Your favorite 20+ minute epic?

[HOF]

All I know is when I first heard Supper’s Ready I thought, “so that’s where Neal Morse got the idea for how to write epics.” The Great Nothing in particular takes a lot of cues from it.  I also think the structure of A Change of Seasons is somewhat similar to Supper’s Ready.

[darkshade]

All I know is when I first heard Supper’s Ready I thought, “so that’s where Neal Morse got the idea for how to write epics.” The Great Nothing in particular takes a lot of cues from it.  I also think the structure of A Change of Seasons is somewhat similar to Supper’s Ready.

This makes sense, since I hear tons of 70s and early 80s Genesis influence in Neal's music overall anyway, not just in his epics.
TGN is a good example of the SR's influence, but I hear a lot of ELP in Neal's music as well.
Genesis didn't really do the epic length compositions very much, though, which is partly why my argument is that Yes set the template more so than Genesis.

[HOF]

All I know is when I first heard Supper’s Ready I thought, “so that’s where Neal Morse got the idea for how to write epics.” The Great Nothing in particular takes a lot of cues from it.  I also think the structure of A Change of Seasons is somewhat similar to Supper’s Ready.

This makes sense, since I hear tons of 70s and early 80s Genesis influence in Neal's music overall anyway, not just in his epics.
TGN is a good example of the SR's influence, but I hear a lot of ELP in Neal's music as well.
Genesis didn't really do the epic length compositions very much, though, which is partly why my argument is that Yes set the template more so than Genesis.

I also didn't hear Close to the Edge until many years after hearing Supper's Ready, so that could be why I don't have a similar impression of CTTE sounding like other epics. I do kind of think Yes' epic song structures tend to be so all over the place (or not really structures at all) that it's hard to say anyone follows them specifically.

[wolfking]

I can't add much more to the discussion but all I know is there was 2 or 3 times throughout the song that instantly brought 8VM to mind.  I couldn't escape it to be honest.

[darkshade]

All I know is when I first heard Supper’s Ready I thought, “so that’s where Neal Morse got the idea for how to write epics.” The Great Nothing in particular takes a lot of cues from it.  I also think the structure of A Change of Seasons is somewhat similar to Supper’s Ready.

This makes sense, since I hear tons of 70s and early 80s Genesis influence in Neal's music overall anyway, not just in his epics.
TGN is a good example of the SR's influence, but I hear a lot of ELP in Neal's music as well.
Genesis didn't really do the epic length compositions very much, though, which is partly why my argument is that Yes set the template more so than Genesis.

I also didn't hear Close to the Edge until many years after hearing Supper's Ready, so that could be why I don't have a similar impression of CTTE sounding like other epics. I do kind of think Yes' epic song structures tend to be so all over the place (or not really structures at all) that it's hard to say anyone follows them specifically.

Though they get compared to Yes more than anyone else, The Flower King's Stardust We Are epic is more like Supper's Ready in it's construction (evolves like a suite, as opposed to one grand piece of music)

[HOF]

All I know is when I first heard Supper’s Ready I thought, “so that’s where Neal Morse got the idea for how to write epics.” The Great Nothing in particular takes a lot of cues from it.  I also think the structure of A Change of Seasons is somewhat similar to Supper’s Ready.

This makes sense, since I hear tons of 70s and early 80s Genesis influence in Neal's music overall anyway, not just in his epics.
TGN is a good example of the SR's influence, but I hear a lot of ELP in Neal's music as well.
Genesis didn't really do the epic length compositions very much, though, which is partly why my argument is that Yes set the template more so than Genesis.

I also didn't hear Close to the Edge until many years after hearing Supper's Ready, so that could be why I don't have a similar impression of CTTE sounding like other epics. I do kind of think Yes' epic song structures tend to be so all over the place (or not really structures at all) that it's hard to say anyone follows them specifically.

Though they get compared to Yes more than anyone else, The Flower King's Stardust We Are epic is more like Supper's Ready in it's construction (evolves like a suite, as opposed to one grand piece of music)

Yeah, Close to the Edge has more of a prominent verse/chorus aspect (not that it follows a traditional verse/chorus format, but it has a  recurring chorus at least). Stardust We Are doesn't really have that. I do hear a lot of Yes in TFK's music, but they also have some explicit nods to Genesis and King Crimson, and even a spot in SWA that sounds like the intro to Camel's Freefall.

[pg1067]

Shine On You Crazy Diamond, Parts I through IX

Alternates:
Supper's Ready
Octavarium
Alive Again
Echoes
Tarkus
Abbey Road Medley

That last one is only about 16:20, according to the track times listed on Wikipedia.

-Marc.

It's also one of the most overrated things in the history of recorded music, and calling it an "epic" (or any sort of singular entity) really stretches things.

[lonestar]

Shine On You Crazy Diamond, Parts I through IX

Alternates:
Supper's Ready
Octavarium
Alive Again
Echoes
Tarkus
Abbey Road Medley

That last one is only about 16:20, according to the track times listed on Wikipedia.

-Marc.

It's also one of the most overrated things in the history of recorded music, and calling it an "epic" (or any sort of singular entity) really stretches things.

It's more a bunch of 2:50 songs mashed together, a la A Quick One by the Who. Personally I think it's a lovely piece, but doesn't really warrant a mention among top epics.


As to the Genesis influence discussion, I'd gather to say that a vast majority of modern prog bands can trace their sonic roots to them, and the construction of an epic to Supper's Ready as opposed to how Yes did things. Yes epics I always felt were in a class of their own, they never really seemed to me to be storytelling mechanisms, but more a path to a different spiritual plane via song and word, and in that aspect, most storytelling epics would lean more towards sounding like Supper's Ready.

[pg1067]

It's more a bunch of 2:50 songs mashed together, a la A Quick One by the Who. Personally I think it's a lovely piece, but doesn't really warrant a mention among top epics.

Agree.  Some of the bits are good, and it would've been nice to see them developed into full songs.  Others are not so good.

[jingle.boy]

Well, 8vm is my favourite song of all time, so there’s that.

I’ll chime back in later with some honorable mentions, the biggest of which (naturally) will be Light of Day, Day of Darkness.

[wolfking]

Well, 8vm is my favourite song of all time, so there’s that.

I’ll chime back in later with some honorable mentions, the biggest of which (naturally) will be Light of Day, Day of Darkness.

I'm surprised I've been the only mention of this song until you.

[TAC]

Other than the DT tracks, and 2112, I've never heard anything else listed. I have heard Shine On Your Crazy Diamond.


WTF is the Abbey Road medley? Is that the Beatles album with the spaces deleted?

[lonestar]

Other than the DT tracks, and 2112, I've never heard anything else listed. I have heard Shine On Your Crazy Diamond.


WTF is the Abbey Road medley? Is that the Beatles album with the spaces deleted?

It refers to side 2 of abbey road, which is continuous

And go check out Milliontown by Frost* asap

[wolfking]

Other than the DT tracks, and 2112, I've never heard anything else listed. I have heard Shine On Your Crazy Diamond.


WTF is the Abbey Road medley? Is that the Beatles album with the spaces deleted?

It refers to side 2 of abbey road, which is continuous

And go check out Milliontown by Frost* asap

I will be shocked if Tim likes this.

[lonestar]

Other than the DT tracks, and 2112, I've never heard anything else listed. I have heard Shine On Your Crazy Diamond.


WTF is the Abbey Road medley? Is that the Beatles album with the spaces deleted?

It refers to side 2 of abbey road, which is continuous

And go check out Milliontown by Frost* asap

I will be shocked if Tim likes this.

True that.. Maybe Retrospective by Silent Memorial is more his speed

[wolfking]

Other than the DT tracks, and 2112, I've never heard anything else listed. I have heard Shine On Your Crazy Diamond.


WTF is the Abbey Road medley? Is that the Beatles album with the spaces deleted?

It refers to side 2 of abbey road, which is continuous

And go check out Milliontown by Frost* asap

I will be shocked if Tim likes this.

True that.. Maybe Retrospective by Silent Memorial is more his speed

Good call.  Haven't played that album in a long long time.

[TAC]

I think I've run through the Silent Memorial once. I don't remember.  I got a Frosty tune in one of my roulettes and I thought I liked it. I'll have to check which song.

[KevShmev]

It's more a bunch of 2:50 songs mashed together, a la A Quick One by the Who. Personally I think it's a lovely piece, but doesn't really warrant a mention among top epics.

Agreed.  Side 2 of Abbey Road is a suite of short songs that all run together, not a true epic.  I love it, but I would never think to call it an epic or even a single song.

[425]

Every Transatlantic vote so far has gone to Stranger in Your Soul, but I think my choice is All of the Above.

The other contenders in my top three are probably Octavarium and The Neal Morse Band - Alive Again.

I actually went with Duel With the Devil over both, but I think I’d rank them Duel, AOTA, then Stranger. All are at the top of the class though!

Thanks for calling that out. I must have missed you because after a few mentions of Stranger only, I went looking specifically for All.

I go back and forth on how I rank Duel and Stranger relative to each other, but I lean in favor of Stranger. My Transatlantic hot take is that I put Kaleidoscope ahead of both, and behind on All and The Whirlwind.

[jammindude]

Other than the DT tracks, and 2112, I've never heard anything else listed. I have heard Shine On Your Crazy Diamond.


WTF is the Abbey Road medley? Is that the Beatles album with the spaces deleted?

OMG Tim, check out the Supper’s Ready link I posted last page.

[KevShmev]

Supper's Ready is awesome, but I'd be shocked if Tim liked it. 

I actually think that is one of the more unique prog epics, structurally.  Not many others have the same structure that one has (trying to think of another 20-minute rock epic that kicks off with singing the instant the song begins).

The Gates of Delirium is another with a really unique structure.  The song basically climaxes about 2/3 of the way through, instead of near or at the end, and the rest of the song is the calm aftermath. 

[lonestar]

Supper's Ready is awesome, but I'd be shocked if Tim liked it. 

I actually think that is one of the more unique prog epics, structurally.  Not many others have the same structure that one has (trying to think of another 20-minute rock epic that kicks off with singing the instant the song begins).

The Gates of Delirium is another with a really unique structure.  The song basically climaxes about 2/3 of the way through, instead of near or at the end, and the rest of the song is the calm aftermath.

Yes has done that with a few of their epics...Rituals and The Ancient kind of run the same gamut. Just as Gates ends with Soon, Rituals ending with Nous Somme du Soleil and Ancient ending with Leaves of Green. All of them are brilliant fucking songs, all endings are Jon Anderson at his finest. Was blessed to have seen all three live in one show.

[jammindude]

It just occurred to me that my favorite Yes epic (TRSOG) also *technically* starts off with singing. Although I prefer the long intro so much that I’ve discontinued listening to the original.

It’s my understanding that the band preferred the long intro, but made the decision to cut it strictly on the basis of the limitations of LP sides at the time. But I can’t remember where I heard that.

[wolfking]

I think I've run through the Silent Memorial once. I don't remember.  I got a Frosty tune in one of my roulettes and I thought I liked it. I'll have to check which song.

Probably from Chad.

[jingle.boy]

I think I've run through the Silent Memorial once. I don't remember.  I got a Frosty tune in one of my roulettes and I thought I liked it. I'll have to check which song.

Probably from Chad.

That's a negative, Ghost Rider.  But I was dumb enough to send him Transatlantic (Kaleidoscope)... I was finishing last anyway, so I through all caution to the wind.

[wolfking]

I think I've run through the Silent Memorial once. I don't remember.  I got a Frosty tune in one of my roulettes and I thought I liked it. I'll have to check which song.

Probably from Chad.

That's a negative, Ghost Rider.  But I was dumb enough to send him Transatlantic (Kaleidoscope)... I was finishing last anyway, so I through all caution to the wind.

Haha, ballsy move sending him Transatlantic. 

[jingle.boy]

Here are some honorable mentions, which I haven't seen posted yet.

Tangerine Circus / The Conspiracy (20:18) A gem by the band where DarkLordLalinc is the writer and keyboardist.  Production is a little thin, but this is absolutely fantastic.  Gives me vibes of The Odyssey
Symphony X / Divine Wings of Tragedy (20:43) Has this really not been mentioned yet??
Maestrick / Lake of of Emotions (21:03) I'd be surprised if many other than RJ know this one.  Maestrick is a pretty eclectic band
Jethro Tull / Thick as a Brick Part 1 (22:26) I think this is Top 5 from the >20min songs from the 70s.  Personally, I'd put it 2nd to Supper's Ready
Daydream XI / The Grand Disguise (23:41)  Here you go Tim, a song you've heard of.  Anyone who mentioned ACOS as their fave, I highly encourage you to have a go at this one.  So much so, I've linked it.  Seriously, do yourself a favour. 
Moon Safari / Lover's End Pt. III - Skelleftea Serenade (24:21) Peak Moon Safari afaic
Dream Theater / In The Presence of Enemies (25:39)
Spock's Beard / Falling for Forever (27:07) I mean c'mon... all three eras in one song!
Southern Empire / The Bridge that Binds (28:22) This is filled with catchy hooks, and neo-prog greatness
Transatlantic / Kaleidoscope (31:54) the biggest TA song, and in my Top 3 by them
Shadow Gallery / First Light (34:19) Sure, it's really only a 30 minute (ish) song, but it's 30 minutes of awesomeness.  RIP Mike Baker

Just in case anyone's interested, here's a Spotify Playlist of these (sans Spock's and TA, cuz we all know how much Neal hates Spotify).

[Zydar]

Since 'Close To The Edge' is under 20 minutes, I'll add 'Visions' by Haken to my favourites instead.

[425]

Transatlantic / Kaleidoscope (31:54) the biggest TA song, and in my Top 3 by them

Didn't know you loved this one, too! It's in my top 3 TA songs as well, and I mentioned it in that context earlier, but I only wound up including All of the Above in my top 3 overall list.

[KevShmev]

Since 'Close To The Edge' is under 20 minutes, I'll add 'Visions' by Haken to my favourites instead.

Good call.  I do think Visions is probably one of the best 20 minute epics of the 21st century along with Stranger in Your Soul (Transatlantic),  Duel with the Devil (Transatlantic), Alive Again (Neal Morse Band), Devil's Playground (Flower Kings) and Raider II (Steven Wilson).

All of the Above is technically from the 20th century, so I can't include that one in the 21st century mentions.

And as much as I like Octavarium, I can't put it on the levels of those I listed above. 

[lonestar]

Since 'Close To The Edge' is under 20 minutes, I'll add 'Visions' by Haken to my favourites instead.

I remember when I did my DTF Best Epic thread, CttE's length was the hallmark to be classified as an epic.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

.

[Trav86]

I think if it took up an album side on vinyl, it should count.

[jammindude]

I think if it took up an album side on vinyl, it should count.

Ironically…Supper’s Ready doesn’t. Although I’ve always viewed Horizons is something of an “intro” to SR

[Trav86]

I think if it took up an album side on vinyl, it should count.

Ironically…Supper’s Ready doesn’t. Although I’ve always viewed Horizons is something of an “intro” to SR

I always forget about that.