Battle of the 80s Rock LP's Volume 5: Eliminator vs Escape

[pg1067]

As an aside, check out the beginning of this song...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV5tOtxw0UE

What the  ?

But in a good way.   

Then, check out "Legs"...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUDcTLaWJuo

Ah yes...the '80s...when dorks and rednecks bullied beautiful people.   

[Stadler]

I knew nothing of ZZ Top before Eliminator, and I ALWAYS viewed them as a caricature - those weird old guys who tried hard to be cool but weren't because they couldn't play for shit (again, I knew nothing of their early stuff).  That was honestly a big part of the buzz around ZZ Top was that the bass player couldn't actually play his instrument (because, let's be honest, can you actually hear any bass on any of those well-known songs from Eliminator?).  There was also this thing about them having livestock roaming around the stage at concerts.  No idea if that was true to any degree.  Journey was a bit of a chick band, sure, but at least they were cool and played well.  Of course, Journey went in the toilet with Raised on Radio, but Neal Schon (and, by extension, the band) got a new level of respect when the Hear 'n' Aid video was released and all of the metal guys started talking about how they were blown away by Neal's playing.  Of course, anyone who had followed Journey since the early days (not me) knew what a good player he was, but this made things public.  All the while, ZZ Top were making Eliminator II and III and even titled an album "Recycler" (if I remember correctly).

That is kind of unfair considering Gibbons and the producer or engineer (cannot remember exactly) removed any bass and drums that had been recorded for the album and replaced them with a synthesized bass and programmed drums.  In fact, the drums were all programmed at what was considered the most popular beats per minute at the time.  So if the album sounds like Billy Gibbons singing and playing his guitar while the others are doing nothing, it's because the album is Billy Gibbons singing and playing his guitar while others did nothing (that was left on the final version).

It's the engineer, Lindsey Hudson or something like that. It's an interesting story, and there are claims that Hudson co-wrote the entire album with Gibbons and got no credit (Hill and Beard, who didn't appear much if at all on the record, did get co-writing for all songs).

[bosk1]

So... when? 

When they came out, ZZ Top would have CRUSHED this poll.   Journey was for your girlfriend, and that one obligatory slow dance at school (and you hoped you could brush up against... ) but otherwise, nah.   ZZ Top was cool as beans, cars, hot babes, and beards.   

Somewhere in the 30-odd years since release, things have changed. 

  Your anecdotal experience does not match the popular reception of those two albums at all.  Not to take anything away from ZZ Top at all (they aren't my thing, but I don't deny that Eliminator was incredibly well received), but Escape was HUGE.  Like ZZ Top, Journey had 3 of their 5 singles crack the top 10 (#2, #4, and #9), and its two others in the top 20.  That was at the time.  And they were headlining arenas and festival shows at the time, and created their own touring and production company that practically invented the idea of giant scrims and video screens, which they then leased out to other bands.  I'm not sure how you can imply that Journey were just a B-tier band that would have gotten "crushed" by ZZ Top back when the albums were released. 

[King Postwhore]

The one thing that ZZ Top had an advantage was MTV.  MTV was a hype machine showing videos of ZZ Top every hour.  When Escape came out, MTV was a fledgling station just getting it's feet wet.

[bosk1]

True.  I don't recall seeing videos for any of the songs from Escape on MTV.  Not sure they even made any.  But given when Escape was released, that would not be a surprise.  They were definitely in the videos/MTV game by the time Frontiers released.  But they were absolutely on radio, and were pretty unavoidable.  Heck, they even had an Atari 2600 Journey Escape video game! 

By the time Eliminator came out, MTV was part of the fabric of society, and those videos with ZZ Top's distinctive look and the distinctive style of the videos made them a household name.  If we are comparing relative success during the same time period, it might be more apt to compare Frontiers.  That album was still massive for Journey.  And I think, at the time, it surpassed Escape in terms of sales.  But I am not 100% sure on that, since I cannot find sales numbers by over time.  I just know that Escape going diamond was helped by that album's staying power, and the fact that it has continued to sell and have songs come back into the mainstream well after the '80s. 

[KevShmev]

Yeah, Journey didn't really get heavy MTV airplay until they started air keyboarding.

[bosk1]

Correlation or causation?  Hmm... 

[TAC]

Is Journey hair metal too Kev?

[pg1067]

True.  I don't recall seeing videos for any of the songs from Escape on MTV.  Not sure they even made any.  But given when Escape was released, that would not be a surprise.  They were definitely in the videos/MTV game by the time Frontiers released.  But they were absolutely on radio, and were pretty unavoidable.  Heck, they even had an Atari 2600 Journey Escape video game! 

By the time Eliminator came out, MTV was part of the fabric of society, and those videos with ZZ Top's distinctive look and the distinctive style of the videos made them a household name.  If we are comparing relative success during the same time period, it might be more apt to compare Frontiers.  That album was still massive for Journey.  And I think, at the time, it surpassed Escape in terms of sales.  But I am not 100% sure on that, since I cannot find sales numbers by over time.  I just know that Escape going diamond was helped by that album's staying power, and the fact that it has continued to sell and have songs come back into the mainstream well after the '80s.

Coincidentally, Escape was released the day before MTV debuted.

If you look at what MTV played in the early days, you see a lot of live footage videos from American artists and actual concept videos from British artists, because there was already a demand for videos in Britain before MTV existed.

I also don't recall any videos from Escape, and looking at the five singles from Escape, I don't remember a video for any of those songs.  There's a video on YouTube that claims to be an "Official Music Video" for Don't Stop Believing, but once you click on it, it admits to being a fan-made video.  There's an official video of Open Arms, but it's just live footage from the home video they did from the Escape tour.

Journey really got into the video scene with the follow up album Frontiers, which was released about a year and a half after escape.  Separate Ways and Faithfully (and maybe one other song) had videos in heavy rotation in 1983-84, which was around the same time that the Eliminator videos were out there (Eliminator was released seven weeks after Frontiers).  Since Frontiers wasn't nearly as well-received as Escape, the Eliminator videos were more popular than the Frontiers videos.

The one thing Journey had that ZZ Top didn't have was this:



The game play video is hilarious to watch:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2h-bCOI4WU

[hefdaddy42]

Separate Ways is, of course, a legendarily awful video.

[bosk1]

  As much time as I spent in arcades, I wonder why I never knew that existed.  (or maybe just forgot)  Hilarious that they have Herbie Herbert guarding the stage.

[KevShmev]

  Since Frontiers wasn't nearly as well-received as Escape, the Eliminator videos were more popular than the Frontiers videos.

 

I think it's more that the ZZ Top videos were more memorable (in a good way) and visually striking, with the Eliminator car and the three models.

[KevShmev]

Is Journey hair metal too Kev?

Nope, just full-on gangsta rap.

[King Postwhore]

Is Journey hair metal too Kev?

Nope, just full-on gangsta rap.

Be good to yo self is amazing.

[TAC]

[hefdaddy42]

Is Journey hair metal too Kev?

Nope, just full-on gangsta rap.

That's fantastic.

[jammindude]

Stone In Love got played in heavy rotation in the early days of MTV, but it was the live version.

[King Postwhore]

Stone In Love got played in heavy rotation in the early days of MTV, but it was the live version.

That was from the Blue Jean Network.   Didnt get the airplay that the 3 big hits got on every day in the mid 80's.

[jammindude]

What was the Blue Jean Network?

All I know is it seemed like SIL was on constantly. Granted, my parents got cable in early 82, so MTV hadn’t been on long and didn’t have much content yet. Another video that I saw CONSTANTLY at first and later disappeared into oblivion was a song called “My Name is Norman Bates”

[TAC]

My remembrance is that when MTV started airing performances, they seemed to have come from something called the Blue Jean Network. I definitely remember that. I honestly don't know its origins.

[King Postwhore]

No is was a show on PBS that showed live concerts.  Since MTV had very little Journey videos the used live cuts of songs from that show.

I remember Quarterflash had a show as well.

[pg1067]

  As much time as I spent in arcades, I wonder why I never knew that existed.  (or maybe just forgot)  Hilarious that they have Herbie Herbert guarding the stage.

Imagine if they'd done that with Led Zeppelin and Peter Grant!


The list of videos played in the early days of MTV is, I think, rather fascinating.  For example, this was one of the first couple dozen videos ever played on MTV and was played twice on the first day:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufp75XlTp-Q

[TAC]

Wrathchild was the video I remember. I remember them looking like the coolest band ever.  Vendetta was another hard rock band they played quite a bit.

[Stadler]

Wrathchild was the video I remember. I remember them looking like the coolest band ever.  Vendetta was another hard rock band they played quite a bit.

Dave Murray.  Cool as beans.   I had that guitar, too (it was a Squier, but still....).