"Official" Lost Not Forgotten (official bootlegs) thread

[RaiseTheKnife]

Yeah, I realized that just after hit post and quickly edited, but you are quicker. In any event,  you make a fair point.

[Setlist Scotty]

Gotta slightly disagree with ya, Scotty.  Not only was Afterlife was played 25 times in 2015 in Europe, it was the shows opener!!  To me, that's a sign of respect, not a sign of dismissal. (EDIT, since the leg was an anniversary, I'll grant that the inclusion of the song may have been more out of necessity than desire).  Plus, I find JP's commentary in that clip more about the quality of production of the first album, rather than the quality of the songs themselves.  Maybe you're right and he doesn't hold the songs themselves in high regard, or perhaps there are other factors, such as setlist time restraints and how challenging each song is for James to sing.  I suspect the latter gets weighed heavily into which songs get included or not for any given tour.  Just my thoughts.

Yeah, being that they were doing the chronological set, having a WDaDU track in there was mandatory - it would've been weird for them to skip over it. And sure it was 25 shows, but that's roughly 1/4 of a normal tour for DT during the MM-era, featured in only one part of the world.

But no, it's not just the mix that's the issue for JP. Remember he said:

"go back to the first one and be like well maybe that could be remixed or maybe I could have done that better or whatever."

So he was giving equal weight to the mix and other things he didn't like about it. Some of it could have been whether JL can perform the tracks or not, but even that's debatable, given how they performed all of IaW in 2017 and TtT in particular was a struggle for JL.

[Dream Team]

Another LNF release:

“The Number of the Beast”, performed in its entirety, is a can’t-miss live release in the growing Lost Not Forgotten Archives series. Pre-order now for the 10th June release date here: https://dream-theater.lnk.to/LNFA-TheNumberOfTheBeast-LiveInParis2002

Originally released on our YtseJam Records label in 2005, “The Number of the Beast” is our rendition of the classic album from legendary Iron Maiden. This unique 2002 performance in front of a French audience at La Mutualite in Paris, France is the only available recording of this one-off historic event, forever preserved in the YtseJam collection and now available to pre-order for the first time ever on vinyl and streaming services.

This is worth it for the lounge version of Gangland!

[Spider In The Sky]

I don't have any of these.... how many are there... which are the best ones?

There are currently nine, with new ones releasing each month. The majority of them are re-releases of CDs that were released by YtseJam Records in the 2000s, so if you're a long-time fan, you might already have some of them.

Three of the current releases, and the new one coming out next month, are demos. These are:

• Train of Thought Instrumental Demos
• The Majesty Demos
• Awake Demos
• Falling Into Infinity Demos (upcoming)

The other six releases are live performances:

• Images and Words - Live in Japan 2017
• A Dramatic Tour of Events - Select Board Mixes
• Master of Puppets - Live in Barcelona 2002 (a cover of the Metallica album)
• When Dream and Day Reunite
• Live in NYC 1993
• ...And Beyond - Live in Japan 2017

These releases offer different things that might be of greater or less interest to you depending on what you like and what you're interested in. Here are the ones that I think are likely to be of most general interest to Dream Theater fans, with a little bit of why you might find them interesting.

• Live in NYC is a full show from the Images and Words tour. The band is really on the top of their game, with a ton of great performances. Plus, you get three hard-to-find songs: To Live Forever, Eve and the 1993 version of A Change of Seasons.
• The Falling Into Infinity Demos is the most interesting set of demos the band has released. This is because they include five songs that did not make the album, only one of which (Raise the Knife) is easy to find elsewhere, plus alternate versions of a lot of the songs that did make the album. They also include the Metropolis Part 2 demo, which is the earliest version of what became Scenes from a Memory
• When Dream and Day Reunite is of special interest to people who aren't fans of Charlie Dominici's voice on the first album. This is a live performance of the full album with James singing. It also includes To Live Forever and Metropolis with Charlie and Derek Sherinian as guests.
• The Majesty Demos is interesting if you're curious about the early history of the band, because you get songs that they recorded well before the first album. However, I don't think these songs are all that great on their own terms.
• A Dramatic Tour of Events is a great 2CD selection of live songs, including some what don't have any other live version or are pretty rare: The Count of Tuscany, The Great Debate, To Live Forever. But don't be deceived by the title: Nothing from the ADTOE album is on here. This covers all the songs played on that tour that were not on Live at Luna Park. Also, this was a free release for fans around Christmas 2013, so check to make sure that you don't already have it under the name "Happy Holidays 2013."
• ...And Beyond is another quality live release that includes some songs that don't have a live release elsewhere: The Bigger Picture, Hell's Kitchen, The Gift of Music, Our New World. Unlike Dramatic Tour of Events, this is a single CD that all comes from one show. This is actually the first half of the 2017 Japan concert. Images and Words - Live in Japan is most of the second half. Personally, I think ...And Beyond is better, because James's performance on the older songs from IAW is a bit spotty, while he sounds pretty good on the newer ones on ...And Beyond.

Thank you!!!!

[Stadler]

So…no Killing Hand?? Ugh.

Yeah, pretty ridiculous if he thinks TLF is a better song than TKH or AFIL or OAMOT or even Ytsejam. Your mileage may vary though.

It does; To Live Forever slays all those songs, for me.

[TAC]

More like To Blow Forever.

[EPIC Outro]

Released or not, I think To Live Forever is a Dream Theater classic.

[hefdaddy42]

So…no Killing Hand?? Ugh.

Yeah, pretty ridiculous if he thinks TLF is a better song than TKH or AFIL or OAMOT or even Ytsejam. Your mileage may vary though.

It does; To Live Forever slays all those songs, for me.

You're right.  That first album just isn't very good.  TLF is MUCH better than anything on the first album.

[Setlist Scotty]

So…no Killing Hand?? Ugh.

Yeah, pretty ridiculous if he thinks TLF is a better song than TKH or AFIL or OAMOT or even Ytsejam. Your mileage may vary though.

It does; To Live Forever slays all those songs, for me.

You're right.  That first album just isn't very good.  TLF is MUCH better than anything on the first album.

Beg to differ, but opinions and all that....

[pg1067]

So…no Killing Hand?? Ugh.

Yeah, pretty ridiculous if he thinks TLF is a better song than TKH or AFIL or OAMOT or even Ytsejam. Your mileage may vary though.

It does; To Live Forever slays all those songs, for me.

You're right.  That first album just isn't very good.  TLF is MUCH better than anything on the first album.

Beg to differ, but opinions and all that....

Hey!  We agree on something.  I'm not even a big fan of AFIL, but I think it's tons better than TLF.  I might even like TOWHTSTS better than TLF.

[425]

My take: TKH, OAMOT and AFIL are all better than To Live Forever, but To Live Forever is still quite good—those songs are just really good to great.

I don't have any of these.... how many are there... which are the best ones?

There are currently nine, with new ones releasing each month...

Thank you!!!!

No problem! I hope my post helps!

[HOF]

Didn't Bruce question the rationale behind an established band playing that album in full and recording it for release?

I’ve never been the concert going type, but I remember thinking back when DT was doing those full album cover concerts how bad it would suck to have DT come to town and you get a show of them playing Metallica or Iron Maiden.

[TAC]

Didn't Bruce question the rationale behind an established band playing that album in full and recording it for release?

I’ve never been the concert going type, but I remember thinking back when DT was doing those full album cover concerts how bad it would suck to have DT come to town and you get a show of them playing Metallica or Iron Maiden.

That's totally fair. I don't think either of those albums, as much as I love them, really bring out what DT does best. Neither does Dark Side Of The Moon for that matter. I bought the DVD of that, but not the CD. It's nothing that I would ever listen to, but I love watching the performance.
I thought the Live In Japan cover album was fantastic though. It was the one (of the four) cover albums that really allowed DT to shine.

[Cool Chris]

To Live Forever must have compromising photos of band members for it to appear on so many releases.

[Setlist Scotty]

Didn't Bruce question the rationale behind an established band playing that album in full and recording it for release?

I’ve never been the concert going type, but I remember thinking back when DT was doing those full album cover concerts how bad it would suck to have DT come to town and you get a show of them playing Metallica or Iron Maiden.

I saw them perform all of MoP in Chicago and loved it! Don't forget that the stipulation was that it would be the second set of a two night stand on an Evening With tour. So by the time I saw them do MoP, I had already seen about 4.5 hours of DT music (from the 3 hour show the night before, and the first set lasting roughly 1.5 hours from the MoP show), the vast majority of which was not repeated from night to night. Doesn't sound like a bad deal to me.

[EPIC Outro]

Did DT advertise that the second night in a city would feature a cover beyond mentioning it on online forums? I would have to imagine the majority of people going to that second night had no idea a cover was coming.

[Dream Team]

To Live Forever must have compromising photos of band members for it to appear on so many releases.

  Absolutely.

[hefdaddy42]

Did DT advertise that the second night in a city would feature a cover beyond mentioning it on online forums? I would have to imagine the majority of people going to that second night had no idea a cover was coming.

Yes.  It was understood (or BECAME understood) that the second night of a 2-night stand in the same venue would feature a cover performance.  Which was fine, because they very rarely played a 2-night stand anywhere, plus they had rotated setlists back then, so even if they weren't doing a cover album, the second night STILL wouldn't have been the same as the first night.

[EPIC Outro]

I know it was understood by those who were dialed into the DT and MP forums back then, but short of it being listed on the ticket or wherever someone purchased their tickets, I imagine a lot of folks were surprised to hear a whole album covered at a DT show.

[gzarruk]

I know it was understood by those who were dialed into the DT and MP forums back then, but short of it being listed on the ticket or wherever someone purchased their tickets, I imagine a lot of folks were surprised to hear a whole album covered at a DT show.

I think it would've sucked for casual fans who just bought tickets for the 2nd night because it better suited their schedule and then bam! you get Master of Puppets in full

When this worked better, however, was during the South American leg for the OV tour, when IIRC, they would do SFAM in full on the 2nd night at the same city or something like that. I wouldn't have complained about that at all

[hefdaddy42]

I know it was understood by those who were dialed into the DT and MP forums back then, but short of it being listed on the ticket or wherever someone purchased their tickets, I imagine a lot of folks were surprised to hear a whole album covered at a DT show.

I'm not sure how many "casual" fans they had back then, although yes, I'm sure it was a surprise for some people, who never are engaged with anything ever.  But you can't plan for every eventuality.

When this worked better, however, was during the South American leg for the OV tour, when IIRC, they would do SFAM in full on the 2nd night at the same city or something like that. I wouldn't have complained about that at all

Pretty sure that only happened once, and it was because they had missed that area on the original SFAM tour, when they played it in full on every stop.

[Cool Chris]

This may not come out well; if it sounds like I am pissed about it, I am really not. But I don't buy this "it was understood, it was common knowledge." I get there is no specific point where knowledge goes from "uncommon" to "common," which is maybe where I am getting stuck on this. It's your show, you can do whatever you like with your set, but to do something most would consider out of the norm (committing an hour of time to cover material), and fall back on the stance of "It was commonly understood something like this could happen..." based on internet communities is weak.

[Deadeye21]

When this worked better, however, was during the South American leg for the OV tour, when IIRC, they would do SFAM in full on the 2nd night at the same city or something like that. I wouldn't have complained about that at all

Pretty sure that only happened once, and it was because they had missed that area on the original SFAM tour, when they played it in full on every stop.

Which makes me pray that they might expand the View tour in Australasia and finish playing SFAM in full in every market, since they had to drop this leg from the Distance tour due to COVID. They won’t though, I don’t think it would suit them to do so, but we can dream, right?

[EPIC Outro]

I just find it amazing that DT was able to whip out Scenes in it's entirety for one random performance. I find that pretty incredible.

[Stadler]

This may not come out well; if it sounds like I am pissed about it, I am really not. But I don't buy this "it was understood, it was common knowledge." I get there is no specific point where knowledge goes from "uncommon" to "common," which is maybe where I am getting stuck on this. It's your show, you can do whatever you like with your set, but to do something most would consider out of the norm (committing an hour of time to cover material), and fall back on the stance of "It was commonly understood something like this could happen..." based on internet communities is weak.

Even if you're right - and not saying you are or aren't - I think it's a matter of the individual fan's point of view.   I know for me, it would not have been optimal, but I also would have factored in the "uniqueness factor".  I could say I was at that ONE SHOW where they did... whatever it is they did.  Other than Made In Japan, a double live album, these are not extraordinary intrusions.  Number... is 39:11 long in it's original format.  Master... is longer, at 54 minutes, but Dark Side... is 43 min.  Concerts are an experience, and they aren't about me, specifically, they are about that moment, and what the band wants to play in that moment. 

And DT wasn't/isn't the only band that does this; Gov't Mule does that too.  On any given Sunday, you can go to a Gov't Mule show and get... Dark Side of the Moon.  Houses of the Holy.  An entire set dedicated to Rolling Stones covers.  I saw them in New Haven and Ann Wilson came out and they did 6 or 7 Zeppelin tunes.

[Madman Shepherd]

I know it was understood by those who were dialed into the DT and MP forums back then, but short of it being listed on the ticket or wherever someone purchased their tickets, I imagine a lot of folks were surprised to hear a whole album covered at a DT show.

I'm not sure how many "casual" fans they had back then,

The vast majority. Just because DT has a more hardcore fanbase than normal, does not mean that all of them or even half of them are hardcore.

I often find myself talking to fans at shows and assuming they're hardcore like me. They have no idea they cover albums in their entirety. They have no idea that they had never played Space Dye Vest live before 2014. I even spoke to a guy that was a fan since 89. He loved Dominici's voice and had no idea they reunited with him in 04. Sometimes I talk to fans that are obsessive and then I mention an album, any album, and they're like, "Oh is that one good? I haven't listened to that one yet."

Many fans on this board had no idea about the official bootleg series or a lot of things. This board is a poor sample of how most concert goers feel.

[gzarruk]

When this worked better, however, was during the South American leg for the OV tour, when IIRC, they would do SFAM in full on the 2nd night at the same city or something like that. I wouldn't have complained about that at all

Pretty sure that only happened once, and it was because they had missed that area on the original SFAM tour, when they played it in full on every stop.

I just find it amazing that DT was able to whip out Scenes in it's entirety for one random performance. I find that pretty incredible.

According to Setlist.fm, they did it two times only, both in Brazil. For whatever reason, I thought they had played it for more shows than just two

[pg1067]

I know it was understood by those who were dialed into the DT and MP forums back then, but short of it being listed on the ticket or wherever someone purchased their tickets, I imagine a lot of folks were surprised to hear a whole album covered at a DT show.

I think it would've sucked for casual fans who just bought tickets for the 2nd night because it better suited their schedule and then bam! you get Master of Puppets in full

Exactly.  This is where all that "MP did so much for the fans!" stuff rang hollow.  He did stuff that was appreciated by a small percentage of the most dialed-in fans - and, in particular, those who went to multiple shows on a tour (the very vocal minority).  However, a lot of that stuff didn't appeal to our downright sucked for more casual fans.

Also, the bit about it being understood is a bit iffy.  I don't remember what tour it was, but I remember seeing that they had back to back shows scheduled in Calgary.  Knowing that this was a thing that DT did, and thinking they might cover a Rush album since they were in Canada, I came very close to buying plane tickets and a ticket for the second night.  Fortunately, I didn't do it because the set list for the second night was did not feature a cover performance (and yes, this was while MP was still in the band).

[Madman Shepherd]

I know it was understood by those who were dialed into the DT and MP forums back then, but short of it being listed on the ticket or wherever someone purchased their tickets, I imagine a lot of folks were surprised to hear a whole album covered at a DT show.

I think it would've sucked for casual fans who just bought tickets for the 2nd night because it better suited their schedule and then bam! you get Master of Puppets in full

Exactly.  This is where all that "MP did so much for the fans!" stuff rang hollow.  He did stuff that was appreciated by a small percentage of the most dialed-in fans - and, in particular, those who went to multiple shows on a tour (the very vocal minority).  However, a lot of that stuff didn't appeal to our downright sucked for more casual fans.

Yup. He even admitted that the stuff he did for fans is because he would have wanted it as a fan. And well, DT fans don't often agree on a lot. Even the diehards.

Also, the bit about it being understood is a bit iffy.  I don't remember what tour it was, but I remember seeing that they had back to back shows scheduled in Calgary.  Knowing that this was a thing that DT did, and thinking they might cover a Rush album since they were in Canada, I came very close to buying plane tickets and a ticket for the second night.  Fortunately, I didn't do it because the set list for the second night was did not feature a cover performance (and yes, this was while MP was still in the band).

 

That's the problem with speaking in absolutes. I also remember somebody from one of those Night 2 SFAM shows who was disappointed because they specifically went because they said they would COVER a classic album in it's entirety. The joke was, "See? SFAM is a classic!" but it wasn't a cover since it was their own album.

[Setlist Scotty]

Also, the bit about it being understood is a bit iffy.  I don't remember what tour it was, but I remember seeing that they had back to back shows scheduled in Calgary.  Knowing that this was a thing that DT did, and thinking they might cover a Rush album since they were in Canada, I came very close to buying plane tickets and a ticket for the second night.  Fortunately, I didn't do it because the set list for the second night was did not feature a cover performance (and yes, this was while MP was still in the band).

After the 2002 Barcelona show when they did MoP for the very first time, MP made it very clear that those cover album shows would only happen when they did two-night-stands at Evening With shows. Those shows in Calgary were part of Prog Nation 2008 which had 3 bands opening, so DT was only doing a 90 minute set to begin with. It's given they weren't gonna do a cover album at those shows.

[Trav86]

So…no Killing Hand?? Ugh.

Yeah, pretty ridiculous if he thinks TLF is a better song than TKH or AFIL or OAMOT or even Ytsejam. Your mileage may vary though.

It does; To Live Forever slays all those songs, for me.

You're right.  That first album just isn't very good.  TLF is MUCH better than anything on the first album.

While I like the first album, I still agree with this. TLF was their first real foray into a song with a wide dynamic range.  It’s wonderful.

[pg1067]

Also, the bit about it being understood is a bit iffy.  I don't remember what tour it was, but I remember seeing that they had back to back shows scheduled in Calgary.  Knowing that this was a thing that DT did, and thinking they might cover a Rush album since they were in Canada, I came very close to buying plane tickets and a ticket for the second night.  Fortunately, I didn't do it because the set list for the second night was did not feature a cover performance (and yes, this was while MP was still in the band).

After the 2002 Barcelona show when they did MoP for the very first time, MP made it very clear that those cover album shows would only happen when they did two-night-stands at Evening With shows. Those shows in Calgary were part of Prog Nation 2008 which had 3 bands opening, so DT was only doing a 90 minute set to begin with. It's given they weren't gonna do a cover album at those shows.

Made it clear how and to whom?  The several dozen people who were regularly on the MP forums?  It ultimately didn't matter for me, but I had heard hearsay about the whole "second night" thing, but I had no inkling that there were caveats.  And, in any event, this gets back to the original point, which is that, except for the most super dialed-in fans, the "second night" thing (much less the stipulations) was not well-known or regularly understood by most folks who bought tickets to DT shows.  Again, it ultimately didn't matter for me, and I certainly knew there was no guarantee about the show I considered (which is the primary reason I didn't pull the trigger on the tickets).  However, if I had gone to a DT show and had gotten a bunch of Pink Floyd covers, I'd have been crazy pissed.

[TAC]

  However, if I had gone to a DT show and had gotten a bunch of Pink Floyd covers, I'd have been crazy pissed.

I agree with this.

[KevShmev]

Did DT advertise that the second night in a city would feature a cover beyond mentioning it on online forums? I would have to imagine the majority of people going to that second night had no idea a cover was coming.

Not at first, no.  Only when there was a lot of criticism of it after the first couple did Portnoy then make it clear that the second night of two nights in the same city would feature the cover of a classic album.  I know this because we traveled to Chicago for the 2nd night there in 2002, and we never would have bought tickets to go to just the 2nd show had we known that the whole set would be covers.  Not complaining (anymore ), just saying.

[Cool Chris]

Again, posting something on your personal website forum can be considered "making it clear," but I wouldn't consider that method casting a wide net.