Author Topic: The "Black Widow (2021)" Film Thread - SPOILERS!!! Now Out On Home Video Sept 14  (Read 20595 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline MinistroRaven

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 3831
  • Gender: Male
Saw it today, and loved it. Natasha/Scarlett is awesome and she deserved this. I know that no amount of violence is enough these days, but she got hurt plenty. Bruises all over, a broken nose, stabbed and bleeding, etc. All these movies have normal humans surviving impossible circumstances so nothing new there.

The emotional scenes were done well and delivered the goods. And yeah I choked up when I saw the grave stone.

My thoughts exactly

Offline hefdaddy42

  • Et in Arcadia Ego
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 53126
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
I thought it was fun. Certainly not upper echelon MCU, but fine for what it is. 

I didn't like the change for Taskmaster.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline jingle.boy

  • I'm so ronery; so sad and ronery
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 44808
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
I thought it was fun. Certainly not upper echelon MCU, but fine for what it is. 

I didn't like the change for Taskmaster.

Of all the changes / twists they’ve done for characters (Mandarin, Ancient One, Sharon as examples), this was the most disappointing.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Offline MirrorMask

  • Posts: 13414
  • Gender: Male
Saw it too, I'm basically in line with everyone else - yeah, cool and fun, but it's not gonna be groundbreaking or particularly memorable.

One thing about the pheromones issue - does that bad guy stink so much and never washes, or they are naturally all around in a closed room and they can be sensed anyway? legit question  :lol because, I mean, if the problem is that you're near your enemy enough to smell him, just walk away to the furthest corner of the room where you can't sense his pheromones (rather than breaking your nose).
I use my sig to pimp some bands from Italy! Check out Elvenking (Power / Folk metal), Folkstone (Rock / Medieval metal), Arcana Opera (Gothic/Noir/Heavy metal) and the beautiful voice of Elisa!

Online soupytwist

  • Posts: 2741
  • Gender: Male
  • Star Trekkin
Yeah that was a strange 'power'.  Personally I just think Ray Winston stinks in real life (curry, fags, cheap whiskey, hi karate aftershave) and they just wrote that into the script.

Offline lonestar

  • DTF Executive Chef
  • Official DTF Tour Guide
  • ****
  • Posts: 29955
  • Gender: Male
  • Silly Hatted Knife Chucker
Yeah that was a strange 'power'.  Personally I just think Ray Winston stinks in real life (curry, fags, cheap whiskey, hi karate aftershave) and they just wrote that into the script.

Wtf  :rollin :rollin

Offline MinistroRaven

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 3831
  • Gender: Male

Offline Orbert

  • Recovering Musician
  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 19263
  • Gender: Male
  • In and around the lake
Ouch.

I can see her point, that her salary was negotiated based on a piece of the box office, which is less because of the simultaneous release on streaming platforms.  But the article seems to point out a few things that will weaken the suit. 

Quote
Marvel Entertainment, which is owned by Disney, ensured a "wide theatrical release" of the film. The suit says it’s "well understood" that the agreement meant an exclusive release that would not include streaming.

Okay, so which is it?  Did the contract guarantee a "wide theatrical release" or an "exclusive" release?  It doesn't matter what is "well understood"; what matters is what's in black and white in the contract.

Quote
The lawsuit alleges that Disney had two primary motivations for the hybrid release. First, it argues, Disney wanted to boost subscriber numbers for its streaming service and inflate its stock value. Second, the suit states, "Disney wanted to substantially devalue Ms. Johansson’s agreement and thereby enrich itself."

The second part is what will be hard to prove, if not impossible.  No one could have forseen the pandemic, and I thought releasing it simultaneously in theaters and online was a decent compromise.  Yes, it cuts into her take-home.  But how do you prove that Disney did this with the expressed intention of "devaluing" her?

Offline lonestar

  • DTF Executive Chef
  • Official DTF Tour Guide
  • ****
  • Posts: 29955
  • Gender: Male
  • Silly Hatted Knife Chucker
Would a force majeure clause cancel that out? I think it could be argued that a pandemic is one. (I of course know precisely dick about contract law and am more than anxious to hear from the lawyers)

Offline jingle.boy

  • I'm so ronery; so sad and ronery
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 44808
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
Would a force majeure clause cancel that out? I think it could be argued that a pandemic is one. (I of course know precisely dick about contract law and am more than anxious to hear from the lawyers)

That was my immediate thought.  But if it's potentially costing her $50M, it's worth throwing this out there.  Let's ignore the fact that many countries still didn't (and don't) have theaters open at the beginning of the month.

@ Bob... I think the claim is that it was contracted that the exclusive and theatrical release were in combination with one another - exclusively a theatrical release.  And as far as black and white in the contract, Disney lawyers will be well paid to say that D+ constitutes a "theatrical release".  Depends on whose literal definition of "theatrical" is going to be used.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Offline ariich

  • Roulette Supervillain
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 28035
  • Gender: Male
  • sexin' you later
Thing is, it wasn't just added to vanilla Disney+, it was a premium thing you had to pay for (and in the UK at least, if your household only had one or two people watching it, like I did, it actually cost more than it would have done to watch in theaters).

So, on one hand yes of course it was completely reasonable for Disney to release it on premium streaming as well as in theaters, because of the pandemic. But on the other hand, Disney should absolutely treat that income as equivalent to box office income for the purpose of her salary. I doubt they would have been required to do so in terms of contract law, but frankly it's just common sense and basic decency. If they're not paying her anything from that pot, then while she may not have a strong legal case, I would be 100% on her side morally.

Ariich is a freak, or somehow has more hours in the day than everyone else.
I be am boner inducing.

Offline King Postwhore

  • Couch Potato
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 59424
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
I justified it because I would see every Marvel movie in I-MAX or in a drive in and it cost just as much for 2 people. 
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline pg1067

  • Posts: 12540
  • Gender: Male
Okay, so which is it?  Did the contract guarantee a "wide theatrical release" or an "exclusive" release?  It doesn't matter what is "well understood"; what matters is what's in black and white in the contract.

Yes and no.  "[W]hat's in black and white in the contract" is the starting point, but it's rarely all there is to it.  When you have terminology that has a "well understood" meaning in a particular industry in which both parties are sophisticated players, it very much DOES matter what is and isn't "well understood."  Whether she can prove that it was, in fact, "well understood" is a different matter entirely.


Quote
The lawsuit alleges that Disney had two primary motivations for the hybrid release. First, it argues, Disney wanted to boost subscriber numbers for its streaming service and inflate its stock value. Second, the suit states, "Disney wanted to substantially devalue Ms. Johansson’s agreement and thereby enrich itself."

The second part is what will be hard to prove, if not impossible.  No one could have forseen the pandemic, and I thought releasing it simultaneously in theaters and online was a decent compromise.  Yes, it cuts into her take-home.  But how do you prove that Disney did this with the expressed intention of "devaluing" her?

I haven't seen the complaint, so I don't know what causes of action were alleged, but in a breach of contract suit, the party's motivations for breaching aren't relevant.  Assuming no other causes of action that might make the motivations relevant, these allegations are nothing more than press release fodder.


Would a force majeure clause cancel that out? I think it could be argued that a pandemic is one. (I of course know precisely dick about contract law and am more than anxious to hear from the lawyers)

Force majeure is a concept that almost no one cared about prior to 2020, but it's been the legal term of the year for the past year and a half.  The answer to your question as it relates to this suit is maybe.  It depends on what the FM clause (if there was one) says.  That being said, it might not apply because there was arguably no force majeure event at the time this movie was released.


Thing is, it wasn't just added to vanilla Disney+, it was a premium thing you had to pay for (and in the UK at least, if your household only had one or two people watching it, like I did, it actually cost more than it would have done to watch in theaters).

So, on one hand yes of course it was completely reasonable for Disney to release it on premium streaming as well as in theaters, because of the pandemic. But on the other hand, Disney should absolutely treat that income as equivalent to box office income for the purpose of her salary. I doubt they would have been required to do so in terms of contract law, but frankly it's just common sense and basic decency. If they're not paying her anything from that pot, then while she may not have a strong legal case, I would be 100% on her side morally.

Studios and record companies have been (for decades) intractably resistant to paying royalties for media revenue other than those things expressly identified in the contract (for example, I'm pretty sure a LOT of artists are getting squat for streaming revenue for 5-10+ year old material).  I could be wrong, but I think one of Johansson's allegations is that her contract did not provide for royalties based on this sort of streaming revenue (because it wasn't a thing in late 2018 or early 2019 when the contract was made).  This isn't about "common decency" or anything like that, and that won't come into play at all.
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline lonestar

  • DTF Executive Chef
  • Official DTF Tour Guide
  • ****
  • Posts: 29955
  • Gender: Male
  • Silly Hatted Knife Chucker
But this is the type of stuff the FM clause is written for, earthquake, hurricane, tornado, pandemic, etc, right?

(I actually learned about the clause from the original Battlefield Earth novel, not the crappy movie, it played a big part in o e of the climactic moments)

Offline pg1067

  • Posts: 12540
  • Gender: Male
But this is the type of stuff the FM clause is written for, earthquake, hurricane, tornado, pandemic, etc, right?

(I actually learned about the clause from the original Battlefield Earth novel, not the crappy movie, it played a big part in o e of the climactic moments)

Sort of.  The idea is that, if an "act of god" prevents one party from performing, then that party is not in breach for failing to perform.  While a pandemic is a classic "act of god" (i.e., a force majeure event), it is arguable, that the pandemic did not prevent Disney from performing.  For example, my company had booked a location for a summer 2020 company party that we canceled, citing the force majeure language in the contract.

If what I'm reading (mostly on Wiki) is right, production on BW wrapped in October 2019, and post-production was done about six months later.  The theatrical release was delayed for the pandemic, and the movie was released theatrically on July 9, 2021.  There was nothing at that time preventing an exclusive theatrical release or mandating a simultaneous release via streaming.
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline lonestar

  • DTF Executive Chef
  • Official DTF Tour Guide
  • ****
  • Posts: 29955
  • Gender: Male
  • Silly Hatted Knife Chucker
Gotcha, thanks for the explanation. We'll no matter, it's safe to say there'll be no resurrection of the ScarJo Widow now.

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 43380
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Maybe, maybe not.  These suits are not always taken personally like we assume.  Ozzy and Tony sued each other over the Sabbath name and ended up putting out an album together and doing at least one tour AFTER that suit.   I'm in a case in California with an entity, and have entered into TWO subsequent contracts with them for further work.    Everyone assumes that "suing someone" is akin to fucking them over, and it's just not (always) that way.

EDIT:  And actually, depending how it plays out, I can see "two more pictures" or whatever, being part of a settlement.

Offline jingle.boy

  • I'm so ronery; so sad and ronery
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 44808
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
What I'm unclear on is whether or not D+ Premier Access revenues for the film are counted as part of her % of revenue deal.  If it is, then she can go fuck a duck, and is totally tone deaf to sue Disney for her own personal lost revenue of a % of Disney's own (hypothetical) missed revenues between what was earned in theaters plus D+ Premier access vs theaters alone.  Frankly, because of what I posted earlier, the latter probably would have been LESS total revenue earned by the film.

If she's NOT getting a % of the D+ Premier Access revenues, then I think she has a legitimate beef.  Whether it's a legitimate case is a different question.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Offline lonestar

  • DTF Executive Chef
  • Official DTF Tour Guide
  • ****
  • Posts: 29955
  • Gender: Male
  • Silly Hatted Knife Chucker
From everything I've seen she didn't get a percentage of the D+ (that totally sounds dirty but I'm leaving it). Granted most of the sources I'm seeing are heavy on team ScarJo.


I'd love to see the writers as they try to work through the mental gymnastics of how to write her back into the MCU for two more flicks  :lol

Offline jingle.boy

  • I'm so ronery; so sad and ronery
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 44808
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
From everything I've seen she didn't get a percentage of the D+ (that totally sounds dirty but I'm leaving it). Granted most of the sources I'm seeing are heavy on team ScarJo.

So then yeah... that's shifty on Disney's part.  Logical from the sense of the right thing to do given world conditions, but shifty as a means of getting out of having to pay her millions.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Offline lonestar

  • DTF Executive Chef
  • Official DTF Tour Guide
  • ****
  • Posts: 29955
  • Gender: Male
  • Silly Hatted Knife Chucker
From everything I've seen she didn't get a percentage of the D+ (that totally sounds dirty but I'm leaving it). Granted most of the sources I'm seeing are heavy on team ScarJo.

So then yeah... that's shifty on Disney's part.  Logical from the sense of the right thing to do given world conditions, but shifty as a means of getting out of having to pay her millions.

Also how much revenue was lost through easier pirating due to the D+ release? I'd gather it was substantial.

Offline jingle.boy

  • I'm so ronery; so sad and ronery
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 44808
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
From everything I've seen she didn't get a percentage of the D+ (that totally sounds dirty but I'm leaving it). Granted most of the sources I'm seeing are heavy on team ScarJo.

So then yeah... that's shifty on Disney's part.  Logical from the sense of the right thing to do given world conditions, but shifty as a means of getting out of having to pay her millions.

Also how much revenue was lost through easier pirating due to the D+ release? I'd gather it was substantial.

Fo sho
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 43380
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Just throwing this out there... why is it shifty?  She's represented.  She's got lawyers, accountants, agents, managers.  She's not a nobody; she's got clout.   Disney has ZERO obligation to give her something she didn't ask for or fight for.  And if she ultimately signed the deal without that, she's of sound mind and body, and that's that.

I watch "Good Girls", with Christina Hendricks, and it was just cancelled because Manny Montana wouldn't take a pay cut.  You know, THAT Manny Montana.   :)   

Offline lonestar

  • DTF Executive Chef
  • Official DTF Tour Guide
  • ****
  • Posts: 29955
  • Gender: Male
  • Silly Hatted Knife Chucker
Seems Kevin Feige is on team ScarJo, and is "angry and embarrassed" at how the mouse is treating her. Wonder if Favreau has piped in yet?

Offline ZirconBlue

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 2558
  • Gender: Male






The second part is what will be hard to prove, if not impossible.  No one could have forseen the pandemic, and I thought releasing it simultaneously in theaters and online was a decent compromise.  Yes, it cuts into her take-home.  But how do you prove that Disney did this with the expressed intention of "devaluing" her?



Ah, but apparently the idea that the movie might be release through streaming was discussed well before the pandemic:


Quote
Even before the pandemic, Ms. Johansson was concerned that “Black Widow” could end up on Disney+ as part of its wide release. In 2019, Ms. Johansson’s representatives reached out to Marvel seeking assurance that “Black Widow” would have a theatrical-only release, according to the complaint. In a March 2019 email included in the suit, Marvel Chief Counsel Dave Galluzzi said the release would be according to a traditional theatrical model, adding, “We understand that should the plan change, we would need to discuss this with you and come to an understanding as the deal is based on a series of (very large) box office bonuses.”


Source




Offline jingle.boy

  • I'm so ronery; so sad and ronery
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 44808
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
Just throwing this out there... why is it shifty?  She's represented.  She's got lawyers, accountants, agents, managers.  She's not a nobody; she's got clout.   Disney has ZERO obligation to give her something she didn't ask for or fight for.  And if she ultimately signed the deal without that, she's of sound mind and body, and that's that.

My assumption on their decision to release it on D+ Premier Access is because they were doing the 'socially responsible' thing.  If there's another reason why it was released on D+ Premier Access, I'm willing to hear it.  IMO, this is shifty because in doing the socially "right" thing to give an avenue to their audience that doesn't put them in densely packed indoor spaces - it appears to violate the contract with Johansen and also (conveniently) reduces their financial obligation to her.

However, if the above is your stance, then Disney *is* (was) obligated to give her what was contractually agreed to - namely exclusive theatrical release, no?
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Offline pg1067

  • Posts: 12540
  • Gender: Male
Ah, but apparently the idea that the movie might be release through streaming was discussed well before the pandemic:


Quote
Even before the pandemic, Ms. Johansson was concerned that “Black Widow” could end up on Disney+ as part of its wide release. In 2019, Ms. Johansson’s representatives reached out to Marvel seeking assurance that “Black Widow” would have a theatrical-only release, according to the complaint. In a March 2019 email included in the suit, Marvel Chief Counsel Dave Galluzzi said the release would be according to a traditional theatrical model, adding, “We understand that should the plan change, we would need to discuss this with you and come to an understanding as the deal is based on a series of (very large) box office bonuses.”


Source

This probably hurts her case a bit.  If this was something she/her reps considered before making the contract, then the theatrical exclusivity language should have been included in the contract.

My best guess is that the two sides will do a bit of preliminary punching at each other and eventually settle in a mediation.
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline ariich

  • Roulette Supervillain
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 28035
  • Gender: Male
  • sexin' you later
What I'm unclear on is whether or not D+ Premier Access revenues for the film are counted as part of her % of revenue deal.  If it is, then she can go fuck a duck, and is totally tone deaf to sue Disney for her own personal lost revenue of a % of Disney's own (hypothetical) missed revenues between what was earned in theaters plus D+ Premier access vs theaters alone.  Frankly, because of what I posted earlier, the latter probably would have been LESS total revenue earned by the film.

If she's NOT getting a % of the D+ Premier Access revenues, then I think she has a legitimate beef.  Whether it's a legitimate case is a different question.
100% agree with all this.

And in terms of the bolded part, yeah I paid my £20 to watch it alone, whereas if it was only in theaters, right now I almost certainly would not have gone, and even if I had I'd only have spent £8-10. But more likely I would have simply waited until it came onto vanilla D+ in 6-9 months as part of my existing subscription.

Ariich is a freak, or somehow has more hours in the day than everyone else.
I be am boner inducing.

Offline The Letter M

  • Posts: 15554
  • Gender: Male
I also have to wonder if Disney releasing it on digital only 1 month (August 10th) after theatrical has anything to do with it? It's also going on physical disc media just 9.5 weeks after theatrical (September 14th), which has to be one of the quickest turnarounds for a large tent pole film.

Also read earlier today that Emma Stone (Cruella) and Emily Blunt (Jungle Cruise) are considering their options with regards to their recent Disney films' performances.

-Marc.
ATTENTION - HAKEN FANS! The HAKEN SURVIVOR 2023 has begun! You can check it out in the Polls/Survivors Forum!!!

Offline jingle.boy

  • I'm so ronery; so sad and ronery
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 44808
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
What I'm unclear on is whether or not D+ Premier Access revenues for the film are counted as part of her % of revenue deal.  If it is, then she can go fuck a duck, and is totally tone deaf to sue Disney for her own personal lost revenue of a % of Disney's own (hypothetical) missed revenues between what was earned in theaters plus D+ Premier access vs theaters alone.  Frankly, because of what I posted earlier, the latter probably would have been LESS total revenue earned by the film.

If she's NOT getting a % of the D+ Premier Access revenues, then I think she has a legitimate beef.  Whether it's a legitimate case is a different question.
100% agree with all this.

And in terms of the bolded part, yeah I paid my £20 to watch it alone, whereas if it was only in theaters, right now I almost certainly would not have gone, and even if I had I'd only have spent £8-10. But more likely I would have simply waited until it came onto vanilla D+ in 6-9 months as part of my existing subscription.

Not sure I'm following - you *did* pay 20 to watch it solo on D+Premier, but would *not* have paid 10 to go to the theater on your own??  Am I to assume that is a pandemic statement, and not a financial one (ie, if not for the pandemic, you *would* have gone to the theater?)  For all of those situations where Disney got *more* money out of a single consumer because D+Premier > single theater ticket, there's situations where (if not for the pandemic) they got less.  For the jingle.family, they got $30 out of us, for 3 of us to watch it.  If not for the pandemic, they would've got upwards of $50 out of us to see it in the theater.  I have to assume that there are far more instances of groups of people watching at home vs one person watching it at home, and as such releasing on D+Premier because of the pandemic cost them money.  Here in Canada, we would not have been able to see it on release weekend (theaters were still closed), but could, and likely would now (jingle.son and I are going to see Suicide Squad in theaters on Thursday).  So the decision to release on D+Premier represents less revenue to Disney, and less revenue for ScarJo.

Her contract would have been signed WELL before the pandemic, and I assume well before any thoughts of a D+ Premier Access service as a significant revenue source, so it's understandable how considerations for that would not have worked it's way into the contract.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Offline ariich

  • Roulette Supervillain
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 28035
  • Gender: Male
  • sexin' you later
What I'm unclear on is whether or not D+ Premier Access revenues for the film are counted as part of her % of revenue deal.  If it is, then she can go fuck a duck, and is totally tone deaf to sue Disney for her own personal lost revenue of a % of Disney's own (hypothetical) missed revenues between what was earned in theaters plus D+ Premier access vs theaters alone.  Frankly, because of what I posted earlier, the latter probably would have been LESS total revenue earned by the film.

If she's NOT getting a % of the D+ Premier Access revenues, then I think she has a legitimate beef.  Whether it's a legitimate case is a different question.
100% agree with all this.

And in terms of the bolded part, yeah I paid my £20 to watch it alone, whereas if it was only in theaters, right now I almost certainly would not have gone, and even if I had I'd only have spent £8-10. But more likely I would have simply waited until it came onto vanilla D+ in 6-9 months as part of my existing subscription.

Not sure I'm following - you *did* pay 20 to watch it solo on D+Premier, but would *not* have paid 10 to go to the theater on your own??  Am I to assume that is a pandemic statement, and not a financial one (ie, if not for the pandemic, you *would* have gone to the theater?)
Yes, exactly. And it's not just about whether cinemas are open or closed - I and many others are not really in a position right now to be going out to places like that. If they'd held on a bit longer, maybe another 2-3 months, I'd probably have felt differently, but with the timing of the release, home viewing was my only option really.


Quote
For all of those situations where Disney got *more* money out of a single consumer because D+Premier > single theater ticket, there's situations where (if not for the pandemic) they got less.  For the jingle.family, they got $30 out of us, for 3 of us to watch it.  If not for the pandemic, they would've got upwards of $50 out of us to see it in the theater.  I have to assume that there are far more instances of groups of people watching at home vs one person watching it at home, and as such releasing on D+Premier because of the pandemic cost them money.  Here in Canada, we would not have been able to see it on release weekend (theaters were still closed), but could, and likely would now (jingle.son and I are going to see Suicide Squad in theaters on Thursday).  So the decision to release on D+Premier represents less revenue to Disney, and less revenue for ScarJo.
Yes of course, but "if not for the pandemic" is doing a lot of work in that paragraph. I completely agree that had there been no pandemic, the film would have made considerably more in total and done so all at the box office as normal. But there is a pandemic. Even where cinemas are open, lots of people (especially those not double-vaxxed, which I wasn't when the film released) aren't rushing to go to theaters. So, given the fact of the pandemic, I think it's likely the movie would have made less in total had it been in theaters only (which is what I thought you were saying, and I was agreeing with?).


Ariich is a freak, or somehow has more hours in the day than everyone else.
I be am boner inducing.

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 43380
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!


Her contract would have been signed WELL before the pandemic, and I assume well before any thoughts of a D+ Premier Access service as a significant revenue source, so it's understandable how considerations for that would not have worked it's way into the contract.

But they said they discussed it.   I don't think this is a completely accurate statement.  We're talking 2019, not 1979.  Disney+ launched in November of 2019, so we're not contemplating nuclear fission-level technology.



Yes of course, but "if not for the pandemic" is doing a lot of work in that paragraph. I completely agree that had there been no pandemic, the film would have made considerably more in total and done so all at the box office as normal. But there is a pandemic. Even where cinemas are open, lots of people (especially those not double-vaxxed, which I wasn't when the film released) aren't rushing to go to theaters. So, given the fact of the pandemic, I think it's likely the movie would have made less in total had it been in theaters only (which is what I thought you were saying, and I was agreeing with?).

I don't think we should be too cavalier with our assumptions and we shouldn't just isolate one variable.  Sure, some might have seen this in a theater rather than Disney+, but some may not and there may have been OTHER movies released in competition, cutting into the proceeds.   I don't think it's linear "no pandemic, higher theater box office for that particular film".  I wasn't going either way, frankly, and with the pandemic, I'm MORE likely to watch it on Disney+ than not, so FOR ME, Scarjo isn't losing a dollar. Same for my kid.

Offline lonestar

  • DTF Executive Chef
  • Official DTF Tour Guide
  • ****
  • Posts: 29955
  • Gender: Male
  • Silly Hatted Knife Chucker
No matter the outcome between the case between rich actress and ultra powerful rich corporate conglomerate, the meme game has been fire the last day or so...






Offline jingle.boy

  • I'm so ronery; so sad and ronery
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 44808
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
So, given the fact of the pandemic, I think it's likely the movie would have made less in total had it been in theaters only (which is what I thought you were saying, and I was agreeing with?).

Yes, I think we're in agreement.  Theaters only as a July release... definitely less money.  September or October release... who knows.

In early 2019 (likely when the contract was signed ... if not earlier), there was no notion of D+ Premier Access or a global pandemic.  So, the expected outcomes (for both Disney and Scarlett) for an exclusive theatrical release were in sync.  The pandemic and Disney changed the game, and Disney still took steps to do what they felt would maximize their revenues, while Scarlett got hooped (on the assumption she isn't getting a cut of Premier Access revenue).  IMO, this lawsuit is her taking steps to do what she feels maximizes her revenues.  Fair play in my opinion.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Offline lonestar

  • DTF Executive Chef
  • Official DTF Tour Guide
  • ****
  • Posts: 29955
  • Gender: Male
  • Silly Hatted Knife Chucker
Has it been confirmed that she didn't get a cut of the D+ revenue?