What are your FOUR least favorite Dream Theater studio albums?

[WilliamMunny]

Yeah, for me, the bottom 4 take little to no thought.

When Dream and Day Unite—I've given this a spin every few years since the mid '90s...it's interesting in a 'oh, so that's where they come from' sort of way, but it's nothing I actively seek out.

Black Clouds & Silver Linings—This album is the second biggest dissappointment for me as a fan. To me, this is the sound of a 'tired' band.

The Astonishing—I've already written volumes on why this record just doesn't work (for me), so I'm not going to pile on. There's a good 45-minutes of music in there, but, well...

Honestly, that's it. Every other record does it for me in one way or another. If I had to pick, I'd probably say DT12 from the standpoint that I don't revisit it very often, but even without the benefit of a classic track, I enjoy it every time I listen to it.

Kudos to John and the boys—I can't think of another band that has been able to provide me with 11 solid albums of material. In a lot of ways, their development as a band has paralleled my development as a man/fan/listener, and they really are the soundtrack to my adulthood.

[King Postwhore]

WD&DU
The Astonishing
SC
Awake

[Volante99]

BETTER-->| Systematic Chaos >Dream Theater >Distance over Time >The Astonishing | <-- WORSE

This is my exact ranking for bottom 4.

Systematic Chaos- DT is on autopilot here. Seems somewhat by the numbers, dispassionate. The album just feels like burnout. Consistent and “listenable” is probably the highest praise I can give it.

DT12- JP on a big Rush kick. The heart is there but it’s marred by poor production, a bit too much cheese (Enemy Inside, Along for the Ride), and an epic misfire that is Illumination Theory. LaBrie starting to show signs of a limited capacity in the studio.

Distance/Time - Too loud, bombastic production, but not enough meat to the songs. Some of the worst DT material ever (Room 137, Viper King, Pale Blue Dot) with only a couple choice cuts. Myung and Mangini play their asses off but it’s not enough to save an extremely overrated album

Astonishing- 20 minutes of inspired music with easily the best production/sound of the Mangini Era (which it doesn’t get enough credit for) rendered unlistenable by almost 2 hours of bloat. A for effort, noble attempt at something new, but probably needed someone in the room with Petrucci to tell him “no”.

[Wim Kruithof]

and an epic misfire that is Illumination Theory.

I honestly can't believe how you can label 'misfire' at Illumination Theory. To me, it is one of there better epics. The middle part is a blessing I can't ever hear enough.

Some of the worst DT material ever (Room 137, Viper King, Pale Blue Dot)

Pale Blue Dot is next to Barstool Warrior and At Wits End the best track on the album, I would say. But since I've been on this forum the conclusion constantly comes to mind that Dream Theater fans love there band for so many different reasons. Which of course, is a wonderful thing.

[Volante99]

For IT the orchestral section and the Petrucci solo section (with some great playing by Mangini) afterwards are the only standout moments for me. That’s maybe 3 minutes of a +20 minute song. It’s their worst epic in my opinion.

Pale Blue Dot isn’t offensively bad, but it’s just boring to me. I’ve listened to it 20-30 times and I honestly can’t even remember any of it beyond the “God Creators…” chorus.

[The Letter M]

WDADU
FII
DT12
TA

The first two are a bit of a no-brainer for me, and I seem to follow the crowd on that one. Looking at the results, I'm surprised so many folks would take The Astonishing over SC and BC&SL, but I guess some folks have just either warmed up to The Astonishing over the years, or just really disliked SC and/or BC&SL more. Personally, I quite enjoy those albums and would take them over the two lesser Mangini-era albums.

-Marc.

[DTA]

WDADU
FII
DT12
TA

The first two are a bit of a no-brainer for me, and I seem to follow the crowd on that one. Looking at the results, I'm surprised so many folks would take The Astonishing over SC and BC&SL, but I guess some folks have just either warmed up to The Astonishing over the years, or just really disliked SC and/or BC&SL more. Personally, I quite enjoy those albums and would take them over the two lesser Mangini-era albums.

-Marc.

BC&SL and SC sound so DT-by-numbers that it’s impossible for me to rank them any higher than just “listenable” (I rank 8VM in between them with the epic being the only song that really feels better  than average) with SC being my favorite of the three by a pretty wide margin. Black Clouds is so beyond bloated with each song besides Wither and possibly TCoT being way longer than necessary. The drums sound so horribly loud and the MP vocal section in Nightmare is the absolute peak of DT awfulness. There’s good moments in each song but they’re surrounded by so much repetition and pointless shit that I wonder if they realized the album was too short by their standards and padded the songs just to make it longer. Everything they’ve done since (besides Illumination Theory which is a hot mess) has been pretty above average quality with The Astonishing being a career highlight (to me at least).

[LCArenas]

-WDADU. Easily my least favorite. It has some great songs (The Killing Hand, Afterlife, Only a Matter of Time...), but I learned to love all those songs I just mentioned because I heard them being sung by JLB in later live shows. Charlie just isn't James. And the mixing was awful, too.
-Systematic Chaos/BC&SL, Black Clouds being noticeably worse than SC. SC is  actually pretty great but it has some awful lows, and BCSL sounds really uninspired to me. It seems that the recording and writing methods had become really formulaic at that point.  Still some bangers here and there like The Count of Tuscany if you try not to hear the lyrics
-DT12. Also really uninspiring. It has its great moments, but it doesn't do much to set itself apart from their latest albums. And the mixing too, man. Come on!

[Wim Kruithof]

I don't think there is a band somewere out there who's fanbase has so many variety in opinions then Dream Theater. Metallica for example, I think almost every fan they have wil put Master of Puppets and Ride the Lightning at the top of there list. But Dream Theater has so many aspects and there's so much to discover in each track, that they're loved for so many different opinions. My favorite albums (Black Clouds and Train of Thought) are many times others least favorites... my least favorites (Falling into Infinity and the Astonishing) are others favorites.

But what I do not understand is the dislike on Dominici. To me, he was brilliant on the first album and I love When Dream and Day unite. The intro of the Killing Hand still is one of the best intro's they ever made.

[MarkFitDT]

11 WDADU - some great songs but poor Production and Charlie's voice is ok but nothing more.
12 FII - some great songs - HK, LITS,HY & TOT, some v poor - BMS, TAMP, JLMB & YNM.
13 BCSL - love TCOT and ANTR even though the solo section drags on too long imo and enough has been said about the cookie monster vocals. The rest is really poor.
14 SC - DT by numbers. I cant remember the last time i listened to any of this album barring ITPOE 1 and 2.

[jayvee3]

BC&SL: Just no from me. Love the Count, like the beautiful agony section of ANTR, that’s about it. This was the one I felt Portnoy was just in cruise control, it felt overall uninspired and I almost never listen to it bar TCOT.

WDADU: Pretty much mirror many others here. Actually really like it, just can’t quite get past the production and Charlie. In a perfect world, would love a studio version of this with James one day…

8V: Just never got the love for it as much as many. The nuggets are cool and I do really enjoy the title track (maybe not quite as much as some though). After that, SS is fine, but the rest is just again something I rarely revisit. Felt again that many songs were just mailing it in. This could have been an EP like Change of Seasons and probably would have been one of the best things they had ever done..

SC: I actually rather like this album, it at least feels inspired in the sense it has some nice direction, and I like many of the songs. Repentance is a big no, otherwise I like it, and find it fun and pretty inoffensive overall. Lands in this spot purely as I like the others more, but could flip-flop with TA, which is about on par, just different highs and lows.

[Cool Chris]

When Dream and Day Unite. I can't really get past how wrong Charlie sounds here. Not bad, just wrong for the music, which is what the other guys said was not his fault, just a problem that needed correcting for them to go forward. Some good songwriting moments, but not much meat on the bone for me, despite the youthful exuberance,

Falling into Infinity. I&W and Awake were my two favorite albums, and I couldn't comprehend how they could release a dud such as this. I admit now that this came out at a horrible time in my life. There hasn't been since an album I wanted to like more. My life was shit, but surely a new DT album could help me through, right? RIGHT?! Nope. I cannot say how much of that experience helped shape my negative opinion of this album. I just never liked it, outside of ToT and HY's Budokan resurgence, this album does nothing for me.

After these two, it gets a lot harder. And maybe goes by process of elimination.

It isn't I&W, Awake, Scenes, 6D (though I only love maybe half that album), ToT, 8VM, SC, or any of the 4 MM albums. Which leaves:

BC&SL. This album isn't terribly offensive in any way, well... other than ARoP, that part in ANtR, and largely forgettable vocal melodies and lyrics (though lyrics are often the last thing I am critical of). This album is just kinda... there. Rarely do I ever think "hey, I wanna listen to that song from BC&SL!"

So, what's #4?

5 minutes later....

Scenes is great. I never listen to 6D disc 2, but disc 1 is so damn good. ToT, 8VM, and SC have their share of duds, but there is so much on them all I highly enjoy. I rank ADToE among their best. DT12 has fewer highs than other albums but not many lows. I like TA more than many here. And while I don't love DoT, it is still quite good.

I don't know. Proverbial gun to head... DT12. Could be a different answer tomorrow.

[nobloodyname]

In order from the worst (or least favourite ):

The Astonishing: colossal mis-step. Should never have been called a Dream Theater album. Released as a special project featuring a number of guest singers, it may have been slightly more interesting. Visuals for the tour were good, though
DT12: although I've rated The Astonishing as my least favourite, the wooden spoon could well have gone to DT12 since it's a mono-paced, poorly produced snoozefest. And in the Illumination Theory, they wrote their poorest epic by quite some margin
Awake: this one is strange for me since its individual songs are better than the sum of its whole. I wasn't a Dream Theater fan when this album came out (I jumped on the bandwagon after Six Degrees) but if I had been, I do wonder what I'd have made of the stylistic shift
Systematic Chaos: I love Constant Motion and The Dark Eternal Night used to be fun live with MP in the band. And it spawned their best making of documentary, too. But it's loud, far too loud. In the Presence of Enemies should never have been split and Redemption is about six minutes too long. I enjoy the break down in The Ministry of Lost Souls, though. And I'd certainly rate the album as a whole quite a bit higher than Awake. But you asked for four

[SwedishGoose]

Systematic Chaos and Black Clouds & Silvee Linings take the bottom positions for me
When Dream and Day Unite gets as low as it gets on account of the singing and production
Distance Over Time was to me a huge disappointment after the amazing Astonishing.... such an unadventurous album

Hope the next one sees them thinking a bit out of the box again

[ytserush]

Systematic Chaos.

[Nel]

Oh, this one's easy.

When Dream And Day Unite: It's a rough first album. I got into it about halfway through my collecting DT, and at that point I was already used to James' voice and their post-Scenes sound, so... yeah. I can still appreciate parts of it like The Killing Hand.

Falling Into Infinity: It's a weird one for me. This was one of the last DT albums I heard when I was getting into the band, and it doesn't feel anything at all like the band to me. Felt like they were going for a more approachable 90s sound whilst trying to stay prog-metal and it's just... off to me? Certainly didn't feel like the logical middle point between Awake and Scenes that i thought it was going to be when I bought it.

The Self-Titled Album: I thought I was going to love this album. I was heavily anticipating it. A Dramatic Turn Of Events was one of my favorites by them, so surely the follow-up was going to keep that energy going. But... I have listened to this album at least 4 or 5 times and still can't remember ANYTHING from it except The Enemy Inside (on account of being a single) and the beginning of that song that sounds like a Rush song. It's the first time that ever happened to me with Dream Theater: can't remember what any of the songs sound like from memory, can't remember the track names from memory. I DO remember getting through that first listen and just thinking "this is the album they decided to make self-titled? Really?" It bums me out. I don't want to feel that way about a DT album. I want to like DT albums. I wrote it off as a one-off stumble (to me, just my opinion), but then...

The Astonishing. I only made it through this whole two-hour monster once. Out of 34 tracks, I only liked eight enough to add to my playlist. I can appreciate the effort, the ambition, I'm glad they did what they wanted to work on. I've just never been one for these long "play on a stage" albums that bands sometimes do. Y'know, with "acts" and "scenes" and all that. There's usually too many transition tracks, the albums themselves are long as hell and the stories never interest me enough to feel like the project was warranted. I'd put disliking this one on me. The band was fine. They can pursue whatever they want. It's just not my kind of thing. But that does bring me to...

The Runner-Up - Distance Over Time: So yeah, I'm only putting this down as a fifth one because much like the self-titled, I have a lot of trouble recalling what the songs sounded like or what the track names are. What keeps this out of the bottom four is that I do remember enjoying it the first time around; it's just that nothing from the album really stuck with me.

It makes me wonder if I outgrew the band at some point. I loved A Dramatic Turn of Events. The songs were great and it showed me that despite Portnoy being gone, the band could still put out a kickass album. But I haven't really had that with the three albums since. Was it a fluke? Did my tastes change? I dunno. But it's wild to think that I haven't really enjoyed a DT album in ten years (it's already 2021 omg).

[Wim Kruithof]

Nel, I can follow what you’re writing but sometimes - to me at least - there is a proper investment needed to dig yourself through new material. I’ve been appreciating the Astonishing much more since I bought and red the book (althought it would be so much better if a woman like Famke Jansen sung the femaleparts). Best way to adapt to a new album is to give it time.

[Nel]

I have so much less time, honestly. Way busier with life than I was a decade back, and there's so much more music I listen to. If an album doesn't grab me in the first three or four listens, it tends to just get dragged down under all the other stuff, never to be heard again.

[Wim Kruithof]

I have so much less time, honestly. Way busier with life than I was a decade back, and there's so much more music I listen to. If an album doesn't grab me in the first three or four listens, it tends to just get dragged down under all the other stuff, never to be heard again.

Because life can't be all listening to music, I made a choice that's basicly the opposite. About 95% of the music I listen to is Dream Theater, the rest goes to Pink Floyd. This gives me time to truly dig in the band that just seemed to have conquered my heart for most part.

[pg1067]

Nel, I can follow what you’re writing but sometimes - to me at least - there is a proper investment needed to dig yourself through new material. I’ve been appreciating the Astonishing much more since I bought and red the book (althought it would be so much better if a woman like Famke Jansen sung the femaleparts). Best way to adapt to a new album is to give it time.

Famke Janssen sings...in addition to being 6'0" and hot AF?!

[Wim Kruithof]

Famke Janssen sings...in addition to being 6'0" and hot AF?!

Are you saying you do not like her voice, neither it would be a privelage to the album?

[pg1067]

Famke Janssen sings...in addition to being 6'0" and hot AF?!

Are you saying you do not like her voice, neither it would be a privelage to the album?

I think her voice is great, but I wasn't aware that she sang.  It would be as if you suggested they have Julia Roberts sing.  Not that Wikipedia is the be all and end all of anything, but her Wikipedia page doesn't mention anything about her being a singer:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famke_Janssen

[Wim Kruithof]

I understand, but believe me, in Nightwish her voice is gorgious and it would have raised the Astonishing in my top 5 perhaps…

[pg1067]

I understand, but believe me, in Nightwish her voice is gorgious and it would have raised the Astonishing in my top 5 perhaps…

Oh...FFS.

You mentioned Famke Janssen.  Famke Janssen is a 56-year old Dutch actress, probably best known for playing Xenia Onatopp in a mid-90s James Bond movie, Jean Gray in the X-Men movies, and the ex-wife of Liam Neeson's character in the Taken movies.

According to Wikipedia, the singer for the band Nightwish is a 40-year old Dutch woman named Floor Jansen (who, while also apparently being 6'0" isn't nearly as hot as Famke).

Needless to say, Famke Janssen and Floor Jansen are not the same person.

[Wim Kruithof]

Oh...FFS.

You mentioned Famke Janssen.  Famke Janssen is a 56-year old Dutch actress, probably best known for playing Xenia Onatopp in a mid-90s James Bond movie, Jean Gray in the X-Men movies, and the ex-wife of Liam Neeson's character in the Taken movies.

According to Wikipedia, the singer for the band Nightwish is a 40-year old Dutch woman named Floor Jansen (who, while also apparently being 6'0" isn't nearly as hot as Famke).

Needless to say, Famke Janssen and Floor Jansen are not the same person.

LOL of course I meant Floor, what a stupid mistake by me. Must be the Karmeliet triple. 🤭

[The Letter M]

I understand, but believe me, in Nightwish her voice is gorgious and it would have raised the Astonishing in my top 5 perhaps…

Oh...FFS.

You mentioned Famke Janssen.  Famke Janssen is a 56-year old Dutch actress, probably best known for playing Xenia Onatopp in a mid-90s James Bond movie, Jean Gray in the X-Men movies, and the ex-wife of Liam Neeson's character in the Taken movies.

According to Wikipedia, the singer for the band Nightwish is a 40-year old Dutch woman named Floor Jansen (who, while also apparently being 6'0" isn't nearly as hot as Famke).

Needless to say, Famke Janssen and Floor Jansen are not the same person.

 

I was gonna say, I was pretty sure Famke Janssen wasn't a vocalist. To be fair, Floor and Famke are both five letters and begin with F, sooooo...

-Marc.

[pg1067]

I understand, but believe me, in Nightwish her voice is gorgious and it would have raised the Astonishing in my top 5 perhaps…

Oh...FFS.

You mentioned Famke Janssen.  Famke Janssen is a 56-year old Dutch actress, probably best known for playing Xenia Onatopp in a mid-90s James Bond movie, Jean Gray in the X-Men movies, and the ex-wife of Liam Neeson's character in the Taken movies.

According to Wikipedia, the singer for the band Nightwish is a 40-year old Dutch woman named Floor Jansen (who, while also apparently being 6'0" isn't nearly as hot as Famke).

Needless to say, Famke Janssen and Floor Jansen are not the same person.

 

I was gonna say, I was pretty sure Famke Janssen wasn't a vocalist. To be fair, Floor and Famke are both five letters and begin with F, sooooo...

-Marc.

I mean...if I had been familiar with Floor Jansen I might have picked up on it earlier.   

[Nel]

Because life can't be all listening to music, I made a choice that's basicly the opposite. About 95% of the music I listen to is Dream Theater, the rest goes to Pink Floyd. This gives me time to truly dig in the band that just seemed to have conquered my heart for most part.

That just sounds so boring for someone like me though. I need variety. There's far too much other music for me just to ignore it all. If I just listened to prog all the time I'd go bonkers. 

[Dublagent66]

My first 3 picks were easy.  The 4th was a toss up between SC and BC&SL.  I went with...
However, I still like BC&SL quite a bit.

WDADU
DT12
TA

...BC&SL

[the_silent_man]

Weakest:

Astonishing:
A lot of potential and some excellent sections, but spread too thin - not good enough of a story and not enough tasty musical ideas to warrant 2+ hours. Don't dislike it, but there's not much here that draws me back these days.

WD&DU
Actually some really interesting and energetic musical ideas. But, as with so many others I can't get behind the vocals (apart from in small doses) and the production does not help either.

DT12
Again, not bad, but nothing really stands out against any of the previous albums. It's a bit uninspired by DT standards. Consistently average. And the production actively hurts the album.

SC
This was a hard one, could have also gone to Octavarium or FII. Just a mixed bag really and some identity crisis going on with several songs sounding like other bands. Love ITPOE, Ministry and TDEN is great fun, especially live. The rest are just ok and Prophets of War is one of their worst.

[BlacklistJones]

SC - There was a distinct change in their sound when they moved to Roadrunner. I know that this has been debated to death, and I'm not looking for that, but I think it's clear that they were attempting to blend into the crowd that they now belonged to. The songs were still progressive, but there was a different kind of heaviness that just never appealed to me. Mind you, the entire album isn't lost with me. As with EVERY Dream Theater album, there are still a couple of gems there for me.

BC&SL - Similar to SC, this is a continuation of a sound that didn't connect well with me - musically and lyrically. In fact, for me, it's their weakest album lyrically. Tons of cheese factor going on here, unfortunately. I don't mind ANTR, and Wither has its moments, but this is by far - in my opinion - their weakest effort in the catalogue.

TOT - Being completely honest, this is only here because we were asked to give four. I really don't mind this album. There is an obvious theme here, and Portnoy even brought up, at the time of the release, that this was their ode to heavy metal, essentially, so it wasn't like the result was some left-field surprise. "In The Name of God" is stellar and still would rank quite high on my list of DT tracks. This album is here only because there are several other albums of theirs that I would choose to listen to over this one on any given day.

TA - Ambitious, respectfully, but too ambitious. The story is flat, ambiguous at times, and simply not interesting enough for me to hang on for 2+ hours. I remember the first time I listened to it all the way through and it was drifting me to sleep. For as much as I want to equate that to just getting old, being in your early thirties is just not old enough for that to be a justifiable excuse. Again, I greatly respect the gang for taking on a project like this - as I can imagine it to be quite the undertaking in general, but it just didn't hit me.

[nobloodyname]

Famke Janssen sings...in addition to being 6'0" and hot AF?!

Are you saying you do not like her voice, neither it would be a privelage to the album?

I think her voice is great, but I wasn't aware that she sang.  It would be as if you suggested they have Julia Roberts sing.  Not that Wikipedia is the be all and end all of anything, but her Wikipedia page doesn't mention anything about her being a singer:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famke_Janssen

This is brilliant That's all I wanted to say.

[DTwwbwMP]

Scenes from a Memory A++
Images and Words A+-
Awake A+
Train of Thought A
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence A-
Octavarium B++
Falling into Infinity B+
A Dramatic Turn of Events B
Systematic Chaos B-
Black Clouds and Silver Linings B--
When Dream and Day Unite C
Dream Theater C-
Distance over Time C--
The Astonishing F-----------------------------------

[Kotowboy]

The Astonishing F-----------------------------------

 

[CDrice]

I don't particularly dislike any of these albums, but I just don't go back to them all too often other than for specific songs.

When Dream and Day Unite
Falling into Infinity
Awake
Systematic Chaos