Author Topic: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread  (Read 143133 times)

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Offline Elite

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1575 on: November 12, 2021, 01:58:43 PM »
Because 'spectacular', to me, describes something that's extraordinary, or overly dramatic, or 'special', for lack of a better word. I find Forsaken and Along for the Ride to be below-average DT songs, so 'spectacular' seems like a strange word to use to me as an adjective for those songs.

Why do I need to justify asking a question that wasn't even directed at you in the first place?
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Offline Stadler

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1576 on: November 12, 2021, 07:12:14 PM »
Not that it's saying much but Invisible Monster is way better than Forsaken or Along For the Ride imo.

No. 

For maybe the first time ever in a DT thread, Stadler is correct.  It is a great song.  But Forsaken and Along for the Ride are spectacular.

Yeah!  Exactly!  Wait.... what?    :) :) :)

Offline KevShmev

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1577 on: November 12, 2021, 07:47:01 PM »

Great song!   Even JP said in Guitar World magazine that it is one of the coolest songs on the album..  I think it will translate very well in a live setting, and I hope they play it.

JP hyping up one of their new songs...shocking.  :lol :lol

This is where I point out again that compliments by musicians about their new material almost always have to be taken with a grain of salt. You aren't gonna boost sales by saying, "Well, that new song isn't that great, but it's the best we had, so please buy it!"  :biggrin: :biggrin:

Offline v_clortho

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1578 on: November 12, 2021, 09:35:46 PM »
There's even a few bands and artists that I think not many others on here really give two shits about except us two.

Just curious. What artists are those?

Offline v_clortho

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1579 on: November 12, 2021, 09:51:30 PM »
I've finally caught up with this thread. Here are my thoughts. I know you've all been patiently waiting.

I love this cd. I wouldn't rank it up with I&W, but it is very good.

Andy Sneap is the best. I love the way this sounds. I love the way the Nevermore albums that Andy did sounded. If I were ever in a band I'd get Andy to mix it.

ATC is probably my favorite at the moment. View is really good as well and count me among the fans of IM.

I keep waking up with a different song in my head, so I really don't understand the people saying there aren't memorable melodies on this one.

All in all a great cd. Good year so far for bands I like. Iron Maiden, Dream Theater, Neal Morse  all put out really good albums. Good times!

Offline Glasser

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1580 on: November 12, 2021, 10:33:06 PM »
I've finally caught up with this thread. Here are my thoughts. I know you've all been patiently waiting.

I love this cd. I wouldn't rank it up with I&W, but it is very good.

Andy Sneap is the best. I love the way this sounds. I love the way the Nevermore albums that Andy did sounded. If I were ever in a band I'd get Andy to mix it.

ATC is probably my favorite at the moment. View is really good as well and count me among the fans of IM.

I keep waking up with a different song in my head, so I really don't understand the people saying there aren't memorable melodies on this one.

All in all a great cd. Good year so far for bands I like. Iron Maiden, Dream Theater, Neal Morse  all put out really good albums. Good times!

Well hello friend! Really nice post! While I basically put I&W in the DT hall of fame years ago, I think View is my favorite album since. Love every song! Cheers!!!!

Offline nobloodyname

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1581 on: November 12, 2021, 10:40:52 PM »
Because 'spectacular', to me, describes something that's extraordinary, or overly dramatic, or 'special', for lack of a better word. I find Forsaken and Along for the Ride to be below-average DT songs, so 'spectacular' seems like a strange word to use to me as an adjective for those songs.


Hard agree on this! Amazed anyone can consider those two rather uninteresting songs to be "spectacular". But hey, I like You Not Me. Now that's a spectacular tune ;)

To state the bleeding obvious, life would be truly dull if we all thought the same.

As for Invisible Monster, I hadn't heard it before listening to the entire album. I thought it was a standout on first listen and still very much enjoy it now. (Although I was disappointed when I realised it wasn't literally about a monster with googly eyes.)
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Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1582 on: November 13, 2021, 10:40:56 AM »
Not that it's saying much but Invisible Monster is way better than Forsaken or Along For the Ride imo.

No. 

For maybe the first time ever in a DT thread, Kotowboy is correct.  It is a great song.  But Forsaken and Along for the Ride are not as good.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1583 on: November 13, 2021, 10:44:05 AM »
Don't be silly.  I mean, it's a great song.  I agree with that part.  But I can't agree with it being better than one that is close to a top 10 DT song and another that, although not quite that high, is still pretty great.
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Offline LKap13

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1584 on: November 13, 2021, 10:53:36 AM »
IM is a skip for me every time. Someone else mentioned the album flows better without IM and I agree

Offline Kram

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1585 on: November 13, 2021, 10:56:59 AM »
IM is a skip for me every time. Someone else mentioned the album flows better without IM and I agree
How could it be a skip if this is your greatest album of all time? 

Offline The Letter M

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1586 on: November 13, 2021, 11:16:31 AM »
IM is a skip for me every time. Someone else mentioned the album flows better without IM and I agree
How could it be a skip if this is your greatest album of all time?

Yeah, what's up with that? If you alter the album in any way to your preference, then the album as it was released is not the greatest of all time because then it's just a compilation of your six favorite songs from the album.

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Offline LKap13

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1587 on: November 13, 2021, 12:44:58 PM »
Greatest album of all time doesn't mean every song has to be perfect. I'm sure even the consensus greatest album of all time has a dud. I don't know though I guess we could look into it

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1588 on: November 13, 2021, 12:51:33 PM »
Along For The Ride is ...great? 
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1589 on: November 13, 2021, 12:56:46 PM »
Greatest album of all time doesn't mean every song has to be perfect. I'm sure even the consensus greatest album of all time has a dud. I don't know though I guess we could look into it

So you're supposing the Greatest Album Of All Time™ can be greater than the sum of its parts? Then what about an album where *every* song is perfect, does that mean it's not the greatest? Greatest implies there can only be one, so how could an album with a non-perfect run of songs be better than any album with ALL perfect songs?  :P

Back to bring the thread back on topic - I keep coming back to AVFTTOTW every other day now, and I still really enjoy it. I've been listening to a lot of MM-era DT so its been interesting to hear how the band has developed since Mangini joined. There's definitely a sort of through-line that has developed, even including The Astonishing, which some might see as an anomaly given its nature as a concept album/rock opera and not really in-line with the traditional album-of-unrelated-songs that DT is mostly known for.

This group of five albums by the band feels like the inverse of what the previous five were - SDOIT and TOT were pretty great over-all, feeling fresh and inspired, with the latter having a clear direction in terms of how the band set off to write the album (a full-on metal-inspired work), then Octavarium came by and was a bit divisive but really was a hit with a portion of the fanbase, and then the next two have been seen as hit-or-miss. Going up through the Mangini albums, the first two have been seen as a bit hit-or-miss with some fans, then the divisive Astonishing album, and then finally two albums that have been pretty great over-all, with one having a clear direction (DOT having a focus on shorter, more concise songs). I'd say we're at a peak of the DT sine-wave now where we were at with SDOIT almost twenty years ago. Some might disagree with this assessment and that's fine, just something I thought of just now that seemed a bit intriguing to me.

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« Last Edit: November 13, 2021, 01:14:49 PM by The Letter M »
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Offline LKap13

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1590 on: November 13, 2021, 01:02:35 PM »
Greatest album of all time doesn't mean every song has to be perfect. I'm sure even the consensus greatest album of all time has a dud. I don't know though I guess we could look into it

So you're supposing the Greatest Album Of All Time™ can be greater than the sum of its parts? Then what about an album where *every* song is perfect, does that mean it's not the greatest? Greatest implies there can only be one, so how could an album with a non-perfect run of songs be better than any album with ALL perfect songs?  :P

Back to bring the thread back on topic - I keep coming back to AVFTTOTW every other day now, and I still really enjoy it. I've been listening to a lot of MM-era DT so its been interesting to hear how the band has developed since Mangini joined. There's definitely a sort of through-line that has developed, even including The Astonishing, which some might see as an anomaly given its nature as a concept album/rock opera and not really in-line with the traditional album-of-unrelated-songs that DT is mostly known for.

This group of five albums by the band feels like the inverse of what the previous five were - SDOIT and TOT were pretty great over-all, feeling fresh and inspired, with the latter having a clear direction in terms of how the band set off to write the album (a full-on metal-inspired work), then Octavarium came by and was a bit divisive but really was a hit with a portion of the fanbase, and then the next two have been seen as hit-or-miss. Going up through the Mangini albums, the first two have been seen as a bit hit-or-miss with some fans, then the divisive Astonishing album, and then finally two albums that have been pretty great over-all, with one having a clear direction (DOT having a focus on shorter, more concise songs). I'd say we're at a peak of the DT sine-wave now where we were at with SDOIT almost twenty years ago. Some might disagree with this assessment and that's fine, just something I thought of just now that seemed a bit intriguing to me.

-Marc.

-Marc.

-Marc.

What album is perfect? You're implying there's an album that is perfect. That's confusing

Offline KevShmev

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1591 on: November 13, 2021, 01:05:08 PM »
I could name 25 records off the top of my head that are perfect, several of which are by DT, so yeah, I am on board with those saying that your greatest album of all time having a skipper seems more than a bit strange. :P :lol

Offline LKap13

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1592 on: November 13, 2021, 01:05:55 PM »
Okay I surrender

Offline KevShmev

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1593 on: November 13, 2021, 01:06:14 PM »
Yes, yes, by all means, surrender to reason.  :coolio

Offline LKap13

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1594 on: November 13, 2021, 01:08:43 PM »
The texture, depth, instrumentation, melody, complexity of this album is incredible.

Offline The Letter M

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1595 on: November 13, 2021, 01:18:28 PM »
Yes, yes, by all means, surrender to reason.  :coolio

Bravo.  :lol

I could name 25 records off the top of my head that are perfect, several of which are by DT, so yeah, I am on board with those saying that your greatest album of all time having a skipper seems more than a bit strange. :P :lol

I agree, there are plenty of perfect records out there, but music is subjective, and you could never get 8 billion people to agree on the same album(s). Maybe 50 years ago when the music industry was much smaller, there were fewer musical acts, and the lines between genres were more defined, you could probably get a fair majority of music listeners to agree on a few albums that are "perfect", but since everyone's tastes are so different these days, you'd have to really put a lot of asterisks after declaring a singular album as "Perfect".

For example, you could poll everyone here asking which DT album(s) they consider perfect, and I guarantee most will say IAW and SFAM, but not everyone would agree. Does that make them not perfect? Does it have to be unanimous, or can is just be a majority opinion?

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Offline LKap13

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1596 on: November 13, 2021, 01:32:07 PM »
We've entered the realm of philosophy as we often do of which we have no knowledge or expertise and in the end nobody does other than to say it is subjective but things tend to be better than others though we still can't say definitively why or which

Offline LKap13

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1597 on: November 13, 2021, 01:32:31 PM »
 Edit-error

Offline Kram

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1598 on: November 13, 2021, 02:17:53 PM »
Remember, as Mike Portnoy says, there are no "bests" or "greatest" in music - only favorites.

Offline Architeuthis

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1599 on: November 13, 2021, 02:42:38 PM »


All in all a great cd. Good year so far for bands I like. Iron Maiden, Dream Theater, Neal Morse  all put out really good albums. Good times!
Heck yeah!  Three excellent albums released around the same time.   :tup
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Offline nobloodyname

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1600 on: November 13, 2021, 05:09:59 PM »
Along For The Ride is ...great?

Not quite. In fact, it's one of the worst songs DT ever recorded :biggrin:

(Hyperbole, maybe... but it really is awful. Ahhh... subjectivity! What would life be without it?)
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Offline 425

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1601 on: November 13, 2021, 05:22:56 PM »
Greatest album of all time doesn't mean every song has to be perfect. I'm sure even the consensus greatest album of all time has a dud. I don't know though I guess we could look into it

There are probably dozens of albums where I would never consider skipping a single track. For example, Images and Words.
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Offline Wim Kruithof

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1602 on: November 13, 2021, 11:44:41 PM »
I could name 25 records off the top of my head that are perfect, several of which are by DT...

I'm curious.

We've entered the realm of philosophy as we often do of which we have no knowledge or expertise and in the end nobody does other than to say it is subjective but things tend to be better than others though we still can't say definitively why or which

'Realm of philosophy' indeed. Well-said. I think the era of release also is a valuable element in ranking or appreciating records. For example, I really love Images & Words. But, I only became aware of it a few years back. That's one of the reasons I can't say it's better than Six Degrees or Train of Thought. But if I heard this album when I was riding my bike with Master of Puppets in my backpack, in those early days, it would might have overwhelmed me and still be amongst my favorites.

I became aware of it when there was so much more Dream Theater to enjoy. Three era's along and fifteen studioalbums in, there is plenty to compare it to. And still though, a View will probably end amongst my favorites. Because - to me - every track is so inspiring, fresh and beautiful written.
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Offline Elite

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1603 on: November 14, 2021, 04:12:12 AM »
I could name 25 records off the top of my head that are perfect, several of which are by DT, so yeah, I am on board with those saying that your greatest album of all time having a skipper seems more than a bit strange. :P :lol

Quoting you not as a direct reply to you, but because your post made me think - joining the discussion with some thoughts of my own.

Despite having heard hundreds of albums in my life, I have never heard a single 'perfect' album. Call this a case of semantics, or unwillingness to yield to stuff I enjoy, but to call something 'perfect' means that it's flawless, without error every single time you listen to it. That's an impossible standard, and I'm not the person to judge whether an album can actually live up to that standard. Call me a killjoy if you must, but in my view - as I'm sure I've pointed out in whatever random WildRanger thread - is that it's rather useless to describe value judgements to music (or art in general), because aesthetic judgment can not be separated from personal taste, which in turn is intrinsically subjective. Calling something 'perfect' as a means to describe what you feel about it (to you, it's a perfect album) is different from saying 'this is the best album of all time' or 'this is flawless', because such claims can't be made in any objective way. I can't make the claim that any album is 'perfect', because I know for a fact that this claim can't possibly be true except as a figment of my own imagination. Likewise, music I enjoy isn't inherently 'better' than music I don't enjoy.

That said, if you do want to make a claim that an album is 'perfect' (to you!), by all means you can, but don't expect others to feel the same way as well. However, if you do claim that an album (or a song, or a painting) is 'perfect' that would means there's no faults, nothing to dislike. Having a (part of a) song you'd rather skip or have changed would means it's actually not perfect at all. Use hyperbole with caution. 'Favourite' would be a better description.
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Offline emtee

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1604 on: November 14, 2021, 05:46:03 AM »
So far it's aging beautifully. In those rare instances when I have time to put the headphones on and immerse myself...this is when the album's brilliance shines. The sound on this is spectacular.

Offline bobzor

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1605 on: November 14, 2021, 06:18:06 AM »
I gotta say, this might be their best in a long time. Haven't been this excited for a new DT release since the s/t. We'll see if it will stand the test of time, because when Distance over Time was released, I also felt excitement. But that excitement died pretty quickly..

So far I'm digging the first 4 songs the most. The title track hasn't really grown on me just yet.

Offline Podaar

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1606 on: November 14, 2021, 06:27:26 AM »
So far it's aging beautifully. In those rare instances when I have time to put the headphones on and immerse myself...this is when the album's brilliance shines. The sound on this is spectacular.

I agree. Definitely a headphone/earbud album. I have a great sound system in my car, but it still doesn't sound nearly as cool as with earbuds.
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Offline 425

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1607 on: November 14, 2021, 07:04:43 AM »
Despite having heard hundreds of albums in my life, I have never heard a single 'perfect' album. Call this a case of semantics, or unwillingness to yield to stuff I enjoy, but to call something 'perfect' means that it's flawless, without error every single time you listen to it. That's an impossible standard, and I'm not the person to judge whether an album can actually live up to that standard.

"Perfect" is not a word that I usually use to describe music, but I think there's something wrong with using the word to mean something that can never be achieved. I think this is a broader issue with the way our culture uses the word "perfect"—it's often used to name some made-up state that is literally unachievable, which to me would make it a useless term. But we should have a word that names something like "suited completely for its purpose without drawbacks" or "making all good choices and no bad ones." I think this is achievable because I don't think that there's literally always one "perfect" choice for every scenario, but often an array of possible good choices.

On some grounds like that, I think an album can be "perfect," although I haven't thought much about what albums would be. I named Images and Words earlier as an album where I think every song is very good, but I don't know that the album is completely without drawbacks or bad choices—I'm kind of inclined to think Pull Me Under shouldn't cut off. There are other albums I'm inclined to think I could point to as having no drawbacks or bad choices, but interestingly, none of them are ones I like as well as Images and Words. (Here's one that pops to mind: Steven Wilson's The Raven That Refused to Sing.)

That's part of why I don't use "perfect" very often in talking about music. That an album involves only good elements and no bad ones is only part of what's involved in me liking it. It matters to the extent that I think it's strange to talk about an album with a song you full-on skip being your favorite ever, but if a song does one thing that I don't think is good, like Pull Me Under cutting off, that doesn't mean I don't enjoy the rest of it, and it doesn't mean the album can't be my favorite ever, so long as everything else is good enough in my eyes.
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Offline Elite

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1608 on: November 14, 2021, 07:26:19 AM »
Despite having heard hundreds of albums in my life, I have never heard a single 'perfect' album. Call this a case of semantics, or unwillingness to yield to stuff I enjoy, but to call something 'perfect' means that it's flawless, without error every single time you listen to it. That's an impossible standard, and I'm not the person to judge whether an album can actually live up to that standard.

"Perfect" is not a word that I usually use to describe music, but I think there's something wrong with using the word to mean something that can never be achieved. I think this is a broader issue with the way our culture uses the word "perfect"—it's often used to name some made-up state that is literally unachievable, which to me would make it a useless term. But we should have a word that names something like "suited completely for its purpose without drawbacks" or "making all good choices and no bad ones." I think this is achievable because I don't think that there's literally always one "perfect" choice for every scenario, but often an array of possible good choices.

That's actually how I feel about this as well, but you worded it better than I did.

On some grounds like that, I think an album can be "perfect," although I haven't thought much about what albums would be. I named Images and Words earlier as an album where I think every song is very good, but I don't know that the album is completely without drawbacks or bad choices—I'm kind of inclined to think Pull Me Under shouldn't cut off. There are other albums I'm inclined to think I could point to as having no drawbacks or bad choices, but interestingly, none of them are ones I like as well as Images and Words. (Here's one that pops to mind: Steven Wilson's The Raven That Refused to Sing.)

There are lots of albums out there where I like every song. The things is that with music, it's simply not possible to factually call something better than something else. Even answering questions like 'what is your favourite song/band/album?' is very difficult for me, because it's very dependent on when you're asking, or what I'm feeling like. Calling something your 'favourite' then, in essence, becomes rather meaningless, if you can have a new favourite thing the next day (or hour). When I did the Album top 50 thread(s) on DTF, I named Images & Words as my #1 album and that's probably what I'll still default to, despite not listening to it for more than once every year (if at all) these days. It is an easy answer however, because it's the album that sucked me into music first and foremost. Had that been something else entirely, my tastes might have been different, or might name a different album as my #1, but who cares, really?

That's part of why I don't use "perfect" very often in talking about music. That an album involves only good elements and no bad ones is only part of what's involved in me liking it. It matters to the extent that I think it's strange to talk about an album with a song you full-on skip being your favorite ever, but if a song does one thing that I don't think is good, like Pull Me Under cutting off, that doesn't mean I don't enjoy the rest of it, and it doesn't mean the album can't be my favorite ever, so long as everything else is good enough in my eyes.

I think you can still like or even love albums, even if there are moments on an album that you don't like. In fact, whenever I'm listening to albums, there's never a song I will skip. I just don't do it. It's part of what makes something enjoyable as well; if a song/album/band doesn't have any low points (for you!), then it can't have any highs either and everything would blend together in a one-dimensional sameness. Again, that's my idea of how this stuff works, don't take that as a fact.
Hey dude slow the fuck down so we can finish together at the same time.  :biggrin:
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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1609 on: November 14, 2021, 08:11:20 AM »
I enjoy listening to the instrumental cd. Doing this helped me appreciate the vocals more and how they're incorporated into the music.

Also, watching that interview with Peter helped a lot in understanding the role vocals play within the music, the components to composing vocal parts, and singing live.

What JLB said about finding the rhythm and how some melodies just naturally flow while others take time. Awaken The Master has amazing vocals and great melodies that do fit the song, in a way the groove of it reminds me of Steven Wilson's solo stuff on Raven and the vocals also have that groove that Steven Wilson's vocals have on those Groovy songs.

Overall this album is great. I am enjoying the theme of the songs and how it all climaxes to the main point of this album journey. Each song is about dealing with internal struggles and facing them, taking on the mountain and seeing the view from the top of the world.

Invisible Monster, while I think it's plodding, actually fits the record good. The only part I dont quite enjoy is the chorus, but that's it. The melody comes naturally and it's there, but that's it, it feels just there.
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