Invisible Monster Thread ! ALL SPOILERS !

[Glasser]

Wait a minute, do people not like Behind The Veil?  That’s a really cool song.

Some do, and some don't.  Others think it's just kind of OK.

You know, like every other DT song.

a MEDLEY would have been better!!!!! 

A medley is almost never better.

I personally have a little constrained feelings about that song. It's nice, so nice, melodic, but so simple, so predictable with tons of  'dt heard moments before'
Middle section somewhere between 2,20' and 3' is pretty good.
Production/sound is on high level.

I hope it'll work like UA on DoT to me, my least favourite song on it.

Vlasto!  It's been so long!  I feel like a celebration is almost in order!

We'll think of something.

If a medley is done right I think it can be a better insight to the overall direction and quality of an album. But its only my opinion.

[lonestar]

My only disappointment is that they used up some of their "prime" years to explore a music style I'm not in love with (TOT-BC&SL).

Interesting...While I was just ok with ToT and SC, BC&SL was such a refreshing turn for me, especially TCoT my favorite DT song. Then they went into ADToE and I was so elated that they were back to a more melodic prog style, but that all went down for me real quick. I think it's to their credit that they're so diverse that they can satisfy such a huge chunk of fans with some stuff while simultaneously pissing off so many, and then other work has the opposite effects. No matter, they're DT, they're part of my musical genome, and they got me as a fan for better or worse till the day I die.

[gzarruk]

Just realized that this song, lyrically, is the cousin to The Enemy Inside.

[TAC]

BC&SL was such a refreshing turn for me, especially TCoT my favorite DT song.

I did not know that. That's awesome. An amazing track.

[jingle.boy]

I've generally come to accept that we aren't getting an album like SFAM or I&W anymore.   A huge part of that is due to Labrie aging which gives the band a considerably narrower range to write vocal melodies in.  We aren't getting the bridge from Another Day or Anna Lee anymore because it's simply not even possible.

Oh, I gave up on that years ago!  SC and BCSL I always had a lot to like about, even if there were moments of blech (for my tastes).  Like lonestar said, the return to more melodic/prog on ADTOE was awesome.  DT12 was good one as well.  For me, they completely lost the plot with TA.  DoT got them somewhat back on track, even with the over-production (esp with James), and a more rock/metal vibe than prog (for the most part).

I guess it's kinda hard for a band that hits it's peak with their 2nd album.  But overall, their trend line for me is going downward over the last 4 albums.

[bosk1]

There has to be something else at play. A reason why they don't produce an album full of octavariums. Two things come to mind right away, one of which is something jp has talked about
1) JP began to like the way headbanging songs felt for him while he played live... And he's been chasing that
2) they seem to worry that an album full of octavariums would sell no records

3) it must be damn hard to write a song like octavarium. As has been alluded to previously, if making records is their job, can we really expect them to go 100% into every measure, all the time? I sure as hell don't do that at my job 

Edit - jp has explicitly stated #1. Number 2 is my speculation

I don't think that is exactly right as to "why" they don't write an entire album of Octavarium. 

Regarding #1, I don't think that is entirely accurate.  JP has always been a metal head, even before the band was formed, and he has talked about that.  Yes, he likes playing metal live.  But it isn't something new that "began" sometime recently. 

For #2, I doubt that is even a concern.  The fan reaction to the song Octavarium is overwhelmingly positive.  I don't think they worry about not selling albums.  But I also don't think writing an album with 3-4 mega epics is a good move, and I think they would agree. 

For #3...I don't know what you mean.  Do you mean it is hard for them to write long songs?  They've written mega-epics since then (ITPOE, TCOT, IT, and AVFTTOTW).  Or do you mean songs with a mix of classic prog and metal?  That describes most of their material.  So I'm really confused about what you mean by that.

[TAC]

I can't remember if it's on the Romavarium DVD..but there a spot where JP is talking about the 8V album, and I have never in all of my years of being a DT fan seen him gush over an album like he did 8V.

[LKap13]

To #1, I recall him saying that he loved the reaction as I am (I think it was that) was getting live and wanted more of it. Anyone back me up on this? It's also noteworthy that his gear choice has been getting steadily heavier, think Ibanez to music man and now 8 string? This is the progression in observing, not knocking it

To 3, I'm taking complexity. Octavarium is a ridiculously complex song. To me it's the most complex song in the rock genre. I'm talking melody, sections, instrumentation, virtuosity, time sig, themes, and the combo of those. That's what I mean by difficult to compose

[bosk1]

I don't doubt that he loves the reaction to playing that kind of song live.  I'm just saying that that isn't something new.  You implied that that "began" at some later stage in his career, but that has always been the case.

[gzarruk]

On an unrelated note, we're just 4 weeks away from the album release, so reviewers should be getting their promo copies quite soon (if they haven't already, don't know how that works). This means we'll soon have a few more DTFers with access to the album so we can hopefully get more opinions/perspectives on the new album without having to put all the pressure on Glasser/Bosk to answer these questions

[Dedalus]

On an unrelated note, we're just 4 weeks away from the album release, so reviewers should be getting their promo copies quite soon (if they haven't already, don't know how that works). This means we'll soon have a few more DTFers with access to the album so we can hopefully get more opinions/perspectives on the new album without having to put all the pressure on Glasser/Bosk to answer these questions

We don't need it, Bosk can give us all the information we want, like in this example:

It is good. 

 

[gzarruk]

Only JM could've said it better

[LKap13]

Album is gonna be epic

[Peter Mc]

I can't remember if it's on the Romavarium DVD..but there a spot where JP is talking about the 8V album, and I have never in all of my years of being a DT fan seen him gush over an album like he did 8V.

I seem to remember him saying it was the album he’d play to someone who wanted to know what Dream Theater were like.  Something like that, like it was the quintessential DT album.  Ironically it’s my least favourite DT album and absolutely the last album I’d play to someone to show them what DT are like!

[Peter Mc]

To #1, I recall him saying that he loved the reaction as I am (I think it was that) was getting live and wanted more of it. Anyone back me up on this? It's also noteworthy that his gear choice has been getting steadily heavier, think Ibanez to music man and now 8 string? This is the progression in observing, not knocking it

To 3, I'm taking complexity. Octavarium is a ridiculously complex song. To me it's the most complex song in the rock genre. I'm talking melody, sections, instrumentation, virtuosity, time sig, themes, and the combo of those. That's what I mean by difficult to compose

I remember JP saying at the time of TOT’s release that they loved how amped the crowd would get for a song like The Glass Prison so they decided to make an album full of those songs.  Weirdly, I’m not sure if they ever played The Glass Prison again!  If they did, it’s very rare.

[bosk1]

To #1, I recall him saying that he loved the reaction as I am (I think it was that) was getting live and wanted more of it. Anyone back me up on this? It's also noteworthy that his gear choice has been getting steadily heavier, think Ibanez to music man and now 8 string? This is the progression in observing, not knocking it

To 3, I'm taking complexity. Octavarium is a ridiculously complex song. To me it's the most complex song in the rock genre. I'm talking melody, sections, instrumentation, virtuosity, time sig, themes, and the combo of those. That's what I mean by difficult to compose

I remember JP saying at the time of TOT’s release that they loved how amped the crowd would get for a song like The Glass Prison so they decided to make an album full of those songs.  Weirdly, I’m not sure if they ever played The Glass Prison again!  If they did, it’s very rare.

They played it on Gigantour, which I believe was during the Octavarium album cycle, if I remember correctly.

EDIT:  Yeah, it was during the Octavarium tour cycle.  I just checked the tour subforum.  (and I subsequently recall that they also played Panic Attack)  But, yeah, I'm not sure they've played it since then.  They should.  I nagged JP about it awhile back, and am hoping it resurfaces at some point soon.

[erwinrafael]

To 3, I'm taking complexity. Octavarium is a ridiculously complex song. To me it's the most complex song in the rock genre. I'm talking melody, sections, instrumentation, virtuosity, time sig, themes, and the combo of those. That's what I mean by difficult to compose

Meh, Illumination Theory blows Octavarium out of the water in terms of ordered complexity but I don't want to go down that road again and derail the thread. If they do an album full of Octavariums, I am pretty sure I will listen to it but not the way I binge listen (to this day) Distance Over Time, with songs that are complex without being excessive. And as somebody who has done a fair amount of composing (albeit in a very different genre), it takes much more effort to compose a complex song that is short than one that is quite indulgent.

On topic, I once shared that I heard my 8-year old son humming the outro guitar solo of The Alien. Well, yesterday, I heard him AND MY 5-year old daughter humming along to the keyboard melody of the intro of Invisible Monster.  From my experience playing music, children actually are much better barometers of the melodic hook of a song than us old farts. 

[wolfking]

bosk, my attention to detail especially on this side of the forum is usually pretty crap, but I had no idea you knew the DT guys!  What's your affiliation?

[TAC]

I've only listened to the entire album a handful of times (enough to be generally familiar so I can do my job and authenticate leaks, etc.),

Let us know when you've authenicated a leak!

[bosk1]

bosk, my attention to detail especially on this side of the forum is usually pretty crap, but I had no idea you knew the DT guys!  What's your affiliation?

[hunnus2000]

bosk, my attention to detail especially on this side of the forum is usually pretty crap, but I had no idea you knew the DT guys!  What's your affiliation?

And I always thought I was late to the party! I feel better now!

[MoraWintersoul]

bosk, my attention to detail especially on this side of the forum is usually pretty crap, but I had no idea you knew the DT guys!  What's your affiliation?

I may have rolled off the bed laughing.

[LKap13]

To #1, I recall him saying that he loved the reaction as I am (I think it was that) was getting live and wanted more of it. Anyone back me up on this? It's also noteworthy that his gear choice has been getting steadily heavier, think Ibanez to music man and now 8 string? This is the progression in observing, not knocking it

To 3, I'm taking complexity. Octavarium is a ridiculously complex song. To me it's the most complex song in the rock genre. I'm talking melody, sections, instrumentation, virtuosity, time sig, themes, and the combo of those. That's what I mean by difficult to compose

I remember JP saying at the time of TOT’s release that they loved how amped the crowd would get for a song like The Glass Prison so they decided to make an album full of those songs.  Weirdly, I’m not sure if they ever played The Glass Prison again!  If they did, it’s very rare.

Oh yea, that's what I was referring to. Makes a lot of sense

[lonestar]

bosk, my attention to detail especially on this side of the forum is usually pretty crap, but I had no idea you knew the DT guys!  What's your affiliation?

 

[lovethedrake]

I think a lot of this boils down to the type of metal JP loves.   I feel like up until SDOIT dream theater always had a little hair metal and AOR vibe in addition to the metallica dark vibe. 

I really miss that side of them… which is why I loved out of reach as it reminds me of an 80’s ballad.

Hair metal isn’t my favorite genre by any means but it worked for dream theater with the soaring vocals and 80’s/90’s production.  When they stripped the hair metal and went more Nu metal that is when they went down a path I didn’t love.

While ADTOE went more melodic it still didn’t have that 80’s vibe that they used to have.   I think they brought a lot of that back on DOT and even had a Van Halen inspired bonus track.

So count of Tuscany…. I love it but I don’t love Labrie on it… he’s still doing the Hetfield thing and not the over the top vocals I fell in love with.  When you listen to disc two of BC&SL it makes you realize that James still had the chops but it was a conscious decision by the band to sing in a more modern way.   Was smart for album sales and to avoid sounding dated but it wasn’t my favorite stuff. 

I used to describe them as Styx meets Metallica and that description drifted further from accuracy until the self titled started to bring that back imo.   ADTOE still doesn’t feel that way to me.

[wolfking]

bosk, my attention to detail especially on this side of the forum is usually pretty crap, but I had no idea you knew the DT guys!  What's your affiliation?

Yes?

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

bosk, my attention to detail especially on this side of the forum is usually pretty crap, but I had no idea you knew the DT guys!  What's your affiliation?

Yes?

That was going to be my response 

[LKap13]

To 3, I'm taking complexity. Octavarium is a ridiculously complex song. To me it's the most complex song in the rock genre. I'm talking melody, sections, instrumentation, virtuosity, time sig, themes, and the combo of those. That's what I mean by difficult to compose

Meh, Illumination Theory blows Octavarium out of the water in terms of ordered complexity but I don't want to go down that road again and derail the thread. If they do an album full of Octavariums, I am pretty sure I will listen to it but not the way I binge listen (to this day) Distance Over Time, with songs that are complex without being excessive. And as somebody who has done a fair amount of composing (albeit in a very different genre), it takes much more effort to compose a complex song that is short than one that is quite indulgent.

On topic, I once shared that I heard my 8-year old son humming the outro guitar solo of The Alien. Well, yesterday, I heard him AND MY 5-year old daughter humming along to the keyboard melody of the intro of Invisible Monster.  From my experience playing music, children actually are much better barometers of the melodic hook of a song than us old farts. 

Has there been a thread about this? Would love to see it. I can't imagine how illumination theory is more complex than 8vn

[Nekov]

bosk, my attention to detail especially on this side of the forum is usually pretty crap, but I had no idea you knew the DT guys!  What's your affiliation?

  I almost burst into tears laughing. Why is that an emote?

[bosk1]

bosk, my attention to detail especially on this side of the forum is usually pretty crap, but I had no idea you knew the DT guys!  What's your affiliation?

Yes?

And also: 

But mostly: 

I know the band and a lot of their touring, management, and marketing team because of my work here.  I know all of the band members, but typically communicate with JP. 

[bosk1]

Why is that an emote?

Because I couldn't remember my Imgur password, and it was easier to just upload it into the emotes folder here. 

[Nekov]

When Laziness and Power Unite

[T-ski]

Why is that an emote?

Because I couldn't remember my Imgur password, and it was easier to just upload it into the emotes folder here. 

Wait, there’s an emotes folder on this site? Like outside the thirty or so on the reply page?

[bosk1]

Oh, yes.  There are many, MANY hidden emoticons.  For example:

[T-ski]

Oh, yes.  There are many, MANY hidden emoticons.  For example:

How am I just learning about this now? I feel like an outsider. Do you need special permission to know these secrets?