Invisible Monster Thread ! ALL SPOILERS !

[Architeuthis]

After a few more spins, I think it's a just OK tune and I stand by my criticism that it feels like it snakes around and doesn't go anywhere, and that the vocal melodies (chorus especially, where the harmonic choices are a bit odd) are weak.

Not sure how this song would work in a live setting....seems like something you play during intermission.

I think it would translate quite well live, and I hope they play it loud and proud! 

[wolfking]

Well... the song itself is not bad.... but the melodies certain are.
DT REALLY needs to focus on vocal melodies.
That's what really makes a song be good or bad.... and that's the reason we are discussing it.... THEY NEED TO FIX IT!!!!
As example, the new Iron Maiden album: Its the same notes, same strutures, but the vocal melodies makes the album shine.

The vocal melodies are fine. Why do they need to focus on melodies to fit your model of what Dream Theater vocals should be?

JLB can not sing high notes that well anymore live and I feel they took that into account when making the vocal melodies for the song.

Also, you have to incorporate the lyrics and words into the singing style JLB is using. The song is titled "Invisible Monster" and it's like his voice being not high and loud and more lower and subdued makes it sound like he is the Invisible Monster under the bed.

You fans really crack me up.

What's so boring, disappointing, about the song that did not meet your expectations?

I just listened to it again hoping for some improvement.  Nope, this is lame, what a fucking disappointment.

"Yes, Mr. Sherman, everything stinks."

Here's one question....Why do you find it to be lame and a disappointment? What makes something "lame" and "disappointing"?

I mentioned my thoughts on why I feel the way I do earlier mate.  Seems others somewhat agree.  I guess to you we should just accept and fawn over whatever the band do because it's DT? 

You fans crack me up too.

It does get repetitive though when no one explains why they chose to use those words to describe the song.

But I do not know what people are expecting and what they expect from Dream Theater. That's why I find fans of anything hilarious because they tend to feel forsaken if whatever they're fans of does something totally different from their expectations or doesn't meet the high standards of those expectations.

It's fascinating, how fans can do this.

It's gets repetitive also when fans suck the bands dick no matter what they release.  Adami is right, you explain to me why it's so awesome.  Why do negative comments have to be justified but positive ones don't?

I'm allowed to not like it.  And I've been a fan since I was 16 so don't look down on someone just because you don't agree with their opinion on a song pal.

What do I want from them?  A song that is inspired, something with energy and something that sounds like the band giving a shit and not going through the motions.  Something more melodically enticing too.

[Vlasto]

I personally have a little constrained feelings about that song. It's nice, so nice, melodic, but so simple, so predictable with tons of  'dt heard moments before'
Middle section somewhere between 2,20' and 3' is pretty good.
Production/sound is on high level.

I hope it'll work like UA on DoT to me, my least favourite song on it.

[genome]

Weird how people see things so differently, but that's opinions for you. I really liked this one. Some interesting harmony, JLB is right in his comfort zone (which is a good thing for me), nice chorus, and the song is well written as it's exactly as long as it needs to be and is not overwrought.

It actually felt pretty fresh to me and it clicked with me far quicker than The Alien did.

[Skeever]

I enjoyed it quite a bit more than The Alien, which has still not really connected for me.
Good, straightforward rocker, with just enough spice in both the playing and the textural stuff. Reminds me of A Right of Passage but with stronger melodies (for me), or Pull Me Under (though slightly less catchy).

[Dedalus]

It's gets repetitive also when fans suck the bands dick no matter what they release.  Adami is right, you explain to me why it's so awesome.  Why do negative comments have to be justified but positive ones don't?

I'm allowed to not like it.  And I've been a fan since I was 16 so don't look down on someone just because you don't agree with their opinion on a song pal.

What do I want from them?  A song that is inspired, something with energy and something that sounds like the band giving a shit and not going through the motions.  Something more melodically enticing too.

Wait, they don't give a shit about their music? Wow....

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I don't dislike the song by any means, but it didn't knock my socks off and take ownership of my soul either. I'm curious to hear how it sounds within the context of the entire album. By itself, it's fine, but I could totally see it sounding stronger in the right context.

One thing I will say is that the band is between a rock and a hard place. Only two albums ago, they released potentially the weirdest album of their career, and a lot of fans got mad because it was too different. Now they're receiving criticism for playing it a bit too safe. It's a tough balancing act to pull off this deep into a career.

Well it depends, are the critics of one approach also critizing the other? (name by name that is) - if that's the case I agree with you. If we are talking based on various opinions then it's the classic "you can't please everyone" scenario. I think it's more of the latter. It's easier/more common to voice negativity online IMO (not that there is anything wrong with not liking the song).

I think we're basically on the same page. It's true that you can't please everyone. I do think, however, that with Dream Theater, they're under a little extra pressure because their fanbase is so passionate.

[WilliamMunny]

Alright, now that I’ve had a few listens to digest this, I can honestly say, given then tone on this thread, I’ve gone from pleasantly surprised to totally impressed with this song.

Random thoughts:

—overall, this song reminds me a lot of ‘Paralyzed’ in that it’s a tight, concise rocker with an incredibly strong chorus.

—both the first and second verse have super interesting vocal melodies.

—speaking of verses, there’s one line in particular, about three quarters through the second verse, that totally catches my ear in the same way the “dreams are shaking set sirens waking” line from ‘Surrounded’ does... I love when a vocal line totally goes unison with a guitar line.

—as others have mentioned, this just cements that this record is going to ‘sound’ amazing

—I really dig the Mangini fill that opens the track

—JP’s solo, especially the classical sounding portion, is pretty awesome. The man never ceases to amaze

—James sounds great here. I love how full his voice sounds on both of these tracks

—finally, based on its placement, I really think that this song is going to serve as a nice ‘breather’

All in all, the song has me all the more excited for the record, so I consider it a success on all fronts.

[Ben_Jamin]

This song reminds me of Burning My Soul, which is one song I would consider if I were to be frank about it, boring.

But, I also do enjoy Burning My Soul from time to time and I think it's an excellent live song. I would also hope that this song will sound way better live than the studio, which is how I felt about Paralyzed, a song from D/T I don't listen to often.

[LKap13]

After listening to it again, I actually think the music is good, but the vocal timbre, volume and verse melody is what makes me not like the song

[Elite]

One listen in (just now) and this might seriously be one of the most boring, lifeless DT tracks ever.

[LKap13]

oh also totally just got the Queensryche call ... Operation Mindcrime!

[Kotowboy]

I have a question that I might have asked before.

I'm seeing a decent amount of reactions to negative, or at least not-positive reviews of stuff here. Such as asking the person to go into detail about what EXACTLY they didn't like about the song, or to dismiss the opinion entirely because "people on the internet" and so forth.

Does this apply to positive reviews too? Does the person that says "This song is awesome!" have to then go into exactly what they loved about it? Do their biases get called into question? It seems that if you're not on the same page as people (such as myself) who didn't like the song (or other things), then there's a tendency to dismiss that person's opinion as not legitimate. I'm not sure that's fair.

I have always noticed this trend online in general. If you love something - people want an essay on why - and try to change your mind.

If you hate something - that's fine.

[dparrott]

I dig it...the intro delay, the main riff, the fast part, the breakdown, sounds fine to me!

[wolfking]

One listen in (just now) and this might seriously be one of the most boring, lifeless DT tracks ever.

How dare you!

[Metro]

That was the most OK Dream Theater song I have ever heard.

[KevShmev]

I do think the negative reactions here are unjustifiably overblown and sometimes not well articulated. As a fan who comes to this forum to share in the excitement for a new DT album, it's quite off-putting to see fans being so negative. But then again, everyone has the right to express their opinion, and it sure as hell doesn't impact mine. I still love DT and all 5 members, and am very excited for this next album.

I get what you are saying, but this is not a FB fan page where any and all criticism is shut down and deleted.    We Dream Theater fans are usually pretty open about our opinions on their music. If we love it, we will gush about it.  If we do not it, we will say it.  Gotta take the good with the bad.

[wolfking]

I do think the negative reactions here are unjustifiably overblown and sometimes not well articulated. As a fan who comes to this forum to share in the excitement for a new DT album, it's quite off-putting to see fans being so negative. But then again, everyone has the right to express their opinion, and it sure as hell doesn't impact mine. I still love DT and all 5 members, and am very excited for this next album.

I get what you are saying, but this is not a FB fan page where any and all criticism is shut down and deleted.    We Dream Theater fans are usually pretty open about our opinions on their music. If we love it, we will gush about it.  If we do not it, we will say it.  Gotta take the good with the bad.

This.  I don't know why people here are shocked with some negative options on it.

[LKap13]

I do think the negative reactions here are unjustifiably overblown and sometimes not well articulated. As a fan who comes to this forum to share in the excitement for a new DT album, it's quite off-putting to see fans being so negative. But then again, everyone has the right to express their opinion, and it sure as hell doesn't impact mine. I still love DT and all 5 members, and am very excited for this next album.

I get what you are saying, but this is not a FB fan page where any and all criticism is shut down and deleted.    We Dream Theater fans are usually pretty open about our opinions on their music. If we love it, we will gush about it.  If we do not it, we will say it.  Gotta take the good with the bad.

I wonder if this is unique to dt. Incidentally I remember looking a few years back and on first approximation dt has the most active forum of any modern band. If someone knows otherwise please let me know. It would make good sense though...

[Sebastián Pratesi]

Anyone else pictures James singing "Big Chungus" at the end of the second chorus? About halfway through the song.

[Mr.Mister]

Well... the song itself is not bad.... but the melodies certain are.
DT REALLY needs to focus on vocal melodies.
That's what really makes a song be good or bad.... and that's the reason we are discussing it.... THEY NEED TO FIX IT!!!!
As example, the new Iron Maiden album: Its the same notes, same strutures, but the vocal melodies makes the album shine.

The vocal melodies are fine. Why do they need to focus on melodies to fit your model of what Dream Theater vocals should be?

JLB can not sing high notes that well anymore live and I feel they took that into account when making the vocal melodies for the song.

Also, you have to incorporate the lyrics and words into the singing style JLB is using. The song is titled "Invisible Monster" and it's like his voice being not high and loud and more lower and subdued makes it sound like he is the Invisible Monster under the bed.

You fans really crack me up.

What's so boring, disappointing, about the song that did not meet your expectations?

I just listened to it again hoping for some improvement.  Nope, this is lame, what a fucking disappointment.

"Yes, Mr. Sherman, everything stinks."

Here's one question....Why do you find it to be lame and a disappointment? What makes something "lame" and "disappointing"?

I mentioned my thoughts on why I feel the way I do earlier mate.  Seems others somewhat agree.  I guess to you we should just accept and fawn over whatever the band do because it's DT? 

You fans crack me up too.

It does get repetitive though when no one explains why they chose to use those words to describe the song.

But I do not know what people are expecting and what they expect from Dream Theater. That's why I find fans of anything hilarious because they tend to feel forsaken if whatever they're fans of does something totally different from their expectations or doesn't meet the high standards of those expectations.

It's fascinating, how fans can do this.

It's gets repetitive also when fans suck the bands dick no matter what they release.  Adami is right, you explain to me why it's so awesome.  Why do negative comments have to be justified but positive ones don't?

I'm allowed to not like it.  And I've been a fan since I was 16 so don't look down on someone just because you don't agree with their opinion on a song pal.

What do I want from them?  A song that is inspired, something with energy and something that sounds like the band giving a shit and not going through the motions.  Something more melodically enticing too.

Not liking it is totally fine. I myself didn't like Paralyzed when D/T came out, and I'm happy they replaced it with FITL when they came to my city. Now, to say that the song is uninspired, and sounds like it the band is going through the motions and not giving a shit sounds to me like a way of saying:

 "I am unispired when I listen to it. I'm going through the motions when I listen to it. I don't give a shit about it"

I'm sure the band didn't feel this way when writing the song otherwise it wouldn't have made it to the album.

[KevShmev]

I do think the negative reactions here are unjustifiably overblown and sometimes not well articulated. As a fan who comes to this forum to share in the excitement for a new DT album, it's quite off-putting to see fans being so negative. But then again, everyone has the right to express their opinion, and it sure as hell doesn't impact mine. I still love DT and all 5 members, and am very excited for this next album.

I get what you are saying, but this is not a FB fan page where any and all criticism is shut down and deleted.    We Dream Theater fans are usually pretty open about our opinions on their music. If we love it, we will gush about it.  If we do not it, we will say it.  Gotta take the good with the bad.

I wonder if this is unique to dt. Incidentally I remember looking a few years back and on first approximation dt has the most active forum of any modern band. If someone knows otherwise please let me know. It would make good sense though...

I can't explain it, but I think it helps that DT has a sound that appeals to rock fans from various circles.  Hard rock fans, prog fans, metal fans, math rock fans, etc.  Meanwhile, if you go to a Yes or Neal Morse forum, I would imagine 95% of the fans at them are predominantly prog fans.  If you go to a Metallica or Iron Maiden forum, most would likely be predominantly metal fans.  And so on and so forth.  All generally speaking of course.  Because of their sound and style, Dream Theater has managed to grab fans from many different areas.

[nikatapi]

I have to say that I've come around a bit with the song. It's quite fun with some interesting parts, and it's grown a bit after a few listens

[gzarruk]

Some words from JP on IM: “It was written after we’d written a bunch of material. A lot of the music was super energetic and upbeat, tempo-wise. [Drummer] Mike [Mangini] suggested we do something a little different though. So, we started working on a more mid-tempo song. The hook, riff, and melody changed so naturally. I equate it to ‘Pull Me Under’ back in the day where we’d just start playing, something would come out, and we’d be, like, ‘Whoa, that’s cool.’ There’s a serendipitous moment where it happens. Lyrically, it’s about how anxiety plagues people. It’s like there’s an invisible monster beating you. You don’t see it, but it’s haunting you all of the time.”

https://www.loadedradio.com/dream-theater-release-the-music-video-for-invisible-monster/

[wolfking]

People also forget that while music is the bands passion, it's also their job.  Not every piece of music every single band in the world puts out is a Picasso each time.  I'm sure they don't think that either.

We all have periods at work where we struggle and "go through the motions', what's different in a situation with a big band like DT?

They sound dull and lifeless here.  I'm sorry, that's my opinion.  I'm also dull and lifeless however.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I acknowledge the idea of listening to the song again in the context of the full album, which is allegedly much higher energy. Maybe that will change the way we hear it. It's just a very different mood from the Alien, and that very low key interview a few days ago did NOT help matters.

[gmillerdrake]

My largest fear is that this song is going to take a spot in the set list away from any of the other 40 plus songs I’d prefer to see and hear in its place. IMO this is not a song that is concert worthy.

[Glasser]

People also forget that while music is the bands passion, it's also their job.  Not every piece of music every single band in the world puts out is a Picasso each time.  I'm sure they don't think that either.

We all have periods at work where we struggle and "go through the motions', what's different in a situation with a big band like DT?

They sound dull and lifeless here.  I'm sorry, that's my opinion.  I'm also dull and lifeless however.

No one should ever have to defend any opinion. Some people dig it some don’t, tastes, opinions and expectations vary. However, what’s dull and lifeless to you is fully enjoyable to me. I never judge anyone on their opinion. I’m sure you want to like it but it doesn’t do anything for you. This forum would be phony and boring if EVERYONE agreed on everything. 

[LKap13]

Other than raw dog this has to be the poorest reception a new dt song has gotten in recent memory. Very interesting. I'm still 100% hopeful about the album. I expect it will be better than dot

[PixelDream]

I can see why the track can feel lifeless, the first time it went by almost unnoticed, track didn’t impress right away. But I do think the song’s instrumental theme is totally killer. Love that vibe.

[Glasser]

My largest fear is that this song is going to take a spot in the set list away from any of the other 40 plus songs I’d prefer to see and hear in its place. IMO this is not a song that is concert worthy.

Your largest fear is someone else’s biggest hope.

[wolfking]

People also forget that while music is the bands passion, it's also their job.  Not every piece of music every single band in the world puts out is a Picasso each time.  I'm sure they don't think that either.

We all have periods at work where we struggle and "go through the motions', what's different in a situation with a big band like DT?

They sound dull and lifeless here.  I'm sorry, that's my opinion.  I'm also dull and lifeless however.

No one should ever have to defend any opinion. Some people dig it some don’t, tastes, opinions and expectations vary. However, what’s dull and lifeless to you is fully enjoyable to me. I never judge anyone on their opinion. I’m sure you want to like it but it doesn’t do anything for you. This forum would be phony and boring if EVERYONE agreed on everything. 

Thanks mate.  I'm glad people are liking it and I'm not judging anyone else for liking it either.  Of course I want to like it, but wasn't keen on the Alien either.

I'll see how it plays out in the album.  It might work a lot better.

[wolfking]

I acknowledge the idea of listening to the song again in the context of the full album, which is allegedly much higher energy. Maybe that will change the way we hear it. It's just a very different mood from the Alien, and that very low key interview a few days ago did NOT help matters.

While that probably shouldn't be a factor, I feel the same way.

[Glasser]

I acknowledge the idea of listening to the song again in the context of the full album, which is allegedly much higher energy. Maybe that will change the way we hear it. It's just a very different mood from the Alien, and that very low key interview a few days ago did NOT help matters.

While that probably shouldn't be a factor, I feel the same way.

Like I said before. I have seen the full movie without seeing a scene or trailer. I love it, but if you have only seen 2 scenes I understand why the movie isn’t doing it for you…… YET.

[Ben_Jamin]

Some words from JP on IM: “It was written after we’d written a bunch of material. A lot of the music was super energetic and upbeat, tempo-wise. [Drummer] Mike [Mangini] suggested we do something a little different though. So, we started working on a more mid-tempo song. The hook, riff, and melody changed so naturally. I equate it to ‘Pull Me Under’ back in the day where we’d just start playing, something would come out, and we’d be, like, ‘Whoa, that’s cool.’ There’s a serendipitous moment where it happens. Lyrically, it’s about how anxiety plagues people. It’s like there’s an invisible monster beating you. You don’t see it, but it’s haunting you all of the time.”

https://www.loadedradio.com/dream-theater-release-the-music-video-for-invisible-monster/

That's great to know, because the song does feel that sort of way with anxiety. It feels like it wants to be released and explore more, but something is preventing that from happening.