Flowers

[Harmony]

This clip absolutely breaks my heart.  I'm going to post it without further comment at the moment.  But I have questions for you guys....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIGqKos4-sY

[lonestar]

No questions necessary. Hard to think anyone thinks toxic masculinity isn't a thing.



I did give it a like so Nick would quit smoking though.

[MinistroRaven]

If an unknown person gives me a rose out of nowhere I wouldn't feel bad receiving it, IDK why those guys were so mad for a flower.

I liked the video maybe it will make that old man quick smoking.

[Ben_Jamin]

It is Chicago. Also, this relates to the street culture of Black People and their idea of what being a "pussy" is and it's seen as a challenge to their dominance.

No way is this suggesting masculinity. What they see it as is, "why is another man giving me a flower, I ain't gay?" As you hear there response questions, it is "Why"..."why are you giving me this?" "What do I need this for?"

To understand why they are reacting in such a way, you need to look into the street culture of the black people.

Now if that was a women who gave them those flowers, it would be more fascinating.

Edit: The man at 1:40 gave a damn good excuse for not taking the flower. "I'm going back to my female, bro, I don't need no f****** flowers bro."

[Elite]

@Benjamin; without watching the entire video, why is that a good excuses? Taking flowers back to your girlfriend is something she’ll probably appreciate, regardless of where it came from.

[Ben_Jamin]

@Benjamin; without watching the entire video, why is that a good excuses? Taking flowers back to your girlfriend is something she’ll probably appreciate, regardless of where it came from.

That is not how some females would take it. As I said, you need to understand the street culture of black people. The women tend to be highly jealous, and this is not just the black women, the Native women are just as guilty as this. Their first reaction would be..."Where the hell did you get that flower? You seeing another women?" Would you want to deal with that conversation if you know your women is already having a day like that?

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

@Benjamin; without watching the entire video, why is that a good excuses? Taking flowers back to your girlfriend is something she’ll probably appreciate, regardless of where it came from.

That is not how some females would take it. As I said, you need to understand the street culture of black people. The women tend to be highly jealous, and this is not just the black women, the Native women are just as guilty as this. Their first reaction would be..."Where the hell did you get that flower? You seeing another women?" Would you want to deal with that conversation if you know your women is already having a day like that?

My question is, why would anyone want to be with a woman like that? Regardless of race/culture.

[Ben_Jamin]

@Benjamin; without watching the entire video, why is that a good excuses? Taking flowers back to your girlfriend is something she’ll probably appreciate, regardless of where it came from.

That is not how some females would take it. As I said, you need to understand the street culture of black people. The women tend to be highly jealous, and this is not just the black women, the Native women are just as guilty as this. Their first reaction would be..."Where the hell did you get that flower? You seeing another women?" Would you want to deal with that conversation if you know your women is already having a day like that?

My question is, why would anyone want to be with a woman like that? Regardless of race/culture.

You'd be surprised at what people will tolerate for love. But what I think it's about isn't love or anything like that. It's due to dependency, and having co-dependency. Some can't handle being alone and need that dependency of another. So they'll tolerate it to not lose that dependency.

[King Postwhore]

@Benjamin; without watching the entire video, why is that a good excuses? Taking flowers back to your girlfriend is something she’ll probably appreciate, regardless of where it came from.

That is not how some females would take it. As I said, you need to understand the street culture of black people. The women tend to be highly jealous, and this is not just the black women, the Native women are just as guilty as this. Their first reaction would be..."Where the hell did you get that flower? You seeing another women?" Would you want to deal with that conversation if you know your women is already having a day like that?

Ben, no woman would ask where did you get the flower.  You just have to know I'd the girl you are with likes flowers or not. 

I'd say thank you, my wife would love this flower.

[Lonk]

They could've just say "No thank you" and move on, or take the flower and say "Thank you" and if they were really bothered by it just throw it out as soon as they left the store.

If the concern is how your partner is going to react, then that a whole different issue about how healthy and honest your relationship is, and nothing to do with the video here.

[Ben_Jamin]

@Benjamin; without watching the entire video, why is that a good excuses? Taking flowers back to your girlfriend is something she’ll probably appreciate, regardless of where it came from.

That is not how some females would take it. As I said, you need to understand the street culture of black people. The women tend to be highly jealous, and this is not just the black women, the Native women are just as guilty as this. Their first reaction would be..."Where the hell did you get that flower? You seeing another women?" Would you want to deal with that conversation if you know your women is already having a day like that?

Ben, no woman would ask where did you get the flower.  You just have to know I'd the girl you are with likes flowers or not. 

I'd say thank you, my wife would love this flower.

You do not know Black or Native women. There are memes related to these relationships. Such as...




She'd do this before you even get a chance to mention where you got the flower.

But as I said as well, his female could have been having one of those days, and any hint of things like that, especially if you don't already do these sorts of gestures, will make them get suspicious.

I will say as well...Native Women are not like White American women.

[King Postwhore]

You obviously haven't dated much. I have dated a black woman, French Canadian and married a feisty red he'd.

You find out a woman's like first. If she loves flowers,  she will love you bringing a flower home to her.

If she is untrusting, dump her.  It's not worth the problem.

[Ben_Jamin]

You obviously haven't dated much. I have dated a black woman, French Canadian and married a feisty red he'd.

You find out a woman's like first. If she loves flowers,  she will love you bringing a flower home to her.

If she is untrusting, dump her.  It's not worth the problem.

Yeah, cause it's so easy for them to understand this concept. 

Do you understand the street culture? This is the main point of my discussions. The black men, due to the street culture, have a sense of masculinity and dominance so they can be better prepared for the harsh treatments of the streets, and this includes being a homosexual (which is seen as weak, and similar to being a women) akin to how it is in Prison culture, they have gender roles within the culture. One of the many problems they are facing within the Black community is the lack of Father figures to assert that dominance in the family social structure. That Father figure would be there to teach these men not to be like this, how to treat a women by seeing their father treat their mother with respect. Children only know what they imitate, and in the streets, it's the gang lifestyle. All they have to get out of the streets is Sports. Which is sad. No sense of being dependent on oneself to break free of the street gang lifestyle and further themselves to help their own people. I could get more into this, but It gets into Political/Religious territory.

[wolfking]

A female getting angry their man is bringing them a flower as a loving gesture? 

Have you had any interaction with women at all Ben?

[wolfking]

You obviously haven't dated much. I have dated a black woman, French Canadian and married a feisty red he'd.

You find out a woman's like first. If she loves flowers,  she will love you bringing a flower home to her.

If she is untrusting, dump her.  It's not worth the problem.

Yeah, cause it's so easy for them to understand this concept. 

Do you understand the street culture? This is the main point of my discussions. The black men, due to the street culture, have a sense of masculinity and dominance so they can be better prepared for the harsh treatments of the streets, and this includes being a homosexual (which is seen as weak, and similar to being a women) akin to how it is in Prison culture, they have gender roles within the culture. One of the many problems they are facing within the Black community is the lack of Father figures to assert that dominance in the family social structure. That Father figure would be there to teach these men not to be like this, how to treat a women by seeing their father treat their mother with respect. Children only know what they imitate, and in the streets, it's the gang lifestyle. All they have to get out of the streets is Sports. Which is sad. No sense of being dependent on oneself to break free of the street gang lifestyle and further themselves to help their own people. I could get more into this, but It gets into Political/Religious territory.

You got all of this from a thread about flowers? 

[King Postwhore]

Women don't act that way with flowers. Men do.  A dude hands a dude a flower and he can lose it.

Now if I hand my wife a new vacuum or a mop on the other hand......

[wolfking]

Women don't act that way with flowers. Men do.  A dude hands a dude a flower and he can lose it.

Now if I hand my wife a new vacuum or a mop on the other hand......

Just hand her those things after you hand her the flowers. 

[King Postwhore]

I'm still dead. Lol

[Ben_Jamin]

You obviously haven't dated much. I have dated a black woman, French Canadian and married a feisty red he'd.

You find out a woman's like first. If she loves flowers,  she will love you bringing a flower home to her.

If she is untrusting, dump her.  It's not worth the problem.

Yeah, cause it's so easy for them to understand this concept. 

Do you understand the street culture? This is the main point of my discussions. The black men, due to the street culture, have a sense of masculinity and dominance so they can be better prepared for the harsh treatments of the streets, and this includes being a homosexual (which is seen as weak, and similar to being a women) akin to how it is in Prison culture, they have gender roles within the culture. One of the many problems they are facing within the Black community is the lack of Father figures to assert that dominance in the family social structure. That Father figure would be there to teach these men not to be like this, how to treat a women by seeing their father treat their mother with respect. Children only know what they imitate, and in the streets, it's the gang lifestyle. All they have to get out of the streets is Sports. Which is sad. No sense of being dependent on oneself to break free of the street gang lifestyle and further themselves to help their own people. I could get more into this, but It gets into Political/Religious territory.

You got all of this from a thread about flowers? 

That video was not just about flowers. That video was showing the reactions of the black community to being given a Flower. I was just explaining why I think that guy had a good excuse for not accepting that flower. That guy knows his women, and if he were to arrive at home with a flower, she would've probably beat his ass.

Just look at the reaction from that other women who hasn't been given a flower for a long time. That also says a lot about why she has not received flowers. Because the men act in that manner, dismiss it as a sign degrading their masculinity, due to the harsh treatment of street life, those men could also be in gangs or some other form of things like that where being seen with something of a feminine sort would get others talking about seeing you with a flower, and then you'll hear from everyone in the streets. The streets are rough, the streets are harsh, the streets will break you down with words and name calling. This is one reason it's hard for them to escape that, as they want to belong and this attitude is a part of wanting to be in the "In" group, as no one wants the treatment for being in the "out" group. What they also do is a racial "In/Out" situation. Like doing things that they consider, "white people shit".

I am telling you. It's a lot more complicated than many of you are assuming.

I guess it's a general response to this post...

If an unknown person gives me a rose out of nowhere I wouldn't feel bad receiving it, IDK why those guys were so mad for a flower.

I liked the video maybe it will make that old man quick smoking.

[Ben_Jamin]

Women don't act that way with flowers. Men do.  A dude hands a dude a flower and he can lose it.

Now if I hand my wife a new vacuum or a mop on the other hand......

Just hand her those things after you hand her the flowers. 

What about handing her a Flower-Styled broom. 

She'd probably say, Awe thanks for the flower...then wack you with the broom. 

[King Postwhore]

You buy a vacuum together snd she's happy.  Bring it as a gift and you're road kill.

[TAC]

Having not watched the video, but reading the thread, I was thinking WTF?
Seemed like a strange conversation going on.

I wasn't going to, but I watched the video.

I love the second guy. "I paid for my f'n snickers, man". Talk about a dude that needs a Snickers!

[King Postwhore]

 

[Ben_Jamin]

Having not watched the video, but reading the thread, I was thinking WTF?
Seemed like a strange conversation going on.

I wasn't going to, but I watched the video.

I love the second guy. "I paid for my f'n snickers, man". Talk about a dude that needs a Snickers!

 

[jingle.boy]

RJ nailed it in the very first response here... toxic masculinity.  I'll throw in a dash of homophobia.  That's the source of these reactions.  Maybe "street culture" is an indirect cause, but those two things are the surface issues.

[Kotowboy]

.

[Stadler]

I need to switch computers to actually see the video, but man, I can't WAIT to watch this.   

EDIT:  First, it's a video; I would love to know how many roses were given out to get the five or six "What am I, some kind of bitch!?!"    ANd the premise is contrived.  Meaning, "giving a flower" isn't a stand alone, independent act.   There is an entire TV show where the centerpiece of the show is the giving of a rose to express love.  I don't know about any of you, but we used to have two dances in my high school, one was the Sadie Hawkins dance and the other I don't remember the name, where the invite was through a rose.  You buy a rose at lunch and they deliver them near the end of the day and that's the invite to the dance.  That woman in red reacted EXACTLY the same as the men did, she was just far more open to it than the men.  It was still an emotional reaction (I think she even tried to get digits from the guy who gave it to her).

So it's not a surprise that there's a presumption about the "meaning" of a flower.   

And then there's this: I'm not sure we're being entirely fair to Ben here; data has since underplayed the differences, but when the AIDS crisis was at it's height, it was an accepted corollary that there's a greater stigma against homosexuality in the Black community. 

But even with all that, there are other factors in play:  I would NEVER have said "what do you think I am, some kind of BITCH?" or anything like that, but I would not have taken the flower.   I think it was the third or fourth guy that that sort of demurred and left it.  It's got nothing to do with homophobia or my wife or anything like that, I'm just not a trusting soul in situation like that.  I don't want to be a guinea pig, I don't want to be a part of a video or an experiment, just leave me be.   Taking that flower would cause me stress as I over-thought why it was happening.  I would have left it, politely said thanks, and said "give it to someone that needs it more than I do" or something like that.

[Harmony]

I do think that considering their culture is important and I think Ben brought up some fair points.  That said, I would wager that doing this same sort of thing in certain areas of white culture would bring similar reactions, if not more violent responses from men.

Toxic masculinity and homophobia were my first thoughts and I agree that is part of this but I think it goes deeper than just that.  I see pain in all of these people.  Even with MJ, I mean Kaleed says something like "It's real.  All natural."  And I wonder do these people never see flowers in their communities?

And I don't know if you caught the man who refused the flower and yet took the petal with him.  It just broke my heart.

I'm not going to lie, the anger and hostility of most of those men disturbed me.  It would be one thing to just decline and give it back, but to become violent and aggressive makes me fear for women and children in their lives.

Some interesting comments I read on the post I first saw this on (posted by a black woman and most comments appear to be from black people):

"nothing masculine about this, these is just kids who never grown to adulthood psychologically."

"This is in the hood where the men don’t have money, power, or respect. Many look at manhood as to how well a man can provide and protect and when you can do that, they look for other ways to prove their masculinity. That’s where the aggression comes from."

"Maybe if the adult men around them in their youth didn't shame & beat them every instant they showed emotion or interest in something "feminine", they wouldn't be like that."

"I have said it before and I’ll say it again. Our people are suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. These men have no light in them and it demonstrates the manner in which most of them return kindness."

"Such levels of internalized oppression. So painful to watch. I'm guessing those men - like most of us - are so committed to maintaining their place in the dominance hierarchy that an appeal to connection and softness appears to be an existential threat."

I did give it a like so Nick would quit smoking though.

Me too.  And yet somehow, I feel in my bones that out there Nick is still smoking. 

[KevShmev]

Aside from the reactions, which have been covered here already, I will say that the guy offering the flower did a great job of trolling the customers.  He was obviously looking for reactions, and he got them.  Well done.

[Ben_Jamin]

I do think that considering their culture is important and I think Ben brought up some fair points.  That said, I would wager that doing this same sort of thing in certain areas of white culture would bring similar reactions, if not more violent responses from men.

Toxic masculinity and homophobia were my first thoughts and I agree that is part of this but I think it goes deeper than just that.  I see pain in all of these people.  Even with MJ, I mean Kaleed says something like "It's real.  All natural."  And I wonder do these people never see flowers in their communities?

And I don't know if you caught the man who refused the flower and yet took the petal with him.  It just broke my heart.

I'm not going to lie, the anger and hostility of most of those men disturbed me.  It would be one thing to just decline and give it back, but to become violent and aggressive makes me fear for women and children in their lives.

Some interesting comments I read on the post I first saw this on (posted by a black woman and most comments appear to be from black people):

"nothing masculine about this, these is just kids who never grown to adulthood psychologically."

"This is in the hood where the men don’t have money, power, or respect. Many look at manhood as to how well a man can provide and protect and when you can do that, they look for other ways to prove their masculinity. That’s where the aggression comes from."

"Maybe if the adult men around them in their youth didn't shame & beat them every instant they showed emotion or interest in something "feminine", they wouldn't be like that."

"I have said it before and I’ll say it again. Our people are suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. These men have no light in them and it demonstrates the manner in which most of them return kindness."

"Such levels of internalized oppression. So painful to watch. I'm guessing those men - like most of us - are so committed to maintaining their place in the dominance hierarchy that an appeal to connection and softness appears to be an existential threat."

I did give it a like so Nick would quit smoking though.

Me too.  And yet somehow, I feel in my bones that out there Nick is still smoking.

Exactly, that pain is from the consequences of them being brought here, mistreated, and then set free with these mistreatments still being felt and done by those that did the mistreatment.

This is the effects of that sort of psychological damage. As was said in the comments, and in other videos I have seen in regards to the black community, one of the biggest issues is the lack of the father figure. This is seen and there are Black Men who are trying to fix this problem, and the idea of the feminization of the Black Man is where these Black Men see it as also a problem, as the Black Man and what he represents in nurturing the family, is being diminished by that.

I can post a vid of such Black Men ...

Dads help curb violence at Louisiana School

The Importance of Fathers


Also, I would like to know what you think of his other reaction videos. Which shows his main intention is to just get reactions from these people be interacts with everyday. And even at that, it's not many who do respond in the way he wants to present in his videos. I am sure there were many others he did this with that said, "Thanks for the flower, I'm gonna give this to my boo." Or something similar to that.

Do you think it would be more beneficial if he posted a positive reaction video to show that Chicago is not as bad as media and society make it out to be? It could've helped, but those don't bring it much views and shares as a negative reaction video, especially to something seen as positive such as a flower.

[Cool Chris]

Didn't watch much of this video, things like that just make me sad. I am guessing this is as close to the mark as anything: "nothing masculine about this, these is just kids who never grown to adulthood psychologically." And yes, there has to be a cultural element to this as well. But I am a middle class white suburbanite so I probably shouldn't comment on that, even if I knew what to say.

[lonestar]

Didn't watch much of this video, things like that just make me sad. I am guessing this is as close to the mark as anything: "nothing masculine about this, these is just kids who never grown to adulthood psychologically." And yes, there has to be a cultural element to this as well. But I am a middle class white suburbanite so I probably shouldn't comment on that, even if I knew what to say.

Lot's said in this small sentence, and it's backed by the video. The instant and overblown protective response of the men is so indicative of that reactive immaturity of a child. I remember back when I was in school in the 80s and being called 'gay' or a 'faggot' was the absolute worst in insults, demanding an immediate and full scale aggressive response, where you had to establish dominance or be considered weak as fuck. There was no middle ground. None.

[King Postwhore]

I worked at a grocery store in my early adulthood. I worked sometimes in the garden center.   This guy was asking me to a party.

I was stunned.  I stumbled through saying that it was a school night and I had homework.   I didn't freak out.  I was taken aback and fumbled saying no thank you. 

My boss heard it all and after he left he razzed me.  One of the only time, I was lost for words.  Lol

[jingle.boy]

Didn't watch much of this video, things like that just make me sad. I am guessing this is as close to the mark as anything: "nothing masculine about this, these is just kids who never grown to adulthood psychologically." And yes, there has to be a cultural element to this as well. But I am a middle class white suburbanite so I probably shouldn't comment on that, even if I knew what to say.

Lot's said in this small sentence, and it's backed by the video. The instant and overblown protective response of the men is so indicative of that reactive immaturity of a child. I remember back when I was in school in the 80s and being called 'gay' or a 'faggot' was the absolute worst in insults, demanding an immediate and full scale aggressive response, where you had to establish dominance or be considered weak as fuck. There was no middle ground. None.

I remember when "You have 2 gay dads" was a massive insult.  Kinda sad now to think back to what society's views were on homosexuality back in the 70s and 80s.