WTF?!? - An Airline Thread

[Harmony]

So for several years now, I've followed a former flight attendant on IG.  Her handle is "Passenger Shaming" and it never ceases to amaze me what kind of things happen while flying.  Like who thinks being on an airplane is a great place to cut their toe nails?  Or dry their panties using the overhead air flow?  Or leaving behind used condoms or bottles of piss for the cleaning crew to manage?  Don't even get me started on the folks who walk barefoot to and from the lavs - uh...newsflash, that isn't water on the floor in there. 

But I'm noticing a disturbing trend - and maybe it is just social media ginning things up - but did anyone see that out of control passenger that had to be duct taped to the seat after he groped 2 female flight attendants and then punched a male flight attendant?

https://nypost.com/2021/08/03/man-accused-of-groping-flight-attendants-duct-taped-to-seat/

I don't think this is just alcohol-fueled-nincompoopery or just the mask mandates.  What is it with folks who are traveling who think the plane is a substitute for their living room and they just get to make up their own rules?  Does the threat of a lifetime ban from air travel not seem to be enough?

Does anyone here have a good story to share about the crazy things they've seen while traveling?

[El Barto]

I won't fly Spirit or Frontier, so truthfully, these sorts of things are quite as common.

[cramx3]

I've never seen the stuff I read about online in person while flying.  I do however come across some really disgusting people who you'd think should take a little bit more care of themselves before sitting next to random people with little room for a few hours. 

I think it was flying back from Atlanta where I was completely drenched in sweat when I boarded the plane, I felt pretty bad for the person next to me because I looked like a hot mess, but I really couldn't control that.

[El Barto]

As I think a bit more about it, I think it's an unavoidable problem. Part of it is certainly boorish passengers. The airlines certainly have their share of the blame, though, and that's partly a result of trying to cater to those boorish passengers. Passengers used to be well behaved and treated flying as a great thing. Flying also used to be a great, enjoyable experience. As the airlines try to make travel affordable to the masses, and they've certainly succeeded, they've made it into something downright awful. Anybody really enjoy flying anymore? This is where we began with commercial air travel. Here is where we've wound up. You've got 9 people where 2 used to be. Then factor in tight schedules and long lines. Delays when you're already in the plane and you're cooking because they won't run an engine to save fuel. You've got people fighting over storage bins because checking bags is so expensive.

This is where Spirit and Frontier (and of course Ryanair, for our Limey friends) come in. Making flights as cheap as possible for the cheapest possible passengers, and increasing stress and annoyance as they go. It's no wonder people snap. Now not only do you have all the customary aggravations, but you've got gate agents dinging you $50 because you didn't print your tickets at home, and another $50 because your bag is 18g overweight. It's a race to the bottom in terms of both cost and dignity.

Yes, people should certainly try to be considerate of one another. We're all just trying to get through it the same way. At the same time we've all been dehumanized in the process. We are freight. We get slotted in a 3 cubic foot bin and carted about. I can understand some people wanting to try and make themselves as comfortable as possible.

[Stadler]

I was with you 1000% - and grateful you wrote it first - up to the last paragraph.  I'm old enough to remember people who dressed for a flight like they were going to work in an office (I did that too for a short time) and now it's PJ's and flip flops.   That second photo is quite tame compared to some of the people I've seen. 

Yes, the airlines treat you like a FedEx package, but tend your own garden.  How the airline treats you isn't really the standard by which you should treat those around you.  I'm not from the airline; get your bare foot with gross toes and foot fungus away from me.  (I can still recall the flight where the guy next to me was in flip flops and crossed his legs so that his right foot was within inches of my hand as I rested on the armrest.   As I'm not a huge foot person to begin with, it was pure torture for me.)

I still dress for flights as I would for at a minimum, a modest $$ restaurant.  At MINIMUM, sneakers or loafers, jeans or shorts, and a collared shirt.  And while I don't check bags when flying solo, I make it a point to put my bag - when I can - in front of me so I don't have to work back through traffic to get it.  And if I do, I wait until ALL rows between me and my bag are gone before going back, so I'm not holding up the line.  I prep to disembark as best I can again, so I'm not holding up the line.   If I don't have a connection and the flight is late, I stay seated at least until the rows have passed me.   If I've checked bags at the jetway, I actually stand in the line on the side of the jetway instead of clogging the ramp waiting for my bag to come up.

It's just simple awareness and common courtesy.

[cramx3]

I think there is a general trend of people just not giving a fuck about others in this country.  I'm not entirely sold on it being the airlines faults that people are douches.

[El Barto]

I don't think it's the airline's fault. I think the airlines share a good deal of the responsibility. The reality is that the boorish weren't going to fly Pan Am in 1964. Now they can, and cutting costs has enabled that. At the same time cutting costs has made the entire process quite unpleasant. Replace pleasure with aggravation, replace well-healed with boorish, and then double the capacity and you're going to wind up with carnage. From where I sit, spend a few bucks more on a proper airline and get a proportionately better experience with a proportionate decrease in scum.

Seriously, I've tried finding a picture of a Spirit flight to compare with the "after" picture I posted above, and they all look like this.   

[Dublagent66]

Last time I flew was nearly 6 years ago and don't plan on it again any time soon.  In my book, everyone on the plane is a douchebaggery asshole until they prove they're not.

[pg1067]

Here are a few interesting and relatively short articles that compare the "Golden Age" of air travel to now.

https://www.travelandleisure.com/airlines-airports/history-of-flight-costs

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/air-travel-1950s_n_5461411

https://gizmodo.com/air-travel-today-is-a-damn-bargain-951705216 (multiply the prices listed by 10 to get the equivalent in today's dollar)

I have a vague memory of being told that my family flew back east to visit extended family when I was just a couple years old.  Obviously, I have no memory of the trip.  The first time I remember getting on a plane was in 1981, when my mother and I flew from Socal to Denver to spend a few weeks with my sister and her family.  I don't recall much about the flight, but I do recall extracting a promise from my mother not to smoke on the plane.  I didn't get on a plane again until 1989 when I briefly dated a girl who worked for Southwest Airlines.  That being my adult introduction to flying, things don't seem too different, except that the prices that my now-wife and I paid back in the mid-'90s to travel from one coast to the other are about the same despite a dollar from 1995 having the buying power of $1.78 in today's dollars.

Every once in a while I'm tempted to book on Spirit or Frontier, but I've never actually done it.

[Anguyen92]

Well, I haven't flown on an airplane in 17 years prior to 2019, but all of the 10 plane trips I have taken since then, I can safely say I only had one bad experience.  I was on a plane (it was with Delta) from Orlando to Raleigh for a concert in September 2019 and I was sitting next to a family and their child was touching my face and they didn't do anything to stop it or said anything to me to acknowledge it. 

I was a bit miffed about it, but I really didn't care about it in the moment, since I had a certain goal I wanted to accomplish.  You see, by pure sheer coincidence, I was on the same plane with Myles Kennedy of Alter Bridge and I really wanted to see if I can get a few minutes to chat with the guy after we landed in Raleigh, so whatever happened in the plane ride was irrelevant if I can get that moment, and I did and it was the greatest moment of my life.  Here's the picture.

https://imgur.com/9fXqQiM

So yeah, I say I have a decent track record of ok plane/airline experiences.

[TAC]

Are you sure it wasn't you touching Myles Kennedy's face?

[Anguyen92]

Nawww, he was in first class.  I was in coach with the crying children.

But yeah, I say I have a decent track record of ok plane/airline experiences.  I find it funny though that in John Wayne Airport in the OC, they had a display of all of the Anaheim Ducks Jerseys in their history.  I haven't been to LAX, so I can't say if they have the same deal for the Lakers, Dodgers, Kings, etc.

[cramx3]

That's pretty cool, but wtf with the touching of your face? I mean, kids being kids fine, but I would have put an end to that real quick.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

I fly so seldom these days, that when I do I make sure it's a good airline and I get first class tickets. I don't want to deal with coach anymore. Those people are crazy!

When I have to fly for work they always get me and my coworkers first class tickets, so that's nice.

[cramx3]

Work only allows first class for international travel, but I can do economy plus for all flights which doesn't change that much in terms of being in coach.  I can get that upgrade for free with my status but screw it, I'd rather let the company pay so I can get the few extra miles.

[El Barto]

That's pretty cool, but wtf with the touching of your face? I mean, kids being kids fine, but I would have put an end to that real quick.

Spoken like somebody who's never sported a long beard. 

[ProfessorPeart]

I've never flown all that much, but I can tell you that I would never entertain the option of flying Break Your Spirit airlines. Frontier, either.

Southwest is as low as I go for bargain flying and, sadly, I have seen several stories recently from them around idiot passengers. Frankly, makes me not want to bother right now.

[TAC]

We only fly Jetblue. We've been happy with them.

[El Barto]

I've never flown all that much, but I can tell you that I would never entertain the option of flying Break Your Spirit airlines. Frontier, either.

Southwest is as low as I go for bargain flying and, sadly, I have seen several stories recently from them around idiot passengers. Frankly, makes me not want to bother right now.

In my experience, SWA isn't really a bargain at all anymore. That might have to do with AA hubbing out of DFW, but nine times out of ten AA blows them out of the air, price wise. If you book on exactly the right day, and don't mind flying out at 0500, you can do alright. Those tickets go fast, though, and any decent flights are terribly overpriced. They're a good airline, but as a low cost carrier they get by on reputation only.

[cramx3]

That's pretty cool, but wtf with the touching of your face? I mean, kids being kids fine, but I would have put an end to that real quick.

Spoken like somebody who's never sported a long beard. 

I can't grow one if I wanted to  , but he mentioned touching the face which I think is different than touching a long beard. However, if we are talking travel to some countries, different customs do exist.

[Stadler]

I've never flown all that much, but I can tell you that I would never entertain the option of flying Break Your Spirit airlines. Frontier, either.

Southwest is as low as I go for bargain flying and, sadly, I have seen several stories recently from them around idiot passengers. Frankly, makes me not want to bother right now.

In my experience, SWA isn't really a bargain at all anymore. That might have to do with AA hubbing out of DFW, but nine times out of ten AA blows them out of the air, price wise. If you book on exactly the right day, and don't mind flying out at 0500, you can do alright. Those tickets go fast, though, and any decent flights are terribly overpriced. They're a good airline, but as a low cost carrier they get by on reputation only.

We do fly Spirit when going to Florida, primarily because when we do that, it's usually five or six people at a time, so we (I) accept the hardship, breath deep and suck it up for three hours.   I feel like I can do ANYTHING for three hours in the right mindset (that is to say, with a couple Long Islands).   So we're traveling based on price only; SouthWest rarely factors into the equation in those instances.  For work, I stick with the bigger carriers, usually AA or Delta.

[XJDenton]

I can't say I've seen much of this type of behaviour on any of the European flights I've been on.

[Adami]

I assume none of you have ever flown to Israel, especially on El Al?

They're getting better but they have a long history of pandering to the ultra religious. So much so that women will often have to be moved if a religious man doesn't want to sit next to them. Religious Jewish men get to do whatever they want and everyone else has to accommodate them.

[El Barto]

I've never flown all that much, but I can tell you that I would never entertain the option of flying Break Your Spirit airlines. Frontier, either.

Southwest is as low as I go for bargain flying and, sadly, I have seen several stories recently from them around idiot passengers. Frankly, makes me not want to bother right now.

In my experience, SWA isn't really a bargain at all anymore. That might have to do with AA hubbing out of DFW, but nine times out of ten AA blows them out of the air, price wise. If you book on exactly the right day, and don't mind flying out at 0500, you can do alright. Those tickets go fast, though, and any decent flights are terribly overpriced. They're a good airline, but as a low cost carrier they get by on reputation only.

We do fly Spirit when going to Florida, primarily because when we do that, it's usually five or six people at a time, so we (I) accept the hardship, breath deep and suck it up for three hours.   I feel like I can do ANYTHING for three hours in the right mindset (that is to say, with a couple Long Islands).   So we're traveling based on price only; SouthWest rarely factors into the equation in those instances.  For work, I stick with the bigger carriers, usually AA or Delta.

Does it actually turn out to be any cheaper? The prices I've seen certainly look cheaper at first glance, but only up until you add any one option. It's never cheaper by as much as the cost of a carry-on.

[Harmony]

So Frontier Airlines suspended the FAs who duct taped that guy to his seat.  It is shocking to me how many people seem to believe that there are air marshals on every flight.  smdh

If anyone follows comedienne Blaire Erskine on social media, her riff on this incident is pretty good.

[El Barto]

So Frontier Airlines suspended the FAs who duct taped that guy to his seat.  It is shocking to me how many people seem to believe that there are air marshals on every flight.  smdh

If anyone follows comedienne Blaire Erskine on social media, her riff on this incident is pretty good.

Air marshals wouldn't go near that. There may well have been one on that flight and he kept to himself because drunken and/or unruly pax aren't his bag. He's there to shoot terrorists and nothing more.

Also, another reason to not fly Frontier. Herb Kelleher made very clear that one of the reasons for his success was always backing his employees. He regarded "the customer is always right" as one of the worst and most dangerous maxims in business. In that situation I'm giving those FAs some sort of reward. Calling them out sends entirely the wrong message to both your employees and your customers. Good FAs are worth far more than shitty passengers.

[cramx3]

Definitely agree with that last point EB.

I love using the line "the customer is always right" to my friend who owns a car wash when he complains about terrible customers.... but in reality that slogan is bs.  Maybe it made sense years ago, but today everyone is trying to one up someone or get a deal.  Customers are assholes a lot of the time.

[Adami]

Definitely agree with that last point EB.

I love using the line "the customer is always right" to my friend who owns a car wash when he complains about terrible customers.... but in reality that slogan is bs.  Maybe it made sense years ago, but today everyone is trying to one up someone or get a deal.  Customers are assholes a lot of the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOXAs9o3xUE

[cramx3]

Great movie 

[El Barto]

Definitely agree with that last point EB.

I love using the line "the customer is always right" to my friend who owns a car wash when he complains about terrible customers.... but in reality that slogan is bs.  Maybe it made sense years ago, but today everyone is trying to one up someone or get a deal.  Customers are assholes a lot of the time.

Well, it certainly depends on the type of business, but I damn sure hate being on the wrong side of it. In our business customers are hard to come by and we have to keep them. Even the shitty ones, as we still come out way ahead for bending over when need be. I hate giving people free stuff, and I know some of our customers will take advantage of that, but our margins are typically such that we're still blowing them out in the long game. Herb recognized that customers in his industry will always take the cheapest ticket, and if you tell one of them to piss off he'll still come back if you're offering the best deal. Skilled labor was worth more than the potential loss of a one-time customer.

[Harmony]

So Frontier Airlines suspended the FAs who duct taped that guy to his seat.  It is shocking to me how many people seem to believe that there are air marshals on every flight.  smdh

If anyone follows comedienne Blaire Erskine on social media, her riff on this incident is pretty good.

Air marshals wouldn't go near that. There may well have been one on that flight and he kept to himself because drunken and/or unruly pax aren't his bag. He's there to shoot terrorists and nothing more.

Also, another reason to not fly Frontier. Herb Kelleher made very clear that one of the reasons for his success was always backing his employees. He regarded "the customer is always right" as one of the worst and most dangerous maxims in business. In that situation I'm giving those FAs some sort of reward. Calling them out sends entirely the wrong message to both your employees and your customers. Good FAs are worth far more than shitty passengers.

Yeah, Frontier is taking a lot of heat about suspending those FAs.  That said - and while I believe the FAs had to take control for the safety of the passengers and crew - it appears duct tape was used to cover the guys mouth (hard to tell from the angle of the shot from behind) which could potential result is asphyxiation.  And I've seen other footage where the guy was completely restrained and other passengers on the plane were filming him and taunting/laughing.  Not that he doesn't deserve it, I can just see some legal action there.

About the air marshals though - if there were an incident where the flight could be in jeopardy because of a drunk/unruly passenger, you honestly think they wouldn't intervene at all?  And realistically it couldn't be possible to have one on every flight.  I'm too lazy to look it up, but that would be a lot of air marshals, wouldn't it?  Ugh, other than porta-potty cleaners, I can't think of many worse jobs than that. 

[Ben_Jamin]

Definitely agree with that last point EB.

I love using the line "the customer is always right" to my friend who owns a car wash when he complains about terrible customers.... but in reality that slogan is bs.  Maybe it made sense years ago, but today everyone is trying to one up someone or get a deal.  Customers are assholes a lot of the time.

Customers have a sense of entitlement, which they do not.

The entitlement that they are always right and the business is here to serve them.

Also, I think it has a lot to do with expectations, besides just entitlement. People get all hyped up on the commercials or from a friends over exaggeration of the business. Then when they get there their experience is shit. They then get entitled when it doesn't meet those expectations. When the business either went through changes or is having a rough business day, or supplies are short, or many other things that can detriment the experience of the customer.


There's one restaurant business here that opened up but the building they were leasing is old and the bathrooms are in horrible condition. There was a pizza place that did not get any business much at all, and I believe that was due to their horrible bathroom conditions, the sewer was backed up and you could smell that backed up water. This new business I dont think is doing any better. Although, they opened up at another building and I overheard customers telling the servers about the other building and how that place was horrible and this one is much better.



I also find it hilarious how you can get a sense of peoples attitudes and overall behavior just by going to a certain branded store. An example would be how we have The People of Wal-Mart. Compare those people who shop there and those who shop at Target or better yet, Kohl's.

Here where I live, these shops are divided up a bit by class. Most poverty stricken people shop at Walmart, Sam's Club, or Dollar Tree. The next class shops at Target. The higher classes usually shop at Kohl's or the more "well kept" stores. Although, I did hear some nasty stories about the people who do shop at Kohl's.

Oh and I fly Southwest. I don't mind the people because I'm small structured and can fit in anywhere on a plane. I usually try and get the window or aisle seating. But then I usually just put on my headphones and sleep. Or if I get the window look outside and observe the marvelous view of being up in the sky.

[El Barto]

So Frontier Airlines suspended the FAs who duct taped that guy to his seat.  It is shocking to me how many people seem to believe that there are air marshals on every flight.  smdh

If anyone follows comedienne Blaire Erskine on social media, her riff on this incident is pretty good.

Air marshals wouldn't go near that. There may well have been one on that flight and he kept to himself because drunken and/or unruly pax aren't his bag. He's there to shoot terrorists and nothing more.

Also, another reason to not fly Frontier. Herb Kelleher made very clear that one of the reasons for his success was always backing his employees. He regarded "the customer is always right" as one of the worst and most dangerous maxims in business. In that situation I'm giving those FAs some sort of reward. Calling them out sends entirely the wrong message to both your employees and your customers. Good FAs are worth far more than shitty passengers.

Yeah, Frontier is taking a lot of heat about suspending those FAs.  That said - and while I believe the FAs had to take control for the safety of the passengers and crew - it appears duct tape was used to cover the guys mouth (hard to tell from the angle of the shot from behind) which could potential result is asphyxiation.  And I've seen other footage where the guy was completely restrained and other passengers on the plane were filming him and taunting/laughing.  Not that he doesn't deserve it, I can just see some legal action there.

About the air marshals though - if there were an incident where the flight could be in jeopardy because of a drunk/unruly passenger, you honestly think they wouldn't intervene at all?  And realistically it couldn't be possible to have one on every flight.  I'm too lazy to look it up, but that would be a lot of air marshals, wouldn't it?  Ugh, other than porta-potty cleaners, I can't think of many worse jobs than that.

That guy wasn't endangering the flight. Their job is only to get involved when there's a real danger. If that passenger is likely to kill or really hurt somebody he'd probably get involved, but in that instance passengers would probably take care of it first. It may happen all the time, but I'm not aware of air marshals really getting involved in anything. Anonymity is key to what they do.

As for numbers, they've done an excellent job at hiding them. It could be 5% of all flights. It could be 80%. The only people that know are the air marshals themselves and the captains of their flights, and pilots know better than to squeal about it. I think at least one FA is aware, as well, in case somebody sees a gun and raises a question about it.

[ProfessorPeart]

Someone on Twitter made a hilarious comment on the crew getting suspended:

It's Frontier. Execs are pissed they used that much tape. You only get to use a fourth of a roll per passenger unless he/she paid for their carry-on. Then it's half a roll.

[TAC]

I also find it hilarious how you can get a sense of peoples attitudes and overall behavior just by going to a certain branded store. An example would be how we have The People of Wal-Mart.

I was reading a thing once where a realtor was saying that before you move into a community that you're not familiar with, be sure to go to the local Wal Mart to gauge the area.