A View From The Top Of The World track discussion

[AVFTTOTW]

I love this track to bits, not a second I think is wasted.

I'm fascinated what nuggets we can find in it 

The opening pattern is like out of Meshuggah or something (which is damn awesome), then the bit we get after that reminds me of Bridges In The Sky, then a guitar solo over a 12/8 thing which feels like Take The Time, before back into Bridges In The Sky on steroids for the first verse. Then Take The Time again for the Chorus, then a transition into what feels like Learning To Live, then a transition and another chorus. The instrumental section (around 8 minutes) feels like Outcry combined with 8VM.
I'll leave comparisons aside for the rest of the song for now.
I love the way it arranges these ideas though.


What are your thoughts on the track? I find it vastly superior to any of their epics since ITPOE in my humble opinion. Anyway 

[TAC]

I think everything about it is excellent EXCEPT...the note that "legacy" ends on is so anticlimactic. I know they talked about the influence of ACOS on it, but this song screamed for it's "I will live ooooooonnnnnnnnn" moment. It just never comes.

[AVFTTOTW]

I think everything about it is excellent EXCEPT...the note that "legacy" ends on is so anticlimactic. I know they talked about the influence of ACOS on it, but this song screamed for it's "I will live ooooooonnnnnnnnn" moment. It just never comes.

I feel the ending is almost like a mini Octavarium-type thing "it ends where it begins", that's my impression at least.


edit;
Although ACOS does open and end with the same guitar bit, so maybe I spoke to soon 

[TAC]

And that could've been what they were going for. The ending vocal part on Bridges In the Sky is similar.

I just feel like the song never climaxes.

[lucasembarbosa]

Same think here. But I enjoy it anyways... PBD has the same feel.

I didn't figured out the time signature for the opening riff, did anyone get it?

[AVFTTOTW]

I think the issue people may be observing is the last of drastic contrast the ending of this epic has compared to what is found in others.
The ending sounds awesome but it feels like a build-up not the pinnacle.

One of the things I thought a few listens ago was that the middle section (around 13 minutes in) sounds like the grand finale, like they've re-ordered the song to f** with our expectations, IDK.

[The Letter M]

Same think here. But I enjoy it anyways... PBD has the same feel.

I didn't figured out the time signature for the opening riff, did anyone get it?

It's in 23.

-Marc.

[AVFTTOTW]

It may have been a conscious decision for them because back when they did Illumination Theory they basically attempted the same kind of ending as 8VM (complete with the continuously ascending Queen-like guitar solo). TCOT (if we count it as an epic) had an extremely long climax (almost half the song, to the point where it could almost feel like two separate songs in a way).

ACOS, like ITPOE later on was a more narrative-based epic, so it had a more linear and thematic (in the literary sense) way of unveiling it's musical form.

SDIOT was a different can of worms (more like walking through an art-gallery but based around the Overture/Finale bookend which gives it uniformity).


AVFTTOTW is one I haven't penetrated yet but will soon enough, it definitely seems to aspire towards ACOS but is a single-movement epic (the uniquely first? the second?) with a different way of conceptualizing time and thematic material within it's duration.

[sfam2112]

TCOT (if we count it as an epic) had an extremely long climax

Now, waaaaait a minute, man... 

[erwinrafael]

I think everything about it is excellent EXCEPT...the note that "legacy" ends on is so anticlimactic. I know they talked about the influence of ACOS on it, but this song screamed for it's "I will live ooooooonnnnnnnnn" moment. It just never comes.

Which is one of the brave decisions that they made in this song. They were building up so much anticipation with Mangini going double pedal then boom, a complete left turn.

It's followed by another brave decision, with Mangini not going MP-Finally Free mode in the ending, drumming with measured restraint that I actually felt so tense throughout that ending.

I would be very afraid to drum this monster of a song. Much more difficult than The Dance of Eternity. That one you can cover your mistakes because you just keep on hitting and hitting until you get the right accent again but this one, with many of the difficult parts in the breaks and rests, a wrong hit will be heard and magnified.

[evilasiojr]

This song is great, a lot better than IT for me, but still not as good as other epics like ACoS and 8V.

I think there are some missed opportunities, some really nice parts that could've been more explored, including the ending. It reminded me of Leprous' The Sky is Red, which ends with an odd riff that you need time to wrap your head around, but it's repeated some times and so creatively that it works almost like a mantra. A View almost got there, a few more bars with some different touches on drums and keys would have delivered it I think.

But the final vocal melody and harmony behind it, that whole part, it is really really good!!

[NoFred]

I think the issue people may be observing is the last of drastic contrast the ending of this epic has compared to what is found in others.
The ending sounds awesome but it feels like a build-up not the pinnacle.

One of the things I thought a few listens ago was that the middle section (around 13 minutes in) sounds like the grand finale, like they've re-ordered the song to f** with our expectations, IDK.

Still in my first listen, but first line after the cello refers to beginning the descent, I think you nailed it that the middle is the finale.

Oh yeah the tempo and rambling aggression in the second half - all descending allusions IMO

ETA: last verse locks it for me, the end of the song is the “recovery/reflection” climax is definitely the cello pause (which was fantastic)

[Ben_Jamin]

I'd rank this among those like A Count Of Tuscany and In The Presence of Enemies.

It almost hit's the level of Octavarium though.

I need to hear it more though to really gather my thoughts about the entire song.

[AVFTTOTW]

The abrupt turn around after 14 minutes in after the false-finale (as I'll call it), is the most epic thing ever.

It was all like "goodnight folks we're out" kind of thing with the guitar solo too, and then it goes BOOM epic riff (kind of either like ANTR or Fatal Tragedy), such a great turn around of mood. And the second instrumental section which greatly contrasts the instrumental section we had before the 9 minute mark.

Having listened to it like ten times now over the past few days I think I understand what the song is going for now. It's quite marvelous IMHO.

I think the last verse or bridge (whatever) is intentionally an anti-climactic ending because the song is trying to slow down rather than going out with the epic finale we got around 10-14 minutes into the song.

[erwinrafael]

Can I just say thank you to Dream Theater for keeping the integrity of this epic and not splitting this song into separate tracks just to bloat streaming plays and revenues like Haken.

[AVFTTOTW]

Can I just say thank you to Dream Theater for keeping the integrity of this epic and not splitting this song into separate tracks just to bloat streaming plays and revenues like Haken.

Yep and another tick for not even specifying any movements (as far as I know, my CD hasn't delivered yet) in the tracklisting.

[nikatapi]

Can I just say thank you to Dream Theater for keeping the integrity of this epic and not splitting this song into separate tracks just to bloat streaming plays and revenues like Haken.

Yep and another tick for not even specifying any movements (as far as I know, my CD hasn't delivered yet) in the tracklisting.

There's three movements actually.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/k2FTMu9mENu5PJQk6

[AVFTTOTW]

Can I just say thank you to Dream Theater for keeping the integrity of this epic and not splitting this song into separate tracks just to bloat streaming plays and revenues like Haken.

Yep and another tick for not even specifying any movements (as far as I know, my CD hasn't delivered yet) in the tracklisting.

There's three movements actually.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/k2FTMu9mENu5PJQk6

Ok thank you, forget I said that 

However the three part structure is noticeable, albeit the transitions between the first two parts being seamless while the second to the third being abrupt and epic.

[RoeDent]

Can I just say thank you to Dream Theater for keeping the integrity of this epic and not splitting this song into separate tracks just to bloat streaming plays and revenues like Haken.

So you don't want bands to make money from their music?

[erwinrafael]

Of course I do, which is why I keep on repeat listening through Spotify even if I already purchased the tracks.

[Pettor]

Yeah Haken Messiah Complex is annoying as hell with it's split keeping me from listening to it basically. I think DT epics wouldn't work at all. Image 8V or ACOS being split like that, what an awful idea that would be. Massiah Complex is a bit difference in the sense that it walks a fine grey line between suite or movements belonging to one grand epic. However I think if money was the incentive behind it it doesn't work very well. SDOIT works a lot better since with it's 43 minute running time every song gets to breathe a lot more AND we have one great version from Score. SDOIT feels more like a suite than MC actually.

[Lax]

First listening was a little disrupted, being a little dizzy from all that happened in the tracks before.
I, too, didn't expect the epic to be so dark sounding, but WOW the reprise of the second half just feels like being smashed like a volleyball, WHAT ENERGY !
I read some people finding the ending not epic enough, it felt fine to me, I guess good for me

[Pettor]

The intro to AVFTTOTW is quite amazing. The epic dark vibes with that large grandiose drumming is 🤤 I really do understand the PBD comparisons and I think this track is how I always wished PBD would turn out.

[Dellers]

I love it after one listen. Especially the beginning is really cool, but the whole song flew by really quickly. I was really surprised when it ended, didn't think I had been listening for that long.

I think everything about it is excellent EXCEPT...the note that "legacy" ends on is so anticlimactic. I know they talked about the influence of ACOS on it, but this song screamed for it's "I will live ooooooonnnnnnnnn" moment. It just never comes.

This is the only thing I don't like about the song. When he ended on that note I was thinking "WHY?". Well, that and the awful autotune at 17:56. You just don't leave something like that in the final product, I'd rather have a note that is slightly off. You have to sing really out of tune to sound worse than tuned vocals. Speaking of vocals, I think I can sing along to this whole album, that's a first considering that I'm a fairly deep baritone and lost my whole upper range a few years ago.

[Kotowboy]

On second listen. 

Better than : A Change of Seasons & In The Presence Of Enemies.

On par : The Count Of Tuscany.

Not as good as : Octavarium. I hear a few nods in there though.

[Kotowboy]

LOVE that descending piano scale JR does around 13:55. 😍. Then that sleazy riff.

[ReaPsTA]

I think everything about it is excellent EXCEPT...the note that "legacy" ends on is so anticlimactic. I know they talked about the influence of ACOS on it, but this song screamed for it's "I will live ooooooonnnnnnnnn" moment. It just never comes.

I feel the ending is almost like a mini Octavarium-type thing "it ends where it begins", that's my impression at least.


edit;
Although ACOS does open and end with the same guitar bit, so maybe I spoke to soon 

Considering the lyrics and message of the song, it feels like it's basically saying, here is the path you can chose to walk, this was my story, now it's time for you to start your own.

In that sense, again keeping with the message of the song, it's very well done to end it on that kind of note. Like if you just end it on the final epic section, you're just living vicariously through someone's journey. The end of it through the music puts it back on you and is a call to action.

[TAC]

The intro to AVFTTOTW is quite amazing. The epic dark vibes with that large grandiose drumming is 🤤 I really do understand the PBD comparisons and I think this track is how I always wished PBD would turn out.

The first thing the intro made me think of was Jacob’s Ladder.

[Lonk]

The song at 14:15 reminds me of AROP a little bit (Not a bad thing at all since I like AROP) 

[dtrocker25]

Would Dream Theater dare open with the Title track live ...probably not but I would freak if they did..it’s opening sequence is perfect for it...and I love the track ..Majestic

[wasteland]

Would Dream Theater dare open with the Title track live ...probably not but I would freak if they did..it’s opening sequence is perfect for it...and I love the track ..Majestic

I was actually considering this earlier today. I can see a case being made that the intro is very well suited for the beginning of the concert, but overall I would say it fits much better as a set closer / encore, if anything because of the sheer epicness of its finale.

Think of the concert setting: the crowd is completely fired up after this beautiful monster epic, then what? How do you follow up without breaking the momentum? You can't just go "Hello <city_name>! We are so happy to be back, I hope you liked the piece we just played! We have a great show for you tonight, the next song is <random_song_name>!"

[lucasembarbosa]

I might be wrong, but the cello in the middle break might be Jordan with GeoShred...

[TAC]

Can someone explain to me what is happening in the Rapture Of The Deep section?

[Dream Team]

JP’s lyrics are awesome on the title track.

First listen this morning; Grade A effort from a band 15 albums deep.

[AVFTTOTW]

Yeah Haken Messiah Complex is annoying as hell with it's split keeping me from listening to it basically. I think DT epics wouldn't work at all. Image 8V or ACOS being split like that, what an awful idea that would be. Massiah Complex is a bit difference in the sense that it walks a fine grey line between suite or movements belonging to one grand epic. However I think if money was the incentive behind it it doesn't work very well. SDOIT works a lot better since with it's 43 minute running time every song gets to breathe a lot more AND we have one great version from Score. SDOIT feels more like a suite than MC actually.

IMHO, SDOIT feels like one song up until Solitary Shell where there is a strong mood change from the rest of the song, even though later on after the guitar solo (of Solitary Shell) it drifts back into stylistic continuity with the rest of the track.

Taking Solitary Shell as a starting point, one could take it to be a suite of separate songs, but taking the Overture as the starting point with reference to the Grand Finale makes it quite apparent as one large song.
The splitting of the song into tracks though was both a blessing and a curse. One such instance is that you have to stitch them together into one track in order to put them on a shuffle playlist (so that it plays like 8VM and other songs would in a playlist), but often there are particular sections that one would prefer to listen to (like TTTSTA) over others at times.

There are multiple factors to SDOIT that make it leave the impression of a single song (as intended) compared to SFAM, even though that SFAM is also comprising of tracks that flow into each other (mostly).