In fact, the only songs I go back to on the FII Demos are usually "Burning My Soul" 96 and "Take Away My Pain" 96, especially the latter. I still wish the band would have pulled that version out for a tour but I don't think they have.
They did the original versions of both songs during the Fix for 96 and Evening of New Music (in 1997) tours and the last of the Ff96 shows was also an official bootleg - you do remember that, don't you Marc?
There's a quote from MP's old FAQ section (which isn't on his website anymore, and I can't find the quote), where he wrote about how they had to decide what the strongest songs were.
Correct. An interesting thing is that originally neither YoM nor AL were going to be on the album either, but when they realized they had the space on the CD, they went ahead and included them. In particular YNM ended up on the album because they had worked with Desmond Child on it (I imagine kinda like a "hail Mary" attempt at getting a hit).
In my opinion, YNM is MUCH better than YOM (and my understanding is that Childs's contribution was only lyrical and that all musical improvements were choices made by JP).
I'd be curious to know where you got that idea - got a link? While DC may not have specifically told JP how to change the song, I would imagine that he did direct JP in what he thought needed to change to make it a hit. The irony of it all is that once JP returned and they recorded the song, they ended up changing the key to (I believe just) the chorus, probably to make it easier for JL to sing.
I think that even if you totally prefer every choice that was made between the FII Demos and final release, this is still an interesting release to have if you're a fan of the band. You get real insight into the process of how this album was made by hearing earlier versions of songs from the album, you get to hear four songs that you can't easily get anywhere else today, and, even if you totally hate FII for some reason, you get the beginning of how SFAM came to be. That's a far cry from the Awake and ToT Demos, which don't deviate too much from versions of the songs that are available elsewhere (aside from being instrumental in the case of ToT, I guess).
My thoughts in a nutshell:
They wrote enough material for a double album, but the label said no. Boo hoo. It was a completely reasonable thing for the label to do. Beyond that, "[t]he label didn’t have an influence on the album." (J. Petrucci). The song selection was entirely up to the band. Did they intentionally leave off songs that they thought were better than the songs they included? I doubt that. If those rejected songs were so strong, why didn't they save them for a subsequent album, rather than "burning" them on a fan club release? There's a quote from MP's old FAQ section (which isn't on his website anymore, and I can't find the quote), where he wrote about how they had to decide what the strongest songs were.
I think it's not hard to read between the lines of their comments over the years and see that there was disagreement within the band (and probably within the management) over how to approach this album, and that MP's comments sort of make it seem like "band vs. label" because that's how he felt about it. But even he has said pretty openly that part of his frustration during that period was being on the 2 side of a lot of 3-2 votes within the band (the typically speculation is that it was him and JLB), which tells us right there that not everyone in the band agreed with his take. (And "once again outnumbered" in Raise the Knife was about a management decision, which means that the majority of band members were happy with the manager who took them through the FII period.)
That said: I think the point that they (or at last MP) wanted to do a double album, that the label refused, and that the label may well have had good reason for doing so makes this an interesting artifact of that era in music history. Today, no prog band that is signed to a label is going to have any problem making a double album if they want to, because the economics are different, the goals of the labels are different, and because there are more genre-specific specialty labels. Hell, just last year we had a band, of which MP is a member, release three different versions of the same album, two of them longer than CD length, because the band couldn't agree on which version to use and the label was all too happy to put them all out.
So five songs from an album being left on the floor because of a label decision is just not something that you would see anymore, and it's interesting to think about how that change affects the creative process, for better and maybe for worse (if you think that FII is better as a single album, it's "for worse" at least to the extent that, if FII were made today, it would probably be a double).
Btw, I don't know that I'm arguing for a specific point here, necessarily—just sharing some stray thoughts on this release and the history of FII.
Nice post 425! You bring up a good point about the dynamic between the band members and how strongly each felt about each song that they put together during the FII sessions. Unfortunately, I don't know if we'll ever really know the true answer. Even if each of the guys were to talk about it, perspectives change over time and being 25 years ago, I imagine some memories are also hazy, too. One example would be Derek's feelings about Anna Lee. I don't know how he felt originally about the song, but years later, he's spoken negatively about it and even redone it as an instrumental track that ended up on one of his solo albums. So who's to say the same isn't true for some of the other guys, too?
I do think that in general, most bands (including DT) won't want to put out too much material on an album. Just look at the reaction to The Astonishing. Besides the atypical nature of the music, an issue that always seems to crop is that there's too much material. So I doubt we'll probably see another double studio album from DT again.
With that said, I am a bit disappointed by the mentality that the band has stuck to since SFaM of just writing and recording enough material for an album. From the viewpoint even of the band, and certainly some fans like pg1067, some of the songs that they wrote later were stronger than the ones they wrote earlier. Granted, the label basically forced the band to continue writing material until they felt they had enough that they could get behind. Nonetheless, if that was the case then, why would it be different on any subsequent album? The band has repeatedly said that they never have a shortage of ideas and that there are many that end up on the cutting room floor because they can't find a place for them. In particular now that they have their own studio (and so therefore far less financial pressure to work on an album within a certain period of time), why don't they follow their muse and continue piecing all those ideas into complete songs until they begin to feel tapped out, as opposed to just doing enough to fill a CD? More than likely, some of the later songs would be better/stronger than some of the earlier ones which they could then put on the album. Then the others could be used as B-sides, mid-tour releases, soundtracks, compilations, etc. It just always struck me as a missed opportunity and selling themselves short, especially now with the DTHQ.
I wish DT would rerecord this stuff. Release it digitally. Seems like easy money.
Why? It’s about to be released digitally in two months. It’s pretty good quality as is. What’s the point of wasting time and re-recording it?
Especially given that 2/5 of the band are new members. No offense to anyone, but I don't have any desire to hear these songs done in the studio by the current band. The ONLY songs I ever wanted re-recorded were those that don't have James singing.
I can see both sides, but at the very least, I would like to see them properly remix all the tracks so that their full potential can be realized. They supposedly remixed the Awake demos (why, I don't know) for the LNFA reissue, so I don't think it would be too much to hope for with regards to the FII demos.
Speaking of which, does anyone have both the original Awake demos and the reissue? If so, is there any significant difference between the sound of them?
Topic: "Official" Lost Not Forgotten (official bootlegs) thread (Read 117273 times)
