The "Black Widow (2021)" Film Thread - SPOILERS!!! Now Out On Home Video Sept 14

[lonestar]

Outstanding video, thanks for sharing.

[Lonk]

Not sure why I was slow to make this connection, but I just noticed that the jacket Yelena gives Natasha in the movie, is the same jacket Natasha wears all throughout Infinity War  I had to look it up to confirm.

[Adami]

I also did not notice that. Nice detail!

[lonestar]

Of course she kept it, it has lots of pockets.

[DoctorAction]

Ha! Great spot. Cool.

[soupytwist]

Two additions thoughts.

- That cover of Teen Spirit at the start is awful.
- The villains plot is basically the same as Blofeld's in 'On her Majesty's secret service'

[Zantera]

Two additions thoughts.

- That cover of Teen Spirit at the start is awful.

I agree. I don't get why they pick those songs, I know there was the Come Together cover in Justice League as well. I don't mind covers in general but when you take these songs that are so iconic and you go the cover route, it almost always falls flat IMO.

[jingle.boy]

Two additions thoughts.

- That cover of Teen Spirit at the start is awful.

I didn't mind it, actually

- The villains plot is basically the same as Blofeld's in 'On her Majesty's secret service'

It was also pretty damned close to Striker/Wolverine as well.  I was so reminded of the scene from x2 where Striker casually walks out on Wolverine, knowing he had a formidable opponent to hold him off while he escapes. Drakov's arc was such a mish-mash of cliched villains throughout cinema history, it easily makes him the worst villain in the MCU - yes, worse than Malekith.

[lordxizor]

Saw it last night. Pretty much the same thoughts as everyone else. It was great being back in the theater. Honestly I would have gone months ago if there had been something worth seeing, but there wasn't. Lots of criticisms, but it was fun and ultimately that's all that really matters.

[jammindude]

You guys are high. The Teen Spirit cover completely kicked ass and made me want to actually buy a soundtrack for the first time in 15 years.

[lordxizor]

You guys are high. The Teen Spirit cover completely kicked ass and made me want to actually buy a soundtrack for the first time in 15 years.

I liked it too. Though I won't be buying the soundtrack.

[Adami]

You guys are high. The Teen Spirit cover completely kicked ass and made me want to actually buy a soundtrack for the first time in 15 years.

I liked it until the chorus kicked in. Not sure why but it took me out when it did. Just felt a bit too distracting.

[Lonk]

I actually liked the cover (which is telling since I don't like the original). My issue with it is that it felt like it went 1 minute too long.

[ariich]

It’s a flawed movie that I really really enjoyed.

The villain is INCREDIBLY weak and I’m really disappointed that THATS the version of TaskMaster we’re going to get. Such a cool character reduced down to nothing. And yes, everyone should’ve died like 5 times each but survived without a scratch.

Despite those flaws, I loved it. The character work was great, the humor was spot on, especially mocking the super hero pose. And as much as I didn’t like TaskMaster, I did appreciate her doing the scissor kick spin thing on Nat for the first time.

If/when I do a big rewatch, I’ll be excited to get to this one. Definitely a middle of the pack movie, but only because so many others are just so good.

Of all the posts in this thread so far, this is closest to my opinion. Not a perfect movie but still great with plenty to love about it, and around mid-table in the MCU, maybe very slightly higher.

The main difference between our opinions is that I'm generally more positive than you about the plot and the villain, Dreykov. Not that he was especially great on his own, but I saw him and the main plot around him as more of an allegory for powerful men who control women (I mean, with Ray Winstone in the role he even kind of looked a bit like Harvey Weinstein). As with the film in general, it wasn't done perfectly but I still thought it was done quite well and gave the story a broader and more interesting perspective (to me, anyway).

[Adami]

That's a really good point I didn't really notice.

It doesn't make HIM a more interesting villain, but it makes the whole situation more interesting. Wish they explored that a bit more, but then I guess they'd risk half the country saying Marvel is too woke and preachy or what not.

[lonestar]

It’s a flawed movie that I really really enjoyed.

The villain is INCREDIBLY weak and I’m really disappointed that THATS the version of TaskMaster we’re going to get. Such a cool character reduced down to nothing. And yes, everyone should’ve died like 5 times each but survived without a scratch.

Despite those flaws, I loved it. The character work was great, the humor was spot on, especially mocking the super hero pose. And as much as I didn’t like TaskMaster, I did appreciate her doing the scissor kick spin thing on Nat for the first time.

If/when I do a big rewatch, I’ll be excited to get to this one. Definitely a middle of the pack movie, but only because so many others are just so good.

Of all the posts in this thread so far, this is closest to my opinion. Not a perfect movie but still great with plenty to love about it, and around mid-table in the MCU, maybe very slightly higher.

The main difference between our opinions is that I'm generally more positive than you about the plot and the villain, Dreykov. Not that he was especially great on his own, but I saw him and the main plot around him as more of an allegory for powerful men who control women (I mean, with Ray Winstone in the role he even kind of looked a bit like Harvey Weinstein). As with the film in general, it wasn't done perfectly but I still thought it was done quite well and gave the story a broader and more interesting perspective (to me, anyway).

I totally picked up on the Harvey Weinstein vibe as well, wonder if that was done on purpose, since so little in the MCU is accidental.

[soupytwist]

Wish they explored that a bit more, but then I guess they'd risk half the country saying Marvel is too woke and preachy or what not.

Sadly that's been happening since Captain Marvel.

[ariich]

That's a really good point I didn't really notice.

It doesn't make HIM a more interesting villain, but it makes the whole situation more interesting. Wish they explored that a bit more, but then I guess they'd risk half the country saying Marvel is too woke and preachy or what not.

Yeah absolutely. Some people complained that Captain Marvel was too on the nose with its feminism themes (I didn't feel that way but I can see the argument), but this was a little more subtle, maybe intentionally I guess.

Either way I think it works pretty well, and makes some of the plot points quite interesting that on their own could have been cliche or bland, like the fact that even the seemingly powerful women such as Melina are also under his control and struggle to break away from it.

[Zantera]

The exaggerated action set pieces and Black Widow not taking any damage is definitely the weakest part of the film. I really miss the good old days when every superhero movie didn't have to end with a giant 'take over the world' or 'save the world' type plot. This film would have been a lot better for me if it was just the 'family' taking down a crime syndicate but instead we have this giant bad guy base, tons of explosions and things are just taken too the extreme. And again, Black Widow not taking any damage just takes away any emotional stakes for me. Yeah I know she can't die because this takes place in between movies, but to show her hurt and wounded would still add more to the movie than having her with no scratches at the end.

[Stadler]

That's a really good point I didn't really notice.

It doesn't make HIM a more interesting villain, but it makes the whole situation more interesting. Wish they explored that a bit more, but then I guess they'd risk half the country saying Marvel is too woke and preachy or what not.

Which clearly doesn't bother Marvel even a little bit, so it's not that.

[Orbert]

Saw it tonight, at the cinema.  It was loud.

I know they mentioned Budapest, but I still don't understand what happened.  Barton something something something.

[The Letter M]

Saw it tonight, at the cinema.  It was loud.

I know they mentioned Budapest, but I still don't understand what happened.  Barton something something something.

The short version is that Barton worked with Romanoff on a mission to assassinate Dreykov, her last mission to to prove she was defecting to SHIELD and giving up her Red Room/Widow life to become an agent.

After the assassination attempt, they were on the run, from her safe house (where Yelena was staying, mentioning the arrow holes in the walls), to a subway air vent, where they hid for several days playing tic-tac-toe and hangman.

-Marc.

[Orbert]

Ah, thank you!  I heard the first part but had trouble putting it together with the second part.  So that would be the mission where she shot Dreykov's daughter, and didn't manage to kill Dreykov himself, right?

[Adami]

Saw it tonight, at the cinema.  It was loud.

I know they mentioned Budapest, but I still don't understand what happened.  Barton something something something.

It was loud, wasn’t it? I wasn’t sure if it was actually super loud or if I just hadn’t been to a theater in so long but it was quite unpleasant at times.

[Orbert]

Probably just me getting old, and possibly you too.

[The Letter M]

Ah, thank you!  I heard the first part but had trouble putting it together with the second part.  So that would be the mission where she shot Dreykov's daughter, and didn't manage to kill Dreykov himself, right?

Not so much shot, but exploded a building that Antonia Dreykov had entered. I think Natasha was under the assumption that she arrived to the building where her father would be, and so she used her as collateral damage to take out Dreykov. While not explicitly shown in the film, we are to assume that Dreykov wasn't there and let his daughter get blown up to make Natasha believe she had killed him, while also giving her that red in her ledger that Loki alludes to in the Avengers ("Dreykov's daughter...").

During that Budapest flashback scene, she is also talking to Clint on radio, confirming to go ahead with the assassination via explosion.

-Marc.

[Dream Team]

Saw it today, and loved it. Natasha/Scarlett is awesome and she deserved this. I know that no amount of violence is enough these days, but she got hurt plenty. Bruises all over, a broken nose, stabbed and bleeding, etc. All these movies have normal humans surviving impossible circumstances so nothing new there.

The emotional scenes were done well and delivered the goods. And yeah I choked up when I saw the grave stone.

[King Postwhore]

I loved the driving action scenes. They are more impressive than the cgi action. They balance that so well.

[jingle.boy]

I loved the driving action scenes. They are more impressive than the cgi action. They balance that so well.

You don't think there's a shit-ton of CGI in those scenes??   

[King Postwhore]

There's a mix dude. The cars are real. Come on man.

[jingle.boy]

There's a mix dude. The cars are real. Come on man.

I'd bet at least 1/2 (maybe all) of what that car/tank rammed through was CGI.

[King Postwhore]

There's a mix dude. The cars are real. Come on man.

I'd bet at least 1/2 (maybe all) of what that car/tank rammed through was CGI.

Has an old school action feel like The Winter Soldier did in the car chase scenes.

[Zantera]

I don't mean to sound negative on the movie as I still enjoyed it but having seen Mission Impossible Fallout from a few years ago which has a car/bike chase not too different from the one in Black Widow, it was like night and day in terms of quality. But it's probably unfair because Tom Cruise goes the extra mile and the amount of practical stunts is almost unbelievable when you stack it up to almost any other blockbuster where 90% of the work was done by guys in front of their computers. I'm sure there's a lot of people who love their CGI explosions but personally I would take a more realistic car crash where they actually crash a car, over a car being exploded, flipped and rolling down a subway which looks super fake.

[King Postwhore]

Tom Cruise action scenes are second to none. Tge man is nuts doing a ton of his own stunts

My favorite car chase scene is from the movie, "Ronin" if you've never seen it.

[Dream Team]

Regarding that Teen Spirit cover, I can’t stand it because almost every episode of every  “drama” series my wife watches ends with some pathetically lame hack droning their way through the same-sounding crap in a desperate attempt to add pathos. SO FREAKIN OVERDONE.