Poll

Is AVFTTOTW one of the greatest albums of all time?

Yes
13 (13%)
No
79 (79%)
Maybe
8 (8%)

Total Members Voted: 100

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Offline LKap13

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View
« on: October 26, 2021, 05:34:03 PM »
Pardon the hyperbole but I'm serious. I voted yes.
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Offline TheBarstoolWarrior

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Re: View
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2021, 05:34:48 PM »
Greatest DT album? like top 3 or 5?
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Offline Dave_Manchester

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Re: View
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2021, 05:35:38 PM »
One of the greatest DT albums of all time? Possibly. By anyone? Good lord no, and I love the album.
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Offline LKap13

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Re: View
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2021, 05:35:48 PM »
Nah greatest of all time
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Offline LKap13

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Re: View
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2021, 05:36:48 PM »
I'm listening to Puppets right now and I'm like, View is just as good
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Offline TheBarstoolWarrior

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« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2021, 05:39:29 PM »
Oh, no. No no no no not among the greatest of all time, under nearly any definition. And i really like A View. That's wonderful if you are enjoying it that much to potentially consider it greatest album.

Top 3 or 5 DT album? Quite possibly.
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Offline ThatOneGuy2112

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Re: View
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2021, 05:40:00 PM »
It's been out for 5 days.
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Offline LKap13

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Re: View
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2021, 05:40:33 PM »
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: View
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2021, 05:42:28 PM »
Kevin Moore

-Marc.
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Offline LKap13

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Re: View
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2021, 05:43:59 PM »
There have to be people on this forum who will vote yes. Mods if this poll is ridiculous feel free to shut it down but I'm sticking to my answer!
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Offline TheBarstoolWarrior

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Re: View
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2021, 05:45:48 PM »
what criteria are necessary to be defined as greatest?
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Offline LKap13

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Re: View
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2021, 05:46:39 PM »
Best
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Offline TheBarstoolWarrior

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« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2021, 05:49:41 PM »
no definitely not. It cant be better than I&W which is the greatest album of all time  :biggrin:
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Offline LKap13

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Re: View
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2021, 05:52:07 PM »
I think the scope is this album is massive. The range of heavy, light, melody, virtuosity, etc is larger than images and prob any other album maybe save SDOIT
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Offline Dave_Manchester

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« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2021, 05:57:31 PM »
Quote from: LKap13 on October 26, 2021, 05:52:07 PM
I think the scope is this album is massive. The range of heavy, light, melody, virtuosity, etc is larger than images and prob any other album maybe save SDOIT
Maybe so but we're living in a world that contains stuff like Abbey Road, Zeppelin 4, Close to the Edge, Thriller, Dark Side of the Moon, Pet Sounds etc.

I love your enthusiasm though and I hope your poll stays up just to see if anyone else feels the same way as you. "Greatest" is a dodgy word in this context, it brings in stuff like innovation and cultural influence, but if you mean something like "your favourite album of all time" then it's all just a matter of taste and I'm interested to see if you're alone in your reaction.
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Offline darkshade

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« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2021, 07:05:26 PM »
No.

It's good by modern DT standards, and OK in context of DT's discography, but IaW and SFAM will go down as two of music's best albums, along with ACOS and Octavarium, which will go down as two of the best pieces of music ever created by any musician. I'd like to think Awake and SDoIT will have that legacy, but I'm not as confident about that. Anything since 8vm? Highly unlikely.
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Offline NoseofNicko

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« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2021, 07:10:47 PM »
I really REALLY love the album, but no way.
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Online TAC

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Re: View
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2021, 07:11:26 PM »
Yeah, this OP is way overreaching.
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would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline lovethedrake

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Re: View
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2021, 07:12:02 PM »
I will say this… it’s the greatest Dream Theater album that came out in 2021 of all time.  There are no other Dream Theater albums from the year 2021 that are as good as this one.

I’m not sold on this being a top 10 Dream Theater album yet so…. greatest album of all time?!    Haha come on….

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Offline bosk1

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Re: View
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2021, 07:31:42 PM »
I voted "maybe."  WAY too early to tell.  But I like it quite a bit.  My way too early prediction is that it will fall somewhere around #5 to #7 for me.  For reference, my top 6 are:
1.  Six Degrees
2.  SFAM
3.  ADTOE
4.  DT12
5.  I&W
6.  Awake

I don't see it cracking the top 4, but it could.  And I don't see it falling farther than #7, but it could. 
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Offline LKap13

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Re: View
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2021, 07:33:46 PM »
Quote from: bosk1 on October 26, 2021, 07:31:42 PM
I voted "maybe."  WAY too early to tell.  But I like it quite a bit.  My way too early prediction is that it will fall somewhere around #5 to #7 for me.  For reference, my top 6 are:
1.  Six Degrees
2.  SFAM
3.  ADTOE
4.  DT12
5.  I&W
6.  Awake

I don't see it cracking the top 4, but it could.  And I don't see it falling farther than #7, but it could.

DT12 huh? I guess I gotta give that another spin
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Offline lovethedrake

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Re: View
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2021, 07:35:44 PM »
Quote from: bosk1 on October 26, 2021, 07:31:42 PM
I voted "maybe."  WAY too early to tell.  But I like it quite a bit.  My way too early prediction is that it will fall somewhere around #5 to #7 for me.  For reference, my top 6 are:
1.  Six Degrees
2.  SFAM
3.  ADTOE
4.  DT12
5.  I&W
6.  Awake

I don't see it cracking the top 4, but it could.  And I don't see it falling farther than #7, but it could.

Wait you voted maybe for it being one of the greatest albums of ALL Time?   Did you misread the poll?  If it’s not even in your top 3 by the same band I’m guessing you won’t have it as one of the greatest of all time.  Unless “one of the” means top 10 or 50 or 100.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: View
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2021, 07:38:51 PM »
I said it's too early to tell, and then said where I think it might eventually fall.  But since it is too early to tell, "maybe" is the only correct choice (or at least, the most correct).
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Offline TheBarstoolWarrior

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Re: View
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2021, 07:40:30 PM »
Quote from: LKap13 on October 26, 2021, 07:33:46 PM
Quote from: bosk1 on October 26, 2021, 07:31:42 PM
I voted "maybe."  WAY too early to tell.  But I like it quite a bit.  My way too early prediction is that it will fall somewhere around #5 to #7 for me.  For reference, my top 6 are:
1.  Six Degrees
2.  SFAM
3.  ADTOE
4.  DT12
5.  I&W
6.  Awake

I don't see it cracking the top 4, but it could.  And I don't see it falling farther than #7, but it could.

DT12 huh? I guess I gotta give that another spin

You should  ;D

It's a great album if you can get past the production. I much preferred the more concise song writing approach followed by a big dramatic epic at the end with all the riffing one could ask for.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: View
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2021, 10:53:02 PM »
Honestly, I don't think it was until you joined that I heard anyone ever say anything about DT12's production, other than the drums being buried in the mix--I'll give you that.  But other than that, I don't hear anything "wrong" with the production on that album, and never have.
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Offline wolfking

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Re: View
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2021, 11:00:31 PM »
Is this thread a joke?
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Offline The Realm

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Re: View
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2021, 11:02:41 PM »
Has to be a joke.
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Offline AVFTTOTW

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Re: View
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2021, 11:27:13 PM »
It's in the top portion of their discography but there are at least five albums above it.
For prog in general it's not a particularly amazing album but for DT it's easily their best in ten years.
It's one of the top albums of this year though.
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Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: View
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2021, 11:54:45 PM »
Quote from: bosk1 on October 26, 2021, 10:53:02 PM
Honestly, I don't think it was until you joined that I heard anyone ever say anything about DT12's production

m? When DT12 came out you couldn't open a thread without seeing someone complain about the drum mix.
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Offline RoeDent

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Re: View
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2021, 06:35:37 AM »
It has the least variety on any DT album. It's missing a true ballad.
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Offline erciccio

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Re: View
« Reply #30 on: October 27, 2021, 06:46:08 AM »
Well, for me it is one of the worst in the DT catalogue, so no way it can be considered one of the greatest of all time..

But, leaving aside each one's personal taste, I think to answer your question one should ask wether this album is going to "change the course of music history" (= greatest).

And I think the answer to this question is a clear NO: no matter how much you like the songs or the production, or how amazing is the delivery by each band member, there are no musical breakthroughs in here, and it's certainly not going to create a new stream of progressive metal music, it is not going to push legions of teenagers to embrace an instrument, or anything like that.

The only DT album that can compete in this category is Images and Words: you might not love it as much as this one, but it certainly created (or at least reinvented and made popular) a musical genre (the progressive metal), even though a niche one.

PS - of course all of the above is just my opinion, it's not an universal truth, but I think it's going to be EXTREMELY unlike that this album is going to be more influential of I&W.
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Ora che ho perso la vista,ci vedo di più

Offline LKap13

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Re: View
« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2021, 07:29:39 AM »
Quote from: erciccio on October 27, 2021, 06:46:08 AM
Well, for me it is one of the worst in the DT catalogue, so no way it can be considered one of the greatest of all time..

But, leaving aside each one's personal taste, I think to answer your question one should ask wether this album is going to "change the course of music history" (= greatest).

And I think the answer to this question is a clear NO: no matter how much you like the songs or the production, or how amazing is the delivery by each band member, there are no musical breakthroughs in here, and it's certainly not going to create a new stream of progressive metal music, it is not going to push legions of teenagers to embrace an instrument, or anything like that.

The only DT album that can compete in this category is Images and Words: you might not love it as much as this one, but it certainly created (or at least reinvented and made popular) a musical genre (the progressive metal), even though a niche one.

PS - of course all of the above is just my opinion, it's not an universal truth, but I think it's going to be EXTREMELY unlike that this album is going to be more influential of I&W.

I think this is all fair. Counter argument is something like, Mozart's 40th symphony. Probably considered one of the "greatest", but as far as I can tell it was not more "influential". I'm not a classical music scholar so I could be wrong on that but I think it's true
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Offline LKap13

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Re: View
« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2021, 07:42:01 AM »
@kotow @glasser , y'all vote? Haha
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Offline erciccio

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Re: View
« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2021, 07:45:23 AM »
Quote from: LKap13 on October 27, 2021, 07:29:39 AM
Quote from: erciccio on October 27, 2021, 06:46:08 AM
Well, for me it is one of the worst in the DT catalogue, so no way it can be considered one of the greatest of all time..

But, leaving aside each one's personal taste, I think to answer your question one should ask wether this album is going to "change the course of music history" (= greatest).

And I think the answer to this question is a clear NO: no matter how much you like the songs or the production, or how amazing is the delivery by each band member, there are no musical breakthroughs in here, and it's certainly not going to create a new stream of progressive metal music, it is not going to push legions of teenagers to embrace an instrument, or anything like that.

The only DT album that can compete in this category is Images and Words: you might not love it as much as this one, but it certainly created (or at least reinvented and made popular) a musical genre (the progressive metal), even though a niche one.

PS - of course all of the above is just my opinion, it's not an universal truth, but I think it's going to be EXTREMELY unlike that this album is going to be more influential of I&W.

I think this is all fair. Counter argument is something like, Mozart's 40th symphony. Probably considered one of the "greatest", but as far as I can tell it was not more "influential". I'm not a classical music scholar so I could be wrong on that but I think it's true

This is a fair point...this debate could be never ending, as there's clearly not a mathematical rule to determine the "greatness"! :)

By the way, also the 40th received "mixed reviews" ! :)
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinfonia_n._40_(Mozart)
According to Glenn Gould, it's 8 bars of genius in the middle of 30 minutes of banality!
(I could not find this quote in the English wiki).

Same thing as concerns Beethoven, the 9th, for example: it's certainly one of the most influential and popular, if not the most, but I would not consider it one of his masterpieces...

AVFTTOTW according to me does not fall in any possible definition of "greatest", anyway!
I&W IS the one! :biggrin:



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Ora che ho perso la vista,ci vedo di più

Offline LKap13

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Re: View
« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2021, 07:50:36 AM »
Well Mozart's 40th and Beethoven's 9th are... yea

And you don't have to sell me on Images! I relistened a few weeks ago and thought it was brilliant. Couldn't believe they did it at their age. HOWEVER, believe it or not, when I listen to Images and then View right after, View is more complex, mature, incredible. The recent albums were not MELODIC enough to touch images, but View is melodic AND crazy. Anyway, both are awesome, right?
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