Author Topic: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread  (Read 140811 times)

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Offline skydivingninja

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1750 on: November 26, 2021, 11:37:07 AM »
The album isn't very good, IMO. :/ It's kind of a shame, after not liking either DT12 or the Astonishing, I was very surprised with how much I liked (and still like) Distance Over Time and was hoping DT were back on an upward trend, quality-wise. The title track is pretty good, Answering the Call is fine, and Sleeping Giant is musically interesting, but every other song is just like stuff we've heard from the band before, but the hooks and songwriting aren't as good. The lyrics in particular are a huge weak point. They're almost a parody of themselves with how esoteric and deep-sounding they try to be. I'm catching them this tour (and kicking myself for not going to the Scenes show in my area) and I hope they don't focus too much on this one in the set.

And re: grammys
Anyone remember how DT ever got nominated the first time? Kinda bizarre when you think about it. Was it for On The Backs Of Angels?

Yeah, it was for OTBOA. I still remember MP making comments about how the nomination wasn't really because of the song but because of their 25+ year career. Man, was he bitter back then :lol

MP can be bitter and wear his heart on his sleeve way too proudly, but I don't think he's entirely wrong. I love OTBOA but the Grammys tend to be 10+ years behind the times when it comes to nominating metal.

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1751 on: November 26, 2021, 01:10:39 PM »
The album isn't very good, IMO. :/ It's kind of a shame, after not liking either DT12 or the Astonishing, I was very surprised with how much I liked (and still like) Distance Over Time and was hoping DT were back on an upward trend, quality-wise. The title track is pretty good, Answering the Call is fine, and Sleeping Giant is musically interesting, but every other song is just like stuff we've heard from the band before, but the hooks and songwriting aren't as good. The lyrics in particular are a huge weak point. They're almost a parody of themselves with how esoteric and deep-sounding they try to be. I'm catching them this tour (and kicking myself for not going to the Scenes show in my area) and I hope they don't focus too much on this one in the set.

And re: grammys
Anyone remember how DT ever got nominated the first time? Kinda bizarre when you think about it. Was it for On The Backs Of Angels?

Yeah, it was for OTBOA. I still remember MP making comments about how the nomination wasn't really because of the song but because of their 25+ year career. Man, was he bitter back then :lol

MP can be bitter and wear his heart on his sleeve way too proudly, but I don't think he's entirely wrong. I love OTBOA but the Grammys tend to be 10+ years behind the times when it comes to nominating metal.

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Online Trav86

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1752 on: November 26, 2021, 03:26:22 PM »
Sometimes I think we get too caught up in rankings, so something new that comes out either has to be "the greatest thing they've ever done" or "rubbish". 

This is one of my favorite bands, and I was looking forward to a new release.  What they released is something that works for me, and I relish it.  "Good", "very good", "great", "masterpiece", I don't know man, time will tell.  I just know that I like it a lot.

I totally agree with this. There are maybe three or four albums that are just at the top, no matter what. They’ll probably never be beat because of nostalgia. Everything else is pretty much on the same level.
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Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1753 on: November 26, 2021, 07:07:31 PM »
Sometimes I think we get too caught up in rankings, so something new that comes out either has to be "the greatest thing they've ever done" or "rubbish". 

This is one of my favorite bands, and I was looking forward to a new release.  What they released is something that works for me, and I relish it.  "Good", "very good", "great", "masterpiece", I don't know man, time will tell.  I just know that I like it a lot.

I totally agree with this. There are maybe three or four albums that are just at the top, no matter what. They’ll probably never be beat because of nostalgia. Everything else is pretty much on the same level.

The nostalgia aspect is far too often ignored. We can talk about taste, but the fact is we will never forget the first few times a band resonated with us. For me, Images and Words, Scenes From a Memory, and Octavarium will most likely never be topped, as those were the first three albums that I head by Dream Theater, and all three, especially SFaM and 8vm, changed my life in different ways.

Another example I can give is with my favorite roller coaster, which, despite me having been on many coasters that are considered better, including one in the same park, but my favorite was the first one that made me fall in love with roller coasters, so no other ride will probably ever top it.

I can almost guarantee you, ask anyone what their favorite album is, it was probably one of the first ones they heard by a band or artist.
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1754 on: November 26, 2021, 08:16:45 PM »
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline skydivingninja

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1755 on: November 26, 2021, 09:10:39 PM »
Hey dad!  Long time no see!  How's parenthood going?!

Oh ya know, taking late night bottle feeding time to listen to the DT discography since it looks like they'll be my first post-kid show lol. Felt nostalgic and wanted to share my opinion for old time's sake.

Offline N4Player

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1756 on: November 27, 2021, 02:52:37 AM »
The album isn't very good, IMO. :/ It's kind of a shame, after not liking either DT12 or the Astonishing, I was very surprised with how much I liked (and still like) Distance Over Time and was hoping DT were back on an upward trend, quality-wise. The title track is pretty good, Answering the Call is fine, and Sleeping Giant is musically interesting, but every other song is just like stuff we've heard from the band before, but the hooks and songwriting aren't as good. The lyrics in particular are a huge weak point. They're almost a parody of themselves with how esoteric and deep-sounding they try to be. I'm catching them this tour (and kicking myself for not going to the Scenes show in my area) and I hope they don't focus too much on this one in the set.

And re: grammys
Anyone remember how DT ever got nominated the first time? Kinda bizarre when you think about it. Was it for On The Backs Of Angels?


Yeah, it was for OTBOA. I still remember MP making comments about how the nomination wasn't really because of the song but because of their 25+ year career. Man, was he bitter back then :lol

MP can be bitter and wear his heart on his sleeve way too proudly, but I don't think he's entirely wrong. I love OTBOA but the Grammys tend to be 10+ years behind the times when it comes to nominating metal.

I feel the same way as you. Loved Distance Over Time and was severely underwhelmed by DT12 and The Astonishing. However, this album is the worst yet for me as there isn't a single song on it that I can connect with. Perhaps it was Order of the Phoenix by Evergrey and Fortitude by Gojira that kicked so much ass this year, that my expectations were a little too high for this one. Having given it many listens and some time which Progressive Metal/Rock requires, I have put it out to pasture. I feel the production is sterile and lifeless, common with music and expectations these days, where the human element of variance is stripped in favour of even Steven. I'll put a lid on it when it comes to the vocals, keyboards, and guitars as well. That's just the way it comes across to me. I really think a producer of a high caliber would benefit this band more than ever, but that is not likely gonna happen. Perhaps binging on the Queensr˙che era from Rage for Order to Promised Land (the soundtrack of my life), was a terrible thing to do before listening to this. I don't know, starting to think I've outgrown this band or that the hyper marketing is overkill now. Easy skip for this tour. The lip syncing and the struggling vocals aren't worth the price of admission. The songwriting quality isn't up to par this time around. Don't care about the technical ability if the "song" aspect is weak, nothing saves it IMHO.

Offline Architeuthis

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1757 on: November 27, 2021, 07:37:11 AM »
To the contrary,  this is one of their best If not their best sounding albums to date. No matter how loud or quiet I listen to it, it sounds very rich and pleasant. Andy Sneap did a ridiculously good job mixing this album and I hope they keep him on board for future releases.
Nothing stale about the songwriting either, it sounds fresh and very inspired to me. All band members brought their "A" game to this project which is quite impressive at fifteen albums into their career.   What I like is that they are not riding on their coat tails as a nostalgia act, like so many bands these days. They're still innovating and getting better as musicians. Now that they have their own studio, they are not likely to slow down and have plenty left in their tank..  :coolio

« Last Edit: November 27, 2021, 07:43:00 AM by Architeuthis »
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Offline jammindude

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1758 on: November 27, 2021, 09:59:50 AM »
Ya…the lifeless sound comment is baffling. IIRC even most of the people that don’t like the album are of the opinion that is one of the better sound/mixed albums in their catalog.

It took me about a half dozen listens to finally wrap my head around the songs, but now I can’t get them out of my head. But even on the first couple of listens where I found absolutely nothing that grabbed me, I thought the sound was breathtaking
« Last Edit: November 27, 2021, 06:32:11 PM by jammindude »
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Offline N4Player

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1759 on: November 27, 2021, 12:35:09 PM »
All valid counterpoints. I guess it comes down to the song quality and the flow and if it doesn't get you, it doesn't get you. The other minutiae doesn't matter then. Let's see what they do next. Onwards and forwards. A band with such a vast catalogue is a gift, and it is natural to attach yourself to certain elements more than others.

Offline Architeuthis

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1760 on: November 27, 2021, 12:50:38 PM »
Yeah, I'm definitely looking forward to their next album. The next two years or so is gonna be a long wait.   :corn
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Offline LKap13

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1761 on: November 27, 2021, 01:04:22 PM »
I just keep listening to the album and periodically feel the urge to post the fact that this album is sooooo good. Not sure that adds anything to the discussion, but it's just so damn good. There's definitely a mood dependent element to it -- when mood is neutral, the album is good but when mood is great then the album just elevates you to another plane. The same can't be said for other recent releases IMO

Online wolfking

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1762 on: November 27, 2021, 01:07:32 PM »
All valid counterpoints. I guess it comes down to the song quality and the flow and if it doesn't get you, it doesn't get you. The other minutiae doesn't matter then. Let's see what they do next. Onwards and forwards. A band with such a vast catalogue is a gift, and it is natural to attach yourself to certain elements more than others.

I agree with you for the most part mate.  The album is a major disappointment, unfortunately.
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Offline TAC

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1763 on: November 27, 2021, 07:48:11 PM »
All valid counterpoints. I guess it comes down to the song quality and the flow and if it doesn't get you, it doesn't get you. The other minutiae doesn't matter then. Let's see what they do next. Onwards and forwards. A band with such a vast catalogue is a gift, and it is natural to attach yourself to certain elements more than others.

Yup, well said, and nothing wrong with that. Their catalog is indeed a gift.

Personally, I really love the new album, but I totally hear what you say.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline ZirconBlue

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1764 on: November 29, 2021, 10:01:26 AM »
So what is the difference between best song and best performance?


Best Song is an award for the songwriter(s).  Best Performance is for the specific recorded performance, and is awarded to the performers (as well as others involved in making the recording).


More explanations here

Offline svisser

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1765 on: November 29, 2021, 11:14:52 AM »
As I listen through their other CDs, I realize how much this new album is very true to their sound. I just finished listening to ASOC and I hear a lot of that song on the title track.
She can turn a drop of water
         Into an ocean
                                           In the room the women come and go
                                                 Talking of Michelangelo.

Offline Evermind

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1766 on: November 29, 2021, 11:30:12 AM »
Perhaps it was Order of the Phoenix by Evergrey

Personally I prefer their previous album, The Goblet of Fire.
This first band is Soen very cool swingy jazz fusion kinda stuff.

Offline Pettor

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1767 on: November 29, 2021, 01:10:18 PM »
Perhaps it was Order of the Phoenix by Evergrey

Personally I prefer their previous album, The Goblet of Fire.

Nah, when it comes to pure lyrics and songwriting I thought their previous previous album Fellowship of the Sing was better.

Offline DoctorAction

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1768 on: November 29, 2021, 01:54:05 PM »
I'm still really enjoying the album. Random points:

* It feels to me like an album where the vocals and lyrics are supporting the instrumental action. DoT felt the other way around, and I generally prefer it that way. However, JLB does a great job here and nothing in the vocals and lyrics makes me wince. (IM aside)

* The instrumental side is v uplifting to me

* The sound and mix are excellent. Tiny nitpicks are:
 it is a little over-clean; that snare sound is a bit dull and flat; the grid/click rigidity is a bit much - plleeeeeease record the base tracks live without a click next time. Being human won't hurt you!

But, I'm a happy camper. MM rankings remain:

DOT
AVFTTOTW
ADTOE
DT12
TA

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Offline dparrott

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1769 on: November 29, 2021, 03:25:09 PM »
Upon listen #2, Answering The Call is awesome, and I like most of Sleeping Giant except the choruses.  They kinda drag for me.
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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1770 on: November 29, 2021, 10:23:00 PM »
* The sound and mix are excellent. Tiny nitpicks are:
 it is a little over-clean; that snare sound is a bit dull and flat; the grid/click rigidity is a bit much - plleeeeeease record the base tracks live without a click next time. Being human won't hurt you!

What album has DT recorded without using a metronome?

Sorry, I really can not hear in my mind how not playing to a click will benefit any of the songs in this album.

Offline DoctorAction

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1771 on: November 29, 2021, 11:59:36 PM »
I didn't think they have but I can't think of anything on this album that wouldn't benefit from being played without a metronome. And I'm not just talking DT - unless it's electronic music, where the metronomic regularity is a key part of the vibe, do it without.

How could the human energy of live time-keeping/drumming/playing not be a plus? Why would you not want to hear what the band really sounds like?
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Offline the_silent_man

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1772 on: November 30, 2021, 12:48:51 AM »
* The sound and mix are excellent. Tiny nitpicks are:
 it is a little over-clean; that snare sound is a bit dull and flat; the grid/click rigidity is a bit much - plleeeeeease record the base tracks live without a click next time. Being human won't hurt you!

What album has DT recorded without using a metronome?

Sorry, I really can not hear in my mind how not playing to a click will benefit any of the songs in this album.

Yeah, gotta say I agree. You cant really critisise them for something that has always been their MO (clean production).
I've seen a few comments wishing DT would use a more live sound with imperfections etc included and to be honest I really can't see this happening for any of their remaining albums.

Offline tofee35

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1773 on: November 30, 2021, 02:31:16 AM »
I just keep listening to the album and periodically feel the urge to post the fact that this album is sooooo good. Not sure that adds anything to the discussion, but it's just so damn good. There's definitely a mood dependent element to it -- when mood is neutral, the album is good but when mood is great then the album just elevates you to another plane. The same can't be said for other recent releases IMO

I feel the exact same way. I think it's because I know that I love this album, but I no longer have the time to find out why. I just have to accept that I love it and it may be on par with my favorites, but my relationship to music and DT are different now. Mood and how the album makes me feel when I listen to it is all I have to go on...and I love it.

Tof

Offline DoctorAction

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1774 on: November 30, 2021, 03:29:23 AM »
* The sound and mix are excellent. Tiny nitpicks are:
 it is a little over-clean; that snare sound is a bit dull and flat; the grid/click rigidity is a bit much - plleeeeeease record the base tracks live without a click next time. Being human won't hurt you!

What album has DT recorded without using a metronome?

Sorry, I really can not hear in my mind how not playing to a click will benefit any of the songs in this album.

Yeah, gotta say I agree. You cant really critisise them for something that has always been their MO (clean production).
I've seen a few comments wishing DT would use a more live sound with imperfections etc included and to be honest I really can't see this happening for any of their remaining albums.

It's not a criticism. Not meant in a harsh way, at least. Just an area i would like to see changed. DT are some of the best musicians I've ever heard. I'd like to hear more of them in the recordings.

I'd be interested to hear any opinions that are pro click/metronome and why. Obvs, it's easy to record and edit. I do it myself. But in terms of the final product, surely it's a detriment not to hear how one of the best drummers in the world keeps time, pushes and pulls a beat, etc?
« Last Edit: November 30, 2021, 03:56:27 AM by DoctorAction »
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Offline Pettor

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1775 on: November 30, 2021, 05:27:12 AM »
So 2 month later is always a good time where an album will either leave me disappointed or showing the first signs of standing the test of time.

This one def feels fresh and exciting still. Right now I am at a stage where I feel a bit concerned when I start the album, since it's so dense and full of stuff. But everytime I enjoy a lot more than I think and there's not a single moment I want to skip. IM really have grown a lot and feels better when placed within the album. I won't be listening to it that much as a single but in the flow it does add a nice breather.

Otherwise I think this album only gets better and better over time. Initially melodies and solos didn't feel that special and now when I know them there's a lot of sing-a-long qualities. The solos have also become more interesting without having any Barstool Warrior mind-blown level solo 🤯 .

Offline RodrigoAltaf

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1776 on: November 30, 2021, 07:03:17 AM »
* The sound and mix are excellent. Tiny nitpicks are:
 it is a little over-clean; that snare sound is a bit dull and flat; the grid/click rigidity is a bit much - plleeeeeease record the base tracks live without a click next time. Being human won't hurt you!

What album has DT recorded without using a metronome?

Sorry, I really can not hear in my mind how not playing to a click will benefit any of the songs in this album.

Yeah, gotta say I agree. You cant really critisise them for something that has always been their MO (clean production).
I've seen a few comments wishing DT would use a more live sound with imperfections etc included and to be honest I really can't see this happening for any of their remaining albums.

It's not a criticism. Not meant in a harsh way, at least. Just an area i would like to see changed. DT are some of the best musicians I've ever heard. I'd like to hear more of them in the recordings.

I'd be interested to hear any opinions that are pro click/metronome and why. Obvs, it's easy to record and edit. I do it myself. But in terms of the final product, surely it's a detriment not to hear how one of the best drummers in the world keeps time, pushes and pulls a beat, etc?

I'm not an expert...but DT does have a few releases that are more organic sounding: Chaos in Motion, Once in a Livetime for example. And those are probably the most criticized efforts they released.

Offline DoctorAction

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1777 on: November 30, 2021, 07:17:51 AM »
I've never heard them. Ironically, I'm not a fan of live albums. :lol I've owned some other DT ones in the past, tho

I'm taking about the method of recording studio albums.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2021, 07:49:30 AM by DoctorAction »
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1778 on: November 30, 2021, 08:51:11 AM »
I've never heard them. Ironically, I'm not a fan of live albums. :lol I've owned some other DT ones in the past, tho

I'm taking about the method of recording studio albums.

All bands use a metronome when recording. It's to bring out the best of a product. In the end, an album is still a product that needs to be sold. People want quality, pristine, precision in their music nowadays and the products reflect that. Hence, it's related to how music players such as MP3 players or Ipods vastly changed the way the product is mastered with regards to volume. As people wore more earphones out in the streets, they needed to compensate for the outside loudness so their product could be heard through those cheap quality Ipod earphones, or those headphones you see at Walgreens.

If you watch the documentary of the album, it presents how and who made these engineering decisions. That is all Jimmy T. It's a reason he got production credits because he took those recorded parts and put them into his DAW and did his magic. Andy Sneap took those amazing Jimmy T recordings and did his magic which elevated a lot of the songs.

It's why I enjoy Answering The Call and Awaken The Master, as this production and mixing is best heard through these two songs.
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Offline Pettor

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1779 on: November 30, 2021, 08:56:25 AM »
I could understand the reasoning for not using clicks on live productions to allow more improvisations etc. but studio I see no point. As someone mentioned out, the clean sound is part of their sound even. Specially no reason to change since DoT and new CD sounds so good. I would argue Systematic Chaos and BC&SL are the sloppiest albums (just relative to everything else in DT world) and it just doesn't feel right. Not sure if they changed something for those albums or if it's just that they approached them more free.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1780 on: November 30, 2021, 10:08:42 AM »
Recording studio albums without a click is not really a thing in most kinds of music. So I have no idea why you are asking for it.

If you want to hear DT play without a click, listen to any of the Portnoy era live albums.  They were all done without a click.
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Online WilliamMunny

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1781 on: November 30, 2021, 11:05:06 AM »
Recording studio albums without a click is not really a thing in most kinds of music. So I have no idea why you are asking for it.

If you want to hear DT play without a click, listen to any of the Portnoy era live albums.  They were all done without a click.

Lots of massivly-successful 'classic rock' gems were recorded without a click.

I think the OP's point is that there's a different and/or lack of 'feel' on the newer albums. A matter of opinion, of course, but one that I happen to concur with.

That being said, all in all, I think DT's output has been tremendously consistent.

Nearly all of the folk/rock I listen to was recorded without a click...i think it depends on the genre.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1782 on: November 30, 2021, 12:40:19 PM »
Recording studio albums without a click is not really a thing in most kinds of music. So I have no idea why you are asking for it.

If you want to hear DT play without a click, listen to any of the Portnoy era live albums.  They were all done without a click.

Lots of massivly-successful 'classic rock' gems were recorded without a click.

I think the OP's point is that there's a different and/or lack of 'feel' on the newer albums. A matter of opinion, of course, but one that I happen to concur with.

That being said, all in all, I think DT's output has been tremendously consistent.

Nearly all of the folk/rock I listen to was recorded without a click...i think it depends on the genre.
Yes, things were done differently 40-50 years ago.

But these days, it is the industry standard to record to a click in a studio.  All of DT's studio work has been recorded to a click, as has virtually everyone else's, to such an extent that it's a weird thing to talk about. 

Any purported "lack of feel" isn't due to the presence of a click track.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1783 on: November 30, 2021, 12:48:09 PM »
I don't have an issue with a click on an album, and honestly haven't thought much about that.  The album, to me, is about the perfect recording of the music.  Now if we are talking live, my opinion completely changes and I would like to remove the click and let the music naturally flow off feel. 

Oh, and as others have said, the sound on this album is superb.  Awesome mix.  I'm a bit surprised by the few who feel differently, but we all do have different ears.

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1784 on: November 30, 2021, 01:45:03 PM »
Recording studio albums without a click is not really a thing in most kinds of music. So I have no idea why you are asking for it.

If you want to hear DT play without a click, listen to any of the Portnoy era live albums.  They were all done without a click.

Lots of massivly-successful 'classic rock' gems were recorded without a click.

I think the OP's point is that there's a different and/or lack of 'feel' on the newer albums. A matter of opinion, of course, but one that I happen to concur with.

That being said, all in all, I think DT's output has been tremendously consistent.

Nearly all of the folk/rock I listen to was recorded without a click...i think it depends on the genre.
Yes, things were done differently 40-50 years ago.

But these days, it is the industry standard to record to a click in a studio.  All of DT's studio work has been recorded to a click, as has virtually everyone else's, to such an extent that it's a weird thing to talk about. 

Any purported "lack of feel" isn't due to the presence of a click track.

Respectfully, 'Industry Standard' for rock/metal is not necessarily the standard for all genres. Jazz, Folk, Americana, (the list goes on) artists are all recording 'live on the floor.' Splitting hairs for sure, but sometimes I feel it's important to acknoweldge that there's a massive amount of music out there that doesn't fall under the umbrella of 'major label.'