Battle of the 80s Rock LP's Volume 2: Back in Black vs Appetite for Destruction

[WildRanger]

As for who or what influenced GnR, I don't really see ACDC in their sound. Though if we're being honest, aside from a pillowcase full of tormented cats, I couldn't discern any particular influence.

A heavy influence on both the image and sound of Guns N' Roses was the Finnish band Hanoi Rocks (singer Michael Monroe and Rose have collaborated on various occasions). Rose has stated that the band was massively inspired by groups like Queen, AC/DC, The Rolling Stones, Aerosmith, and Rose Tattoo, and that the sound of Appetite for Destruction was influenced by AC/DC, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Cheap Trick, Aerosmith, Van Halen, the New York Dolls, and Hanoi Rocks. The band was also influenced by the likes of T. Rex, the Sex Pistols and Accept.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns_N%27_Roses#Legacy,_style,_influence,_and_criticism

[nick_z]

As for who or what influenced GnR, I don't really see ACDC in their sound. Though if we're being honest, aside from a pillowcase full of tormented cats, I couldn't discern any particular influence.

 

At the same time people regard GnR like they were the new Zeppelin or some shit.

Yeah, you are definitely not wrong here. For me, I don't particularly care either way - What I truly love is Appetite, not necessarily GnR. That album is very close to hard rock perfection, as far as I am concerned. The UYI albums, not so much. Like I said before, I have fantastic memories of the time when they were released, and I listened the crap out of them, but they can't really touch Appetite. To go back to the HoF considerations (again, not that it matters): I don't see GnR as HoF material, but I definitely do Appetite, if we were to have an "album-based" RnR HoF!

[jammindude]

I think appetite was very different from what came before it. You have to remember that this was coming out during a time when glam metal had become all the rage.

Sure, it may have borrowed a lot from bands a decade earlier, but what new fresh band doesn’t borrow from something a decade old or so and then put a fresh spin on it? that’s what makes it fresh.

Metal had just spent the previous five or six years trying to make all the men look like girls, and then suddenly here came these gritty sleazy guys Who looked like they hadn’t even taken a shower before they jumped on stage. LOL

In short, it was 10 times as “dangerous“ as Poison, Ratt, Britney Fox, Winger, White Lion and their ilk. So, yes…when it came out, it was a very refreshing return to rock being something that scared your parents again.

[nick_z]

Yes, exactly. Not that I was aware at the time, of course. But they definitely brought something "new" to the table, both musically and attitude-wise, compared to the years immediately preceding their arrival on the scene.

[WildRanger]

I think appetite was very different from what came before it. You have to remember that this was coming out during a time when glam metal had become all the rage.

Sure, it may have borrowed a lot from bands a decade earlier, but what new fresh band doesn’t borrow from something a decade old or so and then put a fresh spin on it? that’s what makes it fresh.

Metal had just spent the previous five or six years trying to make all the men look like girls, and then suddenly here came these gritty sleazy guys Who looked like they hadn’t even taken a shower before they jumped on stage. LOL

In short, it was 10 times as “dangerous“ as Poison, Ratt, Britney Fox, Winger, White Lion and their ilk. So, yes…when it came out, it was a very refreshing return to rock being something that scared your parents again.

Yep, Appetite was raw, dirty, nasty and ballsy hard rock, unlike cheesy hair or glam metal of that time.

[El Barto]

While hair metal was certainly the big thing, there were parallel trends going on. It was a pretty decent year for thrash, which some of us had already moved towards. Hell, even rap was going strong at that point with Public Enemy and Ice T. At that point I'm listening to Among the Living, Scream Bloody Gore,  Abigale, etc., all of which came out around the same time, specifically to get away from the hair metal. Paradise City wasn't exactly a move in the right direction from my point of view. It was only slightly less cheesy than Look What the Cat Dragged In when Thrash is your bag.

[KevShmev]

Yeah, it's cute when hardcore GNR fans try to act like they weren't part of the hair rock movement.  Go watch their first video, Welcome to the Jungle. Both Axl and the drummer both look like they used about two full cans of Aqua Net on their heads.

[TAC]

Yeah, it's cute when hardcore GNR fans try to act like they weren't part of the hair rock movement.  Go watch their first video, Welcome to the Jungle. Both Axl and the drummer both look like they used about two full cans of Aqua Net on their heads.

Yeah but they really weren't part of the hair movement.

There was a legit-ness to their music that really separated them.

[CrimsonSunrise]

Appetite, all day and twice on Tuesdays!

[KevShmev]

Yeah, it's cute when hardcore GNR fans try to act like they weren't part of the hair rock movement.  Go watch their first video, Welcome to the Jungle. Both Axl and the drummer both look like they used about two full cans of Aqua Net on their heads.

Yeah but they really weren't part of the hair movement.

There was a legit-ness to their music that really separated them.

Maybe, maybe not, but they looked and sounded enough like the average hair rock band to where, fair or not, they get lumped in with them.

[TAC]

Yeah, it's cute when hardcore GNR fans try to act like they weren't part of the hair rock movement.  Go watch their first video, Welcome to the Jungle. Both Axl and the drummer both look like they used about two full cans of Aqua Net on their heads.

Yeah but they really weren't part of the hair movement.

There was a legit-ness to their music that really separated them.

Maybe, maybe not, but they looked and sounded enough like the average hair rock band to where, fair or not, they get lumped in with them.

Not. Even. Close.

[KevShmev]

Yeah, it's cute when hardcore GNR fans try to act like they weren't part of the hair rock movement.  Go watch their first video, Welcome to the Jungle. Both Axl and the drummer both look like they used about two full cans of Aqua Net on their heads.

[TAC]

I can quote myself too.

Not. Even. Close.

[KevShmev]

You can almost smell the Aqua net.

[TAC]

I don't have the energy to do this tonight.

[KevShmev]

Maybe you just need a little patience, yeah, yeah.

[TAC]

I used to love you but I had to kill you.

[jammindude]

Please. Just because they got told to tease their hair to promote their first video does not mean they sounded or in any other way were lumped in with hair metal. I think Stretch Armstrong just entered the building.

[TAC]

I think Stretch Armstrong just entered the building.

 

Kev's got a new name!

[KevShmev]

Right, because Axl Rose has ever done what he was told.  You guys are cute. 

[Stadler]

As for who or what influenced GnR, I don't really see ACDC in their sound. Though if we're being honest, aside from a pillowcase full of tormented cats, I couldn't discern any particular influence.

A heavy influence on both the image and sound of Guns N' Roses was the Finnish band Hanoi Rocks (singer Michael Monroe and Rose have collaborated on various occasions). Rose has stated that the band was massively inspired by groups like Queen, AC/DC, The Rolling Stones, Aerosmith, and Rose Tattoo, and that the sound of Appetite for Destruction was influenced by AC/DC, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Cheap Trick, Aerosmith, Van Halen, the New York Dolls, and Hanoi Rocks. The band was also influenced by the likes of T. Rex, the Sex Pistols and Accept.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns_N%27_Roses#Legacy,_style,_influence,_and_criticism

Google "Axl Rose Richard Black".  He was the singer for "Shark Island" (and did that "Contraband" record with Michael Schenker).   The Used Bin Radio guys used to talk about this ALL the time.

[El Barto]

The truth is that you're really not going to make it coming out of the Whisky A Go Go in 1986 if you're not doing the hair metal thing. Granted, GnR had more going on than their peers, and they certainly took things in a different direction once Appetite gave them that option, but let's not suddenly pretend that they weren't doing the same things as all the other hair bands at the time. You watch videos of GnR playing the Whisky in the mid 80s and aside from being better songwriters, which isn't saying a whole lot, I'm not sure what really separates them from Poison, Ratt, or any other notable bands from that time and place.

And back to my point, watch that video after listening to Baptized in Blood or Raining Blood and see if you don't think of it as hair metal by the numbers.

[jammindude]

You can’t compare GNR, to the thrash movement. The thrash movement was 100% “grassroots” in the late 80s. It gained popularity with zero media or radio support.

I tried to get the local rock station to play Welcome Home Sanitarium on METAL SHOP when it was brand new. The DJ said that we (Metallica fans) needed to quit bombarding the station with requests because they were never going to play Metallica. They were way too heavy and over the top.

I lived through this. I was there. GNR were a different animal. Very much more dangerous than bands like Winger, but more palatable than thrash, which was fully rejected by the media outright.

Even Hetfield at one time proclaimed that Metallica would have never become a stadiums band without the success of GNR first. (Although I don’t know if I fully agree with that assessment…it’s not without merit entirely)

[El Barto]

I'm not comparing GnR to thrash. I'm comparing GnR to hair metal. Thrash simply highlights the point.

[KevShmev]

This is like when a non-prog fans gets upset with a band they like with strong similarities to prog is called prog, as they know prog is a dirty word in many circles, thus they do not want their band associated with it, just like G n' R fans here do not want to them associated with hair rock (which is also a dirty word/phrase in many circles) even though they are more similar than dissimilar to the bands in that subgenre.

We can talk about "dangerous" and some differences all we want, but I lived it (as I know others did here as well).  Everyone I knew in the late 80's put them in the hair rock category (and no one considered that the insult it is now to many).  In 1988, you could watch MTV and get videos in a row from Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, Stryper, Guns N' Roses and Europe, and they were all had a similar enough look and sound to where it just made sense to consider them all part of the same movement/subgenre.  It's just the way it was.

[pg1067]

Yeah, it's cute when hardcore GNR fans try to act like they weren't part of the hair rock movement.  Go watch their first video, Welcome to the Jungle. Both Axl and the drummer both look like they used about two full cans of Aqua Net on their heads.

Yeah but they really weren't part of the hair movement.

There was a legit-ness to their music that really separated them.

Maybe, maybe not, but they looked and sounded enough like the average hair rock band to where, fair or not, they get lumped in with them.

Not. Even. Close.

As someone who spent a lot of time on the Sunset Strip in the mid- to late '80s, Kev is right on the money.  The biggest difference is that GnR looked a bit uglier/less feminine that most of the glam bands at the time.

Everyone I knew in the late 80's put them in the hair rock category (and no one considered that the insult it is now to many).  In 1988, you could watch MTV and get videos in a row from Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, Stryper, Guns N' Roses and Europe, and they were all had a similar enough look and sound to where it just made sense to consider them all part of the same movement/subgenre.  It's just the way it was.

Exactly.

[TAC]

I don't know man.

I mean, look at Appetite's back cover:



And compare it to Look What The Cat Dragged In..



I mean, other than both bands having hair, there's simply no comparison.

Admittedly, the label may have had something to do with the puffy hair publicity shots and the look in the Welcome To The Jungle video, but that's it. By they time they shot the Sweet Child video, there was no puffy hair.

Just because Lil' Kev could sit down in his pajamas and watch MTV in late 1987 or 1988 and see GnR videos amongst the rest of the other bands of the day, doesn't make them a hair metal band. They didn't look like a hair metal band. They didn't sound like a hair metal band.

I wasn't walking the Sunset Strip, but I was in on GnR early on. I remember Kerrang writing articles about them before Appetite was released. I saw them on their first East Coast club tour and took this pic:



No puffy hair here.




@ PG, I appreciate your West Coast view but I was also experiencing GnR in real time, and I mean before they hit it big. So I guess we may end up just disagreeing. Cool.

@Kev, you're the Steven A. Smith of music takes.

[jammindude]

Tim is spot on. The rest is a shocking example of revisionist history.

[KevShmev]

No, revisionist history is suggesting that they were not considered by many to be part of the hair rock scene when they clearly were.  I will circle back to my earlier point about being obvious that "hair rock" is considered somewhat of an insult, and some lovers of the band think they were better than that, so they are retroactively trying to act like they were never part of something that they quite obviously were. 

[TAC]

  I will circle back to my earlier point about being obvious that "hair rock" is considered somewhat of an insult, and some lovers of the band think they were better than that, so they are retroactively trying to act like they were never part of something that they quite obviously were.

Ugh. I don't consider it an insult. I just consider it wrong. I'm not protective of GnR's reputation or anything like that. They were never a hair metal band. Ever. I'm kind of flabbergasted that this is even a discussion.

[KevShmev]

  I will circle back to my earlier point about being obvious that "hair rock" is considered somewhat of an insult, and some lovers of the band think they were better than that, so they are retroactively trying to act like they were never part of something that they quite obviously were.

Ugh. I don't consider it an insult. I just consider it wrong. I'm not protective of GnR's reputation or anything like that. They were never a hair metal band. Ever. I'm kind of flabbergasted that this is even a discussion.

I honestly was speaking more in generalities, hence why I said "some lovers of the band think they are better than that," as I have seen it a lot over the years, the suggestion that G N' R was better than "those lame ass hair rockers."   I will put it this way: to a large degree, I put hair rock in what I often refer to as "party rock," which is that kind of 80's trashy hard rock that just sounds fun, ya know, music that rocks that you'd hear at a party that would get both men and women moving.  And these bands almost always had the token totally 80's-sounding monster ballad, ala Home Sweet Home, Sweet Child O' Mine, Every Rose Has Its Thorn or Honestly.  If Van Halen and Aerosmith were new bands in the later 80's, they probably would have been lumped into that category as well (songs like Rag Doll and Angel would have fit right into the genre, but they were also established as a hard rock/blues rock band, and were from the 70's, so they escaped the label), and actually I have seen VH put in that category by some before, although I think they kind of set the template for what would later become full-fledged hair rock, if that makes sense.  None of the OU812 hits, though, sounded similar to the average hair rocker tune of the latter 80's, though, but VH was kind of the pioneers in a sense of that party rock sound that eventually melded with the hair rock sound of the mid to later 80's, IMO.  I hope that explains better where I am coming from.

[pg1067]

No, revisionist history is suggesting that they were not considered by many to be part of the hair rock scene when they clearly were.

Yup.  At least where I was.

[jammindude]

No, revisionist history is suggesting that they were not considered by many to be part of the hair rock scene when they clearly were.

Yup.  At least where I was.

Yup….and there were a ton of people in 1980 who categorized AC/DC as “heavy metal”….doesn’t mean they were correct.

[TAC]

Yeah, and some people like Power Windows..












...and Winger.

[jammindude]

Yeah, and some people like Power Windows..












...and Winger.

You know…I *WAS* taking your side. Et tu Brutus? Et tu?