Poll

What are YOUR pct of chances MP EVER returns to DT

100% It's bound to happen - It always does
11 (6.4%)
50% It's possible, but I hope not
13 (7.5%)
50% It's possible, I certainly hope so
24 (13.9%)
25% If Roth could return to VH, anything is possible
54 (31.2%)
0% Will NEVER happen
71 (41%)

Total Members Voted: 173

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Online Stadler

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #140 on: August 04, 2021, 02:16:48 PM »
The Allman Brothers.

Their sons' band, The Allman Betts Band, does as well.

One of the best live moments I've experienced was a 45-minute "In Memory Of Elizabeth Reed" with the Warren Haynes/Dickie Betts lineup, and the middle section was a good 10 minute drum duet between Butch Trucks and Jaimo.

Offline pg1067

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #141 on: August 04, 2021, 02:29:34 PM »
The Allman Brothers.

Their sons' band, The Allman Betts Band, does as well.

Mookie Betts is the son of an Allman Brother?!   :biggrin:
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Online cramx3

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #142 on: August 04, 2021, 03:22:31 PM »
Rejoining the band permanently replacing Mangini - 0%

Rejoining the band permanently alongside Mangini - 10%

Why would they have two drummers? a band can get away with three guitarists instead of two, or two singers instead of one, but two drummers? especially considering the size of both kits.... was there ever a band that had two permanent drummers?

A lot of bands also have a drummer and percussionist which isn't too different than two drummers.

Online Stadler

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #143 on: August 04, 2021, 03:56:52 PM »
Rejoining the band permanently replacing Mangini - 0%

Rejoining the band permanently alongside Mangini - 10%

Why would they have two drummers? a band can get away with three guitarists instead of two, or two singers instead of one, but two drummers? especially considering the size of both kits.... was there ever a band that had two permanent drummers?

A lot of bands also have a drummer and percussionist which isn't too different than two drummers.

Widespread Panic.  The touring Pink Floyd, post-Waters.

Offline gzarruk

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #144 on: August 04, 2021, 03:57:25 PM »
Yes did it with White and Bruford for the Union tour, kind of cool.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Online cramx3

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #145 on: August 04, 2021, 05:34:05 PM »
Rejoining the band permanently replacing Mangini - 0%

Rejoining the band permanently alongside Mangini - 10%

Why would they have two drummers? a band can get away with three guitarists instead of two, or two singers instead of one, but two drummers? especially considering the size of both kits.... was there ever a band that had two permanent drummers?

A lot of bands also have a drummer and percussionist which isn't too different than two drummers.

Widespread Panic.  The touring Pink Floyd, post-Waters.

Chicago and Toto were recent bands I've seen with the drummer and percussionist.  I really don't see DT doing this, but it's not uncommon.

Offline BeatriceNB

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #146 on: August 04, 2021, 07:56:05 PM »
Godspeed You! Black Emperor has two drummers (one of the kits has orchestra stuff like a glockenspiel).

The Blasphemy lineup of Kayo Dot has two drummers, one guitarist and one bassist/keyboardist.

Offline DTwwbwMP

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #147 on: August 04, 2021, 09:07:55 PM »
IMO, there is a LESS THAN ZERO pct chance of DT EVER having a two drummer set. One, MP would NEVER go for it (Nor should he). Two, it would inconsiderate to MM.

Offline Bertielee

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #148 on: August 05, 2021, 04:10:03 AM »
What we really need is for LTE to open for DT on the next tour. Everybody wins.

Except JLB...lol

B.Lee

Would JLB stand behind the back line for the LTE set too?  Or just most of the DT set?   I KID!  I KID!

(I really do kid; I'm a JLB fan, he's why I FIRST got into the band and I can't imagine liking DT without James singing.)   

Now, that is funny, Stad!

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Online Stadler

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #149 on: August 05, 2021, 05:51:30 AM »
IMO, there is a LESS THAN ZERO pct chance of DT EVER having a two drummer set. One, MP would NEVER go for it (Nor should he). Two, it would inconsiderate to MM.

Not that I know any more about what they are thinking than you do, but I think you underestimate the power of collaboration.   For instance, Portnoy is a HUGE Genesis fan, and from '76 to this very day, their tours highlighted a double-drum set up, and in fact it was a highlight of the show.   I'm not saying it can't happen - Steve Howe - but unless they say it to be so, I'm not willing to assume that any musician, particularly two who have such varied collaborative backgrounds, would default to be "inconsiderate" by the idea of yet another musical collaboration.  Again, Iron Maiden (Gers, Murray, Smith).

I know for me, anything I'm suggesting here assumes the full (if not tacit) approval of all parties.   These are grown men and I trust them to make their own decisions, and be accepting of any outcome.  It's not for me to say that they should or should not do anything, or whether they should or should not feel a certain way. 
« Last Edit: August 05, 2021, 08:28:33 AM by Stadler »

Offline cfmoran13

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #150 on: August 05, 2021, 07:29:19 AM »
Until one of these guys is no longer above ground, there is always gonna be a chance.  Hell, MP has already written and performed new music with half of the other 4 DT guys!  And, sure, JLB may be the biggest and final hurdle before it ever happens again.  But, if the original 4 members of KISS were able to get it together for a few years to tour again, a less dysfunctional DT can certainly do it.  Maybe JP gets tired of writing 90-100% of the lyrics on their albums and would like an assist from an old partner.  Maybe MM finally gets fed up with MP's ghost hanging over his head for 10-15 years.  Whatever the reason, until it physically can't happen, one can always hope.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #151 on: August 05, 2021, 07:59:17 AM »
Haven't seen it mentioned - but i'd be cool with MP coming back as co-producer on a future album.


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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #152 on: August 05, 2021, 12:29:31 PM »
Until one of these guys is no longer above ground, there is always gonna be a chance.  Hell, MP has already written and performed new music with half of the other 4 DT guys!  And, sure, JLB may be the biggest and final hurdle before it ever happens again.  But, if the original 4 members of KISS were able to get it together for a few years to tour again, a less dysfunctional DT can certainly do it.  Maybe JP gets tired of writing 90-100% of the lyrics on their albums and would like an assist from an old partner.  Maybe MM finally gets fed up with MP's ghost hanging over his head for 10-15 years.  Whatever the reason, until it physically can't happen, one can always hope.

Yeah I'd rather have writer's block JP lyrics than any MP lyrics.

Offline gzarruk

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #153 on: August 05, 2021, 02:42:33 PM »
DOT, and most likely the new album, shows there's no need for them to get more lyricists in the band. 4/5 of the members write lyrics already.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline MoraWintersoul

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #154 on: August 05, 2021, 03:33:34 PM »
I voted for the 25% chance but I honestly want to go back and do 50%. Everything that's cited here as a reason not to go through with a reunion I see as resolvable. MP and JLB could absolutely sit down and catch up and patch the long break in their friendship if the band was on the line. JP and MP could work out who would do what and they would both be willing to make concessions.

Remember this isn't 2010 anymore and these guys are old! (No offense to my boomers and older X-ers here)

As for MM having to leave on his own volition, not that that's impossible (he might say 12-15 years of being in a band again was enough for him), but Dream Theater isn't exactly known for never firing people. Relationships change all the time and I don't see that as beyond them anymore, like I used to.

This all hinges on them actually being willing to reunite, but it all comes down to the fact MP was very unlikely to leave back in the day, and yet he did. Shit happens, you know?

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Offline Trav86

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #155 on: August 05, 2021, 04:21:11 PM »
I’ve been supportive of MM from the beginning. And, overall I really like the direction the band has taken these last 10 years. A direction that probably wouldn’t have happened with Portnoy in the band.
HOWEVER… I have to admit that hearing Terminal Velocity and LTE3 has gotten me missing Portnoy in the band. There’s just a sound that is created when Portnoy plays to Petrucci’s riffs. They each have their own style, and the combination of the two is something special. And after a decade apart, they’ve still got it.  I think overall, DT is better off staying the course they’re on now.

I think a one-off show is the most likely scenario, and I would be disappointed if that never happened.  I would be perfectly happy with this band calling it a day with MM still behind the kit.
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Online Stadler

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #156 on: August 05, 2021, 04:25:02 PM »
REALLY hard to listen to some of the lyrics on the new NMB album and not think of situations like this. "The Way It Had To Be" in particular.

Offline DTwwbwMP

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #157 on: August 05, 2021, 05:40:36 PM »
REALLY hard to listen to some of the lyrics on the new NMB album and not think of situations like this. "The Way It Had To Be" in particular.

 :tup :hefdaddy

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #158 on: August 05, 2021, 09:57:37 PM »
Haven't seen it mentioned - but i'd be cool with MP coming back as co-producer on a future album.

Ooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh nononononono... this has disaster written all over it.

... but it'd be a cool reality show.


Offline gzarruk

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #159 on: August 05, 2021, 10:35:02 PM »
Haven't seen it mentioned - but i'd be cool with MP coming back as co-producer on a future album.

Ooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh nononononono... this has disaster written all over it.

... but it'd be a cool reality show.



:lol yeah, not a good idea
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Dedalus

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #160 on: August 05, 2021, 10:41:07 PM »
Haven't seen it mentioned - but i'd be cool with MP coming back as co-producer on a future album.

Ooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh nononononono... this has disaster written all over it.

... but it'd be a cool reality show.



:lol yeah, not a good idea

The drums would probably sound like the bass from And Justice for All.

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #161 on: August 06, 2021, 12:29:39 AM »
The drums would probably sound like the bass from And Justice for All.

 :rollin
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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #162 on: August 06, 2021, 02:23:20 AM »
The drums would probably sound like the bass from And Justice for All.

So, like A Dramatic Turn Of Events? :P
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Offline JLa

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #163 on: August 06, 2021, 02:57:26 AM »
Personally I don't see it happening. It's really good to see MP working with JP and JR again on solo albums and LTE, so if anything I think we might see more of that.

But in DT? Nope.

Offline darkshade

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #164 on: August 06, 2021, 07:11:21 AM »
The drums would probably sound like the bass from And Justice for All.

So, like A Dramatic Turn Of Events? :P

For both albums, the newcomer is lower in the mix than everyone else. Hmmm...

Offline darkshade

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #165 on: August 06, 2021, 07:12:05 AM »
Personally I don't see it happening. It's really good to see MP working with JP and JR again on solo albums and LTE, so if anything I think we might see more of that.

But in DT? Nope.

MP (I think) said LTE4 would be coming out sooner than later (which makes sense considering Tony Levin's age)

Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #166 on: August 06, 2021, 09:03:07 AM »
The drums would probably sound like the bass from And Justice for All.

So, like A Dramatic Turn Of Events? :P

For both albums, the newcomer is lower in the mix than everyone else. Hmmm...

huh?

Newstead's bass in justice is either mixed out/inaudible on every track. I guess you could say that maybe Petrucci reacted a bit to MP's hot drum mixes in the previous DT records and wanted MM slotted into the mix more reasonably. But like I just turned on Bridges in the Sky and I hear lots of cymbals, snare, and kick drum heads. But not sure what this post is about
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Offline PetFish

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #167 on: August 06, 2021, 10:27:38 PM »
The drums would probably sound like the bass from And Justice for All.

*oof*

Offline Pax

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #168 on: August 07, 2021, 04:26:11 AM »
Maybe one day when DT decide to quit, and then they reunite as old people
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Offline bosk1

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #169 on: August 07, 2021, 02:18:28 PM »
Three things:

1.  First off, as for the question posed, let me just get something obvious out of the way before offering my opinion:  There are perhaps three people on this board who know the current bandmembers, band management, and MP better than me.  (maybe a couple of others I am unaware of or am forgetting)  It's not like I would be over at any of their houses for Sunday dinner or anything.  And given the history of the band, I am a relative newcomer in terms of actually knowing any of them personally.  But I know them better than most here. 

And that being said, my answer is:  I don't have any clue.

There are certainly MANY factors that seem to weigh heavily against it, such as:  (1) The band have said that they have no intention of bringing in anyone new in any position; (2) They have all said they REALLY like having Mangini in the band, and he has said the same; (3) They play to a click now, which JP REALLY likes, and MP would likely not want to do that; (4) There was somewhat of a rift between James and Mike, and although it is likely that time has lessened that rift, we don't know how much; and (5) Things are just different now, and a lot of things would have to change internally within the structure of the band for MP to return.

But none of those are insurmountable.  Mangini could step down tomorrow.  The band could decide to part ways with him due to "creative differences" we are unaware of, or any number of other things.  As Kev pointed out in his post on page 1, even if there were issues or even if they had a rough contingency plan in the back of their minds if and when something were to happen, they wouldn't voice that to the public.  We have no idea.  JP and band management are pretty comfortable around me, and have let me in on some "secrets" and behind-the-scenes stuff, but they almost for sure wouldn't share that kind of stuff. 

That said, whenever I have seen them and talked to them, they have seemed very happy with how things are now, including Mangini.  I have seen nothing to indicate that he would leave in the forseeable future.  But he could.  And if he did, I can't say whether the band would ask MP back.  If you hypothetically sat the four of them down and tried to make them answer, I wouldn't be surprised if some of them couldn't, or if they had differing opinions that couldn't be worked out together until they actually found themselves in a situation where they had to decide.  Personally, I could see it going either way. 

So, yeah, my honest answer is:  I don't know.  If I had to speculate, my educated guess is that I don't see it realistically happening in the near future, and more likely than not, not happening in the long term either.  But I wouldn't be even slightly shocked if it did.

2.  Second, yes, this topic has been beaten to death.  But it is a legitimate question, as long as the discussion is kept respectful.  There is no need to bash the person who posted the question, or to second-guess his motives, his fandom, or how long he has been here.  Honestly, it's kind of nice to have the discussion confined to a dedicated thread rather than having it come up as a tangent in several others. 

3.  Regarding this: 
I know we have a couple of lawyers here. I would be interested in hearing their take on what they believe the legal structure of the band would have to be in order for MP to return.

I don't think any of us can speculate, because that is ultimately something the 4 existing members and MP would have to decide among themselves based on what they want to see happen, and what they can legally do based on the existing corporate documents.  I don't know for certain how things are structured now.  But my educated guess is that, relevant to what you are asking, it is something like this:

Each member is likely paid a base salary from the parent corporation (or from whichever subsidiary handles payroll).  I would hazard a guess that the base salaries are close to equal, if not completely equal, but that is entirely a factor of what the band members agreed to.  Above that, certain members might perhaps be entitled to additional compensation based on other roles they have taken on.  Again, I don't know for certain whether that is how they are currently structured, but it would not be surprising either way.  Beyond that, they can opt to pay out discretionary bonuses (usually at the end of the tax year) after all other expenses are paid based on how the company performed financially, how much is in the bank, etc.  Those could be equal, or could have weighted percentages based on any number of factors. 

I think one of the things you might have been getting at in your post, Jammin, is whether Mangini is an owner or just an employee.  The first line item I mentioned above (base salary) is likely the same or close to it, whether or not he is an owner.  The other two items could vary wildly based on whether or not he is an owner.  That is especially true of item 3.  If he is only an employee, the corporate documents could very likely spell out that he is not entitled to any bonuses or other compensation that the owners would get on top of their base salaries.  But I have no idea whether or not he is an owner.  [note: they are ALL employees; the distinction I am making is that the other 4 are likely owners in addition to being employees.  Not sure about Mangini's status.  And another wrinkle is that various members likely fulfill corporate officer rules as well, which they could have decided would entitle those filling those roles to additional compensation.]

In terms of specific duties assigned to different members, that is largely up to them as well.  Some of it might be spelled out in the corporate documents.  Other stuff might be decided informally.  Hard to say.  We know MP did a LOT when he was in the band.  Whether or not he would take on all of those duties if he hypothetically returned to the band isn't likely a legal question, but just a question of what he and the others would want to do. 

But that said, I am not aware of any specific legal impediment to MP returning, or to him assuming none, some, or all of the roles he had before.  It is just a question of what they could agree to. 

[*also note that, of the lawyers on the board, I believe PG has more specific entertainment law experience than I do, and may be able to weigh in to provide additional detail and insight, and possibly correct some things I have said, if he is so inclined]


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« Last Edit: August 07, 2021, 02:48:09 PM by bosk1 »
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Offline emtee

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #170 on: August 07, 2021, 02:40:12 PM »
Very nice post, Bosk. Honest and full of insight that comes from knowing the guys.

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #171 on: August 07, 2021, 03:48:52 PM »
JP and band management are pretty comfortable around me, and have let me in on some "secrets" and behind-the-scenes stuff, but they almost for sure wouldn't share that kind of stuff. 

I know it's almost pointless to ask, but out of sheer curiosity... is there a way to tell what kind of stuff, in generic terms, you were let in on, without actually saying what it is? or maybe some past stuff that now has become general knowledge but you knew long before?
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Offline bosk1

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #172 on: August 07, 2021, 04:05:09 PM »
One example that is common knowledge is, during the Astonishing tour, JP shared with me the set list for the then-upcoming I&W and Beyond tour.  Another that is not common knowledge is that, prior to Covid, the band were working on a tour with another pretty big name act.  Unfortunately, that probably isn't going to happen now. 
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Offline Trav86

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #173 on: August 07, 2021, 04:09:22 PM »
One example that is common knowledge is, during the Astonishing tour, JP shared with me the set list for the then-upcoming I&W and Beyond tour.  Another that is not common knowledge is that, prior to Covid, the band were working on a tour with another pretty big name act.  Unfortunately, that probably isn't going to happen now.

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Offline darkshade

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Re: YOUR pct of chances that MP EVER returns to DT
« Reply #174 on: August 07, 2021, 04:14:21 PM »
The drums would probably sound like the bass from And Justice for All.

So, like A Dramatic Turn Of Events? :P

For both albums, the newcomer is lower in the mix than everyone else. Hmmm...

huh?

Newstead's bass in justice is either mixed out/inaudible on every track. I guess you could say that maybe Petrucci reacted a bit to MP's hot drum mixes in the previous DT records and wanted MM slotted into the mix more reasonably. But like I just turned on Bridges in the Sky and I hear lots of cymbals, snare, and kick drum heads. But not sure what this post is about

Obviously you can't get away with mixing the drums completely out, but they are WAY too low in the mix, moreso than any other rock or metal album by a major label band I can think of.