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Awaken the Master Discussion Thread

Started by TheBarstoolWarrior, October 25, 2021, 06:32:56 AM

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Herrick

Quote from: Ben_Jamin on November 16, 2021, 07:25:26 AM
I really appreciate JP's approach to utilizing the 8-String. By recording a song based on what he comes up with when he first plays it and jams on it, like he did with the 7-String and Puppies on Acid turning into The Mirror.

I find that a neat approach to creating. And it's awesome knowing that, this is just the first of many potential 8-String songs in the future.

And I don't remember if it's an interview or the documentary. When they talked about Awaken The Master, it was neat hearing how the overall composing aspect of a song changed as they had to think of the sonic space. Whether JM was going to lower his lowest string to be flabby, but instead chose to use a capo at the 2nd fret.

The vocals and the keyboards add so much to the melodies and to the higher end of the key being played.

Why was he thinking of downtuning his lowest string but decided to use a capo instead?

PetFish

Quote from: TheBarstoolWarrior on November 16, 2021, 05:23:09 PMThere are a lot of younger guitarists who are using 8 strings in more creative ways (Tosin) but yeah, I am not expecting to hear that sorta thing from a veteran 55 year old who just picked up the 8 string a week before the song was written.

I don't think you're giving JP any credit at all with regards to learning new things, especially guitar-related things, at "55" and I guess that's too old?  Jordan Rudess is posting his learning-to-shred videos and he's damn-near 100.

I definitely wouldn't expect him to do Tosin-style things in a short amount of time, but something other than standard chugging on a lower string isn't too much to expect at all.

And I'm sure he was able to use it for more than one week throughout the development stages.  I doubt Ernie Ball just showed up one day with the 8-string a week before entering the studio and said "surprise".

***

The worst thing I find with 8-strings is that there's less and less definition between the notes the lower you play so even if someone is playing a bunch of different notes they all get muddled together to sound like BRRRRRRGHFFFTHTTHHTHHH.

I think 7-strings is the sweet spot.  There's an interesting video of Rob Chapman & The Captain trying 7/8/9 strings and they come to the same conclusion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AODbK4Mq73o

Setlist Scotty

Quote from: Ben_Jamin on November 16, 2021, 07:25:26 AM
I really appreciate JP's approach to utilizing the 8-String. By recording a song based on what he comes up with when he first plays it and jams on it, like he did with the 7-String and Puppies on Acid turning into The Mirror.
Except Puppies On Acid was done on a 6-string originally....   ;)

Herrick

Quote from: Lax on November 15, 2021, 11:22:13 PM
Errr I agree the 8 wasn't necessary for this little use.


If Petrucci wanted the Super Lows while retaining the higer notes he's used to, then I'd say the 8-string was a necessity. You could be right though. I don't know nearly enough about musical stuff to tell if this song could've been played on a downtuned 7-string.

Quote from: KevShmev on November 16, 2021, 05:29:37 AM
I don't even notice the 8-string guitar in this song, and cannot tell if he uses it the whole song or just in certain spots.  It is a non-factor for me as to why I think this song is really good, to be honest.

Quote from: Kotowboy on November 16, 2021, 12:45:29 PM
I'm GLAD it doesn't sound like most 8 string bands who just wanna be Meshuggah

It still sounds like Petrucci.

Agreed.

Kotowboy

Quote from: PetFish on November 17, 2021, 06:50:57 PM
There's an interesting video of Rob Chapman & The Captain trying 7/8/9 strings and they come to the same conclusion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AODbK4Mq73o

Argh now I wanna watch that vid but Chapman is a total W*nker.

PetFish

Quote from: Kotowboy on November 18, 2021, 01:48:40 AMArgh now I wanna watch that vid but Chapman is a total W*nker.

Any idea why?

When I was searching for this video I saw some sketchy stuff like "rob apology" and such but I dunno what happened.  Any of the stuff I've seen with him he seems cool... except for the dreads.

Kotowboy

He always rubbed me the wrong way. Allegedly all his bands gear was "stolen" and he started a gofundme for it. Then he's buying himself a £5000 PRS.


Herrick

Chapman seems all right to me but I don't delve much into YouTube drama. Someone made a YouTube video about a bunch of shady stuff Chapman supposedly did and Chapman made a response to that video. I've watched neither video.

The second post in this Reddit thread lists the accusations against Chapman: https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/ehl9nx/whats_going_on_with_rob_chapman/

TheBarstoolWarrior

Quote from: PetFish on November 18, 2021, 08:45:16 AM
Quote from: Kotowboy on November 18, 2021, 01:48:40 AMArgh now I wanna watch that vid but Chapman is a total W*nker.

Any idea why?

When I was searching for this video I saw some sketchy stuff like "rob apology" and such but I dunno what happened.  Any of the stuff I've seen with him he seems cool... except for the dreads.

I had the same question and saw this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGxXgSVZlxY

TheBarstoolWarrior

Quote from: PetFish on November 17, 2021, 06:50:57 PM
Quote from: TheBarstoolWarrior on November 16, 2021, 05:23:09 PMThere are a lot of younger guitarists who are using 8 strings in more creative ways (Tosin) but yeah, I am not expecting to hear that sorta thing from a veteran 55 year old who just picked up the 8 string a week before the song was written.

I don't think you're giving JP any credit at all with regards to learning new things, especially guitar-related things, at "55" and I guess that's too old?  Jordan Rudess is posting his learning-to-shred videos and he's damn-near 100.

I definitely wouldn't expect him to do Tosin-style things in a short amount of time, but something other than standard chugging on a lower string isn't too much to expect at all.

And I'm sure he was able to use it for more than one week throughout the development stages.  I doubt Ernie Ball just showed up one day with the 8-string a week before entering the studio and said "surprise".

***

The worst thing I find with 8-strings is that there's less and less definition between the notes the lower you play so even if someone is playing a bunch of different notes they all get muddled together to sound like BRRRRRRGHFFFTHTTHHTHHH.

I think 7-strings is the sweet spot.  There's an interesting video of Rob Chapman & The Captain trying 7/8/9 strings and they come to the same conclusion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AODbK4Mq73o

My point was really just that the 8 string is a relatively new thing and none of the guys he grew up idolizing played one and now he's on the older end of the spectrum as a player. You generally don't see a guitarist at this age - no matter how good or legendary - with his amount of success and accolades start injecting a totally new style into his playing. And he didn't do this on ATM -- for better or worse.

erwinrafael

JP did use the low notes to good effect in the solo. He did not just use it gor riffing

the_silent_man

Love this song, maybe my 3rd fav after the t/t and Sleeping Giant. One of my favourite parts is near the start, you have Petrucci's heavy, distorted 8 string riff with Rudess playing clean piono over. Love that contrast.

Also the section "you made it to the top... just to find out, you're only halfway there. All the time, missing the point of the journey." Great, poignant lyrics there (a link to the title track?) and the bass underneath is awesome.

lucasembarbosa

Is it just for me or the part that begins around 4:35 seems to have a connection with the title track, both musically and lyrically?

NoFred

I get that too, it heavily alludes to the title track. Works as sort of a prelude in a way

Architeuthis

Quote from: the_silent_man on November 20, 2021, 11:58:38 PM


Also the section "you made it to the top... just to find out, you're only halfway there. All the time, missing the point of the journey." Great, poignant lyrics there (a link to the title track?) and the bass underneath is awesome.
Heck yeah!!   💯  :tup

nobloodyname

Quote from: Kotowboy on November 18, 2021, 09:16:34 AM
He always rubbed me the wrong way. Allegedly all his bands gear was "stolen" and he started a gofundme for it. Then he's buying himself a £5000 PRS.

That's a bit unfair, as is/was a lot of the criticism of Rob Chapman. I think much of it stems from envy.

Talking of Kotowboy, he's not been around again for a while. Another ban?

ZirconBlue


nobloodyname

Quote from: ZirconBlue on January 27, 2022, 01:23:13 PM
Quote from: nobloodyname on January 27, 2022, 07:00:33 AM

Talking of Kotowboy, he's not been around again for a while. Another ban?


Yep.

Oooh, blimey! I only agreed with about 7% of his posts but I do actually miss them when he's gone. I imagine this will be (another) permaban. Sometimes, he just doesn't seem able to help himself :lol

Anyway, sorry for the threadjack, folks.

vtgrad

Gotta say that JP's first solo in ATM is insanely fun to play... just an awesome passage!  The progression behind that solo (and behind JR's solo before it) is also fun to hammer out... big, sweeping feeling to them both.