Am I a bad person?

[Stadler]

I always tell The Lovely Mrs TAC that the next time we're out, I'll show you a fat ass.
So usually when we are out, and we're behind someone with a huge ass, I'll get my wife's attention and glance down at the fat ass, and give my wife the look.

DUDE!  Have we talked about this before?  Because that's my exact answer as well.

[Stadler]

I’m at the point in my marriage where if we’re walking down the street together and I spot a looker, I’ll give my wife’s hand a squeeze and say out loud, “Wow. THAT’S a good-looking woman.” And she’ll either nod in agreement or scoff at my poor taste.

I'm at a point in my marriage where that would not be a wise thing to say. Not ever.

I wouldn't do that either.  I mean, we will have that conversation at times when the context is supportive of it, but I don't think it's fair to her to do that.  And it's not like I'm going to withstand the scrutiny myself, so why invite that animal into the house?  Would our relationship survive if I said that?  I'm sure it would, but I'm not looking to stress the supports unnecessarily.

[TAC]

I always tell The Lovely Mrs TAC that the next time we're out, I'll show you a fat ass.
So usually when we are out, and we're behind someone with a huge ass, I'll get my wife's attention and glance down at the fat ass, and give my wife the look.

DUDE!  Have we talked about this before?  Because that's my exact answer as well.

Hah! No, we've never talked about that.

[Stadler]

I want to take this out of context and explore this a bit further.  I get you, hunnus, were setting up the joke about your SO's ass, so this isn't directed at you at all.  But I know people who believe that sentence above 100%....meaning they share EVERYTHING and leave out NOTHING.  I think in my younger days I may have...when dating and romance and relationships were new and exhilarating and thinking about the long haul of what it means to be a lifetime partner.  But with the hindsight of aging, I just don't think it holds up.  And maybe this comes down more on an individual style and how we relate to others but frankly, I don't WANT to know EVERYTHING.  Important stuff - yes.  But EVERYTHING?  No. 

I struggled with this for a while coming out of my last relationship; I think for me I landed on "authenticity".  I don't need to be an open book, but any page that is open will be legit.  I don't ACTIVELY keep things from her, but I'm not keeping a list to make sure she can navigate every single minute of my day, either.  She's a quiet reserved person, so I don't get a lot from her without asking, but along these lines, I don't ask her things I don't want to know with the understanding that if I do ask it's only fair that we deal in truth/honesty.

I talk a lot about the difference between thought and action in the P/R threads, and for better or worse I try to walk the walk in my life.  I have to accept that she's going to find things I do annoying, or see other men that are attractive, or consider one of my purchases frivolous.   If it's an issue for her we will talk it through and I will be as authentic as I can be while doing so.

[WilliamMunny]

A little backstory: I have been with my girlfriend for two and a half years. She is the love of my life and I plan on marrying her and having a family and future with her someday. I also started a new job back in February and have made a few friends there, all girls around my age.

One of my coworkers told me that she and her boyfriend of six years just broke up. We talked about it for a little bit and I gave her the best advice I could, along the lines of “you guys started dating when you were still a teenager, so use this time to discover who you are as an adult outside of a relationship so you can be the best version of you”. Fast forward to a couple of days later, and she texts me saying that she drank too much and is feeling really down on herself. We start talking about our work schedules and how we wish our schedules lined up more often. She then asks when I’m free to go out for drinks, and me thinking nothing of it, start making plans with her, as in my mind I would be hanging out with a friend. She then starts sending blushing emojis and heart eye emojis and being pretty flirtatious. At this point it’s pretty late so I go to sleep. The next day we’re talking about work again and once again we’re talking about wanting out schedules to line up. She also asks if I’m still on for plans next Thursday, and I say yes. My girlfriend knows about none of this. Only my two best friends know, who I have on standby in case the night takes a weird turn and I need one of them to come and interject into the situation/get me out of there.

Should I feel guilty about this? I absolutely will NOT cheat on my girlfriend, as I’m head over heels in love with her and cheating goes against everything I stand for as a person and for me would be the equivalent of a character suicide. As far as I’m concerned I’m hanging out with a friend, but I’m holding off on telling my girlfriend because even without my friend from work being a little flirty, my girlfriend is a bit insecure and telling her that I have plans with a friend who is a single girl around our age will set her off. I want to hang out with my friend, because even if she makes a move, I won’t reciprocate, and IF she makes a move, I would absolutely tell my girlfriend about that. Still, this is a situation I’ve never dealt with before, and I have no idea if I’m handling things correctly.

Are you a 'bad' person? Who knows...(and who am I to judge?)

But, since you posed the question, I will offer this: simply reverse the situation with your SO.

Odds are, your SO going to a [insert hobby here] forum and asking a bunch of strangers if she's cheating by meeting some dude at a bar would leave you feeling a bit bummed, and maybe even a bit jealous. Plus, once the spirits start flowing, who knows what will happen.

Look, I've been on every side of this...especially when I was younger. I made mistakes and there were moments where I was someone else's mistake.

Now, I'm a married man with a kid (and another on the way...'40 year old w/ a newborn on the way' thread coming in the near future ), so the rules are VERY different for me (as far as I'm concerned), and I am holding myself to a way different standard bc I AM with the love of my life, and we have way too much going for us.

So, if I was in your shoes (and I actually have been), I'd simply say that I don't hang out with other women without my SO...because I don't.

20 years ago? Well, that was a different story...(and trust me, it never ended well).

I suppose I'm echoing a lot of other posts, but I'd suspect you already knew the answer to your question before you began typing it.

[Lonk]

So for those of you in longer term relationships, how do you feel about sharing everything?  Have you and your SO had conversations about this?

For me, we share almost everything, we have a  thing of talking over dinner about our day, things that came up, people we spoke to and thoughts/ideas we had. We don't share every detail of it, but just enough to give an overview of things. There are times we don't tell each other something because we feel is meaningless. Plenty of time my overview is "the usual stuff, you know" and leave it at that.

I just think for us, we have a genuine interest in knowing how the other person's day was. And regarding to the OP topic, we do hang out with other people outside of each other, we are just always opened about who the other person is, if anyone else will be there. Even if she doesn't know the people I work with, I do talk about them and she has an idea about who they area.

[Chino]

So for those of you in longer term relationships, how do you feel about sharing everything?  Have you and your SO had conversations about this?

There are things I will be taking to the grave with me.

[TAC]

Funny thing is is that being faithful is literally the easiest thing about being married.

[Orbert]

That depends on the persons involved.

After reading the OP, I was thinking it seemed a non-issue to me.  Married people, engaged people, hell, anybody in a committed monogamous relationship, are allowed to have friends, and some of those friends can and will be of the opposite gender.  I personally don't see the problem getting together with a friend and helping them through a rough patch.  Since their coping mechanism involves alcohol, alcohol will be involved.

But as I read response after response saying it was a bad idea, I slowly came around.  The biggest issue (actually still the only issue in my mind) is that the SO is not aware of any of this.  You're not hiding it from her, but you're not being open about it, either.  And while I still maintain that that is your right, it's important to realize that she will not see it that way.

I see the simplest solution as just bringing along the SO.  It's not too late to pivot to that.  "Hey, a friend of mine from work is going through a rough patch, had a bad breakup, and needs to have a few drinks with someone they know and trust.  But this friend is female, so obviously I want you to be there as well.  I want everything to be out in the open, for her and for you.  What do you think?"

[XJDenton]

AM I a bad person?

Wrong question.  Most people who do bad things aren't bad persons, and you likely aren't either.

But proceeding with this course of action without telling your girlfriend would be a bad thing to do.

This.

[wolfking]

I always tell The Lovely Mrs TAC that the next time we're out, I'll show you a fat ass.
So usually when we are out, and we're behind someone with a huge ass, I'll get my wife's attention and glance down at the fat ass, and give my wife the look.

Ha!  Yes, I've done this too!

[TAC]

I see the simplest solution as just bringing along the SO.  It's not too late to pivot to that.  "Hey, a friend of mine from work is going through a rough patch, had a bad breakup, and needs to have a few drinks with someone they know and trust.  But this friend is female, so obviously I want you to be there as well.  I want everything to be out in the open, for her and for you.  What do you think?"

And my luck the co worker would say something to my wife along the lines of, "Ooh I never thought of having another woman with me when I had sex."

[Orbert]

Three's company.  Or so I've heard.

[Zook]

She wants a rebound. If anything, she's the bad person for trying to do that when she knows you're in a relationship.

[MoraWintersoul]

And there are plenty of things I keep from my spouse.  Not earth-shattering things - not relationship breaker things.  But many things that he a) probably doesn't really give a shit about or b) would only add to the jumble of things he's already dealing with and aren't really important to him.

So for those of you in longer term relationships, how do you feel about sharing everything?  Have you and your SO had conversations about this?

Same. I hate oversharing and feeling like I'm oversharing. I will never tell him because his stress release mechanism is to say everything out loud, but I wish I knew less about those everyday things that make my husband feel bad, like stuff that happens at work or in his family or circle of friends. I think about negative things a lot after they happen and dwell on them if I can't make them go away, it's a hum of constant negative noise that just makes life less fun, and I try to keep mine to myself, share what I can with someone who has been through the same thing, and then as a last resort come to him if there's a track record of him responding well, but usually there isn't because we're different people and we go through different things.

To hit on a different note in the thread, I wish I was exposed to less dumb locker room talk from men in general but especially from him (since I don't have IRL male friends now due to pandemic moving). The street is not a meat market, you can just say "wow she looks good" without going in on the details. If you don't know what amount of it is appropriate, it's always less than what you're guessing.

[hunnus2000]

And there are plenty of things I keep from my spouse.  Not earth-shattering things - not relationship breaker things.  But many things that he a) probably doesn't really give a shit about or b) would only add to the jumble of things he's already dealing with and aren't really important to him.

So for those of you in longer term relationships, how do you feel about sharing everything?  Have you and your SO had conversations about this?

Same. I hate oversharing and feeling like I'm oversharing. I will never tell him because his stress release mechanism is to say everything out loud, but I wish I knew less about those everyday things that make my husband feel bad, like stuff that happens at work or in his family or circle of friends. I think about negative things a lot after they happen and dwell on them if I can't make them go away, it's a hum of constant negative noise that just makes life less fun, and I try to keep mine to myself, share what I can with someone who has been through the same thing, and then as a last resort come to him if there's a track record of him responding well, but usually there isn't because we're different people and we go through different things.

To hit on a different note in the thread, I wish I was exposed to less dumb locker room talk from men in general but especially from him (since I don't have IRL male friends now due to pandemic moving). The street is not a meat market, you can just say "wow she looks good" without going in on the details. If you don't know what amount of it is appropriate, it's always less than what you're guessing.

To clarify, we don't share everything and never have but early in our relationship we did discuss what we thought would be dishonest behavior. For instance, a co-worker at the time told my wife that he was having lunch with his Ex. but he couldn't tell his current wife because she would be too jealous. OK - that's his bidness but for us, that would be wrong. There are a number of things we discussed but of course like others, big ticket purchases always goes through a discussion.
And after 24 years of marriage, I still tell her to this day if I am going to lunch with a friend-girl and it's just me and her and it's a good thing I did because she found a strand of long black hair but before things could get ugly, I told here and that I already informed her that I was going to lunch with Kim but I drove. She just smiled and said she had forgotten. The key to relationships is communication.

[TheCountOfNYC]

FWIW, I’ve disclosed just about everything to my girlfriend, especially considering the fact that my ex-girlfriend (who I dated for 8 years and was cheated on by multiple times) is the former singer of my band. I know my girlfriend’s dating history and try very hard to make sure she feels like she can trust me, because having come from a toxic relationship in the past, I know how much that mistrust can destroy a person. At the same time though, it would be unfair for me to not have friends that are girls when my girlfriend has plenty of friends that are guys. I think my girlfriend trusts me enough that me hanging out with another girl won’t upset her, but I also want to try and get more people to come out, and I don’t want to tell my girlfriend the plan until I have all of the details. And as far as the coworker that prompted this thread creation, we’ve spoken since then and she hasn’t been flirty, but I’m still gonna tread lightly while I figure out what the hell is happening, especially since I’m seriously considering going full time at this job.

[TAC]

FWIW, I’ve disclosed just about everything to my girlfriend, especially considering the fact that my ex-girlfriend (who I dated for 8 years and was cheated on by multiple times) is the former singer of my band. I know my girlfriend’s dating history and try very hard to make sure she feels like she can trust me, because having come from a toxic relationship in the past, I know how much that mistrust can destroy a person. At the same time though, it would be unfair for me to not have friends that are girls when my girlfriend has plenty of friends that are guys. I think my girlfriend trusts me enough that me hanging out with another girl won’t upset her, but I also want to try and get more people to come out, and I don’t want to tell my girlfriend the plan until I have all of the details. And as far as the coworker that prompted this thread creation, we’ve spoken since then and she hasn’t been flirty, but I’m still gonna tread lightly while I figure out what the hell is happening, especially since I’m seriously considering going full time at this job.

Another reason that this is a bad idea.

[MoraWintersoul]

And as far as the coworker that prompted this thread creation, we’ve spoken since then and she hasn’t been flirty, but I’m still gonna tread lightly while I figure out what the hell is happening, especially since I’m seriously considering going full time at this job.

Oof. I hope she takes the hint that you weren't being flirty back and doesn't make an awkward situation when you go full time. I feel for you man, and to reiterate, you really haven't done anything wrong except act without thinking things through for like two seconds.

[Herrick]

I think the two issues, from my POV are 1) the secrecy and 2) her expectations.

I wouldn’t have any issues with anyone in a couple hanging out with someone from the attracted sex. If your partner doesn’t trust you or vice versa, that’s an issue to work out, not placate. Always be honest and make sure you’re clear, crystal clear, with the boundaries with new lady.

My two best friends are girls and my girlfriend doesn’t care anymore. She did at the beginning when there were some insecurities but we have trust. If she wanted to hang out with guys, that’s fine. I trust her completely. If she finds someone better than me, that would suck but i wouldn’t want her staying with me simply because I’m keeping her away from something better.

Agreed with all of this but I especially like the second paragraph.

[wolfking]

FWIW, I’ve disclosed just about everything to my girlfriend, especially considering the fact that my ex-girlfriend (who I dated for 8 years and was cheated on by multiple times) is the former singer of my band. I know my girlfriend’s dating history and try very hard to make sure she feels like she can trust me, because having come from a toxic relationship in the past, I know how much that mistrust can destroy a person. At the same time though, it would be unfair for me to not have friends that are girls when my girlfriend has plenty of friends that are guys. I think my girlfriend trusts me enough that me hanging out with another girl won’t upset her, but I also want to try and get more people to come out, and I don’t want to tell my girlfriend the plan until I have all of the details. And as far as the coworker that prompted this thread creation, we’ve spoken since then and she hasn’t been flirty, but I’m still gonna tread lightly while I figure out what the hell is happening, especially since I’m seriously considering going full time at this job.

Another reason that this is a bad idea.

Absolutely.  Your career needs to come first, not this chick who is going to use and abuse you for her own self gratification.  Stay the hell away.

[kirksnosehair]

I think the vernacular is "don't dip your pen in company ink", or, more crudely, "don't shit where you eat."   Sound advice that one.

Came here to post about avoiding the deification of your dining location 


But also remember this: the vast majority of cheating boyfriends get on the road to cheating by way of the "but we were just friends and then it just happened" type of rationale.  The bottom line is as much as some guys hate to admit this, there is really no such thing as "just friends" between males and females of ripe mating age. (say, 18 to around 45 years old or so).  When you're in those prime sexual years there are things going on in your brain that you simply cannot prevent from going on.  They're primal things, linked to the hypothalamus part of your brain - the part of the brain that tells you, "fuck her!  fuck her brains out!" and the minute she reaches over and starts trying to lick your tonsils your relationship with your current G/F will begin to end.

The question you want to ask yourself is this:  How would I feel about my G/F going "out for drinks" with another guy?  Or better yet, how would you feel about your G/F going out with another guy, but also keeping that information from you?

[Adami]

Again,  my two (three before one passed) best friends are girls. No tension or anything.

[kirksnosehair]

Again,  my two (three before one passed) best friends are girls. No tension or anything.

uh, I don't think anyone here is saying that platonic relationships between men and women are impossible, but I admit I didn't read every post here.

[Stadler]

Again,  my two (three before one passed) best friends are girls. No tension or anything.

uh, I don't think anyone here is saying that platonic relationships between men and women are impossible, but I admit I didn't read every post here.

I'm leaning with KNH here.  I'm also not saying they are impossible, but they take work, maturity and understanding.  Just because I THINK about jumping someone's bones doesn't mean I will or I will even try, I'm an adult who is (relatively) in control of myself, but I also know that "man plans and God laughs".  I also know that I'm not the kind of guy that makes my partner work for it; I worry that I'm treating my partner with respect and dignity, and to me that means not pushing their buttons.   I remember advice an old girlfriend gave to her friend:  "Yeah, you're right.  So you won the battle. Did you win the war?"  And I also know that it's smart to not even put myself in that position to begin with; there are many things that I've sort of decided aren't worth even trying. I can't die of a cocaine OD if I never take it to begin with.

The only REAL advice here is "do what you feel is right", but to me, I would weigh "is it worth the friendship, is it worth the minute spike to my ego that this woman wants me, in exchange for the degradation of trust that will inevitably happen if she finds out?"   TRUST ME, if I learned anything from my two marriages, it's that trust is like a sandcastle or a house of cards: it takes a LONG time to build, it takes one moment to destroy. 

[Adami]

Again,  my two (three before one passed) best friends are girls. No tension or anything.

uh, I don't think anyone here is saying that platonic relationships between men and women are impossible, but I admit I didn't read every post here.

Didn’t you? You said it’s not possible. I’m 36. So I’m in that age range. Maybe I misread?

[jingle.boy]

TRUST ME, if I learned anything from my two marriages, it's that trust is like a sandcastle or a house of cards: it takes a LONG time to build, it takes one moment to destroy.

The best way I ever heard trust explained is this ... Trust is earned in pennies, and spent in dollars.

[Skeever]

The bottom line is as much as some guys hate to admit this, there is really no such thing as "just friends" between males and females of ripe mating age. (say, 18 to around 45 years old or so).  When you're in those prime sexual years there are things going on in your brain that you simply cannot prevent from going on. 

I think you might be overstating it a bit? The key word is attraction, not sex. Personally speaking, I know almost immediately if I'm attracted to someone in that way. Getting to know them better over time or working closely with them hardly changes that.

[Chino]

TRUST ME, if I learned anything from my two marriages, it's that trust is like a sandcastle or a house of cards: it takes a LONG time to build, it takes one moment to destroy.

Man, that's a good one, and even if you decide to work together and rebuild the sandcastle or house of cards, it'll never be what it was. It might look similar, but it's still not the same.

[Stadler]

The bottom line is as much as some guys hate to admit this, there is really no such thing as "just friends" between males and females of ripe mating age. (say, 18 to around 45 years old or so).  When you're in those prime sexual years there are things going on in your brain that you simply cannot prevent from going on. 

I think you might be overstating it a bit? The key word is attraction, not sex. Personally speaking, I know almost immediately if I'm attracted to someone in that way. Getting to know them better over time or working closely with them hardly changes that.

I don't know if that's necessarily true; I definitely have things I'm attracted to physically, but there are things that are intangible.  I've certainly had experiences where there was something just undeniably attractive about a woman that perhaps wasn't reflected in whatever I could see in the moment.   I don't deny the "immediacy" in the sense that it's not conscious thought, it's visceral, but that visceral attraction can grow over time.

[WilliamMunny]

The bottom line is as much as some guys hate to admit this, there is really no such thing as "just friends" between males and females of ripe mating age. (say, 18 to around 45 years old or so).  When you're in those prime sexual years there are things going on in your brain that you simply cannot prevent from going on. 

I think you might be overstating it a bit? The key word is attraction, not sex. Personally speaking, I know almost immediately if I'm attracted to someone in that way. Getting to know them better over time or working closely with them hardly changes that.

I don't know if that's necessarily true; I definitely have things I'm attracted to physically, but there are things that are intangible.  I've certainly had experiences where there was something just undeniably attractive about a woman that perhaps wasn't reflected in whatever I could see in the moment.   I don't deny the "immediacy" in the sense that it's not conscious thought, it's visceral, but that visceral attraction can grow over time.

This. And, I find that the 'visceral' attraction (at least for me) has grown more important as I've gotten older.

Redhead, pale, with tattoos might equal 'hot,' but watching a slightly-overweight burnette putting on an awesome display of 'mothering' is probably gonna leave a more lasting impression with me at this point in my life. I'm sure everyone is different here, but even my definition of attraction has evolved over time.

[bosk1]

So for those of you in longer term relationships, how do you feel about sharing everything?  Have you and your SO had conversations about this?

To me, the distinction, as relevant to this thread, is whether we can share everything.  I fully agree with you that not everything needs to be shared.  Your examples are spot on about things that don't need to be shared.  But if there was every anything I felt like I couldn't tell her, that would be a red flag.

Another example that comes to mind is where one of the kids needs to talk about something he or she is struggling with that they feel is appropriate just for dad (or just for mom).  We have had those situations come up.  And I tell them "I don't hide anything from mom.  But we have both agreed that there are times when you need to just talk to one or the other, and it isn't really something that needs to be shared.  So unless I think your health or safety are in danger and that I simply can't deal with it on my own, yes, we can keep this just between you and I."  My wife and I talked about that, and we agree that it is more important for the kids to trust and open up to us.  That seems to work. 

[hefdaddy42]

So for those of you in longer term relationships, how do you feel about sharing everything?  Have you and your SO had conversations about this?

To me, the distinction, as relevant to this thread, is whether we can share everything.  I fully agree with you that not everything needs to be shared.  Your examples are spot on about things that don't need to be shared.  But if there was every anything I felt like I couldn't tell her, that would be a red flag.

Another example that comes to mind is where one of the kids needs to talk about something he or she is struggling with that they feel is appropriate just for dad (or just for mom).  We have had those situations come up.  And I tell them "I don't hide anything from mom.  But we have both agreed that there are times when you need to just talk to one or the other, and it isn't really something that needs to be shared.  So unless I think your health or safety are in danger and that I simply can't deal with it on my own, yes, we can keep this just between you and I."  My wife and I talked about that, and we agree that it is more important for the kids to trust and open up to us.  That seems to work.

That's good stuff there, boss.

[Skeever]

The bottom line is as much as some guys hate to admit this, there is really no such thing as "just friends" between males and females of ripe mating age. (say, 18 to around 45 years old or so).  When you're in those prime sexual years there are things going on in your brain that you simply cannot prevent from going on. 

I think you might be overstating it a bit? The key word is attraction, not sex. Personally speaking, I know almost immediately if I'm attracted to someone in that way. Getting to know them better over time or working closely with them hardly changes that.

I don't know if that's necessarily true; I definitely have things I'm attracted to physically, but there are things that are intangible.  I've certainly had experiences where there was something just undeniably attractive about a woman that perhaps wasn't reflected in whatever I could see in the moment.   I don't deny the "immediacy" in the sense that it's not conscious thought, it's visceral, but that visceral attraction can grow over time.

Maybe, but it's not happened to me yet, despite being in a lot of roles over the years where I worked with females closely and had relatively close relationships, and I'm not getting thirstier as I get older. If the attraction was there at all, it was always there from the beginning.

[Stadler]

It all depends on what you are into. I'm very sensitive to looks; I'm not saying that every girl I date has to be Margot Robbie, but I have to be attracted to her physically.   Just like there are things that erode an attraction over time - if Margot Robbie smelled like a dumpster, or continually played the victim on everything, that would diminish her attractiveness to me - there are things that increase attraction over time.  I'm a big smile guy, so a girl that laughs a lot or has a sexy smile will be attractive to me even if at first glance she's not model hot.