Author Topic: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen  (Read 35913 times)

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Online TAC

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Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
« Reply #210 on: April 22, 2023, 05:05:48 PM »
I'm a big fan of this album, but I can definitely see why so many fans, especially at the time of its release, disliked it. I only recently got into Dream Theater so from my perspective this album is a cool detour away from their usual style and showcases a side of the band that isn't present on any of their other albums. But if I were a fan back in 1997, itching for more stuff like Images and Words, Awake, and Change of Seasons I would definitely be pretty pissed to get this instead.

While there might be some truth to what you're suggesting, I think a big part of the problem was the fact that some of the songs had been changed significantly between the original demo version and the final studio version. We knew this because we had been getting pretty much a play-by-play from the band in the Images and Words fanzine during the time period where they were doing the writing, even telling us the length of the songs. Plus they had premiered an instrumental excerpt of RtK at two shows in 1995 which whet the fans' appetite for a song that never appeared on the album, and they premiered 5 songs at the Fix for '96 shows - two of which were changed significantly (BMS and TAMP) and one was more streamlined (LitS). So at least for the diehards "in the know" such as in the fan clubs and/or on the Ytsejam Mailing List, getting FII (complete with a cover not using the band's font and barely showing the Majesty symbol) was a huge shock. Those feelings were reinforced by those that had the Japanese version of FII and the HY single which featured 2 demos each - one heavily changed, and one that didn't make the cut. Prior to that, I don't remember reading any comments by fans in the fanzine or the mailing list that expressed concern or disappointment over the new songs that DT was preparing for FII.

As big of a fan as I was at the time, I was not involved in any of the fanzines. Even though I saw The Fix For '96 tour, I didn't get the boot for years later, so I had no idea that there were altered demo versions, obviously not remembering the arrangements from the '96 show.

JeopardousRaven is 100% correct. It was the only time I have ever been truly disappointed in a new Dream Theater album. On that first listen, I literally thought the band as I knew it, was finished.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
« Reply #211 on: April 22, 2023, 05:39:12 PM »
As big of a fan as I was at the time, I was not involved in any of the fanzines. .... JeopardousRaven is 100% correct. It was the only time I have ever been truly disappointed in a new Dream Theater album. On that first listen, I literally thought the band as I knew it, was finished.

This is me. I loved I&W and Awake, but wasn't online, never read magazines, and there's a good chance I didn't know what a fanzine was in 1996. Even at that point I appreciated bands evolved and didn't want to replicate what they had done previously. I loved I&W and Awake for how, while incorporating musical aspects of different bands I enjoyed (soaring vocals, complex instrumentation...) , they had put it all together unlike anything I had heard before. FII felt like such a departure, I was like TAC in thinking this train had changed tracks, and I wasn't sure if I wanted to stay on board.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
« Reply #212 on: April 22, 2023, 05:51:01 PM »
I still don't get being upset that rough drafts (which demos in essence are) didn't make the proper album.  I mean, I get it if that is the version you were used to, and then you thought the album version wasn't as good, but I remember hearing the demos years later and thought almost every version that made FII was quite a bit better, so this feels like a case of "I like what I heard first the most."  I mean, the original Burning My Soul is basically a trainwreck (it literally sounds like a mish-mash of two unrelated songs), so breaking that up and turning the instrumental bits into a beast of a song like Hell's Kitchen was the right call.

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
« Reply #213 on: April 23, 2023, 01:23:02 PM »
I still don't get being upset that rough drafts (which demos in essence are) didn't make the proper album.  I mean, I get it if that is the version you were used to, and then you thought the album version wasn't as good, but I remember hearing the demos years later and thought almost every version that made FII was quite a bit better, so this feels like a case of "I like what I heard first the most."  I mean, the original Burning My Soul is basically a trainwreck (it literally sounds like a mish-mash of two unrelated songs), so breaking that up and turning the instrumental bits into a beast of a song like Hell's Kitchen was the right call.
I'm sure that for me, part of it is what I had became familiar with, having received a boot of a Fix for 96 show shortly after the show happened, and listening to it repeatedly until those songs were etched into my consciousness. So by the time the album proper was released, hearing those changes was a disappointment. I do disagree with the assertion that most of the changes made the songs better. While I understand the mindset of excising what became HK from BMS (and the outro from HK is awesome), I still like the shifting moods and untraditional arrangement of the original. The only one that I really agree with was an improvement was the rearranging of some of the lyrics in LitS. But that's opinions for ya.

Nonetheless, as I said before - and as you can read for yourselves in the Ytsejam Mailing List - there were no complaints or expressions of disappointment of the new songs that were featured during the Fix for 96 shows. Of course, had they played 4 or 5 different songs, maybe the opinions of those in attendance and reporting (and those of us who subsequently got boots of those shows) might not have been so glowing - we'll never know. But once the album was released, there was definitely disappointment expressed. I know I felt it then.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
« Reply #214 on: April 24, 2023, 08:27:07 AM »
I can't speak to the fanzine subscribers, but I do know that, just like the amount of fans who belong to message boards now, they were never the majority of the fanbase.

At the time, I was not a part of the fanzine crowd, and my reaction to FII was similar to TAC and Cool Chris.  I loved DT based on the music they had released, which at that time was WDADU, I&W, Awake, and ACOS, and LATM/I&W - Tokyo.  FII was not that, it was different.  Some of the songs were (and remain) among my favorite DT tracks, but the rest didn't really feel very much like DT.  It felt like something else. 
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
« Reply #215 on: April 24, 2023, 05:02:55 PM »
That's a great point.  No clue how many people were a part of the Ytsejam Mailing List, but I would imagine it was a tinny tiny part of the overall fanbase. 

Offline crystalstars17

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Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
« Reply #216 on: April 25, 2023, 02:35:07 PM »
This album is definitely one of extreme highs and lows for me, and that said, I love love love Hell's Kitchen.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
« Reply #217 on: April 25, 2023, 07:24:24 PM »
....I love love love Hell's Kitchen.

I gave up on FII shortly after it was released,  and when I heard the Hell's Kitchen part on the Instrumedley from the Budokan DVD, I thought "Damn, that is awesome, what the heck song is that?" Then I saw the FII artwork on the video screen and though "wait... is that from FII?"  :facepalm:
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Offline Dublagent66

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Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
« Reply #218 on: April 26, 2023, 04:13:29 PM »
I could easily revisit this album at any time and have no problem listening to it straight through.  Of course there are a few subpar tracks, but I really don't mind.  Having said that, I think that YNM and JLMB could've been replaced by RTK and that would've been perfect.  I also like BMS and TAMP.
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Offline Jamesman42

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Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
« Reply #219 on: February 14, 2024, 06:51:20 PM »
I am sort of giving FII a relisten, especially after the top 100 countdown.

This album is foreign to me, sort of. Along with WDADU and SFAM, it always sounds like a new album since those 3 get little love from me overall.

Just Let Me Breathe is a song I almost completely forgot about, and listening now, I don't remember any of this. :lol

Offline crystalstars17

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Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
« Reply #220 on: February 14, 2024, 08:02:31 PM »
....I love love love Hell's Kitchen.

I gave up on FII shortly after it was released,  and when I heard the Hell's Kitchen part on the Instrumedley from the Budokan DVD, I thought "Damn, that is awesome, what the heck song is that?" Then I saw the FII artwork on the video screen and though "wait... is that from FII?"  :facepalm:

The first time I heard Hell's Kitchen was live in 2017. I loved it immediately. I still am transported right back to that moment whenever I hear it.

Offline Zydar

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Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
« Reply #221 on: February 15, 2024, 03:35:43 AM »
I did a re-listen to all the MP era albums a week or two ago. It cemented my appreciation for this album (I love their entire 90s era). So many great songs to be found here: New Millennium, Peruvian Skies, Hollow Years, Take Away My Pain, Anna Lee, and Trial Of Tears. I even got a new appreciation for Burning My Soul lately. You Not Me is alright (gets way too much flak), but I still can't really enjoy Just Let Me Breathe. It might not be as heavy as Awake or progressive as SFAM, but there's lots of lovely melodies and arrangements to be found if you like that side of the band. Oh, and I enjoy a couple of the omitted tracks too - like Speak To Me and Raise The Knife.
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Offline Sycsa

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Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
« Reply #222 on: February 15, 2024, 04:07:31 AM »
I agree, it's an interesting album through and through. Not your typical DT prog metal extravaganza. I'd love it if DT embraced their melodic/pop sensibilities on the upcoming album. I think there's a good chance for that.


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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
« Reply #223 on: February 15, 2024, 06:23:18 AM »
I like Falling Into Infinity a lot more now than I did when it was released.
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Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
« Reply #224 on: February 15, 2024, 06:28:40 AM »
This was the current release at the time I got into the band, but I heard I&W and Awake first, so yeah it did sound kind of not like DT to me at the time too. I remember not really knowing what to make of it, but I didn’t instantly love it. A few tracks did jump out though, particularly Hollow Years and Hell’s Kitchen. Maybe Lines in the Sand too, I can’t quite remember.

I came back to it a year or so later though, and it really grew on me, to the point where I was kind of disappointed that they abandoned that more melodic classic rock direction when SFAM came out. I still think it's their most mature effort from a songwriting and production perspective. It has two duds in Burning My Soul and Just Let Me Breath, and I also prefer several of the tracks that didn’t make it to the album.

But really I just enjoy that era of songwriting from the band. The circumstances sucked for sure, but it produced some real gems in my opinion.  Still some of my very favorite DT songs here (Trial of Tears, Take Away My Pain, Lines in the Sand, Hell’s Kitchen, Speak To Me, The Way It Used to Be, and so on). In retrospect I wish they could have carried on more in that direction as I burned out on the band over the next several albums and they never really got back to this height for me.


Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
« Reply #225 on: February 15, 2024, 08:02:35 AM »
I agree, it's an interesting album through and through. Not your typical DT prog metal extravaganza. I'd love it if DT embraced their melodic/pop sensibilities on the upcoming album. I think there's a good chance for that.
It's always possible, but don't forget that they kinda did on 8v as well. MP has gone on record as stating that 8v is basically what FII would have been if not for the label's involvement.
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Offline Zydar

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Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
« Reply #226 on: February 15, 2024, 08:06:57 AM »
I agree, it's an interesting album through and through. Not your typical DT prog metal extravaganza. I'd love it if DT embraced their melodic/pop sensibilities on the upcoming album. I think there's a good chance for that.
It's always possible, but don't forget that they kinda did on 8v as well. MP has gone on record as stating that 8v is basically what FII would have been if not for the label's involvement.

Interesting, I can see that. So would that make the early version of Metropolis Part 2 the equivalent of 8VM the title track (a long epic)?
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Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
« Reply #227 on: February 15, 2024, 08:28:00 AM »
I agree, it's an interesting album through and through. Not your typical DT prog metal extravaganza. I'd love it if DT embraced their melodic/pop sensibilities on the upcoming album. I think there's a good chance for that.
It's always possible, but don't forget that they kinda did on 8v as well. MP has gone on record as stating that 8v is basically what FII would have been if not for the label's involvement.
Interesting, I can see that. So would that make the early version of Metropolis Part 2 the equivalent of 8VM the title track (a long epic)?
I would say so. If you look at the FII demos, MP says they worked on the song in mid-1996. While it was never finished properly (and they chose to continue working on other music), if they would have concluded with it and everything else they completed by July 1996 as appearing on disc 1 of the demos (which were considered "complete" when everything was done, including lyrics), then the track listing would have been something like:
Raise the Knife
Where Are You Now?
Take Away My Pain
You or Me
Anna Lee
Burning My Soul
The Way It Used to Be
Lines in the Sand
Metropolis part 2

Even all these tracks add up to 90 minutes of music, so one or two tracks would have been dropped to make it a single CD - maybe WAYN and/or YoM, and/or some editing to some of the tracks as Kevin Shirley ultimately did. Hard to know for certain since we don't know what the discussions were within the band and when they spoke with the label, but it does give us a little idea.

edit: just found the note MP made that said they worked on M2 after finishing YoM and AL. So just the first 5 tracks plus M2 would have added up to 60 minutes of music. If they would have stuck with their "write only a CD's worth of material" mentality, then maybe they would have worked just on LitS and called it a day. Hard to say.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2024, 08:35:21 AM by Setlist Scotty »
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Offline Zydar

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Re: Falling Into Infinity a re-listen
« Reply #228 on: February 15, 2024, 08:37:35 AM »
Wow, thanks a lot for the information! That would make for an interesting tracklist indeed.
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