*Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread

[Kotowboy]

Easier for JR - he can press record and just play piano for an hour.

JM could do this, too (play bass, respectively). I'd buy it.

No but I imagine if the 4 musicians in the band got in a room and just jammed for an hour - it would probably be album worthy.

[Scottjf8]

I've listened to this album a bunch of times, and man, it really sucks.  The title track, Answering the Call, and Awaken the Master are the only passable songs for me... I think the other ones are SOOO boring, pendantic, lyrics are very blah, and the music doesn't sound like they all wrote and recorded it together.

[hunnus2000]

I've listened to this album a bunch of times, and man, it really sucks.  The title track, Answering the Call, and Awaken the Master are the only passable songs for me... I think the other ones are SOOO boring, pendantic, lyrics are very blah, and the music doesn't sound like they all wrote and recorded it together.

Duly noted............

[hefdaddy42]

I've listened to this album a bunch of times, and man, it really sucks.  The title track, Answering the Call, and Awaken the Master are the only passable songs for me... I think the other ones are SOOO boring, pendantic, lyrics are very blah, and the music doesn't sound like they all wrote and recorded it together.

OK.

[Architeuthis]

I've listened to this album a bunch of times, and man, it really sucks.  The title track, Answering the Call, and Awaken the Master are the only passable songs for me... I think the other ones are SOOO boring, pendantic, lyrics are very blah, and the music doesn't sound like they all wrote and recorded it together.

It can't suck too bad if you listened to it a bunch of times. 

[Scottjf8]

I've listened to this album a bunch of times, and man, it really sucks.  The title track, Answering the Call, and Awaken the Master are the only passable songs for me... I think the other ones are SOOO boring, pendantic, lyrics are very blah, and the music doesn't sound like they all wrote and recorded it together.

It can't suck too bad if you listened to it a bunch of times. 

Well I'm a fan of the band, and I really try to like all of their music...  I'm kinda hoping it'll grow on me.

[Glasser]

I've listened to this album a bunch of times, and man, it really sucks.  The title track, Answering the Call, and Awaken the Master are the only passable songs for me... I think the other ones are SOOO boring, pendantic, lyrics are very blah, and the music doesn't sound like they all wrote and recorded it together.

Sucks? That’s harsh. Not liking it is one thing but how can you say it sucks? This album doesn’t suck.

[Kotowboy]

HYPERBOLE.

Nobody can say " Ah I tried to like it - but it's not doing it for me "

Everything has to either RULE  or SUCK 

[BelichickFan]

I'm at the point where I should be tired of it and needing to take a break.  However I still find it excellent, interesting and compelling.  I hear parts of ADToE, DT and D/T but like this a lot better than all of the Mangini era.  I can't really rank overall as the sound and, really, the band is so different than the early albums.  My favorites have always been, in some order, I&W, Awake, Octavarium and I think this fits in with all of them.  I am confident this will end in my top group; which is extraordinary for the 15th album (with a couple of doubles and no 40 minute '80s era albums).  The quantity and quality that Dream Theater have given us is unprecedented for me.  I love Rush, Yes, etc, but they were far more up and down with their releases.  Well done to my favorite band, Dream Theater, for making one of their best albums so far into their careers.

[Glasser]

HYPERBOLE.

Nobody can say " Ah I tried to like it - but it's not doing it for me "

Everything has to either RULE  or SUCK 

I get it. But the word SUCKS and Dream Theater just sounds wrong. I just assume if you’re a member of this forum being more diplomatic and less brutal is expected.

[Glasser]

I'm at the point where I should be tired of it and needing to take a break.  However I still find it excellent, interesting and compelling.  I hear parts of ADToE, DT and D/T but like this a lot better than all of the Mangini era.  I can't really rank overall as the sound and, really, the band is so different than the early albums.  My favorites have always been, in some order, I&W, Awake, Octavarium and I think this fits in with all of them.  I am confident this will end in my top group; which is extraordinary for the 15th album (with a couple of doubles and no 40 minute '80s era albums).  The quantity and quality that Dream Theater have given us is unprecedented for me.  I love Rush, Yes, etc, but they were far more up and down with their releases.  Well done to my favorite band, Dream Theater, for making one of their best albums so far into their careers.

This. 

[Mr.Mister]

I'm at the point where I should be tired of it and needing to take a break.  However I still find it excellent, interesting and compelling.  I hear parts of ADToE, DT and D/T but like this a lot better than all of the Mangini era.  I can't really rank overall as the sound and, really, the band is so different than the early albums.  My favorites have always been, in some order, I&W, Awake, Octavarium and I think this fits in with all of them.  I am confident this will end in my top group; which is extraordinary for the 15th album (with a couple of doubles and no 40 minute '80s era albums).  The quantity and quality that Dream Theater have given us is unprecedented for me.  I love Rush, Yes, etc, but they were far more up and down with their releases.  Well done to my favorite band, Dream Theater, for making one of their best albums so far into their careers.

100% This is one I'm not skipping a single song. I've been enjoying a full run without wanting to skip to a certain part. I'm very curious where this will rank in a few years from now but I will not be surprised if it takes a top 3 spot. Sounds crazy but again not thinking of "ok skip next to get to the good stuff".

[Kotowboy]

Also - before anyone quotes me and says " yeah but you keep saying ACOS SUCKS  "

I don't actually think that but I act like it's the worst thing ever because people legitimately say that about The Astonishing - at the drop of a hat...

When albums like Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music exist.

And it just sounds stupid.

[Madman Shepherd]

I finally got my art book that I preordered from Century Media the first day.

FU Century Media

It looks beautiful though.

Documentary could have been longer but was pretty cool.

FU Century Media

[Kotowboy]

Century Media - putting the F U in F U N.

[wolfking]

I've listened to this album a bunch of times, and man, it really sucks.  The title track, Answering the Call, and Awaken the Master are the only passable songs for me... I think the other ones are SOOO boring, pendantic, lyrics are very blah, and the music doesn't sound like they all wrote and recorded it together.

Agree.  It's very disappointing.

[wolfking]

While I wouldn't use the term 'sucks', a fan of the band being so disappointed in one of their albums has the right to say however they feel about it IMO.  If he thinks it sucks, then to him, it sucks.

Personally, I don't like it, at all.

[svisser]

I finally got my art book that I preordered from Century Media the first day.

FU Century Media

It looks beautiful though.

Documentary could have been longer but was pretty cool.

FU Century Media

My stuff is still yet to be shipped. That date has changed like three times already. I think it is on the way now though.

[Glasser]

While I wouldn't use the term 'sucks', a fan of the band being so disappointed in one of their albums has the right to say however they feel about it IMO.  If he thinks it sucks, then to him, it sucks.

Personally, I don't like it, at all.

I didn't connect with The Astonishing st all but it far from sucks. That's what I mean. Everyone has their opinion and that's obviously fine. I understand hyperbole but what "sucks" about View? Call me Captain Literal man,  I'm fine with that.

*** Now go crank up some AC/DC. 

[wolfking]

Now The Astonishing, that does suck!

[darkshade]

DT is the only metal band besides Metallica that I keep up with, and while I dig a few songs on each album, I generally get bored with the new DT albums rather quick. The new album seems better than the previous MM albums, but I'm already over it. Haven't listened to AV in a few days and don't have any desire to listen again soon. Honestly, with the exception of BC&SL, it's been like that since Systematic Chaos. I enjoyed ADTOE the longest when it first came out, and still enjoy it though I don't listen to it often. It's more like a coda to the Portnoy era than it is the beginning of the Mangini era. I like a lot of bands and artists who evolve and DT was once one of those artists to me but they've stagnated by their own standards to my ears. Each album since 2011 to me is an industry standard DT sound. There are different presentations of it, yes, The Astonishing has some things that were different for the band, but stylistically the band hasn't expanded their sound or brand since Systematic Chaos, and I think TA was a flop. If they came back after with another attempt at something different, I bet it would have been better than DoT or AV, as these last two albums are safe albums by DT standards. Good, but safe. I enjoyed AV the most since ADTOE, but that is because I went in with low expectations (and the production values surely helped) but it does seem like they put a little elbow grease into the new album. I can see revisiting this one every once in a while, maybe. I'm just disappointed that the band is where they are at musically at this point. The 7 album run from IaW-Octavarium is unmatched by most bands and artists out there.

[jayvee3]

People can feel how they like, but I honestly don't think it's that hard to use more constructive language than "it sucks".

Again, people like what they like, and sure - that's their opinion (obviously, otherwise they wouldn't have stated it). And while its somewhere around the mid-tier for me - instantly better than the later MP era - being around here for a while, I could almost guarantee some of the posters that weren't going to like this album. Some genuinely don't like it, while others seem pleasantly surprised. But many that don't seem into it, seem like they just haven't been into DT in general for a while now, which is no drama - but it just seems obvious at this point. All good, plenty of cool music to go around

[Ben_Jamin]

I finally got my art book that I preordered from Century Media the first day.

FU Century Media

It looks beautiful though.

Documentary could have been longer but was pretty cool.

FU Century Media

I came to post that I got mine too.

It looks lovely. I am ripping the instrumentals right now. 

Not that bad of a wait for Century Media. 

[erwinrafael]

Octavarium is the first album of the band that I did not buy and to this day, I rarely have the urge to listen to the full album. The only songs I keep coming back to are The Root of All Evil, Panic Attack, and These Walls (this one I truly love). For me, it is not Dream Theater trying to expand their horizons but rather Dream Theater trying to be what they are not. If I want to hear DT trying to expand their horizons, that is SDOIT disc 1 for me.

People keep on harping on how DT was more adventurous from 1992 to 2005, but how much of their change in directions were them being directed by outside parties to do so? Awake was them pressured to match their IaW success while being asked to go towards the early 90s dark sound (which fortunately for me resulted to one of my fave albums). FII was them being pressured to go more pop. And when DT decided to play what they actually want to pay, they gave us SFAM which is a welcome return to classic DT.

The ADTOE - AVFTTOTW run may indeed offer less variation in terms of style (with the exception of The Astonishing) but I tend to look at it in view of what is happening to the band. ADTOE is them trying to recapture that classic DT sound after they went towards a very metal direction after transferring to Roadrunner. DT12, to my ears, is the band trying to escape from the crutch of virtuosity and wank that they have been in since Train of Thought, focusing on writing good songs first. After the interlude of TA which they passionately loved but a lot of the fandom vocally did not appreciate, Distance Over Time was them becoming more successful with what they tried to do in DT12. Then AVFTTOTW is them bringing back again the virtuosity. That is how I appreciate the Mangini years so far, viewing them in terms of the journey of the band.

In my own life, I rarely yearn for the good old days. That is just a recipe for extreme dissatisfaction. I appreciate life and the things I love in terms of NOW.

[jayvee3]

Octavarium is the first album of the band that I did not buy and to this day, I rarely have the urge to listen to the full album. The only songs I keep coming back to are The Root of All Evil, Panic Attack, and These Walls (this one I truly love). For me, it is not Dream Theater trying to expand their horizong but rather Dream Theater trying to be what they are not. If I want to hear DT trying to expand their horizons, that is SDOIT disc 1 for me.

People keep on harping on how DT was more adventurous from 1992 to 2005, but how much of their change in directions were them being directed by outside parties to do so? Awake was them pressured to match their IaW success while being asked to go towards the early 90s dark sound (which fortunately for me resulted to one of my fave albums). FII was them being pressured to go more pop. And when DT decided to play what they actually want to pay, they gave us SFAM which is a welcome return to classic DT.

The ADTOE - AVFTTOTW run may indeed offer less variation in terms of style (with the exception of The Astonishing) but I tend to look at it in view of what is happening to the band. ADTOE is them trying to recapture that classic DT sound after they went towards a very metal direction after transferring to Roadrunner. DT12, to my ears, is the band trying to escape from the crutch of virtuosity and wank that they have been in since Train of Thought, focusing on writing good songs first. After the interlude of TA which they passionately loved but a lot of the fandom vocally did not appreciate, Distance Over Time was them becoming more successful with what they tried to do in DT12. Then AVFTTOTW is them bringing back again the virtuosity. That is how I appreciate the Mangini years so far, viewing them in terms of the journey of the band.

In my own life, I rarely yearn for the good old days. That is just a recipe for extreme dissatisfaction. I appreciate life and the things I love in terms of NOW.

Great post. +1 for sure

[jammindude]

I have been a fanboy since Oct 1992, and I think Octavarium is Dream Theater at their absolute peak. It is not just their greatest ever album, but it is an encapsulation of everything that they represent in a single album. It is both the meat and the cheese. It is the trimmed song, and the soaring epic.

It is DT at perfection.

I’m still shocked that so many don’t hear it.

[Ben_Jamin]

Even as an instrumental Answering The Call is energetic and amazing, I really do hope they play this one live. Myung's bass and JR's Keyboards are really brought out in this instrumental. This also highlights how much the melodies of the lyrics impact the songs as well. It's a reason why I buy the instrumental bonus discs, to see how the melodies affect the overall song. This helps me also appreciate the vocal melodies and their incorporation into the composition of the song. Sometimes, the vocals enhance it and sometimes I prefer listening only to the music without the vocals.

[Ben_Jamin]

The ADTOE - AVFTTOTW run may indeed offer less variation in terms of style (with the exception of The Astonishing) but I tend to look at it in view of what is happening to the band. ADTOE is them trying to recapture that classic DT sound after they went towards a very metal direction after transferring to Roadrunner. DT12, to my ears, is the band trying to escape from the crutch of virtuosity and wank that they have been in since Train of Thought, focusing on writing good songs first. After the interlude of TA which they passionately loved but a lot of the fandom vocally did not appreciate, Distance Over Time was them becoming more successful with what they tried to do in DT12. Then AVFTTOTW is them bringing back again the virtuosity. That is how I appreciate the Mangini years so far, viewing them in terms of the journey of the band.

I agree with this a lot.

You could say that AVFTTOTW is a metaphor for that journey. And they are ready to also take on the next.

[lovethedrake]

I have been a fanboy since Oct 1992, and I think Octavarium is Dream Theater at their absolute peak. It is not just their greatest ever album, but it is an encapsulation of everything that they represent in a single album. It is both the meat and the cheese. It is the trimmed song, and the soaring epic.

It is DT at perfection.

I’m still shocked that so many don’t hear it.

I despised Octavarium when it came out… so much so that I actually thought my cd was broken because it sounded so bad.  I literally went back to the cd store to double check with the owner haha.  To me it represents Dream Theater at their least inspired,  a band that had lost its way and was trying to emulate other popular bands at the time.

The album has grown on me and I do listen to it a fair amount now but it’s still definitely a bottom tier Dream Theater album to me.   I like sacrificed sons and the title track but the rest of the album is problematic for me.   Although it has actually held up reasonably well over time so I do revisit it.

[lovethedrake]

Octavarium is the first album of the band that I did not buy and to this day, I rarely have the urge to listen to the full album. The only songs I keep coming back to are The Root of All Evil, Panic Attack, and These Walls (this one I truly love). For me, it is not Dream Theater trying to expand their horizong but rather Dream Theater trying to be what they are not. If I want to hear DT trying to expand their horizons, that is SDOIT disc 1 for me.

People keep on harping on how DT was more adventurous from 1992 to 2005, but how much of their change in directions were them being directed by outside parties to do so? Awake was them pressured to match their IaW success while being asked to go towards the early 90s dark sound (which fortunately for me resulted to one of my fave albums). FII was them being pressured to go more pop. And when DT decided to play what they actually want to pay, they gave us SFAM which is a welcome return to classic DT.

The ADTOE - AVFTTOTW run may indeed offer less variation in terms of style (with the exception of The Astonishing) but I tend to look at it in view of what is happening to the band. ADTOE is them trying to recapture that classic DT sound after they went towards a very metal direction after transferring to Roadrunner. DT12, to my ears, is the band trying to escape from the crutch of virtuosity and wank that they have been in since Train of Thought, focusing on writing good songs first. After the interlude of TA which they passionately loved but a lot of the fandom vocally did not appreciate, Distance Over Time was them becoming more successful with what they tried to do in DT12. Then AVFTTOTW is them bringing back again the virtuosity. That is how I appreciate the Mangini years so far, viewing them in terms of the journey of the band.

In my own life, I rarely yearn for the good old days. That is just a recipe for extreme dissatisfaction. I appreciate life and the things I love in terms of NOW.

I have a different take on it and I’ll probably get flack for it.  I love the band and really enjoy the new album. However, I think Dream Theater can make this album in their sleep.  There is no innovation or attempt to try and create anything relevant or interesting.  It’s just them doing what they know and doing it reasonably well.   

The solo breakdowns are incredibly lazy… gone are the days of instrumental musical passages that take you on a journey.

They are my favorite band so them making a “stock” Dream Theater album is still super enjoyable to me but It doesn’t sound like they had anything to say in this album creatively.  Either they are out of ideas or they are just going through the motions.  I still love the album though. 

 

[erwinrafael]

I think the instrumental passages do take us on a journey in this album, especially in the epic, although the guitar vs keys tradeoffs may have been overdone. There is a lot of innovativeness in the instrumentals of the title track. For example. I have not heard DT do a breakdown that is like what they did in the AVFTTOTW intro with the really headache-inducing pattern that Mangini and Myung did over the 23/17 guitar riff.

A lot of "innovations" I am hearing in this album is actually rhythmic. For example, the 7/8 chorus of Sleeping Giant that is played like 6/8. I don't think I have heard that before. The 5+5+7 base rhythm of The Alien. The 23/16 base of AVFTTOTW.

[Kyo]

I think Dream Theater can make this album in their sleep.  There is no innovation or attempt to try and create anything relevant or interesting.

It doesn’t sound like they had anything to say in this album creatively.  Either they are out of ideas or they are just going through the motions.

This is such garbage. I have spent so much time analyzing what's going on in the title track rhythmically and composition-wise and finding very interesting things, the idea that "there is no attempt to try and create anything relevant or interesting" can only come from someone who's missing all the detail. Just looking at the rhythms they used to shape large sections of The Alien and View, there is so much unusual and, yes, innovative stuff that I haven't heard from anyone so far. The use of long odd meters and the way they explore the various ways to phrase and subdivide them on the album is a real step up for them creatively. There's also stuff like the 7 phrased as 3+4 (rather than the usual 4+3) in the Sleeping Giant chorus which is also something that I've also never heard anyone use before.

It's OK that a lot of this goes over people's heads. I'm sure the band are aware. The main theme hidden in the weird rhythms of View's ending is one very obvious example that they are willing to record stuff in the full knowledge that most people won't understand what's really going on. But please don't be so silly and arrogant to deduct from your failure to grasp the more advanced stuff that the band isn't even trying to do anything interesting, doesn't have anything to say or that they're "just going through the motions".

[lovethedrake]

I think Dream Theater can make this album in their sleep.  There is no innovation or attempt to try and create anything relevant or interesting.

It doesn’t sound like they had anything to say in this album creatively.  Either they are out of ideas or they are just going through the motions.

This is such garbage. I have spent so much time analyzing what's going on in the title track rhythmically and composition-wise and finding very interesting things, the idea that "there is no attempt to try and create anything relevant or interesting" can only come from someone who's missing all the detail. Just looking at the rhythms they used to shape large sections of The Alien and View, there is so much unusual and, yes, innovative stuff that I haven't heard from anyone so far. The use of long odd meters and the way they explore the various ways to phrase and subdivide them on the album is a real step up for them creatively. There's also stuff like the 7 phrased as 3+4 (rather than the usual 4+3) in the Sleeping Giant chorus which is also something that I've also never heard anyone use before.

It's OK that a lot of this goes over people's heads. I'm sure the band are aware. The main theme hidden in the weird rhythms of View's ending is one very obvious example that they are willing to record stuff in the full knowledge that most people won't understand what's really going on. But please don't be so silly and arrogant to deduct from your failure to grasp the more advanced stuff that the band isn't even trying to do anything interesting, doesn't have anything to say or that they're "just going through the motions".

Well I won’t deny that I’m silly but I don’t think arrogance is the appropriate term here.  If my feeble brain can’t grasp the more advanced stuff then to me it sounds like more of the same.  So I can only deduct that they didnt push the envelope here at all.   Still love the album though and I especially love the title track. 

[Dedalus]

People can feel how they like, but I honestly don't think it's that hard to use more constructive language than "it sucks".

Again, people like what they like, and sure - that's their opinion (obviously, otherwise they wouldn't have stated it). And while its somewhere around the mid-tier for me - instantly better than the later MP era - being around here for a while, I could almost guarantee some of the posters that weren't going to like this album. Some genuinely don't like it, while others seem pleasantly surprised. But many that don't seem into it, seem like they just haven't been into DT in general for a while now, which is no drama - but it just seems obvious at this point. All good, plenty of cool music to go around

In fact, it's pretty obvious. Just compare the demands made here with the reception of other bands there at the "General Music Discussion" and you can see a certain good will not found here. 

But like you said, it's a normal process.

[lovethedrake]

People can feel how they like, but I honestly don't think it's that hard to use more constructive language than "it sucks".

Again, people like what they like, and sure - that's their opinion (obviously, otherwise they wouldn't have stated it). And while its somewhere around the mid-tier for me - instantly better than the later MP era - being around here for a while, I could almost guarantee some of the posters that weren't going to like this album. Some genuinely don't like it, while others seem pleasantly surprised. But many that don't seem into it, seem like they just haven't been into DT in general for a while now, which is no drama - but it just seems obvious at this point. All good, plenty of cool music to go around

In fact, it's pretty obvious. Just compare the demands made here with the reception of other bands there at the "General Music Discussion" and you can see a certain good will not found here. 

But like you said, it's a normal process.

For me there’s a difference of “not being into them” and a just a nagging feeling that they are capable of better.   I actually think every Mangini era album has gotten better with each release.  I would literally rank them in the the reverse order they came out and although it’s a little early to rank A View, I think it may continue the trend and be the best of the bunch.   However, I do feel like they are playing within a comfort zone that wasn’t there in the 90’s and that’s the nagging feeling.   I also feel like the instrumentals being one solo after the other with Petrucci and Rudess just going back and forth is getting stale.  The solos don’t seem as “written” as they once were and there’s a sense of improvisation on them.  That’s what gives me a little of the “going through the motions” vibe although I know that’s probably too harsh a statement.

I love DT and still do but I hope on The 16th release they do something more experimental.  If they don’t I will still enjoy it but will have that nagging feeling and I 100% agree that the standard this fanbase is holding them to, especially on their 15th release is absurd.  That’s the curse of them being so incredibly amazing in the 90’s.