*Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread

[TAC]

So I read this brutal review of the album yesterday..
https://www.metalreviews.com/reviews/album/10724

It was easy to be a fan of Dream Theater's 2019 album Distance Over Time. Coming off the back of disastrous experiment The Astonishing, having an album from the prog legends that actually cut out flab and focused a little more on songwriting was a huge improvement, as was the lack of lengthy songs. Well, good times don't last; A View From the Top of the World, the band's fifteenth full-length, isn't anywhere near as bad as The Astonishing but it does rebalance the formula back towards prog pomp, showing off musicianship over songwriting in a series of songs the shortest of which is over six minutes, with no less than three out of seven tracks here over nine minutes and another twenty-minute monster to finish the album.

As you'd expect, this harms the memorability of A View... and even makes it something of a slog on initial listens, not helped by the chuggy tone to Petrucci's riffing that lasts throughout and is the one stain on an otherwise flawless production (handled as usual by Petrucci with mastering done by Andy Sneap) that even manages to show off Myung's basslines for once. It's a shame because the band are clearly feeling confident and are at their heaviest in years, kicking off the album with the nine-minute The Alien packed full of instrumental trade-offs and familiar Theater-esque melodies and leads. Long-term fans will be in familiar territory, the opposite of adventurous, and it will depend a lot on the listener as to whether this is solid Dream Theater, or Dream Theater sounding generic and recycling their own material. Hard to know for sure, even as a fan!

What's undeniable are, as you'd expect, the usual strengths of the band are shining brightly. The musicianship is out of this world, for example, solos confidently traded throughout in the expected instrumental sections and always played to perfection. Mike Mangini has taken a little while to fill the shoes left by Mike Portnoy, but A View... shows his best performance with the band to date, making each song worth listening to for his drumming alone. LaBrie receives a lot of flak but his performance here is perfectly judged, never straining at the notes and sounding much less processed than on Distance Over Time. And although the songwriting can be Theater-by-numbers, particularly on the downright unimpressive second single Invisible Monster, there are enough bright moments here and there to tip the balance towards recommending the album overall.

Sleeping Giant is definitely a highlight, for instance, progging out tastefully without going overboard (even with some more orchestral-style keyboards and honky-tonk piano from Rudess) and a vocal melody that helps make for LaBrie's best performance on the album. Transcending Time has moments that lean far too much towards Rush worship but is a solid enough song regardless, and although Awaken the Master is the first piece that Petrucci has written on eight-string guitars, it doesn't devolve into the kind of djenty mess that might have happened in the Portnoy era - although neither does it do anything especially impressive, either! The consistent fault here is that the songs are too samey and similar, particularly in the verses, with not enough happening to make moments stand out or be memorable until you've listened to the album many times.

And the twenty-minute closing title track tries but can't really escape this, opening with grandiose synths and building into a meandering chuggy stomper that moves from lighter, ballad-esque moments to proggy instrumental jams to vocal-led emotion through widdly guitar and keyboard leads - it feels like a longer version of the album's formula. As far as longer pieces from the bands go it doesn't approach the classic A Change of Seasons; hell, Octavarium, Illumination Theory, even The Count of Tuscany is much better and more memorable - maybe this just needs a little longer to sink its claws in but the band have definitely done much better. It feels like something from a Dream Theater album ten or even twenty years ago, the band ageing but not seeming able to bring their music with them. And overall it sums this up, very much a stereotypical Dream Theater album, full of wanky instrumental moments and more light than heat. Said Rush-isms on Transcending Time are the most out-there experiments, which is practically jawdropping given how much past Dream Theater albums would try and ape the likes of Muse or Metallica. Instead of constantly trying to keep up with young peers, the band have settled into their rut and seem content to be making music for themselves, and A View From the Top of the World is accordingly Dream Theater at their most obnoxious to the core. Monoliths of their genre, making music that is assuredly difficult to play but even harder to love.

Ouch!

[KevShmev]

That reviewer made some good points, but he made some stupid ones as well.

To wit:

The consistent fault here is that the songs are too samey and similar, particularly in the verses, with not enough happening to make moments stand out or be memorable until you've listened to the album many times.

So basically, he wants an instant gratification record instead of one that grows on you.  Sounds like an impatient music listener.

Instead of constantly trying to keep up with young peers, the band have settled into their rut and seem content to be making music for themselves...

Er, can someone tell that nimrod that a true artist is supposed to make music for themselves?  The minute you start making music for the fans and not at all for yourself, you have crossed the line into being an entertainer and are no longer a real artist.

[darkshade]

The outro to the epic title track is one of the worst parts of the album. Not because it's something different for an ending to an epic, that's fine, but what they actually play, to me, just sounds like something that could have used some work, the resolutions don't sound right to me. There's some chords JP plays that don't sound like they match together well. But that's just my opinion.

[DTwwbwMP]

Gotta be honest, AVFTTOTW has NOT held up for me as much as I liked it when it first came out.

[TAC]

Gotta be honest, AVFTTOTW has NOT held up for me as much as I liked it when it first came out.

The song, album, or both?

[MrMike]

That reviewer made some good points, but he made some stupid ones as well.

The consistent fault here is that the songs are too samey and similar, particularly in the verses, with not enough happening to make moments stand out or be memorable until you've listened to the album many times.

So basically, he wants an instant gratification record instead of one that grows on you.  Sounds like an impatient music listener.

Instead of constantly trying to keep up with young peers, the band have settled into their rut and seem content to be making music for themselves...

Er, can someone tell that nimrod that a true artist is supposed to make music for themselves?  The minute you start making music for the fans and not at all for yourself, you have crossed the line into being an entertainer and are no longer a real artist.

Those remarks stood out to me as well.  Whining about there being long songs on a DT album kinda throws his credibility out the window from the start.  And then seeming to miss the days when the band more blatantly borrowed from other artists says a lot too.  Basically his problem is that DT didn't try hard enough to NOT sound like DT, a band who 15 albums into a career are what they are.

[wolfking]

Just to be clear, I am not a reviewer for metalreviews.com.

[TAC]

Wolf, Goat....what's the difference?

[Wim Kruithof]

He seems to judge ‘this could be on an album 20 years ago’ and ‘DT to its core’ as if that’s bad, but to me that is what makes DT so special. All their albums (although one can argue about the Astonishing) sounds unmistakingly like Dream Theater. Their spectrum is so huge and grandious that they move between albums - even between songs - in the wide prog-spectrum, where they wave the flag.

And although songs reminds me of other albums (both Answering the Call solo and Awaken the Master feel so ‘Awake-like’), it is never Dream Theater by numbers. On this album not one track is, for me.

Funny he also mentioned that he immediately loved Distance Over Time and got a tough one, loving a View. To me it is the opposite. I needed many listens for DOT to really love it and digested it over and over. But a View blew me away since I first heared the Answering the Call-riff…

[erciccio]

So I read this brutal review of the album yesterday..
https://www.metalreviews.com/reviews/album/10724

It was easy to be a fan of Dream Theater's 2019 album Distance Over Time. Coming off the back of disastrous experiment The Astonishing, having an album from the prog legends that actually cut out flab and focused a little more on songwriting was a huge improvement, as was the lack of lengthy songs. Well, good times don't last; A View From the Top of the World, the band's fifteenth full-length, isn't anywhere near as bad as The Astonishing but it does rebalance the formula back towards prog pomp, showing off musicianship over songwriting in a series of songs the shortest of which is over six minutes, with no less than three out of seven tracks here over nine minutes and another twenty-minute monster to finish the album.

As you'd expect, this harms the memorability of A View... and even makes it something of a slog on initial listens, not helped by the chuggy tone to Petrucci's riffing that lasts throughout and is the one stain on an otherwise flawless production (handled as usual by Petrucci with mastering done by Andy Sneap) that even manages to show off Myung's basslines for once. It's a shame because the band are clearly feeling confident and are at their heaviest in years, kicking off the album with the nine-minute The Alien packed full of instrumental trade-offs and familiar Theater-esque melodies and leads. Long-term fans will be in familiar territory, the opposite of adventurous, and it will depend a lot on the listener as to whether this is solid Dream Theater, or Dream Theater sounding generic and recycling their own material. Hard to know for sure, even as a fan!

What's undeniable are, as you'd expect, the usual strengths of the band are shining brightly. The musicianship is out of this world, for example, solos confidently traded throughout in the expected instrumental sections and always played to perfection. Mike Mangini has taken a little while to fill the shoes left by Mike Portnoy, but A View... shows his best performance with the band to date, making each song worth listening to for his drumming alone. LaBrie receives a lot of flak but his performance here is perfectly judged, never straining at the notes and sounding much less processed than on Distance Over Time. And although the songwriting can be Theater-by-numbers, particularly on the downright unimpressive second single Invisible Monster, there are enough bright moments here and there to tip the balance towards recommending the album overall.

Sleeping Giant is definitely a highlight, for instance, progging out tastefully without going overboard (even with some more orchestral-style keyboards and honky-tonk piano from Rudess) and a vocal melody that helps make for LaBrie's best performance on the album. Transcending Time has moments that lean far too much towards Rush worship but is a solid enough song regardless, and although Awaken the Master is the first piece that Petrucci has written on eight-string guitars, it doesn't devolve into the kind of djenty mess that might have happened in the Portnoy era - although neither does it do anything especially impressive, either! The consistent fault here is that the songs are too samey and similar, particularly in the verses, with not enough happening to make moments stand out or be memorable until you've listened to the album many times.

And the twenty-minute closing title track tries but can't really escape this, opening with grandiose synths and building into a meandering chuggy stomper that moves from lighter, ballad-esque moments to proggy instrumental jams to vocal-led emotion through widdly guitar and keyboard leads - it feels like a longer version of the album's formula. As far as longer pieces from the bands go it doesn't approach the classic A Change of Seasons; hell, Octavarium, Illumination Theory, even The Count of Tuscany is much better and more memorable - maybe this just needs a little longer to sink its claws in but the band have definitely done much better. It feels like something from a Dream Theater album ten or even twenty years ago, the band ageing but not seeming able to bring their music with them. And overall it sums this up, very much a stereotypical Dream Theater album, full of wanky instrumental moments and more light than heat. Said Rush-isms on Transcending Time are the most out-there experiments, which is practically jawdropping given how much past Dream Theater albums would try and ape the likes of Muse or Metallica. Instead of constantly trying to keep up with young peers, the band have settled into their rut and seem content to be making music for themselves, and A View From the Top of the World is accordingly Dream Theater at their most obnoxious to the core. Monoliths of their genre, making music that is assuredly difficult to play but even harder to love.

Ouch!

Well, this sums up pretty well how I feel about this album.

I just don't agree with his view on Trascending Time (I really don't like it) and on his final remarks on DT making music for themselves (that would not be a bad thing, anyhow..)

It's not certainly not a "bad" album from a technical standpoint (and the reviewer clearly appreciates many aspects), there are certainly great moments (SG mainly) but overall it's just...how to say it...boring?

Please note that overall the reviewer recommends the album..."there are enough bright moments here and there to tip the balance towards recommending the album overall"..

..and I am happy to know that I'm not the only one who thinks that JP's chuggas are a huge flaw..

[Elite]

Honestly, aside from some of the harsher sentences in there, I actually think that’s a fair review.

[cramx3]

That reviewer made some good points, but he made some stupid ones as well.

To wit:

The consistent fault here is that the songs are too samey and similar, particularly in the verses, with not enough happening to make moments stand out or be memorable until you've listened to the album many times.

So basically, he wants an instant gratification record instead of one that grows on you.  Sounds like an impatient music listener.

That quote is actually exactly why I think this album isn't top DT for me.  The album just kind of blends together and there's not enough vocal melodies to separate them easily.  Of course if you've listened enough like I have, you do notice the differences, but I think this is a fair point personally as even with many listens, this issue is still my main problem with the album.

[KevShmev]

..and I am happy to know that I'm not the only one who thinks that JP's chuggas are a huge flaw..

Ya know, that was a big problem for me at first, as it seemed like nearly every song had that going on in the verses, but I do not even notice it anymore.  Maybe I have just gotten used to it and I like almost all of the songs enough now to where it is not an issue anymore.  Hard to say.  But I get why it could still be a hang-up for some.

[TAC]

The album did take a couple of listens to parse things out, but I feel like that's a strength of the album. If anyone thinks these songs sound the same, they're obviously not listening.

What is a JP Chugga anyway?

[KevShmev]

That reviewer made some good points, but he made some stupid ones as well.

The consistent fault here is that the songs are too samey and similar, particularly in the verses, with not enough happening to make moments stand out or be memorable until you've listened to the album many times.

So basically, he wants an instant gratification record instead of one that grows on you.  Sounds like an impatient music listener.

Instead of constantly trying to keep up with young peers, the band have settled into their rut and seem content to be making music for themselves...

Er, can someone tell that nimrod that a true artist is supposed to make music for themselves?  The minute you start making music for the fans and not at all for yourself, you have crossed the line into being an entertainer and are no longer a real artist.

Those remarks stood out to me as well.  Whining about there being long songs on a DT album kinda throws his credibility out the window from the start.  And then seeming to miss the days when the band more blatantly borrowed from other artists says a lot too.  Basically his problem is that DT didn't try hard enough to NOT sound like DT, a band who 15 albums into a career are what they are.

I am curious, too, whose these younger peers are that DT is supposed to keep up with.  Assuming he is talking about this brand of prog metal, Haken? Pfft, DT's last two albums kick the shit out of Haken's last two albums.  Besides, as much as the internet, and some us at times , try to make music out to be a contest, it's not.  The band should be making whatever music they want for themselves, not for the fans or to try to keep up with younger peers.  Do I think that DT went a little safe on this record?  Yeah, but it is still a good record.  This goes back to my POV a while back that not every album has to reinvent the wheel or be the greatest thing ever. Sometimes, a good album is just that: a good album.

[KevShmev]

That reviewer made some good points, but he made some stupid ones as well.

To wit:

The consistent fault here is that the songs are too samey and similar, particularly in the verses, with not enough happening to make moments stand out or be memorable until you've listened to the album many times.

So basically, he wants an instant gratification record instead of one that grows on you.  Sounds like an impatient music listener.

That quote is actually exactly why I think this album isn't top DT for me.  The album just kind of blends together and there's not enough vocal melodies to separate them easily.  Of course if you've listened enough like I have, you do notice the differences, but I think this is a fair point personally as even with many listens, this issue is still my main problem with the album.

Okay, but to expand on the post I just made quoting another poster, it is that big of a deal if it is not "top DT"?  If the album is merely good, is that a bad thing?   Nothing wrong a good album.  I know the expectations are that artists always have to top or equal themselves, but I think for a 15th studio album, this is a very nice piece of work.  Not one of their best, no. Not by any stretch of the imagination, but it's a good record, worthy of the Dream Theater name.  IMO.

[TAC]

There's plenty of bands that play some pretty fast and complex stuff that grew up on Dream Theater.

[Ben_Jamin]

I see what target audience he is writing for. Based on that, it's not a bad review. He does recommend the album.

I don't agree with him at all, but that reads like it's meant for those fans that are not hardcore DT fans, but do consider them the "kings of prog".  Almost as it he's speaking to the Prog Elitists who know all of prog and hold DT up on this high pedestal of worship, and when their idols stray from their sermons, the worshippers become upset.  I feel the reviewer is showing what kind of fan he is of DT's music. I guess likes DTs "adventurous" side.

He also says "the band seems content to make music for themselves" as if that's a bad thing. I'd like to read his review for Puzzle, because that is an album that a musician has made for themselves. 

With some things in life, you won't understand right off the bat in a day. Things take time to fully grasp and when they do, it's beautiful. Music is one of these things.


And I find it hilarious how a lot of people are saying how Sleeping Giant is their best and most DT-esque of the new songs. But i just can't get into it like others seem too. I think it's the Key the song is in and the rhythm/groove of the song. It has the same effect as Lost Not Forgotten and Beyond This Life for me. I still enjoy those songs from time to time, but won't actively seek them out to casually listen to.

[TAC]

Sleeping Giant is great, and Lost Not Forgotten is even greater!

[Ben_Jamin]

Sleeping Giant is great, and Lost Not Forgotten is even greater!

They are great songs. But it's the key itself I can't get into. That key works well for Lost Not Forgotten as it fits the subject matter of the lyrics. Might be the production of both songs too, as Sleeping Giant does feel a bit closed in, and I am sure I will enjoy it life if played.

[cramx3]

That reviewer made some good points, but he made some stupid ones as well.

To wit:

The consistent fault here is that the songs are too samey and similar, particularly in the verses, with not enough happening to make moments stand out or be memorable until you've listened to the album many times.

So basically, he wants an instant gratification record instead of one that grows on you.  Sounds like an impatient music listener.

That quote is actually exactly why I think this album isn't top DT for me.  The album just kind of blends together and there's not enough vocal melodies to separate them easily.  Of course if you've listened enough like I have, you do notice the differences, but I think this is a fair point personally as even with many listens, this issue is still my main problem with the album.

Okay, but to expand on the post I just made quoting another poster, it is that big of a deal if it is not "top DT"?  If the album is merely good, is that a bad thing?   Nothing wrong a good album.  I know the expectations are that artists always have to top or equal themselves, but I think for a 15th studio album, this is a very nice piece of work.  Not one of their best, no. Not by any stretch of the imagination, but it's a good record, worthy of the Dream Theater name.  IMO.

Oh of course it doesn't need to be "Top DT".  I very much enjoy the new album. I only have such high expectations because I'm a huge fan and I think this wasn't as good as the previous two albums (I'm sure that's a minority opinion).  I just wanted to point out that I didn't think that quote was so off base because I felt that way myself.

The album did take a couple of listens to parse things out, but I feel like that's a strength of the album. If anyone thinks these songs sound the same, they're obviously not listening.

What is a JP Chugga anyway?

They definitely aren't the same, but it all kind of blends together because they are all long songs with lots of JP chugga  and not enough vocal hooks to distinguish them on your first couple listens. It really takes a few listens to get to know these songs and I'm speaking from my own experience. 

I'm not sure where I'd rate this album, but it's overall probably on the bottom half of DT albums, but once again that doesn't mean it's bad or I dislike it.  It has it's place and it's very much a DT album.

[KevShmev]

Oh of course it doesn't need to be "Top DT".  I very much enjoy the new album. I only have such high expectations because I'm a huge fan and I think this wasn't as good as the previous two albums (I'm sure that's a minority opinion).  I just wanted to point out that I didn't think that quote was so off base because I felt that way myself.

Understand. All good. 

I agree that this isn't as good as the last two albums, but I still like it quite a bit. 

I'm not sure where I'd rate this album, but it's overall probably on the bottom half of DT albums, but once again that doesn't mean it's bad or I dislike it.  It has it's place and it's very much a DT album.

I doubt it will break my top 8 (Awake, Scenes, I&W, 6DOIT, Astonishing, Distance over Time, FII, Train of Thought), but I think it will settle nicely into that next tier when it is all said and done.  That is my thinking right now.

[TAC]

I assume that people that love DoT but hate View must rank Pale Blue Dot as their least favorite on Dot? Right? S2N must be ranked near the bottom as well.

Because all A View is is an album's worth of Pale Blue Dots and S2N's.

[cramx3]

I'm not sure I understand that TAC.  I think S2N was the 2nd best on DoT behind At Wits End. But if you are saying the album is a bunch of both of those songs, wouldn't that also support the idea, that you just rejected, of the songs sounding similar to each other?

[TAC]

I'm not sure I understand that TAC.  I think S2N was the 2nd best on DoT behind At Wits End. But if you are saying the album is a bunch of both of those songs, wouldn't that also support the idea, that you just rejected, of the songs sounding similar to each other?

I meant that those are the dense technical songs, something that people complain about on A View.


On a whole, I'm easily taking A View, however my favorite two songs from either album are At Wit's End and Fall Into The Light.

[hunnus2000]

When the reviewer wrote "Coming off the back of disastrous experiment The Astonishing, " I knew exactly where the review was going. 

I do agree about the numerous amounts of JP chuga's and that there's quite a bit on the album. Hell, even my wife commented on it but it in no way takes away any enjoyment I get from the album. In fact, how do we know they didn't purposely use this as a theme for the album. They're way too smart to not realize they were repeating themselves.

[Ben_Jamin]

If JP didn't chugga, the verses would sound too busy for me. The guitars are setting that foundation of the chords and the progression. I don't mind at all as it allows the focus to be on the other sounds made by the keyboards, the drums, the bass, and the vocals.

After listening to the Instrumental versions of the songs. I don't hear the complaints about there being no vocal melodies or hooks. Without these vocals melodies, the songs don't sound complete. Which to me, shows that the verses and JP's chuggas are meant to not sound busy but form a musical foundation for the vocals in the verse. It's as if the music takes the background setting while the camera focuses on the vocals and the lyrics.

[lovethedrake]

I went from having A View as my 13th favorite DT to my 5th in about 3 weeks.  However, I think it will likely end up somewhere in between.   It’s simply not inventive enough and it just sounds like if DT from 20 years ago suddenly became 20 years older and made an album.  That’s not a bad thing because Dream Theater of 20 years ago was as amazing as can be,  but it’s a band that sounds past their prime and just isn’t quite as good as they were when they were in their 30’s. Labrie is older and the vocal Melodies are extremely safe.   It’s a good record, but just doesn’t stand out and I’m not sure I will listen to it as much as some of their other more distinguished albums as time marches on.

As for being too samey… I find the two singles to be very distinct and then the other 5 tracks “sound” extremely similar.  Transcending Time perhaps being an exception just because of how different of an actual song it is. It’s almost like the two singles were recorded in different sessions in a different studio.

Overall though I’m pleased with the album, 15 albums in and consistently still making very good music is quite an achievement. 

[cramx3]

As for being too samey… I find the two singles to be very distinct and then the other 5 tracks “sound” extremely similar.  Transcending Time perhaps being an exception just because of how different of an actual song it is. It’s almost like the two singles were recorded in different sessions in a different studio.

I feel like I have a minority opinion here, and that's the Invisible Monster is a really good song.  It's one of the only really catchy vocal melodies of the album, maybe the only earworm for me.  The second verse is really awesome too.  I think it gets a lot of crap for being a bit too basic and the typical single for the masses, but I don't see why those things should hold back a song if I enjoy it. 

[wolfking]

I assume that people that love DoT but hate View must rank Pale Blue Dot as their least favorite on Dot? Right? S2N must be ranked near the bottom as well.

Because all A View is is an album's worth of Pale Blue Dots and S2N's.

BPD is one of my least favs, but S2N, not so much.  That's higher.

[Lonk]

I didn't listen to this album for a few weeks, and gave it another listen over the weekend through a good pair of headphones and 

Is not DT at its best, but it is certainly a good album. I still don't "get" Transcending Time, not sure if it's the Rush style, or what, but just does not do it for me. The rest of the album is good, and can't wait to see how some of these songs sound live.

[nick_z]

I assume that people that love DoT but hate View must rank Pale Blue Dot as their least favorite on Dot? Right? S2N must be ranked near the bottom as well.

Because all A View is is an album's worth of Pale Blue Dots and S2N's.

BPD is one of my least favs, but S2N, not so much.  That's higher.

I like both DoT and a View, and I like A View better. I never connected much with Pale Blue Dot, but I really enjoy S2N - I agree they are both dense technical songs, but I find S2N "fun" technical and PBD "kinda-boring" technical 

...which, in the end, also explains why I'm liking A View so much - I find myself engaged with the songs, even when they get a bit more technical.

[Setlist Scotty]

I feel like I have a minority opinion here, and that's the Invisible Monster is a really good song.  It's one of the only really catchy vocal melodies of the album, maybe the only earworm for me.  The second verse is really awesome too.  I think it gets a lot of crap for being a bit too basic and the typical single for the masses, but I don't see why those things should hold back a song if I enjoy it.

I agree that it's a good song. But after the fireworks of The Alien, it was a shock being the second single released. By itself, it doesn't seem to be all that great. But within the context of the whole album, it works really well, IMO.
 
 

Is not DT at its best, but it is certainly a good album. I still don't "get" Transcending Time, not sure if it's the Rush style, or what, but just does not do it for me. The rest of the album is good, and can't wait to see how some of these songs sound live.

That's the same for me - definitely my least favorite on the album, although it's still ok. It's funny because I love Rush, but I'm not a big fan of several of DT's songs that have an overt Rush influence. Not sure why, either.

[bosk1]

..and I am happy to know that I'm not the only one who thinks that JP's chuggas are a huge flaw..

Someone else earlier in the thread mentioned that as well, and I still come back to:  If that is what you are hearing, you either have a strange definition of chugging, or you aren't really listening carefully.  There is very little on this album that I would consider falling into that category.  Every song where the guitarist may happen to use palm muting isn't a "chugga-chugga" song.  Or if it is, I think you are defining the term so broadly that it doesn't really have any meaning, other than "I heard a palm mute in that song."  Well...welcome to metal then.    To me, there is a huge difference between, on one hand, the guitarist heavily palm muting most of a song in such a way that the guitar is largely emphasizing the rhythm and being amelodic vs., on the other hand, a shorter sections of palm muting as part of a longer melodic riff or on extended passages that evolve and morph into something else as the guitarist opens up or orchestrates the melodic riff.  JP is a master at the latter and has described that as part of his toolbag that he loves going back to.  I mean, if that isn't your thing, fine.  But it's very weird and offbase to categorize that as "chugga-chugga" when it's something different.

[425]

I assume that people that love DoT but hate View must rank Pale Blue Dot as their least favorite on Dot? Right? S2N must be ranked near the bottom as well.

Because all A View is is an album's worth of Pale Blue Dots and S2N's.

I'm not in the group you're talking to here, but this doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I like View way, way better than DoT (which is probably my least favorite DT album). But S2N is one of my least favorites on DoT (above only R137). And I'm not over the moon about PBD—it's at least behind Fall into the Light and At Wit's End for me on DoT, and would be behind at least five songs on View.