Battle of the 80s Rock LP's Volume 1: Slippery When Wet vs Hysteria

[TAC]

When Vivian joined Def Leppard, I was really excited about it. But he basically was useless, because apparently, they never had any intention on getting heavier.

[cramx3]

When Vivian joined Def Leppard, I was really excited about it. But he basically was useless, because apparently, they never had any intention on getting heavier.

Funny enough, there's been news the last few days of Rick Allen saying Adrian Smith was a serious contender to join the band.

[TAC]

When Vivian joined Def Leppard, I was really excited about it. But he basically was useless, because apparently, they never had any intention on getting heavier.

Funny enough, there's been news the last few days of Rick Allen saying Adrian Smith was a serious contender to join the band.

I saw that. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

[cramx3]

When Vivian joined Def Leppard, I was really excited about it. But he basically was useless, because apparently, they never had any intention on getting heavier.

Funny enough, there's been news the last few days of Rick Allen saying Adrian Smith was a serious contender to join the band.

I saw that. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

It all worked out in the end IMO

[TAC]

On the Maiden end for sure. But Like I said, I was hopeful when Vivian joined Def Leppard that they'd get some edge back, and it just never happened.

[cramx3]

On the Maiden end for sure. But Like I said, I was hopeful when Vivian joined Def Leppard that they'd get some edge back, and it just never happened.

I didn't become a fan until much later (Born in 84) so a lot of this stuff doesn't really relate to me.  It was all said and done before I knew who they were.  But looking back, was there really any reason to think they'd become more heavy after the success of going softer?

[TAC]

On the Maiden end for sure. But Like I said, I was hopeful when Vivian joined Def Leppard that they'd get some edge back, and it just never happened.

I didn't become a fan until much later (Born in 84) so a lot of this stuff doesn't really relate to me.  It was all said and done before I knew who they were.  But looking back, was there really any reason to think they'd become more heavy after the success of going softer?

Well, I thought a combination of Vivian, who was amazing on the first three Dio albums, and the timing (early 90's) where bands where basically un-80's-ing, would lead to a harder edged injection. At the end of the day, I've always had some sort of hope where I could find something about Def Leppard to like. I still drop the needle on their releases, but sometimes I feel like I'm beating my head against the wall.

[gazinwales]

Hysteria by a massive margin.
Everything is next level superior sound (that has stood the test of time), production, song writing, mix and master.
It's has the hits plus a handful of deep cuts and no filler.

[bosk1]

@TAC:  People tend to think of Vivian as a heavy player because of his work in Dio.  Or, at least, that's how they thought of him at the time he joined Def Lep.  And rightly so, since that was the most high profile gig he had done up to that point.  Even Whitesnake was a "hard rock" band (by '80s/early-'90s standards).  But if you paid close attention to things he had said over the years, and his work in Riverdogs (which I didn't either, so I'm not pointing fingers here), it shouldn't come as a surprise that he was moving away from that "harder" rock that he was more known for up to that point in time. 

That said, again, I also failed to see the writing on the wall in that regard and also thought he would take them back in a slightly heavier direction, maybe more like Pyromania.  I mean, I wasn't really expecting them to go back to the more raw sound of High N Dry.  And, honestly, given my tastes at the time, I didn't really want that either.  (I love HND, but I first got into the band with Pyromania, and still consider it "all time" greatness, and feel like OTTN and HND, while being fantastic albums, represented a band that was still in the process of really finding themselves and just short of fully hitting their stride)  But Pyromania had a great combination of slick polish and a slight edge, and I felt this his background in Dio and Whitesnake seemed like an ideal fit to take the band back more in that direction.  Again, I didn't really realize at the time that that isn't really where his head was as a musician, and that he was perfectly content to follow along with the band's softer, more pop and glam influenced rock.

[TAC]

@TAC:  People tend to think of Vivian as a heavy player because of his work in Dio.  Or, at least, that's how they thought of him at the time he joined Def Lep.  And rightly so, since that was the most high profile gig he had done up to that point.  Even Whitesnake was a "hard rock" band (by '80s/early-'90s standards).  But if you paid close attention to things he had said over the years, and his work in Riverdogs (which I didn't either, so I'm not pointing fingers here), it shouldn't come as a surprise that he was moving away from that "harder" rock that he was more known for up to that point in time. 

That said, again, I also failed to see the writing on the wall in that regard and also thought he would take them back in a slightly heavier direction, maybe more like Pyromania.  I mean, I wasn't really expecting them to go back to the more raw sound of High N Dry.  And, honestly, given my tastes at the time, I didn't really want that either.  (I love HND, but I first got into the band with Pyromania, and still consider it "all time" greatness, and feel like OTTN and HND, while being fantastic albums, represented a band that was still in the process of really finding themselves and just short of fully hitting their stride)  But Pyromania had a great combination of slick polish and a slight edge, and I felt this his background in Dio and Whitesnake seemed like an ideal fit to take the band back more in that direction.  Again, I didn't really realize at the time that that isn't really where his head was as a musician, and that he was perfectly content to follow along with the band's softer, more pop and glam influenced rock.

Bosk, that's a great post. This thread has put my stomach in knots all day long!

I'm going to mull it over while I go for (of all things) a haircut.

[Stadler]

I cannot stand Bon Jovi.

Hysteria was the end of Def Lep for me, but there were still some decent songs on it. That Early Years set from them is where it's at.

Hysteria all the way.

This is kind of me, though I've come to appreciate Bon Jovi more over the years (and Wanted Dead Or Alive is perhaps the PERFECT guitar solo).  Also, kudos for whoever mentioned the DL B-sides.  I thought it was a crime against nature when they dickered with them on the Retrospective album.  I had cassette copies of the four "new" songs - "Tear It Down", "I Wanna Be Your Hero", "Ride Into the Sun", and "Ring of Fire" that I carried around with me for years, and later transferred them to CD to be able to listen to them in the car.  I was pretty jazzed when the original versions came back out on the deluxe version.

[DoctorAction]

Slippery When Wet by a huuuuuuge margin. Hearing YGLABN on the radio ignited a spark in my head and is the reason I've loved rock and metal ever since. There are no duff tracks on SWW afaic and the meaty riffs and leads of Sambora stiil make me pull shapes.

Hysteria has Gods Of War and a unique sound but Leppard peaked with HnD imo.

[TAC]

My all time favorite Vivian related video..

https://youtu.be/zOwZBo8FQvo?t=37

[pg1067]

My all time favorite Vivian related video..

https://youtu.be/zOwZBo8FQvo?t=37

Damn!

[bosk1]

Yeah, I remember that.  Any respect that I had for Dio went out the window with that one.

[TAC]

@TAC:  People tend to think of Vivian as a heavy player because of his work in Dio.  Or, at least, that's how they thought of him at the time he joined Def Lep.  And rightly so, since that was the most high profile gig he had done up to that point.  Even Whitesnake was a "hard rock" band (by '80s/early-'90s standards).  But if you paid close attention to things he had said over the years, and his work in Riverdogs (which I didn't either, so I'm not pointing fingers here), it shouldn't come as a surprise that he was moving away from that "harder" rock that he was more known for up to that point in time. 

That said, again, I also failed to see the writing on the wall in that regard and also thought he would take them back in a slightly heavier direction, maybe more like Pyromania.  I mean, I wasn't really expecting them to go back to the more raw sound of High N Dry.  And, honestly, given my tastes at the time, I didn't really want that either.  (I love HND, but I first got into the band with Pyromania, and still consider it "all time" greatness, and feel like OTTN and HND, while being fantastic albums, represented a band that was still in the process of really finding themselves and just short of fully hitting their stride)  But Pyromania had a great combination of slick polish and a slight edge, and I felt this his background in Dio and Whitesnake seemed like an ideal fit to take the band back more in that direction.  Again, I didn't really realize at the time that that isn't really where his head was as a musician, and that he was perfectly content to follow along with the band's softer, more pop and glam influenced rock.

So, the thing about Def Leppard was that they were my first favorite band that wasn't a 70's holdover like Rush, AC/DC, Van Halen. etc... They were a new band from the 80's and when I was in the 8th grade 81-82, I wore out High n Dry. I was a freshman in high school when Pyromania came out, and I did like it. That tour was my first concert. But I could sense something different about it, and it had my rabbit ears up for what would come next.
I was becoming way more interested in heavier music around this time. Kill 'Em All, the Queensryche EP, and Piece Of Mind in the Spring. Still I was prepared to champion Def Leppard forever.

Hysteria took forever to come out. Apparently they had Jim Steinman on as producer, and my understanding is that they had the album in the can. I remember reading a Kerrang article about it at the time.  But for whatever reason, they called back Mutt Lange. I would LOVE to hear the Steinman version.

To say Hysteria was a disappointment would be a huge understatement. WTF was this shit? I mean WTF? Seriously WTF is this?

Whatever, MTV played the shit out of it. They got the girlie crowd. My gf at the time, who I met in '85 was actually a big DF fan already, who loved Pryo and HnD. I saw the Hysteria tour I think 3 times. And yes, the B-sides were great. I still have the 45's upstairs.

In a vacuum, there's a few songs I thought were decent. The title track is excellent, and I always like Love And Affection. And Gods Of War is pretty good. But after that, there's nothing about this album that I like, or even respect.

I spun the Hysteria At The O2 today. These songs sound pretty good, especially Armageddon It.


And even if Vivian brought them back to the Pyromania style, I could've lived with that. Every time these conversations come up, I drop the needle on their latter day stuff on Spotify, but it is just...to be nice, it is simply not for me.

I won't behoove anyone's memories of Hysteria as a kid. That stuff is sacred. I get that. Hell, I could listen to Blondie's Eat To The Beat all day long!

[Trav86]

Hysteria is a classic, top to bottom. Slippery When Wet has two classic songs, and a handful of decent ones. Hysteria

[ronnibran]

Hysteria easily.  While the biggest of the radio hits I really don't listen to anymore (Animal, Sugar, Hysteria, Armageddon it), there are still plenty of songs that I will never tire of.  Women, Gods of War, Rocket (and yes that was a hit too, but I love it).  I wore through 3 cassettes of it back in the day and it was the first CD I bought after I got my first CD player. 

I also owned Slippery When Wet, but honestly other than the few biggest radio hits from it couldn't name any other songs from it.   My favorite Bon Jovi cd has always been Keep the Faith, but I'm sure that has more to do with it coming out when I was first really getting into music.

[bosk1]

@TAC (post is too long to quote):  I completely get where you are coming from.  And I'm not telling you that you should feel any other way. 

My journey with them was a bit different.  I discovered them with the release of Pyromania.  I immediately fell in love, and they were my favorite band and gateway to a lot of other '80s hard rock.  Went back and explored the two prior albums.  I liked HND a lot as well.  The first album didn't really click, but there were definitely some good songs in there.  I didn't hate it, but it was just too raw for me, and I didn't feel like the songwriting or the production were there.  It is only with the recent rerelease and all the bonus material from that era that I now truly love and appreciate that album.  But for me and this band, it was the "golden age." 

When Hysteria came out, I was initially a bit let down.  It was catchy, and I generally liked it.  But the edge was mostly gone, and I didn't understand why there was very little of the real rock.  But as I immersed myself in it, I really began to appreciate it.  It was hit after hit after hit.  And even though it didn't quite have that edge, the songs were so strong, and there were so many of them, that it didn't matter.  And seeing it all live, where it did have more of an edge, took the album up to a higher level.

But...that is where they plateaued for me, unfortunately.  Adrenalize had some decent tunes, but really felt like an effort to duplicate Hysteria without managing to come close to the heights of that album.  Retroactive was amazing, but that is in large part due to the fact that a lot of it was reworked older material.  Slang was...not very good.  I felt that Euphoria was a real return to form.  Yeah, it was an effort to get back to the Hysteria sound again, and it again fell short of that album.  But it was VERY good (a lot better than Adrenalize), and had a bit more edge to it.  But honestly, while there are a few good songs here and there, after Hysteria, Retroactive and Euphoria are the only solid albums they have done.  The rest is fairly forgettable to me.  However, I don't really mind.  That early stuff, and the odd song here and there from the later years is more than enough for me when I want a Def Leppard fix.  These early albums were amazing, and were a snapshot in time that I look back on fondly, even if the later stuff mostly fell flat for me.  Five really good albums is more than a lot of bands have.

[soupytwist]

@TAC:  People tend to think of Vivian as a heavy player because of his work in Dio.  Or, at least, that's how they thought of him at the time he joined Def Lep.  And rightly so, since that was the most high profile gig he had done up to that point.  Even Whitesnake was a "hard rock" band (by '80s/early-'90s standards).  But if you paid close attention to things he had said over the years, and his work in Riverdogs (which I didn't either, so I'm not pointing fingers here), it shouldn't come as a surprise that he was moving away from that "harder" rock that he was more known for up to that point in time. 

That said, again, I also failed to see the writing on the wall in that regard and also thought he would take them back in a slightly heavier direction, maybe more like Pyromania.  I mean, I wasn't really expecting them to go back to the more raw sound of High N Dry.  And, honestly, given my tastes at the time, I didn't really want that either.  (I love HND, but I first got into the band with Pyromania, and still consider it "all time" greatness, and feel like OTTN and HND, while being fantastic albums, represented a band that was still in the process of really finding themselves and just short of fully hitting their stride)  But Pyromania had a great combination of slick polish and a slight edge, and I felt this his background in Dio and Whitesnake seemed like an ideal fit to take the band back more in that direction.  Again, I didn't really realize at the time that that isn't really where his head was as a musician, and that he was perfectly content to follow along with the band's softer, more pop and glam influenced rock.

So, the thing about Def Leppard was that they were my first favorite band that wasn't a 70's holdover like Rush, AC/DC, Van Halen. etc... They were a new band from the 80's and when I was in the 8th grade 81-82, I wore out High n Dry. I was a freshman in high school when Pyromania came out, and I did like it. That tour was my first concert. But I could sense something different about it, and it had my rabbit ears up for what would come next.
I was becoming way more interested in heavier music around this time. Kill 'Em All, the Queensryche EP, and Piece Of Mind in the Spring. Still I was prepared to champion Def Leppard forever.

Hysteria took forever to come out. Apparently they had Jim Steinman on as producer, and my understanding is that they had the album in the can. I remember reading a Kerrang article about it at the time.  But for whatever reason, they called back Mutt Lange. I would LOVE to hear the Steinman version.

To say Hysteria was a disappointment would be a huge understatement. WTF was this shit? I mean WTF? Seriously WTF is this?

Whatever, MTV played the shit out of it. They got the girlie crowd. My gf at the time, who I met in '85 was actually a big DF fan already, who loved Pryo and HnD. I saw the Hysteria tour I think 3 times. And yes, the B-sides were great. I still have the 45's upstairs.

In a vacuum, there's a few songs I thought were decent. The title track is excellent, and I always like Love And Affection. And Gods Of War is pretty good. But after that, there's nothing about this album that I like, or even respect.

I spun the Hysteria At The O2 today. These songs sound pretty good, especially Armageddon It.


And even if Vivian brought them back to the Pyromania style, I could've lived with that. Every time these conversations come up, I drop the needle on their latter day stuff on Spotify, but it is just...to be nice, it is simply not for me.

I won't behoove anyone's memories of Hysteria as a kid. That stuff is sacred. I get that. Hell, I could listen to Blondie's Eat To The Beat all day long!

Don't really get any of that from Hysteria - Excitable is a tad naff maybe.

Now Adenalize however was a letdown....Let's get rocked is completely goofy and make love like a man is cringe of the highest order.  Only  White Lightning holds up.

[KevShmev]

I never cared for Love Bites until a few years ago. Still not sure how that happened.

Still crazy to think that Hysteria's lead single (Women) was a flop.

Hard to believe that Pour Some Sugar On Me never hit number 1 here in the States at the time, on the Billboard 100 or on the mainstream rock charts.  Seems like that video was played once an hour for months on MTV. 

[King Postwhore]

The second release in America was Animal if memory serves.

[Peter Mc]

Bon Jovi was the real deal. Def Leppard was a Mutt Lange boy band.

Bon Jovi never traded on the looks of Jon and Sambora, huh?

Sure they traded on the looks, but Mutt Lange's productions turned Def Leppard into the NKOTB of hard rock.

As if Desmond Child didn't make a difference in improving Bon Jovi's popularity...

Desmond Child didn’t co-write the whole album with Bon Jovi nor did he produce it.  He co-wrote 4 songs, two of which admittedly were huge hits in Livin On A Prayer and You Give Love A Bad Name.  Other hits though like Wanted Dead Or Alive and Never Say Goodbye were Jon Bon Jovi and Richie Sambora alone as were the majority of the songs on the album.  Desmond Child absolutely helped Bon Jovi (and they helped him) and wrote songs with them for many, many years but Mutt Lange co-wrote and produced the entire Hysteria album.  His influence is all over that album.  There’s nothing wrong with that of course, it was a huge album, one of the biggest rock albums ever.

I went with Slippery as from the age of 10, all the way through my teens, Bon Jovi were my favourite band and that album got played to death.  I still have a huge soft spot for them although their recent albums, especially since Sambora departed, are pretty awful and I won’t pay to watch them anymore.  Wanted Dead Or Alive remains my favourite song of all time though, a perfectly written, perfectly performed, perfectly produced, timeless song, imo of course!

[PetFish]

Ugh, this one was sooooooooo tough.  Great poll.

Bon Jovi is my all-time band and Slippery is amazing... but I have to go with Hysteria.

Def Leppard is also Top 10 for me but what gives it the edge over SWW is it's pretty much all killer and no filler.  It's also kilometers ahead in terms of production and musicianship.  It has so many layers to it.  The sound is just amazing.

[TAC]

October 12, 1987
Providence Civic Center

[bosk1]

And he hasn't worn a shirt since.

[Stadler]

Yeah, I remember that.  Any respect that I had for Dio went out the window with that one.

I've seen that before, but I always found it, well, confounding.  Guys like Eddie Trunk revere Dio and call him the nicest guy in rock, and in some ways he is.   He DOES stand there and sign shit for hours (my friend stood outside the Bushnell in Hartford in February and Dio signed everything that was put in front of him) even knowing it's going on eBay in 12 hours (c'mon with the multiple pickguards; that's bullshit).  But for me, a fan that was around the first time - when he left Rainbow, and feuded with Blackmore, when he left Sabbath, and feuded with Iommi/Butler, when he left Sabbath AGAIN when the band wanted to do the Ozzy retirement gig - it's hard to forget that he can also not be a nice man.   

Sidebar on Dio:  A couple years ago I tried to win this garden gnome at auction, but the prices got too steep.

[T-ski]

@TAC:  People tend to think of Vivian as a heavy player because of his work in Dio.  Or, at least, that's how they thought of him at the time he joined Def Lep.  And rightly so, since that was the most high profile gig he had done up to that point.  Even Whitesnake was a "hard rock" band (by '80s/early-'90s standards).  But if you paid close attention to things he had said over the years, and his work in Riverdogs (which I didn't either, so I'm not pointing fingers here), it shouldn't come as a surprise that he was moving away from that "harder" rock that he was more known for up to that point in time. 

That said, again, I also failed to see the writing on the wall in that regard and also thought he would take them back in a slightly heavier direction, maybe more like Pyromania.  I mean, I wasn't really expecting them to go back to the more raw sound of High N Dry.  And, honestly, given my tastes at the time, I didn't really want that either.  (I love HND, but I first got into the band with Pyromania, and still consider it "all time" greatness, and feel like OTTN and HND, while being fantastic albums, represented a band that was still in the process of really finding themselves and just short of fully hitting their stride)  But Pyromania had a great combination of slick polish and a slight edge, and I felt this his background in Dio and Whitesnake seemed like an ideal fit to take the band back more in that direction.  Again, I didn't really realize at the time that that isn't really where his head was as a musician, and that he was perfectly content to follow along with the band's softer, more pop and glam influenced rock.

So, the thing about Def Leppard was that they were my first favorite band that wasn't a 70's holdover like Rush, AC/DC, Van Halen. etc... They were a new band from the 80's and when I was in the 8th grade 81-82, I wore out High n Dry. I was a freshman in high school when Pyromania came out, and I did like it. That tour was my first concert. But I could sense something different about it, and it had my rabbit ears up for what would come next.
I was becoming way more interested in heavier music around this time. Kill 'Em All, the Queensryche EP, and Piece Of Mind in the Spring. Still I was prepared to champion Def Leppard forever.

Hysteria took forever to come out. Apparently they had Jim Steinman on as producer, and my understanding is that they had the album in the can. I remember reading a Kerrang article about it at the time.  But for whatever reason, they called back Mutt Lange. I would LOVE to hear the Steinman version.

To say Hysteria was a disappointment would be a huge understatement. WTF was this shit? I mean WTF? Seriously WTF is this?

Whatever, MTV played the shit out of it. They got the girlie crowd. My gf at the time, who I met in '85 was actually a big DF fan already, who loved Pryo and HnD. I saw the Hysteria tour I think 3 times. And yes, the B-sides were great. I still have the 45's upstairs.

In a vacuum, there's a few songs I thought were decent. The title track is excellent, and I always like Love And Affection. And Gods Of War is pretty good. But after that, there's nothing about this album that I like, or even respect.

I spun the Hysteria At The O2 today. These songs sound pretty good, especially Armageddon It.


And even if Vivian brought them back to the Pyromania style, I could've lived with that. Every time these conversations come up, I drop the needle on their latter day stuff on Spotify, but it is just...to be nice, it is simply not for me.

I won't behoove anyone's memories of Hysteria as a kid. That stuff is sacred. I get that. Hell, I could listen to Blondie's Eat To The Beat all day long!

Don't really get any of that from Hysteria - Excitable is a tad naff maybe.

Now Adenalize however was a letdown....Let's get rocked is completely goofy and make love like a man is cringe of the highest order.  Only  White Lightning holds up.

Can’t agree with you more on Adrenalize. White Lightning is pretty good, the rest is a steaming pile of doo-doo.

[Stadler]

October 12, 1987
Providence Civic Center

One of my best friends went to see the Def Leppard/Journey tour that came through here about two years or so ago, and I texted him "how was the show?" and he just replied "Abs of steel".   I took my kid to see Kiss and Def Leppard back in 2014 or so, and I'm pretty sure even she commented on Collen.   

For some reason I can't post pics while at work (which I am) but I want to post some of the pics of Vivian from the Last In Line show I saw.  I was so close to Vivian it was almost awkward (and I got a metal pick from him after the show!). 

[cramx3]

I find it a little odd for Phil to keep greasing up his body like a WWE wrestler before performing at this point in his life. 

It's actually really annoying when watching the latest live concert they put out last year.  There's some up close shots of his nipples that really makes me turn to look away with disgust.  Maybe the women love it, I don't know, but it's hard on my eyes when it's so in your face.

[HOF]

As a side note, I listened to Slang for the first time ever recently, and I actually thought it was pretty cool. Definitely more interesting musically than the two albums that preceded it (although I like some of Adrenalize).

[Kotowboy]

Not heard either album but Bon Jovi were much better than Def Leppard. They sounded like a real band whilst to me DL sounded like loads of session guys tweaking an album to death.

[TAC]

Not heard either album but Bon Jovi were much better than Def Leppard. They sounded like a real band whilst to me DL sounded like loads of session guys tweaking an album to death.

Thank you. That's the perfect description.

[KevShmev]

My beef with the Def Leppard sound on Hysteria is the harmonies.  I am sure they were meant to be Queen-ish, with the way they were layered, but they come off sounding almost fake and a bit overdone.  The Queen harmonies always sounded like 100 guys singing.  The Def Leppard ones sounded like one guy singing and then it being layered too much in the studio.

[TAC]

Yup.