Author Topic: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread  (Read 140809 times)

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Offline Wim Kruithof

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1610 on: November 14, 2021, 12:37:18 PM »
Even answering questions like 'what is your favourite song/band/album?' is very difficult for me, because it's very dependent on when you're asking, or what I'm feeling like. Calling something your 'favourite' then, in essence, becomes rather meaningless, if you can have a new favourite thing the next day (or hour).

I follow what you're saying and agree with most parts, but for sure Dream Theater is my favorite band, they are at the top of the progressive (metal) mountain and not a band even comes close. Pink Floyd would be my follow-up, with Metallica in their shadow. But Dream Theater fills about 95% of the music I listen to. That has been so last couple of years and will be like this in the future, I pressume.

Also, watching that interview with Peter helped a lot in understanding the role vocals play within the music, the components to composing vocal parts, and singing live.

You mean the interview with Peter Orullian? I'll give it a try but more than two hours is kind of a challenge.
Wim pointed out something I don't see mentioned very often...

Offline 425

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1611 on: November 14, 2021, 01:33:30 PM »
There are lots of albums out there where I like every song. The things is that with music, it's simply not possible to factually call something better than something else. Even answering questions like 'what is your favourite song/band/album?' is very difficult for me, because it's very dependent on when you're asking, or what I'm feeling like. Calling something your 'favourite' then, in essence, becomes rather meaningless, if you can have a new favourite thing the next day (or hour). When I did the Album top 50 thread(s) on DTF, I named Images & Words as my #1 album and that's probably what I'll still default to, despite not listening to it for more than once every year (if at all) these days. It is an easy answer however, because it's the album that sucked me into music first and foremost. Had that been something else entirely, my tastes might have been different, or might name a different album as my #1, but who cares, really?

This is another interesting issue. I don't think naming a favorite is meaningless, but I think it's context-dependent. Does "favorite" mean the album I most want to listen to today, or the album I want to listen to the most times over the next year? Or does it mean the one I've enjoyed the most across the whole of my life?

I think that last is what most people mean, and I think it's definitely hard to measure because you're ultimately trying to measure your emotional responses to those albums. Those can change day-to-day, so you're really trying to measure the average across time. I know when I've done top 50 songs lists on here, I've made decisions in the particular rankings that I know were too high or too low to capture how I feel about a particular song on average across time, and were based on my feelings during the days or weeks when I made the list.

I think the challenge of doing this is one of the reasons why people like to do the "if you could only take one/five/ten to a desert island" thought experiment. It gets you to think about your preferences from a long-term perspective, because the scenario pressures you to pick not just the album you want to hear today or tomorrow, but the album you can imagine wanting to listen to for the rest of your life.

For me, Images and Words is an easy #1 for my favorite album of all time. But I literally haven't listened to the whole studio album straight through in over two years. How is it my favorite? It's still the one that means the most to me now and has meant the most to me across time. And when I do the "desert island" thought experiment, it's the first one that comes to mind, always. It's just that I know every note by heart and want to spend the majority of my time exploring other music, with the knowledge that IAW is always waiting if I want to return to it.

I think you can still like or even love albums, even if there are moments on an album that you don't like. In fact, whenever I'm listening to albums, there's never a song I will skip. I just don't do it. It's part of what makes something enjoyable as well; if a song/album/band doesn't have any low points (for you!), then it can't have any highs either and everything would blend together in a one-dimensional sameness. Again, that's my idea of how this stuff works, don't take that as a fact.

I also never skip songs when I'm listening to a full album—to me, doing that is a unified experience that I don't want to break. That's not to say I never listen to songs individually, but they're two different kinds of listening.

I sort of agree with your perspective that there have to be some not-so-high points in order to have high points, but I think there can be such a thing as a really high baseline with really high highs that stick out for being really high highs. To take IAW again, I think the baseline quality of any part of that album is really high, but things like the F#5 and Petrucci's following solo, the opening section of Surrounded, "I was told there would be no one to call on when I feel alone and afraid," and a few others still stand out as even higher highs.


Even answering questions like 'what is your favourite song/band/album?' is very difficult for me, because it's very dependent on when you're asking, or what I'm feeling like. Calling something your 'favourite' then, in essence, becomes rather meaningless, if you can have a new favourite thing the next day (or hour).

I follow what you're saying and agree with most parts, but for sure Dream Theater is my favorite band, they are at the top of the progressive (metal) mountain and not a band even comes close. Pink Floyd would be my follow-up, with Metallica in their shadow. But Dream Theater fills about 95% of the music I listen to. That has been so last couple of years and will be like this in the future, I pressume.

I think there's a challenge for those of us who are more long-time fans to talk about this with newer fans without coming across as dismissive of your preferences or dampening your enthusiasm. But I think a lot of us had a period where it felt like Dream Theater was most of what we'd ever listen to, and then over time that changed. That's certainly what happened for me. Not to say that my love for the band and the music is gone, not to say that I never listen to them anymore, but my listening habits did change and generally widened. Also not to say that will for sure happen for you. But it's a common enough experience that there are plenty of us who remember experiencing that shift in listening preferences and that widening of our musical worlds.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1612 on: November 15, 2021, 08:35:12 AM »
Greatest album of all time doesn't mean every song has to be perfect. I'm sure even the consensus greatest album of all time has a dud. I don't know though I guess we could look into it

So you're supposing the Greatest Album Of All Time™ can be greater than the sum of its parts? Then what about an album where *every* song is perfect, does that mean it's not the greatest? Greatest implies there can only be one, so how could an album with a non-perfect run of songs be better than any album with ALL perfect songs?  :P

Back to bring the thread back on topic - I keep coming back to AVFTTOTW every other day now, and I still really enjoy it. I've been listening to a lot of MM-era DT so its been interesting to hear how the band has developed since Mangini joined. There's definitely a sort of through-line that has developed, even including The Astonishing, which some might see as an anomaly given its nature as a concept album/rock opera and not really in-line with the traditional album-of-unrelated-songs that DT is mostly known for.

This group of five albums by the band feels like the inverse of what the previous five were - SDOIT and TOT were pretty great over-all, feeling fresh and inspired, with the latter having a clear direction in terms of how the band set off to write the album (a full-on metal-inspired work), then Octavarium came by and was a bit divisive but really was a hit with a portion of the fanbase, and then the next two have been seen as hit-or-miss. Going up through the Mangini albums, the first two have been seen as a bit hit-or-miss with some fans, then the divisive Astonishing album, and then finally two albums that have been pretty great over-all, with one having a clear direction (DOT having a focus on shorter, more concise songs). I'd say we're at a peak of the DT sine-wave now where we were at with SDOIT almost twenty years ago. Some might disagree with this assessment and that's fine, just something I thought of just now that seemed a bit intriguing to me.

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Going For The One is my favorite album of all time.  Parallels is not of the levl of the rest of the record, but it FITS.  The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.   Wind and Wuthering is a top ten album all time for me; "Your Own Special Way" is one of my least favorite Genesis songs ever, but the rest of the album is SO strong it makes up for it.   

Offline Stadler

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1613 on: November 15, 2021, 08:53:17 AM »
This is another interesting issue. I don't think naming a favorite is meaningless, but I think it's context-dependent. Does "favorite" mean the album I most want to listen to today, or the album I want to listen to the most times over the next year? Or does it mean the one I've enjoyed the most across the whole of my life?

I think that last is what most people mean, and I think it's definitely hard to measure because you're ultimately trying to measure your emotional responses to those albums. Those can change day-to-day, so you're really trying to measure the average across time. I know when I've done top 50 songs lists on here, I've made decisions in the particular rankings that I know were too high or too low to capture how I feel about a particular song on average across time, and were based on my feelings during the days or weeks when I made the list.

I agree with this.  GFTO is just that album that seems to scratch the itch most often in the most circumstances.  But at any given day, I'm looking for something different, I have a different emotion to respond to.  It's all "of the moment".   

Quote

I think there's a challenge for those of us who are more long-time fans to talk about this with newer fans without coming across as dismissive of your preferences or dampening your enthusiasm. But I think a lot of us had a period where it felt like Dream Theater was most of what we'd ever listen to, and then over time that changed. That's certainly what happened for me. Not to say that my love for the band and the music is gone, not to say that I never listen to them anymore, but my listening habits did change and generally widened. Also not to say that will for sure happen for you. But it's a common enough experience that there are plenty of us who remember experiencing that shift in listening preferences and that widening of our musical worlds.

That's true for any emotion; if I just won the lottery and you just lost your job, we've got a disconnect.   I think here, though, there should be SLIGHTLY more respect for the individuality of the reaction, even if this is a fan board.  The DT catalogue is varied enough that it's very possible that something connects on an epic level, and something else does not.

Offline Wim Kruithof

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1614 on: November 15, 2021, 11:16:36 AM »
Not to say that my love for the band and the music is gone, not to say that I never listen to them anymore, but my listening habits did change and generally widened. Also not to say that will for sure happen for you. But it's a common enough experience that there are plenty of us who remember experiencing that shift in listening preferences and that widening of our musical worlds.

I agree and it does happened to me. But by doing so Dream Theater came in my way and I used to close my windows very often, to totally focus and digest the vinyl spinning in my living room. And besides two of my all time favorites, the Wall & Pulse... all my musical content is Dream Theater nowadays.

To me, emotionally... the Wall would very possible be my favorite album of all times. It's the album that means so much in my personal life, because of the similarities with Waters circumstances, which felt so common and therefore, accepted, somehow. At least familiar.

However, musically, perhaps the Astonishing would be at the top. Each time I dive in for two hours of magic, I learn more and more of the complexity and unbelievable lines that are weaved throughout this record.
Wim pointed out something I don't see mentioned very often...

Offline jammindude

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1615 on: November 15, 2021, 07:48:15 PM »
Now I’m really getting into it. It took a few weeks to settle in, but I’m now totally comfortable with every song on this album. My “probably” opinion on this being the best MM album has now become a “definitely”.  This is just a really fun and amazing album from start to finish.

Hard to know where I’ll end up ranking it, but probably near the top of the “mid-tier” albums. 8V, IAW, SFAM, and Awake will always be “the untouchables”.

The hooks really get stuck in your head once you’ve taken the time to get to know it. Cranking it up in the car with ZERO distraction was a big help to picking up some of the finer moments.
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Offline TAC

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1616 on: November 15, 2021, 07:52:55 PM »
Now I’m really getting into it. It took a few weeks to settle in, but I’m now totally comfortable with every song on this album. My “probably” opinion on this being the best MM album has now become a “definitely”.  This is just a really fun and amazing album from start to finish.

Hard to know where I’ll end up ranking it, but probably near the top of the “mid-tier” albums. 8V, IAW, SFAM, and Awake will always be “the untouchables”.

The hooks really get stuck in your head once you’ve taken the time to get to know it. Cranking it up in the car with ZERO distraction was a big help to picking up some of the finer moments.

AWESOME!!
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline jammindude

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1617 on: November 15, 2021, 08:11:18 PM »
Another hot take:

The Alien is IMO *far and away* the best single since As I Am.

But as I was going back through the “advance” singles of all the albums, it occurred to me that I think 8V might be the only album that had no advance single. I’m pretty sure no one that wasn’t “in the know” with an advance copy heard a note until the album came out. Heck, Wiki had to remind me that MP shut down the MP and DT forums a week before the album came out.

But anyway, ya…TA, best single since AIA and it’s not close.
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Offline TAC

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1618 on: November 15, 2021, 08:12:12 PM »
Another hot take:

The Alien is IMO *far and away* the best single since As I Am.

But as I was going back through the “advance” singles of all the albums, it occurred to me that I think 8V might be the only album that had no advance single. I’m pretty sure no one that wasn’t “in the know” with an advance copy heard a note until the album came out. Heck, Wiki had to remind me that MP shut down the MP and DT forums a week before the album came out.

But anyway, ya…TA, best single since AIA and it’s not close.


I think The Alien is the best song on the album.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
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Offline jammindude

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1619 on: November 15, 2021, 08:21:02 PM »
Another hot take:

The Alien is IMO *far and away* the best single since As I Am.

But as I was going back through the “advance” singles of all the albums, it occurred to me that I think 8V might be the only album that had no advance single. I’m pretty sure no one that wasn’t “in the know” with an advance copy heard a note until the album came out. Heck, Wiki had to remind me that MP shut down the MP and DT forums a week before the album came out.

But anyway, ya…TA, best single since AIA and it’s not close.


I think The Alien is the best song on the album.

Possibly…but it hardly seems fair because the rest of the album doesn’t feel like an “also ran” either.  There’s just a very high quality level across the board. This is one of those albums that is going to be extremely difficult to rank the songs.
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Offline The Realm

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1620 on: November 15, 2021, 10:02:34 PM »
Love the music in The Alien, just can't stand the vocals/vocal melodies just so lame and uninspiring.

Offline bosk1

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1621 on: November 15, 2021, 10:03:41 PM »
Another hot take:

The Alien is IMO *far and away* the best single since As I Am.

But as I was going back through the “advance” singles of all the albums, it occurred to me that I think 8V might be the only album that had no advance single. I’m pretty sure no one that wasn’t “in the know” with an advance copy heard a note until the album came out. Heck, Wiki had to remind me that MP shut down the MP and DT forums a week before the album came out.

But anyway, ya…TA, best single since AIA and it’s not close.

I wouldn't quite agree with it being the best single overall since then, but it is a great song.  Was Constant Motion the lead single from SC?  If so, I would rank it as their #3 lead single, behind Pull Me Under (#1) and Constant Motion (#2).  As I Am is somewhere near the bottom. 
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Offline jammindude

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1622 on: November 15, 2021, 10:18:53 PM »
Another hot take:

The Alien is IMO *far and away* the best single since As I Am.

But as I was going back through the “advance” singles of all the albums, it occurred to me that I think 8V might be the only album that had no advance single. I’m pretty sure no one that wasn’t “in the know” with an advance copy heard a note until the album came out. Heck, Wiki had to remind me that MP shut down the MP and DT forums a week before the album came out.

But anyway, ya…TA, best single since AIA and it’s not close.

I wouldn't quite agree with it being the best single overall since then, but it is a great song.  Was Constant Motion the lead single from SC?  If so, I would rank it as their #3 lead single, behind Pull Me Under (#1) and Constant Motion (#2).  As I Am is somewhere near the bottom.

I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure Forsaken was the lead single. Constant Motion was 2nd. (Personally didn’t care for either of them)

EDIT - Wiki says I’m wrong…even though I totally don’t remember it that way.  Oh well.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1623 on: November 15, 2021, 10:23:41 PM »
That just reminds me that SC had incredibly strong singles.  Perhaps the best collection of singles up until View.  So maybe we agree on this "hot take":  View has the best collection of singles of any DT album.  Whatcha think?
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Offline jammindude

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1624 on: November 15, 2021, 10:26:28 PM »
That just reminds me that SC had incredibly strong singles.  Perhaps the best collection of singles up until View.  So maybe we agree on this "hot take":  View has the best collection of singles of any DT album.  Whatcha think?

Minus the SC praise, I totally agree.  ;D
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1625 on: November 16, 2021, 06:20:59 AM »
I remember that Constant Motion (their worst single ever and a bottom 5 song from any DT album) and The Dark Eternal Night were the songs released prior to Systematic Chaos as both had videos, although I think the latter might have been just a studio one, but still.  Not sure if either was considered a single, or just pre-release promotional videos.  I don't remember Forsaken and its video hitting until after the album was out. 

The Alien might be the best lead single of the Mangini era, but I cannot recall, what was the lead one from The Astonishing?  The Alien is certainly better than On the Backs of Angels or Untethered Angel.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2021, 06:26:29 AM by KevShmev »

Offline erciccio

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1626 on: November 16, 2021, 06:33:31 AM »
I remember that Constant Motion (their worst single ever and a bottom 5 song from any DT album) and The Dark Eternal Night were the songs released prior to Systematic Chaos as both had videos, although I think the latter might have been just a studio one, but still.  Not sure if either was considered a single, or just pre-release promotional videos.  I don't remember Forsaken and its video hitting until after the album was out. 

The Alien might be the best lead single of the Mangini era, but I cannot recall, what was the lead one from The Astonishing?  The Alien is certainly better than On the Backs of Angels or Untethered Angel.

The two singles from the Astonishing were The Gift of Music and Moment of Betrayal, if I am not wrong.

I actually like both them, more that The Alien (that's not a bad song though)
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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1627 on: November 16, 2021, 06:34:19 AM »
I remember that Constant Motion (their worst single ever and a bottom 5 song from any DT album) and The Dark Eternal Night were the songs released prior to Systematic Chaos as both had videos, although I think the latter might have been just a studio one, but still.  Not sure if either was considered a single, or just pre-release promotional videos.  I don't remember Forsaken and its video hitting until after the album was out. 

I remember as well that this is how it happened.

The Alien might be the best lead single of the Mangini era, but I cannot recall, what was the lead one from The Astonishing? 

The Gift of Music.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1628 on: November 16, 2021, 10:59:22 AM »
The two singles from the Astonishing were The Gift of Music and Moment of Betrayal, if I am not wrong.
I know that TGOM was the lead single.  I think you're right about MOB.

But Our New World was also a single for that album.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1629 on: November 16, 2021, 11:55:15 AM »
The two singles from the Astonishing were The Gift of Music and Moment of Betrayal, if I am not wrong.

I actually like both them, more that The Alien (that's not a bad song though)

IMO, TA singles were the best two of any DT singles that I can remember since being a fan before SC release.

Offline Glasser

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1630 on: November 16, 2021, 12:34:42 PM »
I'm in the minority saying Invisible Monster is my favorite DT single. This song is amazing! It's so catchy while being sneaky progressive as well as having a killer chord progression and a personal lyrical theme. So damn underrated.

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1631 on: November 16, 2021, 12:39:29 PM »
I'm in the minority saying Invisible Monster is my favorite DT single. This song is amazing! It's so catchy while being sneaky progressive as well as having a killer chord progression and a personal lyrical theme. So damn underrated.

It's probably my least favorite of the 3 from this album.  But that said, it's still fantastic.  The more I listen, the more I love it.  Even though, broadly speaking, the structure is VERY straightforward (verse, chorus, verse, chorus, solos, chorus), it does a lot within that structure.  And the way JP expands the riff underneath the vocals on the extended verses is SO classic DT.  Really great song.
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Offline LKap13

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1632 on: November 16, 2021, 12:47:52 PM »
I'm so stoked to see this album live. Would def follow the band x-country on this one if I could ha

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1633 on: November 16, 2021, 01:12:30 PM »
Invisible Monster is still my least favorite song on the album, but I will admit, it's grown on me a LOT.
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Offline LKap13

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1634 on: November 16, 2021, 01:14:47 PM »
Invisible Monster is still my least favorite song on the album, but I will admit, it's grown on me a LOT.

I agree with this sentiment, though would substitute it with A LITTLE

Offline rab7

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1635 on: November 16, 2021, 01:23:21 PM »
Invisible Monster is my least favorite of the album, but it's my favorite out of all my least favorites from each album

Offline lovethedrake

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1636 on: November 16, 2021, 01:33:59 PM »
I think IM is so essential for the album.  It's very different than the rest of the album but still fits in nicely.  It provides a really good change of pace with the mid tempo and the crunchy guitar. 

I really like it overall but its also just an important song for the cohesion of the album IMO.

Offline geeeemo

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1637 on: November 16, 2021, 01:45:48 PM »
IM is the one song that is....easy. You don't have to listen hard and re-listen. It's like peace in the chaos. 

I really dig this song and never skip it. I like both the videos as well.

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1638 on: November 16, 2021, 04:12:41 PM »
Loving this album to bits (with IM removed - but I didn't come here to slate IM).

This album has a vibe a little different to all other DT albums, I think. It reminds me a little of DoT, but there's a lot of rhythms that remind me a bit of how I listen to Meshuggah. It's in the those chugga verses etc that I initially thought
were too frequent but have really opened up.

ATM might be favourite song. The 8 string range is really nicely handled, and not in a predictable way. The melodic content mixed with the off-kilter heavy stuff is amazing. The changes between the different styles and keys is handled so well across the track.

The Alien continues to be a great journey from start to end.

The title track has a great lyrical angle and the music really fits that. Esp that triumphant sounding guitar lead thing that i think only appears once near the start. Tons of great rhythms in this one.

It's a very positive-feeling record.
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.

Offline LKap13

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1639 on: November 16, 2021, 04:14:17 PM »
Loving this album to bits (with IM removed - but I didn't come here to slate IM).

This album has a vibe a little different to all other DT albums, I think. It reminds me a little of DoT, but there's a lot of rhythms that remind me a bit of how I listen to Meshuggah. It's in the those chugga verses etc that I initially thought
were too frequent but have really opened up.

ATM might be favourite song. The 8 string range is really nicely handled, and not in a predictable way. The melodic content mixed with the off-kilter heavy stuff is amazing. The changes between the different styles and keys is handled so well across the track.

The Alien continues to be a great journey from start to end.

The title track has a great lyrical angle and the music really fits that. Esp that triumphant sounding guitar lead thing that i think only appears once near the start. Tons of great rhythms in this one.

It's a very positive-feeling record.

Agree fully

Offline LKap13

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1640 on: November 16, 2021, 04:27:35 PM »
That moment when you're tempted to say, do you guys understand how good this album is? But then you refrain from doing so but do it anyway

Offline bosk1

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1641 on: November 16, 2021, 04:37:44 PM »
:lol
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1642 on: November 16, 2021, 04:47:11 PM »
Invisible Monster > Sleeping Giant > Transcending Time.

Offline LKap13

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1643 on: November 16, 2021, 04:54:39 PM »
Invisible Monster > Sleeping Giant > Transcending Time.

Reverse for me

Offline sylentman

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Re: *Official* A View from the Top of the World discussion thread
« Reply #1644 on: November 16, 2021, 05:11:55 PM »
Cannot decide yet which is the one song on the album i like the most. Could pick any of them and feel any option is a good answer, same on any kind of combination songs order based on preference.

Still difficult not to repeat the album right away on every listen.