMB albums I checked out were far more palatable to me. I didn't bother with any true-blue solo records.

[HOF]

I was listening to the bands I'm unfamiliar with on my commute home. Opeth is interesting, C&C is quite good, Mastodon is Mastodon, but Neal... I just don't get it. Granted I was just getting Spotify offerings, but nothing appealed to me. The next round is going to be a grind, thank God I can't drop any further in the rankings.

Neal is one of my favorite musicians, but his solo stuff since he left SB (including NMB) is not great.

I'll be sending two NMB songs. I tried listening to V and Snow and I just could... not. The NMB albums I checked out were far more palatable to me. I didn't bother with any true-blue solo records.

TAC and I are opposites, so you're probably all better off sending solo Neal stuff.

[425]

I've heard one C&C in my life and only heard it once.  Might take Ruslans approach as I don't want to listen to them at all lol.

Yeah I'm doing this for C&C too even though I own the Good Apollo I'm Morning Star IV: The Writing Writer album. Also doing this with Neal Morse and Mastodon as I only own Crack the Skye.

Neal has so many albums I'll probably have to use a d20!

I appreciate this valiant, though very incorrect, effort to write out the full title for GAIBS4V1:FFTtEoM.

For Neal, I'd recommend making sure you stick with his prog albums. Those would be the first six Spock's Beard albums and these of his solo albums:
Testimony
One
?
Sola Scriptura
Lifeline
Testimony 2
Momentum
Sola Gratia

The four Neal Morse Band albums would also qualify, but many of the songs do not satisfy the 75% Neal lead vocals rule and you'd have to check your submissions. (This applies to anyone sending NMB. Also, I volunteer to be a "checker" if anyone doesn't want to listen to the songs or doesn't know what Neal sounds like—note that it's possible to mix him up with one of the other lead singers.)

I was listening to the bands I'm unfamiliar with on my commute home. Opeth is interesting, C&C is quite good, Mastodon is Mastodon, but Neal... I just don't get it. Granted I was just getting Spotify offerings, but nothing appealed to me. The next round is going to be a grind, thank God I can't drop any further in the rankings.

I find it interesting (though not wholly unsurprising) that a lot of DT fans see absolutely nothing in Neal Morse. His music, especially his solo and NMB albums (I'm exactly the opposite of HOF in preferences), incorporates a lot of what I like most about Dream Theater on an even grander scale. The grandiosity, the setting up and reprisal of themes, the use of technicality as a way to build and express tension... these are hallmarks of Neal's post-SB prog works that are also what I love about songs like Home, Octavarium, In the Presence of Enemies, Breaking All Illusions and In the Name of God.

The reason I don't find it too surprising is because I recognize that that's only one dimension of DT's sound and that other people respond to different aspects of it, and because I recognize that NM has other elements that are pretty different from DT that people may not respond to (probably most importantly, the fact that his voice is nothing like JLB's). But I just find it interesting because they're two of my favorites for many of the same reasons.

[ariich]

The four Neal Morse Band albums would also qualify, but many of the songs do not satisfy the 75% Neal lead vocals rule and you'd have to check your submissions. (This applies to anyone sending NMB. Also, I volunteer to be a "checker" if anyone doesn't want to listen to the songs or doesn't know what Neal sounds like—note that it's possible to mix him up with one of the other lead singers.)

Oh, I didn't spot that rule, it wasn't in the OP.

Seems kind of strict. I'm sure some of the Devy songs were more than 25% Anneke.

Also seems pretty difficult to police, a lot of the big choruses have all of them singing in harmony.

[TAC]

The round is about Neal Morse. So Neal Morse should be the singer of any song sent. The Anneke songs slipped in because I didn’t realize they were even an option, so I thought I’d tighten up the NM round regarding vocals before I had to listen to MP sing.

[ProfessorPeart]

The four Neal Morse Band albums would also qualify, but many of the songs do not satisfy the 75% Neal lead vocals rule and you'd have to check your submissions. (This applies to anyone sending NMB. Also, I volunteer to be a "checker" if anyone doesn't want to listen to the songs or doesn't know what Neal sounds like—note that it's possible to mix him up with one of the other lead singers.)

Oh, I didn't spot that rule, it wasn't in the OP.

Seems kind of strict. I'm sure some of the Devy songs were more than 25% Anneke.

Also seems pretty difficult to police, a lot of the big choruses have all of them singing in harmony.

Yeah, people sort of ignored my question to TAC about vocals in the Devin round. I explicitly asked about that since some of the DTP stuff had other vocalists doing more of the vocals and TAC responded that it needed to be primarily Devin.

[425]

The round is about Neal Morse. So Neal Morse should be the singer of any song sent. The Anneke songs slipped in because I didn’t realize they were even an option, so I thought I’d tighten up the NM round regarding vocals before I had to listen to MP sing.

I understand your motivation here, but just to be very clear: NMB is basically a band with three lead singers (none of whom, to be clear, is named Mike Portnoy) so you are cutting off a substantial amount of their discography.

[ariich]

The round is about Neal Morse. So Neal Morse should be the singer of any song sent. The Anneke songs slipped in because I didn’t realize they were even an option, so I thought I’d tighten up the NM round regarding vocals before I had to listen to MP sing.

Yeah but in his current band the other guys sing too. It's still his band and his music and he does most of the singing.

Dunno, probably just means you'll be closing off stuff that you're probably more likely to enjoy.

Yeah, people sort of ignored my question to TAC about vocals in the Devin round. I explicitly asked about that since some of the DTP stuff had other vocalists doing more of the vocals and TAC responded that it needed to be primarily Devin.

Bend It Like Bender is mostly Anneke.

[Buddyhunter1]

Yeah Neal's voice is so generic anyways I have no idea how much of his vocals are on my songs.

Bullshit rule (in my opinion)

[425]

I'm gonna be a bit obnoxious about this rule if it stays in place because if I have to follow it, I want everyone else to have to follow it, too.

Edit:

Yeah Neal's voice is so generic anyways I have no idea how much of his vocals are on my songs.

Bullshit rule (in my opinion)

I don't agree with the generic comment, but it is going to be difficult for non-NMB fans because I think it can be challenging to tell Neal and Eric Gillette apart.

[HOF]

I find it interesting (though not wholly unsurprising) that a lot of DT fans see absolutely nothing in Neal Morse. His music, especially his solo and NMB albums (I'm exactly the opposite of HOF in preferences), incorporates a lot of what I like most about Dream Theater on an even grander scale. The grandiosity, the setting up and reprisal of themes, the use of technicality as a way to build and express tension... these are hallmarks of Neal's post-SB prog works that are also what I love about songs like Home, Octavarium, In the Presence of Enemies, Breaking All Illusions and In the Name of God.

The reason I don't find it too surprising is because I recognize that that's only one dimension of DT's sound and that other people respond to different aspects of it, and because I recognize that NM has other elements that are pretty different from DT that people may not respond to (probably most importantly, the fact that his voice is nothing like JLB's). But I just find it interesting because they're two of my favorites for many of the same reasons.

So part of it is I feel like Neal, when paired with MP*, falls into some of the same traps as DT did after Jordan joined the band. Everything has to be more extrem, more epic, longer, bigger, grander, etc. Neal's writing in SB just has more charm and a little more heart and soul to me.

*I love the early TA albums, but I think some of it started there. I will say Flying Colors is more restrained in general, and I do like those albums better than solo Neal/NMB.

[HOF]

Yeah Neal's voice is so generic anyways I have no idea how much of his vocals are on my songs.

Bullshit rule (in my opinion)

Can you get more generic that the screaming/growls in BTBAM and Opeth? Neal has a pretty unique voice in the prog world IMO.

[425]

So part of it is I feel like Neal, when paired with MP*, falls into some of the same traps as DT did after Jordan joined the band. Everything has to be more extrem, more epic, longer, bigger, grander, etc. Neal's writing in SB just has more charm and a little more heart and soul to me.

*I love the early TA albums, but I think some of it started there. I will say Flying Colors is more restrained in general, and I do like those albums better than solo Neal/NMB.

I mean, that makes perfect sense, then. If you don't like that aspect of the JR DT albums (which I do like), then you wouldn't like it when NM does it, either.

Meanwhile Flying Colors does basically nothing for me.

[ariich]

Yeah Neal's voice is so generic anyways I have no idea how much of his vocals are on my songs.

Tru dat.

Just means lots more work for 425 to audit all our submissions.

I'm gonna be a bit obnoxious about this rule if it stays in place because if I have to follow it, I want everyone else to have to follow it, too.

Oh yeah totally, I'm 100% about fairness and if the rule stays then I'd feel much happier if someone who knows their stuff was able to enforce it on Tim's behalf!

What we ideally need is a list of which songs are eligible. But I guess that wouldn't be any less work for you then checking the ones that actually get sent.

[Evermind]

The four Neal Morse Band albums would also qualify, but many of the songs do not satisfy the 75% Neal lead vocals rule and you'd have to check your submissions. (This applies to anyone sending NMB. Also, I volunteer to be a "checker" if anyone doesn't want to listen to the songs or doesn't know what Neal sounds like—note that it's possible to mix him up with one of the other lead singers.)

Are you sure you won't mix him up with some female singer? (I don't think there are any on NMB but I couldn't pass the opportunity)

Also I'm sure I didn't pull The Writing Writer out of my ass. That must be one of the songs then.

[ariich]

Yeah Neal's voice is so generic anyways I have no idea how much of his vocals are on my songs.

Bullshit rule (in my opinion)

Can you get more generic that the screaming/growls in BTBAM and Opeth?

Neither is generic but I totally understand how they'd sound that way if you don't like that style.

However, those bands don't have any restrictions for their rounds, so the comparison is moot.

[TAC]

The round is about Neal Morse. So Neal Morse should be the singer of any song sent. The Anneke songs slipped in because I didn’t realize they were even an option, so I thought I’d tighten up the NM round regarding vocals before I had to listen to MP sing.

Yeah but in his current band the other guys sing too. It's still his band and his music and he does most of the singing.

Dunno, probably just means you'll be closing off stuff that you're probably more likely to enjoy.

Sure. But that’s like buying a Blue Oyster Cult album because I like Dont Fear The Reaper and then going WTF?

I think the 75% rule is fine. I don’t mind if he trades off some vocal lines.


Does Anneke song in any songs? If so, forget the 75% rule. 

[425]

The four Neal Morse Band albums would also qualify, but many of the songs do not satisfy the 75% Neal lead vocals rule and you'd have to check your submissions. (This applies to anyone sending NMB. Also, I volunteer to be a "checker" if anyone doesn't want to listen to the songs or doesn't know what Neal sounds like—note that it's possible to mix him up with one of the other lead singers.)

Are you sure you won't mix him up with some female singer? (I don't think there are any on NMB but I couldn't pass the opportunity)

Also I'm sure I didn't pull The Writing Writer out of my ass. That must be one of the songs then.

Speaking of that, who is Anneke? I thought Devin was singing everything. 

One of the songs is "Apollo I: The Writing Writer." The album is Good Apollo, I'm Burning Star IV, Volume One: From Fear Through the Eyes of Madness.

[HOF]

Yeah Neal's voice is so generic anyways I have no idea how much of his vocals are on my songs.

Bullshit rule (in my opinion)

Can you get more generic that the screaming/growls in BTBAM and Opeth?

Neither is generic but I totally understand how they'd sound that way if you don't like that style.

However, those bands don't have any restrictions for their rounds, so the comparison is moot.

Ah, I kind of misinterpreted what Buddy was going on about. Still, I think Neal sounds pretty different from even the other people in NMB.

[Buddyhunter1]

The round is about Neal Morse. So Neal Morse should be the singer of any song sent. The Anneke songs slipped in because I didn’t realize they were even an option, so I thought I’d tighten up the NM round regarding vocals before I had to listen to MP sing.

Yeah but in his current band the other guys sing too. It's still his band and his music and he does most of the singing.

Dunno, probably just means you'll be closing off stuff that you're probably more likely to enjoy.

Sure. But that’s like buying a Blue Oyster Cult album because I like Dont Fear The Reaper and then going WTF?

I think the 75% rule is fine. I don’t mind if he trades off some vocal lines.


Does Anneke song in any songs? If so, forget the 75% rule. 

Alright 425, you're up:

The Call
Bird On A Wire

If either of those get disqualified I'm dice rolling Neal's solo albums and not even listening to the songs that get chosen.

[Evermind]

One of the songs is "Apollo I: The Writing Writer." The album is Good Apollo, I'm Burning Star IV, Volume One: From Fear Through the Eyes of Madness.

Don't worry, I won't remember this tomorrow.

[425]

Alright 425, you're up:

The Call
Bird On A Wire

If either of those get disqualified I'm dice rolling Neal's solo albums and not even listening to the songs that get chosen.

The Call is good. Almost every word is sung by Neal, some in harmony with others.

Bird on a Wire is not. Neal sings around 50% of the vocals: all the verses. Eric Gillette sings the choruses and Bill Hubauer sings the bridge.

[Buddyhunter1]

Alright 425, you're up:

The Call
Bird On A Wire

If either of those get disqualified I'm dice rolling Neal's solo albums and not even listening to the songs that get chosen.

The Call is good. Almost every word is sung by Neal, some in harmony with others.

Bird on a Wire is not. Neal sings around 50% of the vocals: all the verses. Eric Gillette sings the choruses and Bill Hubauer sings the bridge.

The Call and one RNG song it is!

[ariich]

The round is about Neal Morse. So Neal Morse should be the singer of any song sent. The Anneke songs slipped in because I didn’t realize they were even an option, so I thought I’d tighten up the NM round regarding vocals before I had to listen to MP sing.

Yeah but in his current band the other guys sing too. It's still his band and his music and he does most of the singing.

Dunno, probably just means you'll be closing off stuff that you're probably more likely to enjoy.

Sure. But that’s like buying a Blue Oyster Cult album because I like Dont Fear The Reaper and then going WTF?

But if you liked the Neal Morse Band songs where two other guys sing lead lines, and then bought a Neal Morse Band album, it would be along the lines you expected because those other singers would be all over those albums.

I think the 75% rule is fine. I don’t mind if he trades off some vocal lines.

I'd understand 50% in terms of ensuring Neal is the main singer, like you indicated for Devy (although you didn't enforce it). I just don't really get why 75%.

That said, I haven't actually chosen my songs yet and definitely have some NM solo and Spock's options.

[Crow]

let's solve the neal morse problem by tossing the neal morse round and going with a different artist insteat

[King Postwhore]

Tim won't know the difference in singers. Just don't rat each other out.

[HOF]

I mean, the only eligible stuff where the multiple singer thing is an issue is the NMB stuff. He has like 10 solo albums plus 6 from Spock's Beard where he sings all but two songs (both from Snow. And I guess there are some parts of One with Kerry Livgren singing). It can't be that hard to find something that only Neal sings to send!

[lonestar]

I should expand on my critique in saying that it's his voice that just doesn't get me, his music is solid, albeit predictable prog. I dunno.....it just isn't clicking. I remember reviewing Momentum favorably years ago, and revisited it to very little interest on my part.

[Buddyhunter1]

It can't be that hard to find something that only Neal sings to send!

That's not the problem; it's finding something GOOD where only Neal sings.

Are there any non-instrumental Neal Morse (solo albums) songs where he doesn't sing?

[lonestar]

It can't be that hard to find something that only Neal sings to send!

That's not the problem; it's finding something GOOD where only Neal sings.

Exactly the problem I was having yesterday 

[Crow]

he does have a pretty awful voice, and the music he makes is pretty unremarkable and often very cheesy or corny in a way i can't enjoy, yeah. would be a bad idea to send to TAC, i think!