Invisible Monster Thread ! ALL SPOILERS !

[TAC]

Will be checking out BTBAM

They are incredible.

Start with Voice of Trespass

That's not one of their albums listed on wiki. I thought I'd start at the beginning.

[LKap13]

This thread is about The Monster by Rihanna right??

[Glasser]

Clearly this is all DT has to offer. Do you remember how blown away they were when they completed the recording and JP and JR had a conversation on how special they felt on what they had created?

A longtime friend and I have had a running joke for decades about artists gushing over their newest album or song.  "This is our best album ever!"  I mean, what else are they supposed to say?  "Well, it's not our best work, but it's the best we had, so please buy it!" 

Now, this is not meant to imply that artists are lying, as I am sure many do feel at the time that their newest work is (one of) their best, especially when it is so fresh after having just written and recorded it, and it's great when DT or other artists express great satisfaction in their latest work, but I am just saying, comments like that need to be taken with a grain of salt.

That was supposed to be my point. They did the best they could and are completely excited about it.

is DT15 better than Distance Over Time to you?

Yes, and I really like DoT!

[lonestar]

Will be checking out BTBAM

They are incredible.

Start with Voice of Trespass

That's not one of their albums listed on wiki. I thought I'd start at the beginning.

Oh, it's a song off Automata II

[lucasembarbosa]

Not wanting to derail much more the thread, but I recommend Automata I and II and Coma Ecliptic for those who are not very fond of the harsh vocals and drums. And Astral Body from Parallax II (first song I listened to)

As of Invisible Monster, it's definitely good! Not so surprising as The Alien, but it's still very good.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Will be checking out BTBAM

They are incredible.

Start with Voice of Trespass

That's not one of their albums listed on wiki. I thought I'd start at the beginning.

Just taking your tastes in to account, don't start at the beginning. Start with Colors or The Great Misdirect.

[Dream Team]

If you're dating one of the sexiest females on the planet who gives an amazing blow job are you going to all of a sudden dump her if she doesn't swallow twice?

No, but I would consider dumping someone who calls women "females".

I deeply apologize if I offended you or anyone else, it was a childish attempt to be funny 

It's ok.

Exaggeration aside, I don't think it's that big of a deal (especially as a one-off thing). I just find it odd, & would maybe find it a bit more suspect if you didn't seem like a reasonable person in your other posts.

I’m confused . . . what is Glasser apologizing for? The off-color part or the fact that he used the word “female”? If the latter, is that word now considered a slur?

[IDontNotDoThings]

If you're dating one of the sexiest females on the planet who gives an amazing blow job are you going to all of a sudden dump her if she doesn't swallow twice?

No, but I would consider dumping someone who calls women "females".

I deeply apologize if I offended you or anyone else, it was a childish attempt to be funny 

It's ok.

Exaggeration aside, I don't think it's that big of a deal (especially as a one-off thing). I just find it odd, & would maybe find it a bit more suspect if you didn't seem like a reasonable person in your other posts.

I’m confused . . . what is Glasser apologizing for? The off-color part or the fact that he used the word “female”? If the latter, is that word now considered a slur?

Not a slur, but using an adjective as a noun does come off slightly more degrading, in the same way that saying "black people" is more politically correct than "blacks". "Females" also has a bit of a reputation for being used by sexist people on the internet. Glasser isn't one of them, but that's what my joke was referencing.

Like I said though: in an innocuous context, the word isn't a big deal. I was just being a dick for the lols.

[rab7]

If you're dating one of the sexiest females on the planet who gives an amazing blow job are you going to all of a sudden dump her if she doesn't swallow twice?

No, but I would consider dumping someone who calls women "females".

I deeply apologize if I offended you or anyone else, it was a childish attempt to be funny 

It's ok.

Exaggeration aside, I don't think it's that big of a deal (especially as a one-off thing). I just find it odd, & would maybe find it a bit more suspect if you didn't seem like a reasonable person in your other posts.

I’m confused . . . what is Glasser apologizing for? The off-color part or the fact that he used the word “female”? If the latter, is that word now considered a slur?

No, just that lately the people who refer to women as "females" are highly correlated with the misogynistic incel types. Not saying that the word itself is misogynistic in a vacuum, but it's become associated with those types of people

That said, I didn't even realize Glasser said it until someone pointed it out because from his other posts, I have no reason to see him as an unsavory person

[geeeemo]

I'm a female and really don't care one way or the other, as long as it's not a "b" or a "c" word. So many better things to put my mind on.

[HOF]

I have nothing to add other than the song did not inspire a strong reaction from me one way or the other.

[Glasser]

If you're dating one of the sexiest females on the planet who gives an amazing blow job are you going to all of a sudden dump her if she doesn't swallow twice?

No, but I would consider dumping someone who calls women "females".

I deeply apologize if I offended you or anyone else, it was a childish attempt to be funny 

It's ok.

Exaggeration aside, I don't think it's that big of a deal (especially as a one-off thing). I just find it odd, & would maybe find it a bit more suspect if you didn't seem like a reasonable person in your other posts.

I’m confused . . . what is Glasser apologizing for? The off-color part or the fact that he used the word “female”? If the latter, is that word now considered a slur?

For the off color content. Female was not meant to be a slur. I truly didn’t mean to offend anyone.

[DTwwbwMP]

I'm a female and really don't care one way or the other, as long as it's not a "b" or a "c" word. So many better things to put my mind on.

THANKYOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unfortunately YOU are in the vast MINORITY when it comes to this kind of stuff. BUT, YOU have my respect (for whatever that's worth - LOL)

[jayvee3]

What’s interesting, is that I listened to IM a couple of times. Personally, I enjoyed it, not as much as the Alien, but thought it was a reasonable and pretty straightforward track. I also completely understand those that felt it underwhelming. In any case, I was just gonna have the couple of listens and leave it there till the album release.

Then, in my car, I said, “bugger it, once more won’t hurt” and I listened to it back to back with The Alien. I don’t know if was because it was in similar context, if it started clicking a bit more etc., but I thoroughly enjoyed it, and really look forward to the album. Again, I won’t overdo it, but just was really taken by surprise how much more I enjoyed it with that listen. Take that for what it’s worth.

[bosk1]

If they released Awaken The Master as the only single I think you all would be feeling much more positive about the album overall.

Tastes being subjective and all, but I prefer IM over Awaken the Master by a large margin.  And I don't dislike ATM at all.  I just like IM a lot. 

[jayvee3]

If you're dating one of the sexiest females on the planet who gives an amazing blow job are you going to all of a sudden dump her if she doesn't swallow twice?

No, but I would consider dumping someone who calls women "females".

I deeply apologize if I offended you or anyone else, it was a childish attempt to be funny 

It's ok.

Exaggeration aside, I don't think it's that big of a deal (especially as a one-off thing). I just find it odd, & would maybe find it a bit more suspect if you didn't seem like a reasonable person in your other posts.

I’m confused . . . what is Glasser apologizing for? The off-color part or the fact that he used the word “female”? If the latter, is that word now considered a slur?

No, just that lately the people who refer to women as "females" are highly correlated with the misogynistic incel types. Not saying that the word itself is misogynistic in a vacuum, but it's become associated with those types of people

That said, I didn't even realize Glasser said it until someone pointed it out because from his other posts, I have no reason to see him as an unsavory person

Perhaps it’s just me, but I’m completely confused…

[erwinrafael]

If they released Awaken The Master as the only single I think you all would be feeling much more positive about the album overall.

Tastes being subjective and all, but I prefer IM over Awaken the Master by a large margin.  And I don't dislike ATM at all.  I just like IM a lot.

In the same way that you really love Behind The Veil, I guess?

[bosk1]

To address the criticism, and the "balance" issue just a bit:

This comes up every time there is something new.  And, basically, I allow discussion to be pretty free here.  People are certainly entitled to have their opinions of DT material.  And, perhaps moreso than way back in the days of the official forum, people are entitled to express those opinions, whether positive or negative.  They just need to be expressed in a respectful way.  And, in my opinion as the guy who has the final say on the rules, I think that is the healthiest approach.  I've been around and around this issue with most of the band members, and my philosophy is that it is best to let people discuss freely, within certain bounds.  And since I feel that DT is pretty consistent about putting out quality music that they have taken their time to thoughtfully construct, I think that even the negative opinions are beneficial to them, because those opinions invite discussion that, on balance, ends up ultimately being constructive.

But do some comments cross the line?  Yeah.  I think some do, even if we let them go and don't say anything.  Keep in mind that the goal isn't "It's just my opinion, and I'm just telling the truth."  Opinions can be offered using tact and diplomacy, and some of you lack that.  As was rightly pointed out, making music is a job for these guys, and sometimes people on a job don't always put out a 100% airtight, top-quality product.  But by the same token, this is art, and the DT guys are artists.  They pour themselves into their art, and present it to us, the fans, as something for us to enjoy.  If your kid made poured him/herself into a piece of art and gave it to you, and you said, "Meh, this is dull and uninspired," my opinion is that you seriously lack tact and understanding and should check yourself.  I think we make the mistake of forgetting that this music is a labor of love presented as a gift to the fans, and I think the reasons we forget (or simply discount that fact) is that the band members are semi-public figures and make a profit from selling their art.  But I think we would do well to remember the human side that I mentioned a couple of lines above. 

Anyhow, bottom line is, as long as the discussion stays relatively respectful, which it largely does, the mods and I will not interfere.  Feel free to like or dislike what suits your tastes.  Discuss away.  But try to keep it within reasonable bounds.

[bosk1]

If they released Awaken The Master as the only single I think you all would be feeling much more positive about the album overall.

Tastes being subjective and all, but I prefer IM over Awaken the Master by a large margin.  And I don't dislike ATM at all.  I just like IM a lot.

In the same way that you really love Behind The Veil, I guess?

Mmmm...not sure what you mean by that.  I do love Behind the Veil though. 

[NoFred]

Liking this one, maybe could’ve gotten weirder after the solo instead of the clean wrap up, but a solid one that I’m guessing fits in on the album really well.

[geeeemo]

I'm a female and really don't care one way or the other, as long as it's not a "b" or a "c" word. So many better things to put my mind on.

THANKYOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unfortunately YOU are in the vast MINORITY when it comes to this kind of stuff. BUT, YOU have my respect (for whatever that's worth - LOL)

Hope to see you a show sometime!

[erwinrafael]

If they released Awaken The Master as the only single I think you all would be feeling much more positive about the album overall.

Tastes being subjective and all, but I prefer IM over Awaken the Master by a large margin.  And I don't dislike ATM at all.  I just like IM a lot.

In the same way that you really love Behind The Veil, I guess?

Mmmm...not sure what you mean by that.  I do love Behind the Veil though.

Oh, I meant that in a posiive way! I just remembered you saying you love BTV and I sort of can imagine why you like IM.

[geeeemo]

I listened today to The Alien, then IM. It was great!. It made The Alien go up another notch! And then right into that eerie intro...I am starting to get that "feeling"  about the album! (Lol, I almost always do anyway).
Personally, I like to listen to the songs I know they will play at the concert and get to know them well. I want to have had that "growing" time, so I can feel that joy of Dream Theater music amplified by the live experience.

[bosk1]

No worries, I didn't think you meant it negatively.  I just didn't understand exactly what you were getting at.  BTV is such a nice mix of heavy and melody.  JP is such a master of sinister riffs.  BTV is a good example of a song where the riffs definitely fit into that category, but don't stray too far into that area to make the song unduly dark. 

[Ben_Jamin]

I listened today to The Alien, then IM. It was great!. It made The Alien go up another notch! And then right into that eerie intro...I am starting to get that "feeling"  about the album! (Lol, I almost always do anyway).
Personally, I like to listen to the songs I know they will play at the concert and get to know them well. I want to have had that "growing" time, so I can feel that joy of Dream Theater music amplified by the live experience.

Me too...I only have 6 days to get familiar with the songs before I see them live. So I'll likely just be listening to this album for the week it's released. 

It's actually a reason why I decided to just listen to the released songs as much as I can without over listening to it, like maybe a couple times a week...

[BeatriceNB]

Enjoyable song, fun parts, and a nice contrast to The Alien. And damn that harmonic minor unison in the solo, simple and effective.

[Dedalus]

Enjoyable song, fun parts, and a nice contrast to The Alien. And damn that harmonic minor unison in the solo, simple and effective.

Best part IMO.

[Zydar]

My first post here on the DT side in weeks. I've listened to the song twice now and it's alright, I enjoy it much better than The Alien though. I'm not blown away by either songs.

Can't say I'm super hyped about the new album, but that's probably because my interest in the band has waned significantly in the last few years.

[Peter Mc]

If they released Awaken The Master as the only single I think you all would be feeling much more positive about the album overall.

Tastes being subjective and all, but I prefer IM over Awaken the Master by a large margin.  And I don't dislike ATM at all.  I just like IM a lot.

In the same way that you really love Behind The Veil, I guess?

Mmmm...not sure what you mean by that.  I do love Behind the Veil though.

Wait a minute, do people not like Behind The Veil?  That’s a really cool song.

[lovethedrake]

Just gave it a second listen and actually really like it,  felt more like 90’s dream theater which is a good thing to me. 

If Labrie was singing in the same registers he used to… I think that would solve a lot of the “boring” issues people have.   

Petrucci slays this song though, it’s catchy, and the bridge and solo are good.

I’m super excited for the album as I like both the alien and IM.

[Architeuthis]

BTV is such a nice mix of heavy and melody.  JP is such a master of sinister riffs.  BTV is a good example of a song where the riffs definitely fit into that category, but don't stray too far into that area to make the song unduly dark.

Also to expand on that, the guitar solo is right up there with the one from UAGM. 

[wolfking]

Will be checking out BTBAM

They are incredible.

Start with Voice of Trespass

That's not one of their albums listed on wiki. I thought I'd start at the beginning.

Don't do that.  Colors, or Parallax 1 and 2.  Starting from the start won't go well.

[Hanz Gruber]

Well... the song itself is not bad.... but the melodies certain are.
DT REALLY needs to focus on vocal melodies.
That's what really makes a song be good or bad.... and that's the reason we are discussing it.... THEY NEED TO FIX IT!!!!
As example, the new Iron Maiden album: Its the same notes, same strutures, but the vocal melodies makes the album shine.

The vocal melodies are fine. Why do they need to focus on melodies to fit your model of what Dream Theater vocals should be?

JLB can not sing high notes that well anymore live and I feel they took that into account when making the vocal melodies for the song.

Also, you have to incorporate the lyrics and words into the singing style JLB is using. The song is titled "Invisible Monster" and it's like his voice being not high and loud and more lower and subdued makes it sound like he is the Invisible Monster under the bed.

You fans really crack me up.

What's so boring, disappointing, about the song that did not meet your expectations?

I just listened to it again hoping for some improvement.  Nope, this is lame, what a fucking disappointment.

"Yes, Mr. Sherman, everything stinks."

Here's one question....Why do you find it to be lame and a disappointment? What makes something "lame" and "disappointing"?

I mentioned my thoughts on why I feel the way I do earlier mate.  Seems others somewhat agree.  I guess to you we should just accept and fawn over whatever the band do because it's DT? 

You fans crack me up too.

It does get repetitive though when no one explains why they chose to use those words to describe the song.

But I do not know what people are expecting and what they expect from Dream Theater. That's why I find fans of anything hilarious because they tend to feel forsaken if whatever they're fans of does something totally different from their expectations or doesn't meet the high standards of those expectations.

It's fascinating, how fans can do this.

It's gets repetitive also when fans suck the bands dick no matter what they release.  Adami is right, you explain to me why it's so awesome.  Why do negative comments have to be justified but positive ones don't?

I'm allowed to not like it.  And I've been a fan since I was 16 so don't look down on someone just because you don't agree with their opinion on a song pal.

What do I want from them?  A song that is inspired, something with energy and something that sounds like the band giving a shit and not going through the motions.  Something more melodically enticing too.

Not liking it is totally fine. I myself didn't like Paralyzed when D/T came out, and I'm happy they replaced it with FITL when they came to my city. Now, to say that the song is uninspired, and sounds like it the band is going through the motions and not giving a shit sounds to me like a way of saying:

 "I am unispired when I listen to it. I'm going through the motions when I listen to it. I don't give a shit about it"

I'm sure the band didn't feel this way when writing the song otherwise it wouldn't have made it to the album.

Alright, I'll bite.

The band perhaps didn't feel like they were going through the motions when they wrote and recorded this song, but therein lies the problem (at least for people like myself or Wolfking or Elite). From an outside perspective it sure as hell sounds like they are going through the motions just to pump out a song. Which is why it sounds uninspired and like they stopped caring about writing captivating music that excites the listener. They need an outside listener (aka a real producer) to reign them in and at the same time force them to push in new directions, try new things (and I don't mean pull a 180 and write a country album (although Devin Townsend did that and it was amazing)). The band is basically writing and recording in a musical echo chamber at this point.

I'll provide two examples: First, I was listening to my music library on shuffle today while driving and Lie came on. Now that is (still) an exciting song to listen to. It has interesting arrangements, slick solos, great vocal melodies that make you want to sing along. What an awesome song! And basically every song on Awake (once I thought about it) is just as interesting. Invisible Monster gave me none of that excitement, even on subsequent listens.

Second: a great example of a band that can excite with every album is Between the Buried and Me. Whenever they release a new album you just know it will be chock full of exciting and surprising twists and turns, while still being melodic and memorable. When I listened to their new Colors II album that was just released for the first time I had the biggest grin on my face throughout the entire hour+ runtime. The 2 new DT songs had me falling asleep part way in...

Granted, if people like the new songs, that's fine. We are all entitled to like or not like whatever we want, but people are asking for why we don't like the new songs, so I figured I'd jump in with an explanation....

Also, I do acknowledge that DT tried something new with The Astonishing and I was on board with it for a while, but it didn't age well for me. However I do give them props for trying something different there. However, DT12 and D/T both fell flat for me.

Exactly.  Lie is a great example. It always sounds fresh and energetic to me.  It isn't a long song by DT standards but is catchy (same with 6:00 from the same album)  It just seems like writing the vocal parts on Invisible Monster and even The Alien were afterthoughts. The vocal melodies are not memorable and feel forced in (even though I think James sounds good) Kind of how I feel about the new Maiden album honestly.  I did like the first two lines of Invisible Monster until the line about the Serpent Tail wrapping around his poor neck.  The is when it started sounding like a a B-side to me.  I really wanted to like it...it just feels off

[Hanz Gruber]

If they released Awaken The Master as the only single I think you all would be feeling much more positive about the album overall.

Tastes being subjective and all, but I prefer IM over Awaken the Master by a large margin.  And I don't dislike ATM at all.  I just like IM a lot.

What are your top 3 songs from the new album?

[hefdaddy42]

Wait a minute, do people not like Behind The Veil?  That’s a really cool song.

Some do, and some don't.  Others think it's just kind of OK.

You know, like every other DT song.

a MEDLEY would have been better!!!!! 

A medley is almost never better.

I personally have a little constrained feelings about that song. It's nice, so nice, melodic, but so simple, so predictable with tons of  'dt heard moments before'
Middle section somewhere between 2,20' and 3' is pretty good.
Production/sound is on high level.

I hope it'll work like UA on DoT to me, my least favourite song on it.

Vlasto!  It's been so long!  I feel like a celebration is almost in order!

We'll think of something.