Invisible Monster Thread ! ALL SPOILERS !

[Architeuthis]

My largest fear is that this song is going to take a spot in the set list away from any of the other 40 plus songs I’d prefer to see and hear in its place. IMO this is not a song that is concert worthy.

Your largest fear is someone else’s biggest hope.

👏👏   

[geeeemo]

People also forget that while music is the bands passion, it's also their job.  Not every piece of music every single band in the world puts out is a Picasso each time.  I'm sure they don't think that either.

We all have periods at work where we struggle and "go through the motions', what's different in a situation with a big band like DT?

They sound dull and lifeless here.  I'm sorry, that's my opinion.  I'm also dull and lifeless however.

I am sorry you feel dull and lifeless.  Do you perhaps have an Invisible Monster?

Aside from that.  We were at a Megadeth concert recently and did the VIP. They sat there with microphones and answered questions. One was "how do you keep the material new, interesting and fresh after so long?" Mustaine says,  "I don't know, all the good riffs have been used."

[LKap13]

This might be true. Look at the progression of art over time... More and more abstract until it's just a blank canvas. Art always evolves and when the same form or medium is used there's less room for innovation of course

[Glasser]

Clearly this is all DT has to offer. Do you remember how blown away they were when they completed the recording and JP and JR had a conversation on how special they felt on what they had created?

[LKap13]

The alien is a masterpiece to my ears. They've still got it, and then some. The striking bit is when you listen to IM and alien back to back!

[lonestar]

After listening to it again, I actually think the music is good, but the vocal timbre, volume and verse melody is what makes me not like the song

I think that's what I'm feeling as well, does it sound like the lyrics and lyrical melodies were done by a 12 year old, it's just really simple and kind of stupid. As someone else said, it's so predictable.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Well... the song itself is not bad.... but the melodies certain are.
DT REALLY needs to focus on vocal melodies.
That's what really makes a song be good or bad.... and that's the reason we are discussing it.... THEY NEED TO FIX IT!!!!
As example, the new Iron Maiden album: Its the same notes, same strutures, but the vocal melodies makes the album shine.

The vocal melodies are fine. Why do they need to focus on melodies to fit your model of what Dream Theater vocals should be?

JLB can not sing high notes that well anymore live and I feel they took that into account when making the vocal melodies for the song.

Also, you have to incorporate the lyrics and words into the singing style JLB is using. The song is titled "Invisible Monster" and it's like his voice being not high and loud and more lower and subdued makes it sound like he is the Invisible Monster under the bed.

You fans really crack me up.

What's so boring, disappointing, about the song that did not meet your expectations?

I just listened to it again hoping for some improvement.  Nope, this is lame, what a fucking disappointment.

"Yes, Mr. Sherman, everything stinks."

Here's one question....Why do you find it to be lame and a disappointment? What makes something "lame" and "disappointing"?

I mentioned my thoughts on why I feel the way I do earlier mate.  Seems others somewhat agree.  I guess to you we should just accept and fawn over whatever the band do because it's DT? 

You fans crack me up too.

It does get repetitive though when no one explains why they chose to use those words to describe the song.

But I do not know what people are expecting and what they expect from Dream Theater. That's why I find fans of anything hilarious because they tend to feel forsaken if whatever they're fans of does something totally different from their expectations or doesn't meet the high standards of those expectations.

It's fascinating, how fans can do this.

It's gets repetitive also when fans suck the bands dick no matter what they release.  Adami is right, you explain to me why it's so awesome.  Why do negative comments have to be justified but positive ones don't?

I'm allowed to not like it.  And I've been a fan since I was 16 so don't look down on someone just because you don't agree with their opinion on a song pal.

What do I want from them?  A song that is inspired, something with energy and something that sounds like the band giving a shit and not going through the motions.  Something more melodically enticing too.

Not liking it is totally fine. I myself didn't like Paralyzed when D/T came out, and I'm happy they replaced it with FITL when they came to my city. Now, to say that the song is uninspired, and sounds like it the band is going through the motions and not giving a shit sounds to me like a way of saying:

 "I am unispired when I listen to it. I'm going through the motions when I listen to it. I don't give a shit about it"

I'm sure the band didn't feel this way when writing the song otherwise it wouldn't have made it to the album.

Alright, I'll bite.

The band perhaps didn't feel like they were going through the motions when they wrote and recorded this song, but therein lies the problem (at least for people like myself or Wolfking or Elite). From an outside perspective it sure as hell sounds like they are going through the motions just to pump out a song. Which is why it sounds uninspired and like they stopped caring about writing captivating music that excites the listener. They need an outside listener (aka a real producer) to reign them in and at the same time force them to push in new directions, try new things (and I don't mean pull a 180 and write a country album (although Devin Townsend did that and it was amazing)). The band is basically writing and recording in a musical echo chamber at this point.

I'll provide two examples: First, I was listening to my music library on shuffle today while driving and Lie came on. Now that is (still) an exciting song to listen to. It has interesting arrangements, slick solos, great vocal melodies that make you want to sing along. What an awesome song! And basically every song on Awake (once I thought about it) is just as interesting. Invisible Monster gave me none of that excitement, even on subsequent listens.

Second: a great example of a band that can excite with every album is Between the Buried and Me. Whenever they release a new album you just know it will be chock full of exciting and surprising twists and turns, while still being melodic and memorable. When I listened to their new Colors II album that was just released for the first time I had the biggest grin on my face throughout the entire hour+ runtime. The 2 new DT songs had me falling asleep part way in...

Granted, if people like the new songs, that's fine. We are all entitled to like or not like whatever we want, but people are asking for why we don't like the new songs, so I figured I'd jump in with an explanation....

Also, I do acknowledge that DT tried something new with The Astonishing and I was on board with it for a while, but it didn't age well for me. However I do give them props for trying something different there. However, DT12 and D/T both fell flat for me.

[LKap13]

Will be checking out BTBAM

[wolfking]

I acknowledge the idea of listening to the song again in the context of the full album, which is allegedly much higher energy. Maybe that will change the way we hear it. It's just a very different mood from the Alien, and that very low key interview a few days ago did NOT help matters.

While that probably shouldn't be a factor, I feel the same way.

Like I said before. I have seen the full movie without seeing a scene or trailer. I love it, but if you have only seen 2 scenes I understand why the movie isn’t doing it for you…… YET.

Your excitement for the album is one thing keeping me interested, so thank you.

[wolfking]

Puppies, brilliantly said, agree with every word.  Thanks for the back up too haha.

[darkshade]

What compounds the problem of my listening experience for this song is that the three times I played this song, a song from D/T autoplays after and I can't help but feel more excited with the D/T song. Will listen to my iTunes later.

I wish D/T had the production of DT15 because I love the album especially Surrender to Reason!

D/T = Distance over Time

Noob mistake, I though DoT was Distance over Time. 

It is. There is no ' / ' in the album title.

[Dedalus]

Disliking some music is no big deal. I can make a list of DT songs that I don't like or hate:

Lie, Just Let Me Breathe, Burning My Soul, You Not Me, all TOT (except Vacant), Sacrificed Sons, Forsaken, AROP, Dark Eternal Night, Repentance, Paralyzed etc.

What irritates a bit is this behavior "I don't like it so the band obviously has a problem".

[LKap13]

@Puppies_On_Acid

Apologies for off topic, but damn I see what you mean. Fix the Error

[IDontNotDoThings]

If you're dating one of the sexiest females on the planet who gives an amazing blow job are you going to all of a sudden dump her if she doesn't swallow twice?

No, but I would consider dumping someone who calls women "females".

I deeply apologize if I offended you or anyone else, it was a childish attempt to be funny 

It's ok.

Exaggeration aside, I don't think it's that big of a deal (especially as a one-off thing). I just find it odd, & would maybe find it a bit more suspect if you didn't seem like a reasonable person in your other posts.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

@Puppies_On_Acid

Apologies for off topic, but damn I see what you mean. Fix the Error

Oh boy, if you've never listened to BtBaM before, you are in for a hell of a ride. I kind of envy you 

[IDontNotDoThings]

I think this post is relevant to this thread

As for "less inspired", that's one of those phrases that feels like it should be struck from discussions around art to me. I get "boring", because tastes will be tastes and what satisfies one person could leave the other thoroughly bored. The matter of assuming an artist is inspired is contextual guesswork. I feel like it's invalid because there are plenty of examples where a band has actually struggled with ideas and really forced their material out, but all for an album that ended up actually being pretty well received. The reverse has also frequently happened. Maybe it's just me, but I think the matter of inspiration should only matter to the person working on it. It's always felt like a rather brazen assumption to make that someone was uninspired imo, because it just feels like someone projecting their personal dislike of something as a character fault on the person who created it. Needless to say, I feel the same way about using "lazy" as a criticism.

[gzarruk]

Disliking some music is no big deal. I can make a list of DT songs that I don't like or hate:

Lie, Just Let Me Breathe, Burning My Soul, You Not Me, all TOT (except Vacant), Sacrificed Sons, Forsaken, AROP, Dark Eternal Night, Repentance, Paralyzed etc.

What irritates a bit is this behavior "I don't like it so the band obviously has a problem".

This.

[LKap13]

Time for an IM vs AROP vs Paralyzed poll? 

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Time for an IM vs AROP vs Paralyzed poll? 

Can we get a 4th option? 

[Dedalus]

I just wanted to say that every time someone typed "IM" into this thread, my brain thought of Iron Maiden.   

[Peter Mc]

I’ve seen a few people ask why someone who likes something is not often asked to justify why they like it in the same way that someone who has a negative reaction is.

My take on that is this.  Dream Theater have produced a piece of art which is intended to be pleasing to the ears and for people to enjoy and we all (I hope) go into each release hoping to enjoy it.  If someone enjoys it, then it’s job done, that’s what it was made for.  Therefore there’s not really so much need to analyse it, that’s the intended result. 

Now, if someone doesn’t like it, then something has gone wrong as the song was intended to be enjoyable and that’s when we like to analyse why it didn’t work for that person and they often like to justify why they didn’t like it.  We all do it, me included, we can’t just accept it’s a subjective thing and a matter of personal taste, we have to try and justify why we don’t like it and point out the perceived flaws in the song.

That’s not to say that people who like things never explain why, they absolutely do.  Most people who like a song usually point out the things they like.  They don’t just give a thumbs up emoji and move on, they’ll say they love the production or the guitar solo or Mangini’s drums sound great or whatever.

[Peter Mc]

Time for an IM vs AROP vs Paralyzed poll? 

Why those 3?

[DTwwbwMP]

After listening to it again, I actually think the music is good, but the vocal timbre, volume and verse melody is what makes me not like the song

I think that's what I'm feeling as well, does it sound like the lyrics and lyrical melodies were done by a 12 year old, it's just really simple and kind of stupid. As someone else said, it's so predictable.

1000000000000000000000%

[wolfking]

Will be checking out BTBAM

They are incredible.

[Glasser]

I acknowledge the idea of listening to the song again in the context of the full album, which is allegedly much higher energy. Maybe that will change the way we hear it. It's just a very different mood from the Alien, and that very low key interview a few days ago did NOT help matters.

While that probably shouldn't be a factor, I feel the same way.

Like I said before. I have seen the full movie without seeing a scene or trailer. I love it, but if you have only seen 2 scenes I understand why the movie isn’t doing it for you…… YET.

Your excitement for the album is one thing keeping me interested, so thank you.

That’s great to hear! I just wholeheartedly feel the singles are getting dissected and looked at under a microscope because it’s all most people have to go by so it’s only human to feel these songs represent the album. When these songs are heard together I believe some negative opinions will change. The PR/ Label dropped the ball on promotion. I know now for a 100% fact that IM is the last single before release. A kick ass medley would have truly been the right move. It’s giving fans a false impression and honestly pissing me off. My advice would be to stop listening to the singles NOW and wait for the album.

[Mr.Mister]

Well... the song itself is not bad.... but the melodies certain are.
DT REALLY needs to focus on vocal melodies.
That's what really makes a song be good or bad.... and that's the reason we are discussing it.... THEY NEED TO FIX IT!!!!
As example, the new Iron Maiden album: Its the same notes, same strutures, but the vocal melodies makes the album shine.

The vocal melodies are fine. Why do they need to focus on melodies to fit your model of what Dream Theater vocals should be?

JLB can not sing high notes that well anymore live and I feel they took that into account when making the vocal melodies for the song.

Also, you have to incorporate the lyrics and words into the singing style JLB is using. The song is titled "Invisible Monster" and it's like his voice being not high and loud and more lower and subdued makes it sound like he is the Invisible Monster under the bed.

You fans really crack me up.

What's so boring, disappointing, about the song that did not meet your expectations?

I just listened to it again hoping for some improvement.  Nope, this is lame, what a fucking disappointment.

"Yes, Mr. Sherman, everything stinks."

Here's one question....Why do you find it to be lame and a disappointment? What makes something "lame" and "disappointing"?

I mentioned my thoughts on why I feel the way I do earlier mate.  Seems others somewhat agree.  I guess to you we should just accept and fawn over whatever the band do because it's DT? 

You fans crack me up too.

It does get repetitive though when no one explains why they chose to use those words to describe the song.

But I do not know what people are expecting and what they expect from Dream Theater. That's why I find fans of anything hilarious because they tend to feel forsaken if whatever they're fans of does something totally different from their expectations or doesn't meet the high standards of those expectations.

It's fascinating, how fans can do this.

It's gets repetitive also when fans suck the bands dick no matter what they release.  Adami is right, you explain to me why it's so awesome.  Why do negative comments have to be justified but positive ones don't?

I'm allowed to not like it.  And I've been a fan since I was 16 so don't look down on someone just because you don't agree with their opinion on a song pal.

What do I want from them?  A song that is inspired, something with energy and something that sounds like the band giving a shit and not going through the motions.  Something more melodically enticing too.

Not liking it is totally fine. I myself didn't like Paralyzed when D/T came out, and I'm happy they replaced it with FITL when they came to my city. Now, to say that the song is uninspired, and sounds like it the band is going through the motions and not giving a shit sounds to me like a way of saying:

 "I am unispired when I listen to it. I'm going through the motions when I listen to it. I don't give a shit about it"

I'm sure the band didn't feel this way when writing the song otherwise it wouldn't have made it to the album.

Alright, I'll bite.

The band perhaps didn't feel like they were going through the motions when they wrote and recorded this song, but therein lies the problem (at least for people like myself or Wolfking or Elite). From an outside perspective it sure as hell sounds like they are going through the motions just to pump out a song. Which is why it sounds uninspired and like they stopped caring about writing captivating music that excites the listener. They need an outside listener (aka a real producer) to reign them in and at the same time force them to push in new directions, try new things (and I don't mean pull a 180 and write a country album (although Devin Townsend did that and it was amazing)). The band is basically writing and recording in a musical echo chamber at this point.

I'll provide two examples: First, I was listening to my music library on shuffle today while driving and Lie came on. Now that is (still) an exciting song to listen to. It has interesting arrangements, slick solos, great vocal melodies that make you want to sing along. What an awesome song! And basically every song on Awake (once I thought about it) is just as interesting. Invisible Monster gave me none of that excitement, even on subsequent listens.

Second: a great example of a band that can excite with every album is Between the Buried and Me. Whenever they release a new album you just know it will be chock full of exciting and surprising twists and turns, while still being melodic and memorable. When I listened to their new Colors II album that was just released for the first time I had the biggest grin on my face throughout the entire hour+ runtime. The 2 new DT songs had me falling asleep part way in...

Granted, if people like the new songs, that's fine. We are all entitled to like or not like whatever we want, but people are asking for why we don't like the new songs, so I figured I'd jump in with an explanation....

Also, I do acknowledge that DT tried something new with The Astonishing and I was on board with it for a while, but it didn't age well for me. However I do give them props for trying something different there. However, DT12 and D/T both fell flat for me.

Fair potins, and I agree with you in that it all comes down to the person listening rather than to the band. I don't think an outside producer will result in anything that different but again that's just a hypothetical at this point.   

I love Awake too and Lie is indeed a masterpiece but also keep in mind it was written by a group of young early 30 year old who were still starting their career. 30 years will change people, how they write, and I think most bands that go this long go through this perception of "they sounded better back in the day". 

I personally found At Wit's End to be an absolute badass song in the last album and one that I revisit a lot - other songs in that album (Paralyzed) not so much. Similarly I find Caught in a Web meh to my ears still while Voices and Lie are absolute masterpieces to me.  It really comes down to the person listening not the band- that's the point I'm trying to make.


 

[Ben_Jamin]

Time for an IM vs AROP vs Paralyzed poll? 

Can we get a 4th option? 

Burning My Soul...

[KevShmev]

Clearly this is all DT has to offer. Do you remember how blown away they were when they completed the recording and JP and JR had a conversation on how special they felt on what they had created?

A longtime friend and I have had a running joke for decades about artists gushing over their newest album or song.  "This is our best album ever!"  I mean, what else are they supposed to say?  "Well, it's not our best work, but it's the best we had, so please buy it!" 

Now, this is not meant to imply that artists are lying, as I am sure many do feel at the time that their newest work is (one of) their best, especially when it is so fresh after having just written and recorded it, and it's great when DT or other artists express great satisfaction in their latest work, but I am just saying, comments like that need to be taken with a grain of salt. 

[Glasser]

If they released Awaken The Master as the only single I think you all would be feeling much more positive about the album overall. Sadly it wasn’t my call even though a MEDLEY would have been better!!!!! 

[LCArenas]

Honestly liked the song. Far more interesting for me than The Alien, which, with all due respect, just did nothing for me. Will be listening to it in the coming days

[TAC]

Will be checking out BTBAM

They are incredible.

I've never really gotten into them. I should do a deep dive on them.

[Glasser]

Clearly this is all DT has to offer. Do you remember how blown away they were when they completed the recording and JP and JR had a conversation on how special they felt on what they had created?

A longtime friend and I have had a running joke for decades about artists gushing over their newest album or song.  "This is our best album ever!"  I mean, what else are they supposed to say?  "Well, it's not our best work, but it's the best we had, so please buy it!" 

Now, this is not meant to imply that artists are lying, as I am sure many do feel at the time that their newest work is (one of) their best, especially when it is so fresh after having just written and recorded it, and it's great when DT or other artists express great satisfaction in their latest work, but I am just saying, comments like that need to be taken with a grain of salt.

That was supposed to be my point. They did the best they could and are completely excited about it.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Clearly this is all DT has to offer. Do you remember how blown away they were when they completed the recording and JP and JR had a conversation on how special they felt on what they had created?

A longtime friend and I have had a running joke for decades about artists gushing over their newest album or song.  "This is our best album ever!"  I mean, what else are they supposed to say?  "Well, it's not our best work, but it's the best we had, so please buy it!" 

Now, this is not meant to imply that artists are lying, as I am sure many do feel at the time that their newest work is (one of) their best, especially when it is so fresh after having just written and recorded it, and it's great when DT or other artists express great satisfaction in their latest work, but I am just saying, comments like that need to be taken with a grain of salt.

That was supposed to be my point. They did the best they could and are completely excited about it.

is DT15 better than Distance Over Time to you?

[lonestar]

Will be checking out BTBAM

They are incredible.

Start with Voice of Trespass

[Dedalus]

Will be checking out BTBAM

They are incredible.

I've never really gotten into them. I should do a deep dive on them.

I listened to Colors about 10 years ago. I didn't like it and I never looked for the other records.