listening to all discography again.

[jayvee3]

With a great deal of listening over the last little bit with the coming new album, here are my current rankings. Nothing too out of the box in comparison to my normal ratings, but a bit more appreciation for WDADU and SC, which have come up a bit, with TOT and 8V slipping:

1) Scenes
2) Awake
3) FII
4) I&W
5) 6 Degrees
6) ADTOE
7) DoT
8) The Astonishing
9) Dream Theater
10) WDADU
11) SC
12) TOT
13) 8V
14 BCASL

[Wim Kruithof]

Interesting Jayvee, two of your last three have pinned their spot in my top three.

But that's exactly what Dream Theater is all about, there are so many perspectives on which or what is brilliance and for everyone there's lots of it, in there. Although my rankings change within each period, the base will be pretty much equal. And I truly hope A View will dig his way in the top, but I have a strong feeling he will be.

[Lax]

Mine would be :
1. Six Degrees of inner turbulence
2. Scenes from a memory
3. Images and words
4. Awake
5. Octavarium
6. Distance over time
7. A dramatic turn of events
8. Falling Into Infinity
9. Train of Thought
10. Dream Theater
11. When Dream and Day Unite
12.Black Clouds and Silver Linings
13. Systematic Chaos
14. The astonishing

[erciccio]

Most of the ToT-BCSL period for me is a pain to listen to; to my ears, they had lost their "magic" and their musical identity, trying too much to mimic other bands and to be more "modern".

In details:
 - ToT really sounds like a tribute to Metallica (Honor thy Damage In!) and Pantera, but I think DT was never too good at this and the originals are waaaaaay better. I really love Vacant and parts of ITNOG, but all the first 4 songs are really down in my rankings
 - Octavarium sounds like a Tribute disc- part II. Again, if I have to listen to U2 or Muse I prefer the originals...there is very little core-DT magic in here, with the exception of Octavarium. Razor's Edge contains probably the best music ever composed by DT, the chord progression/ melody there is pure genius! But it's not enough to save the disc.
 - SC is my least favourite cd, by far. Very few moments I love in there, such as the chord progression in the TMOLS finale or some parts of ITPOE. All the rest is really below their standard quality levels.
 - BCSL to me shows a lot of ups and downs in terms of quality and DT-ness. You can delight your self with the amazing "Beautiful Agony" section, the TCOT finale or the solo in The Best of Times...but to enjoy that, you have to survive to the pains of the growls, of the confusion of the Shattered Fortress, and of the main riff inTBOT (what was that John? A warm-up exercise?). 

At the time I could not admit it, but if look back they had ceased to be my favorite band..I was just hoping they would "come back" to their magic period.

And they did, at least for me, because ADTOE is a great album, where the "DT-magic" is back as the main ingredient in the music.
Yes, the mix is not perfect...but I don't care! Bridges in the Sky, Outcry, Breaking all Illusions and Beneath the Surface are all masterpieces for me.

[KevShmev]

As usual, my top 4 is set in stone, and the rest tends to fluctuate.

01 Awake
02 Scenes from a Memory
03 Images and Words
04 Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
05 The Astonishing
06 Falling into Infinity
07 Train of Thought
08 Distance over Time
09 Octavarium
10 A Dramatic Turn of Events
11 When Dream and Day Unite
12 Black Clouds and Silver Linings
13 Dream Theater
14 Systematic Chaos

[Wim Kruithof]

Bridges in the Sky, Outcry, Breaking all Illusions and Beneath the Surface are all masterpieces for me.

I follow you here totally, these four are why this album is in my top 3. Absolute brilliance shown in there.

But I do like Train of Thought and Black Clouds all that much, that's why they fill up the other places. To me there are no lows in there, not nearly as low as in Falling Into Infinity by example...

[Dream Team]

Most of the ToT-BCSL period for me is a pain to listen to; to my ears, they had lost their "magic" and their musical identity, trying too much to mimic other bands and to be more "modern".

In details:
 - ToT really sounds like a tribute to Metallica (Honor thy Damage In!) and Pantera, but I think DT was never too good at this and the originals are waaaaaay better. I really love Vacant and parts of ITNOG, but all the first 4 songs are really down in my rankings
 - Octavarium sounds like a Tribute disc- part II. Again, if I have to listen to U2 or Muse I prefer the originals...there is very little core-DT magic in here, with the exception of Octavarium. Razor's Edge contains probably the best music ever composed by DT, the chord progression/ melody there is pure genius! But it's not enough to save the disc.
 - SC is my least favourite cd, by far. Very few moments I love in there, such as the chord progression in the TMOLS finale or some parts of ITPOE. All the rest is really below their standard quality levels.
 - BCSL to me shows a lot of ups and downs in terms of quality and DT-ness. You can delight your self with the amazing "Beautiful Agony" section, the TCOT finale or the solo in The Best of Times...but to enjoy that, you have to survive to the pains of the growls, of the confusion of the Shattered Fortress, and of the main riff inTBOT (what was that John? A warm-up exercise?). 

At the time I could not admit it, but if look back they had ceased to be my favorite band..I was just hoping they would "come back" to their magic period.

And they did, at least for me, because ADTOE is a great album, where the "DT-magic" is back as the main ingredient in the music.
Yes, the mix is not perfect...but I don't care! Bridges in the Sky, Outcry, Breaking all Illusions and Beneath the Surface are all masterpieces for me.

 

[Lonk]

For some reason, Scarred actually reminded me a lot of WDADU, more than any other song on the album. Not so much the intro, and the softer parts, but the heavier parts, the outro, and the vocal melodies in the "wash your hands of regret" section.

Never thought of it that way but now that you mention it I hear it. Cool! 

[jayvee3]

Interesting Jayvee, two of your last three have pinned their spot in my top three.

But that's exactly what Dream Theater is all about, there are so many perspectives on which or what is brilliance and for everyone there's lots of it, in there. Although my rankings change within each period, the base will be pretty much equal. And I truly hope A View will dig his way in the top, but I have a strong feeling he will be.

Absolutely. It's one of the reasons I love the band so much - the degree of opinions on all the different albums across the fanbase is so varied.

I think one of the things that makes those albums my bottom 3, is that I just dont have that huge an interest to listen to them that much, or skip many of the songs off them when on shuffle. The songs Octavarium, The Count, Sacrificed Sons, Endless Sacrifice, In the Name of God and As I am are the exception. However, how an album affects someone else is so dependent on not only if the songs are pleasing to the ears, but nostalgia, musical preferences etc. So it's so great to hear differing opinions.

I will say - I actually listen to many of the MM era albums far more than 6 Degrees and particularly I&W. However, I put I&W in my top 4 as its actually the album that got me into the band, it was unlike anything I had ever heard, while being the catalyst for starting the musical journey that I would go on with the band for the best part of 30 years

[Trav86]

Oh, what the hell…
Besides the top four, this order has changed a lot for me this past year.

Scenes From a Memory
Images and Words
Awake
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
Distance Over Time
The Astonishing
Train of Thought
Dream Theater
A Dramatic Turn of Events
Octavarium
Falling Into Infinity
When Dream and Day Unite
Systematic Chaos
Black Clouds and Silver Linings

[Wim Kruithof]

With Dream Theater is it so hard to rank albums, because... the ones I do not enjoy that much, are obviously ones that I don't listen to enough. Listening carefully is the perfect cure to raise the value of an album. Having said, if I had to rank them now, I'll throw them in some groups.

Good: Falling into Infinity / Systematic Chaos / The Astonishing / Distance over Time
Great: When Dream and Day Unite / Images & Words / Awake / Scenes from a Memory / Octavarium
Brilliant: Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence / a Dramatic Turn of Events / Dream Theater
Perfect: Train of Thought & Black Clouds & Silver Linings

The EP Change of Seasons would be 'good', the song thought, is perfect. If I had to rank live albums, it would be like this...

Good: Live at the Marquee / Once in a Livetime
Great: Live Scenes from New York / Score / Chaos in Motion / Distant Memories
Brilliant: Live in Budokan / Breaking the Fourth Wall
Perfect: Live in Luna Park

When it changes little by little ev'ry now and then, for example when I listen to Systematic Chaos after a while and hear the epic, Ministry of Lost Souls, Forsaken and Prophets of War, I'll tend to raise it up in ranking. But the same will happen with When Dream and Day Unite, with the brilliance of Ytse Jam or the Killing Hand.

So basicly the above is my main classification.

[The Letter M]

So even though I said I wouldn't, on a whim I started listening to DT music from the beginning yesterday, starting with The Majesty Demos, and went through WDADU and IAW throughout the day, then ended my day with Awake. Today has been FII, ACOS, Cleaning Out The Closet, and now SFAM, and I'll probably give SDOIT a spin later tonight before bed.

After 18 years of listening to Dream Theater music, I can say that my feelings about the first 10 albums are all still about the same as they have been for the last ten years. Of course fan-favorites like IAW and SFAM are still some of my own personal favorites. FII is still good, just different than what came before and after, and it really stands out because of that, but there is still some great material on that album. It would have been a BETTER album had some of the B-Sides been put on it, and the demo versions of songs like "You Or Me" and "Take Away My Pain" had been used instead of what we got on the final album, though I am glad they pulled "Hell's Kitchen" out of "Burning My Soul", both of which create an amazing suite with "Lines In The Sand", the best three-song-run of FII.

I will say this - the bass playing/writing was much more prominent in the early days. Between the Majesty Demos and WDADU, you really get a feel for how much JM was really into the music and wanted to be up front in the mix. Those songs are all amazing for him, but after IAW, he just started fading into the background a bit and, while there are some great moments of bass throughout Awake and FII, it's not as noticeably up-front as it was before.

-Marc.

[erwinrafael]

That is not necessarily bad for bass playing. In our band, we hate it when the rhythm section goes out of its way to call attention to itself instead of keeping the "pulse" beating steadily.

[Wim Kruithof]

I've been giving the Astonishing quite some time lately and men... what a great album that really is. Although from the start I digged it, it is aging so well for me and some of their pieces really are sneaking under my skin, like a Savior in the Square, Chosen, the Path That Devides and the brilliant combination of Whispers On the Wind and Hymn of a Thousand Voices.

I rated it in the lower 'good-section' before but how could it stay there, being so beautiful.

[Mark Levinson Jr.]

I basically like everything they've ever done, but in the last few years I've listed to the Mangini era stuff the most.
I just really love the "maturity" of it.

Same thing with Iron Maiden, I just hear something in the last few releases that I don't think a band could do without a catalog of experience behind them.
For Rush, when they talk about the 80's music lacking, I just always heard a band who was subtlety getting incrementally better.

Not everyone though, I think early Yes was by far the best Yes.
Maybe it has something to do with so many member changes?

[AVFTTOTW]

- Under A Glass Moon still remains on of the songs I just don't get. I skip it actually.

Here's a hot take that I've felt for years now.

I usually skip the first four songs on Images And Words, the last four songs on the other hand.... 

[AVFTTOTW]

I was never a big Train of Thought fan either, but Honor Thy Father is the best off that album I think, then Stream Of Consciousness and ITNOG.

Octavarium is almost a whole album skip for me.

All those plus BC&SL, DT and The Astonishing are also on the lower side of their discog in my view.


All of DT's other work is relatively solid for me though (including the blacksheep of WDADU).

[bosk1]

I basically like everything they've ever done, but in the last few years I've listed to the Mangini era stuff the most.
I just really love the "maturity" of it.

Same thing with Iron Maiden, I just hear something in the last few releases that I don't think a band could do without a catalog of experience behind them.
For Rush, when they talk about the 80's music lacking, I just always heard a band who was subtlety getting incrementally better.

Great post and great observations.  Regarding the bolded, I agree that that is true of a lot of bands.  Taking Dream Theater as an example, that's why I REALLY like the Mangini-era albums, and have 2 of them in my top 4.  In them, I hear a band that has truly mastered its craft and is able to consistently write at a high quality.  It is also true that the latter albums may not have the "fire" or "creativity" of some of the earlier material, and the peaks may not reach as high as some of those "classics."  But there is also a consistent level of songwriting that the band hadn't yet developed in those early years. 

[Max Kuehnau]

A View would be your third one with a high rank then, I'd guess.

[UndercoverMyung]

Unfortunately I'm still not a big SDOIT fan after this most recent relisten. The title track was certainly better this time than in the past, but I don't think it's amazing. It gives me Astonishing vibes. Sorry! I know this is a bad opinion.

[bosk1]

I don't think I've ever attempted to listen to the discog chronologically, especially in preparation for a release.  But maybe I'll do it just for kicks. 

Listened to WDADU on the way in to work this morning.  I haven't listened to the studio album much at all, and it's been a long time, so there was some things that caught me a bit by surprise.  I'll repeat what I've said in the past about Charlie in that he doesn't sound bad for the times these songs were written.  But where DT was going, they weren't writing songs that were suited for his voice.  I like his smoothness.  But he lacked the power, especially in his upper register, to give DT music the punch it needs. 

I'm generally not usually one to comment on production, and maybe actively dislike only a handful or two of albums based on production.  But the flatness and how muffled everything sounds on WDADU definitely hurts the overall listening experience for me. That said, despite it being my least favorite DT album, there is still a lot to like. 

[Wim Kruithof]

Bosk, I understand what your saying but Dominici to me did a terrific job on this one. And despite the poor production I really like the album, more than I do Falling Into Infinity for example. Especially the Killing Hand. Like a Savior in the Square it's intro is almost perfect. Itse Jam is badass and so complex to play. A Fortune in Lies and Status Seeker is another great one-two punch.

I really like it. It has some similarities with Kill 'm All from Metallica I think, based on sound / production. Both the production lacks, both their debutes are by far not their best albums but both did a great job for me.

[UndercoverMyung]

I'm on Systematic Chaos now. I stand by this: Prophets of War is EXTREMELY underrated and is the 2nd best song on the album, with ITPOE being the best imo.

[geeeemo]

I'm on Systematic Chaos now. I stand by this: Prophets of War is EXTREMELY underrated and is the 2nd best song on the album, with ITPOE being the best imo.

Agree 100%.

[TAC]

I think Prophets Of War is amazing and is not deserving of the flack it gets. James is fantastic on it. In fact, James is great on Systematic Chaos.

[AVFTTOTW]

Prophets Of War is a strong song, I agree, it also does the Muse thing way more successfully than Never Enough. It's definitely one of the highlights of the album (my three are ITPOE, POW and TDEN)

[TAC]

I was so glad they played it in Boston on their BC&SL tour.

[GasparXR]

Recently listened to some non-album songs, FII, SFAM, and SDOIT. The non-album tracklist was this:

Raise the Knife (Score version)
Where Are You Now?
To Live Forever ('94 version)
Another Won (Score version)
The Way It Used to Be
Eve
Don't Look Past Me
Cover My Eyes
Speak To Me
A Change of Seasons

Needless to say, this doesn't make for a complete and well-fitting album experience, but it's not bad. The only ones really out of place are Another Won (which was my least favourite song of this bunch) and DLPM (which is also one of my least favourites of the set). Both of those just feel out of place musically too. If you cut those, it has an alright flow, and runs about 74 minutes long. ACOS is just close enough to the Awake/FII sound that it fits with the others. Favourites of this bunch were ACOS, Cover My Eyes, and To Live Forever.

For FII, I actually didn't love it as much as I've been saying I loved it for years -- it was one of my top 4 for a loong time, but this time it just didn't excite me in the same way. It's still great, but I like almost every album so far a bit better, minus WDADU. Favourite song was still Lines in the Sand, with Peruvian Skies and Trial of Tears being close behind. Least favourite was Burning My Soul probably. I would tie it with You Not Me, but the weird vocal sound in the third verse throws me off a bit.

SFAM didn't surprise me at how much a liked it -- better than every other album so far. Still don't like Dance of Eternity a whole lot, but it's cool. Favourite songs were Home, Finally Free, and Beyond This Life.

SDOIT surprised me a bit, because I thought it started with its weakest song this time around --  The Glass Prison opens magnificently, and it doesn't really drag on despite being almost 14 minutes long, but I just feel like the musical content is at least a bit better on every other song. Favourite song is the title track. It's just SO full of fantastic melodies, and excellent orchestration. Misunderstood is usually my favourite from Disc 1, but I might actually choose Blind Faith over it this time. Something about it this time really got me.

Since I got really behind and the new album is out already, I'll still give it a listen, then finish the discography and revisit it. I can't wait any longer, I'll fall behind all the discussion

[Dedalus]

Nothing like a new release from the band to dust off discography. 

I had already listened to all the records with Mangini days ago and would stop there....but I decided to go ahead and listen to some records with my friend MP on drums.

Listening to BCSL now    .... ANTR is really really bad. 

Edit: I don't remember when I last listened to BCSL. I remember listening to the entire discography when they released TA, but I don't remember if I did that when they released DOT.

Anyway, the record is as I remembered it, for the most part.

Some small surprises:

- I didn't remember that TSF was almost completely made up of pieces from the previous songs. In my head there was about 30% of the original composition, but not even that. 
- TCOT is the best song on the album, but I found myself without much patience to listen to it. Maybe because it's the last... 

Also, I found AROP a little less irritating than I used to and this was a HUGE surprise. I've always considered this DT's worst song (or the second worst  ).

It's really a really bad record  .

Maybe in the DT16 cycle I'll listen again. 

[GasparXR]

Nothing like a new release from the band to dust off discography. 

I had already listened to all the records with Mangini days ago and would stop there....but I decided to go ahead and listen to some records with my friend MP on drums.

Listening to BCSL now    .... ANTR is really really bad. 

Edit: I don't remember when I last listened to BCSL. I remember listening to the entire discography when they released TA, but I don't remember if I did that when they released DOT.

Anyway, the record is as I remembered it, for the most part.

Some small surprises:

- I didn't remember that TSF was almost completely made up of pieces from the previous songs. In my head there was about 30% of the original composition, but not even that. 
- TCOT is the best song on the album, but I found myself without much patience to listen to it. Maybe because it's the last... 

Also, I found AROP a little less irritating than I used to and this was a HUGE surprise. I've always considered this DT's worst song (or the second worst  ).

It's really a really bad record  .

Maybe in the DT16 cycle I'll listen again. 

I disagree with this for the most part, although I do still think it's one of my lesser favourite DT albums. We'll see how I react to it again when I get to it.


Just listened to Train of Thought yesterday as well, and I liked it better than last time! This Dying Soul is still my least favourite; mostly just some weird choices of how JLB's voice is used and processed, and the bit at the end feels a bit unecessary. SoC is a cool instrumental, but I feel like some of JP's solos are a bit TOO over the top. I don't usually think he overplays, but this is one of those small instances. Great song though, especially that groovy middle section.

Favourite song is ITNOG still. It's just so powerful with it's melodies, and the riffs are killer. Endless Sacrifice is pretty close too. I actually really liked Honor Thy Father this time too; the melodies are also super powerful in this one.

One thing I realized while listening to HTF as well; this was the last song that they ever chose to include samples in correct? Although I don't mind them, and the sections they're in generally feel a bit more empty without them, I'm glad they stopped using them after this.

[Dedalus]

I've been listening to the discography backwards, as I mentioned before. It's worth mentioning that after DOT was released (February 2019) I listened to the record for a couple of months and after that I haven't heard any DT record until now. In other words, more than two years without listening to the band.

It was refreshing to listen to records from the Mangini era. Even because as they are the most recent, I think this helps in the perception that everything is new and fresh.

I started listening to previous records and then things got complicated. BCSL was OK, I don't like the record and I think it's worst of all (I keep swapping that position between BCSL and SC).
So I listened to SC twice! The first time I just wasn't paying attention.. OK, it's not a good album IMO, so no problem.

Yesterday I listened to Octavarium.... and I didn't finish! Again, I wasn't paying attention. I stopped the record in the middle of the title track, because it was only then that I really realized I wasn't paying that much attention. I don't think the album is great, but it's certainly better than the two that came later, and yet I'm having trouble listening.

I'm curious what it will be like when I get to SDOIT. 

[Wim Kruithof]

Prophets Of War is a strong song, I agree, it also does the Muse thing way more successfully than Never Enough. It's definitely one of the highlights of the album (my three are ITPOE, POW and TDEN)

You do not consider a Ministry of Lost Souls as beautiful also?

I do not get the fuzz about Systematic Chaos one bit though. In the Presence, Dark Eternal Night, Prophets of War, Ministry of Lost Souls... and Forsaken are absolute top-tracks for me.

Constant Motion is a little Dream Theater by numbers for me and I can't find the right emotion to digest Repentance, but all the rest is top quality and a very steady and wonderful record. It gets a lot of spins here at mine'...