*Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread

[Cool Chris]

I actually think Jordan does a great job on this record...and his over the top solos seems pretty non-existent on this record. 

I think he is great on this album, and in general like what he brings to the table. Yes, his solos here are... less bad... than on other albums, but they are still the weakest point in a band that should not have weak points.

[TAC]

Being the weakest point does not mean it's a weak point.

[Cool Chris]

Generally true. If you are the ugliest gal in a hotness competition, you still qualified to compete.

But in this case, his solos often detract more than they contribute to my enjoyment.

[KevShmev]

I get what you mean.  Fall into the Light might have been a top 20 DT song for me with a much better keyboard solo (instead of in that 25-35 range-ish), but I can't think of any JR solo on the new album where I think it is a detriment to the song.

[Cool Chris]

I am being a bit harsh. But since Train of Thought, Jordan's solos have been the only ongoing aspect of their music that I regularly feel less than pleased with. And while they do not often make a song worse, they equally rarely make a song better.

[Podaar]

Tastes...

I'd say that Jordan's solos are way better than JP's solos on this record, and I love JP's solos. I really thought Jordan crafted some very fitting solo spots, and terrific lead sounds.

[crystalstars17]

I really thought Jordan crafted some very fitting solo spots, and terrific lead sounds.

💯

I don't get the criticism either. I for one enjoy the keyboards most among all the instruments and I consider him the G.O.A.T.

But to each their own.

[KevShmev]

I am being a bit harsh. But since Train of Thought, Jordan's solos have been the only ongoing aspect of their music that I regularly feel less than pleased with. And while they do not often make a song worse, they equally rarely make a song better.

I would agree with this.  My thought with Jordan going into any album now is, I don't expect any great, memorable solos, but I just pray for very few that annoy me and make a song less great.  Fortunately, the days of him busting out solos where it feels like he is trying to bend as many notes as possible into submission are seemingly in the past.  His melodic and atmospheric work on A View... is really good.  Very Kevin Moore-ish more often than not (and Moore will likely always be my favorite DT keyboardist).

[Trav86]

I am being a bit harsh. But since Train of Thought, Jordan's solos have been the only ongoing aspect of their music that I regularly feel less than pleased with. And while they do not often make a song worse, they equally rarely make a song better.

I would agree with this.  My thought with Jordan going into any album now is, I don't expect any great, memorable solos, but I just pray for very few that annoy me and make a song less great.  Fortunately, the days of him busting out solos where it feels like he is trying to bend as many notes as possible into submission are seemingly in the past.  His melodic and atmospheric work on A View... is really good.  Very Kevin Moore-ish more often than not (and Moore will likely always be my favorite DT keyboardist).

This is how I feel. I was excited when Jordan said that his solos on this album were more “composed” and less improvised. Something the JP was pushing for. You can definitely tell the difference.

[Mladen]

The same discussion came up around the time ADTOE was released as well. JR talked about how JP pushed him to approach the solos less as an improvisation and more as a composition. The result is the solo in Lost not forgotten, which is fantastic. It's not like JR hasn't composed his solos in years. Not to mention his solos on The Astonishing.

[Kram]

I am being a bit harsh. But since Train of Thought, Jordan's solos have been the only ongoing aspect of their music that I regularly feel less than pleased with. And while they do not often make a song worse, they equally rarely make a song better.

I would agree with this.  My thought with Jordan going into any album now is, I don't expect any great, memorable solos, but I just pray for very few that annoy me and make a song less great.  Fortunately, the days of him busting out solos where it feels like he is trying to bend as many notes as possible into submission are seemingly in the past.  His melodic and atmospheric work on A View... is really good.  Very Kevin Moore-ish more often than not (and Moore will likely always be my favorite DT keyboardist).

This is how I feel. I was excited when Jordan said that his solos on this album were more “composed” and less improvised. Something the JP was pushing for. You can definitely tell the difference.

I agree with this.  A lot of his solos have been improvised and sound like he's just wanking for the sake of wanking.  Listen to Scenes and how amazing some of the solos and the unison's are on there.  They sound composed.  You can tell he and JP worked together on them.  I think what's sometimes frustrating with him is we all see how insanely talented this guy is - so we expect a little more out of his solos.

[EPIC Outro]

Simple as it is, one of my all time favorite JR solos is from Beneath the Surface.

[Shooters1221]

I am being a bit harsh. But since Train of Thought, Jordan's solos have been the only ongoing aspect of their music that I regularly feel less than pleased with. And while they do not often make a song worse, they equally rarely make a song better.

I would agree with this.  My thought with Jordan going into any album now is, I don't expect any great, memorable solos, but I just pray for very few that annoy me and make a song less great.  Fortunately, the days of him busting out solos where it feels like he is trying to bend as many notes as possible into submission are seemingly in the past.  His melodic and atmospheric work on A View... is really good.  Very Kevin Moore-ish more often than not (and Moore will likely always be my favorite DT keyboardist).

This is how I feel. I was excited when Jordan said that his solos on this album were more “composed” and less improvised. Something the JP was pushing for. You can definitely tell the difference.

I agree with this.  A lot of his solos have been improvised and sound like he's just wanking for the sake of wanking.  Listen to Scenes and how amazing some of the solos and the unison's are on there.  They sound composed.  You can tell he and JP worked together on them.  I think what's sometimes frustrating with him is we all see how insanely talented this guy is - so we expect a little more out of his solos.

I agree with some of his solos lacking the thought process or maybe even "feel" or whatever, but the unison's on all of the JR albums are simply amazing! I only wish they would show the unison's on the screen for live shows as I have went to many shows with people not familiar with them and they don't realize they are playing in unison/harmony and don't really understand the 'awsomeness' that is happening. JMO

[Cool Chris]

Simple as it is, one of my all time favorite JR solos is from Beneath the Surface.

In the DT Top 100 thread, I had Beneath the Surface as my #1 song, and in no small part due to Jordan's solo. As I said in that thread, when ADToE came out, I knew that they had songs like Outcry and Breaking All Illusions in them. I did not know they had a song like Beneath the Surface in them.

[Madman Shepherd]

Simple as it is, one of my all time favorite JR solos is from Beneath the Surface.

In the DT Top 100 thread, I had Beneath the Surface as my #1 song, and in no small part due to Jordan's solo. As I said in that thread, when ADToE came out, I knew that they had songs like Outcry and Breaking All Illusions in them. I did not know they had a song like Beneath the Surface in them.

That solo is amazing. Gotta say I'm partial to the Along for the Ride solo too. Part of me wonders if  I really do like it or or if I just love the beneath the surface solo so much and it's the same tone that it makes me think I like it.

Either way, everything about Beneath the Surface is amazing...other than the fact that I never saw it live (damn rotating setlist falling on the wrong day)

[DoctorAction]

I adore Beneath The Surface. Another insane solo of his is the Octavarium one about 12 minutes in. Shit, the intro is pretty much all him too.

I agree he can be shred wallpaper, but the Jordan highs are really high.

[TheCountOfNYC]

When Jordan prioritizes melodic structure, his solos can be truly special. Octavarium, Beneath the Surface, Blind Faith, Along For the Ride, every single note he played on Scenes From a Memory, all of those solos are absolutely incredible. The guy clearly has the writing chops for it as his work in the band outside of his solos is the best keyboard work I’ve ever heard, I just wish he went back to combining that melodic sensibility with his insane chops again to craft some brilliant solos.

[Melphina]

I listened to this album once when it came out. Put it down, never thought about it again, nothing stayed with me.

Revisited some older DT the last few days and got a wild hair up my butt to hear this album again. The production is wonderful. Best sounding Mangini album for sure. The drums alone sound excellent.  Jordan and Mangini are the stars of this album by the way and they run with it. I love their playing on this one.

Lyrically and vocally I'm still on the fence. Over the years I've really come to appreciate what Portnoy brought to the band in all facets of songwriting and live shows. This album left me a bit cold with the vocals outside of a few moments where the vocal rhythms are really cool and fresh (I think the third or fourth song is what I'm thinking of but I'll need to double check). I don't like the processing on James's voice but it doesn't sound nearly as intense as on DOT.

I've only heard the album twice now. It demands several more because there is some truly bizarre, wild playing on some of these songs. The title track, I'm not sure what to think of that either. Some of the super long songs in their later years have not left much of an impression on me like Illumination Theory, but I hear so much cool music in this one that maybe it will age better.

And to hear they got a Grammy surprises me. Perhaps I'm just not a big fan of the band anymore and that's okay, since it took me this long just to get to a second listen. Perhaps DT has become more of an occasional snack in my listening diet rather than the full course but boy this is a tasty one. I really like The Astonishing but these last 2 albums really sound inspired which has been something missing from the band for a long time and not just once Portnoy left imo.

I no longer buy CDs so if this is on vinyl I'd consider buying it. I like the artwork too.

[a51502112]

After the last few albums, I had given up on DT. I decided to listen to this new one yesterday, and holy shit, it's fantastic.
I like everything about it, but the star of the show is the sound/mixing of the album. Their best in a long time.

[TAC]

After the last few albums, I had given up on DT. I decided to listen to this new one yesterday, and holy shit, it's fantastic.
I like everything about it, but the star of the show is the sound/mixing of the album. Their best in a long time.

It's a great Dream Theater album. Great!

[faizoff]

Can't believe it took me over 6 months to finally watch the making of the album documentary on the blu-ray. The vibe with the guys was just so fun to see and by the end I was wishing it was a lot longer.

I'm glad JP talked about the sound because he's not crazy it truly is the best sounding album of DT and the bluray sounds fat and thick with a nice pair of headphones. It's such a pleasure to listen to.

[JiM-Xtreme]

Edit: Woops, wrong thread.

[Wim Kruithof]

I can follow one is not into Dream Theater at all, because it is not a regular taste. But I find it hard to imagine that someone was considered a fan back in the days, but that the ‘new’ Dream Theater is not their cup of tea anymore. Of course a taste can change, but Dream Theater is - to me - 15 albums in, still without a doubt familair to their first albums.

Although they seem to evoke such a wide spectrum, they somehow stay the same. A View has Awake painted all over it.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I listened to this album once when it came out. Put it down, never thought about it again, nothing stayed with me.

Revisited some older DT the last few days and got a wild hair up my butt to hear this album again. The production is wonderful. Best sounding Mangini album for sure. The drums alone sound excellent.  Jordan and Mangini are the stars of this album by the way and they run with it. I love their playing on this one.

Lyrically and vocally I'm still on the fence. Over the years I've really come to appreciate what Portnoy brought to the band in all facets of songwriting and live shows. This album left me a bit cold with the vocals outside of a few moments where the vocal rhythms are really cool and fresh (I think the third or fourth song is what I'm thinking of but I'll need to double check). I don't like the processing on James's voice but it doesn't sound nearly as intense as on DOT.

I've only heard the album twice now. It demands several more because there is some truly bizarre, wild playing on some of these songs. The title track, I'm not sure what to think of that either. Some of the super long songs in their later years have not left much of an impression on me like Illumination Theory, but I hear so much cool music in this one that maybe it will age better.

And to hear they got a Grammy surprises me. Perhaps I'm just not a big fan of the band anymore and that's okay, since it took me this long just to get to a second listen. Perhaps DT has become more of an occasional snack in my listening diet rather than the full course but boy this is a tasty one. I really like The Astonishing but these last 2 albums really sound inspired which has been something missing from the band for a long time and not just once Portnoy left imo.

I no longer buy CDs so if this is on vinyl I'd consider buying it. I like the artwork too.

What did MP bring to the song writing process that is now missing?

[KevShmev]

What did MP bring to the song writing process that is now missing?

I know Neal Morse has said that Portnoy's best/main contribution to songwriting is arranging, how he can take everything everyone has written and piece it together just right, but Neal was already great at that before he started working with Mike, and DT has done just fine in that department on the last five albums.  It doesn't feel like their songwriting has skipped a beat since his departure.  One could certainly argue that he is missed in other areas, like drumming or in the live shows.

[425]

I am far from knowledgeable about the technical intricacies of songwriting, but I really think the songwriting has at least a different feel in the post-MP era. There are moments where I get a feeling like "I don't think they would have done it this way if MP was still in the band." I don't have an opinion on whether it's gotten better or worse, although there are definitely aspects that are not to my preference (namely, the six year period during which they almost exclusively wrote shorter songs).

[Cool Chris]

It seems like unnecessary repetition has dropped off significantly since his departure.

[Stadler]

I can follow one is not into Dream Theater at all, because it is not a regular taste. But I find it hard to imagine that someone was considered a fan back in the days, but that the ‘new’ Dream Theater is not their cup of tea anymore. Of course a taste can change, but Dream Theater is - to me - 15 albums in, still without a doubt familair to their first albums.

Although they seem to evoke such a wide spectrum, they somehow stay the same. A View has Awake painted all over it.

I dunno; tastes and all that.  I DO see a difference.  I'm not sure I can fully articulate what it is, and it's not like I don't like the Mark II (or is it Mark V?) but there ARE differences in feel.  I don't think it's fair to assume that because Portnoy didn't necessarily come up with the notes and melodies (and I think at least a couple times, he did; Scotty will know) arranging IS a big thing (ask Black Sabbath).  And even if not, I'm a fan of the idea of the "clubhouse"; just being present in the room, just being part of the dynamic can influence how material comes out.  I know I am in the minority, and I don't want to relitigate it here, but I find the interplay between the drums and the rest of the band to be different and not better.  Not necessarily worse (though I found it distracting on the new CD; it wasn't, thankfully, like that live) but different.   If that's part of your bag, then I can see not being into the new stuff.  And, of course, vice versa.  It's not a contest; music is about emotion; it either moves you or it doesn't and no one else on the planet has anything at all to say about that.

[Dream Team]

It seems like unnecessary repetition has dropped off significantly since his departure.

Yup

[hunnus2000]

It seems like unnecessary repetition has dropped off significantly since his departure.

I'm not sure what you mean by "unnecessary repetition" but if you're suggesting that their compositions are more streamlined then I agree.

[WilliamMunny]

It seems like unnecessary repetition has dropped off significantly since his departure.

This was my first thought. Some of the arrangements (on SC and BC&SL in particular) got a bit bloated, especially with the multi-part 'trade-off' solos. How much of this can be attributed to MP is anyone's guess, but the correlation exists nonetheless.

Either way, I give JP and Co. a lot of credit, the quality and consistency has remained quite high over the years.

[Adami]

I can follow one is not into Dream Theater at all, because it is not a regular taste. But I find it hard to imagine that someone was considered a fan back in the days, but that the ‘new’ Dream Theater is not their cup of tea anymore. Of course a taste can change, but Dream Theater is - to me - 15 albums in, still without a doubt familair to their first albums.

Although they seem to evoke such a wide spectrum, they somehow stay the same. A View has Awake painted all over it.

We all hear things differently. I can appreciate and even like certain parts of new DT, but I can't really get into it. Like Stads, I can't put my finger on EXACTLY what is different, and even if I could, the terms would be broad enough that someone would point out how they're all really the same anyway. Awake and View both have chug, and dark keyboard stuff, but that doesn't make them sound similar at all in my ears. I also don't want DT to sound like old DT. I want them to do their thing. I am glad they're doing their thing. It's just that their thing for last few albums hasn't been for me.

[goo-goo]

I can't put my finger on EXACTLY what is different, and even if I could, the terms would be broad enough that someone would point out how they're all really the same anyway.

Mine has been the vocal melodies. Some of them are phenomenal (At Wit's End) and a lot of them, specially from the last album sound not well constructed, or sound forced, or sound like they could use a little more development. I noted this in this last album. Production has been a hit or miss but they are fixing that and DoT and A Vew sound beautiful. I wish they could use a producer at least for the vocals so they can develop and construct more memorable melodies.

Aside that, even though my fandom for DT has decreased significantly, I can still go back to ANY album and the love for this band comes back.

[Dream Team]

Not to mention at this point JLB is pretty limited vocally. It's bound to be noticeable.

[Kram]

I can follow one is not into Dream Theater at all, because it is not a regular taste. But I find it hard to imagine that someone was considered a fan back in the days, but that the ‘new’ Dream Theater is not their cup of tea anymore. Of course a taste can change, but Dream Theater is - to me - 15 albums in, still without a doubt familair to their first albums.

Although they seem to evoke such a wide spectrum, they somehow stay the same. A View has Awake painted all over it.

We all hear things differently. I can appreciate and even like certain parts of new DT, but I can't really get into it. Like Stads, I can't put my finger on EXACTLY what is different, and even if I could, the terms would be broad enough that someone would point out how they're all really the same anyway. Awake and View both have chug, and dark keyboard stuff, but that doesn't make them sound similar at all in my ears. I also don't want DT to sound like old DT. I want them to do their thing. I am glad they're doing their thing. It's just that their thing for last few albums hasn't been for me.

I know what you and Stadler are saying, about something being different, that is hard to put a finger on exactly just what that is.  But I would point out I was kind of feeling the same way with SC and BC&SL.  So I don't think we can say this is simply the absence of Portnoy.  Again, can't quite put my finger on what it is.