Author Topic: Loki (on Disney+) Official Thread - Are You Sure You're A Loki? (Ep 3 Now Out!)  (Read 794 times)

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Online ariich

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Re: Loki (on Disney+) Official Thread - Burdened With Glorious Purpose
« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2021, 01:37:53 PM »
I likened Loki's change to Gamora's in Endgame. Gamora had about 3-4 years to develop and become who she was by Infinity War, but her 2014 version in Endgame seemed to flip on a dime once Nebula told her about their shared past/Gamora's future. Granted, Gamora probably had those feelings already but they weren't given the chance to surface until she met the other Guardians, but I guess it also shows how much she really cared for Nebula, even in 2014, that listening to her future sister spurred her into helping her/betraying Thanos.

Loki seeing his future definitely set him along the path he did take in the prime timeline, especially actually seeing his mom die, which I don't believe he literally saw in The Dark World, so I think seeing it (rather than hearing about it from Thor) definitely hit him harder emotionally. And it can't be said enough that Tom's acting in those few minutes is just absolutely brilliant. His tears from Frigga and Odin, to smiling at Thor's expression of brotherly love, to the fear and anger at seeing Thanos snap his neck, Tom conveyed so much in his reactions, you could really feel the journey Loki went on. It's like those meme pics of Shia LaBeouf in the theater watching his movies and going through emotions, but Tom did it better.
I agree with this, but also I think your description of 2014 Gamora all applies to 2012 Loki (assuming of course that he's telling the truth). When he eventually gives in, he reveals that he doesn't actually like killing and hurting people, but does it to feel powerful because he knows he's weak. In the sacred timeline, his redemption arc takes time because he's still after power and status - it's a slower change as he gradually comes round. But here, it's a much quicker process - firstly when discovering how power is meaningless at the TVA when he sees all those infinity stones, and then when he watches what happens to him and what we does in the sacred timeline. It seems to me that those experiences cause him to give up on his drive for power and pave the way for a quicker change of heart.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Loki (on Disney+) Official Thread - Burdened With Glorious Purpose
« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2021, 01:40:04 PM »
So far, this is great.  I don't like it a much as WandaVision, but it's still early (and WandaVision set an INCREDIBLY high bar). 

I likened Loki's change to Gamora's in Endgame. Gamora had about 3-4 years to develop and become who she was by Infinity War, but her 2014 version in Endgame seemed to flip on a dime once Nebula told her about their shared past/Gamora's future. Granted, Gamora probably had those feelings already but they weren't given the chance to surface until she met the other Guardians, but I guess it also shows how much she really cared for Nebula, even in 2014, that listening to her future sister spurred her into helping her/betraying Thanos.

I don't think Gamorra "flipped on a dime" at all.  Yes, becoming part of the guardians changed her.  But it became pretty clear that she had been hiding the secret of the soul stone and resented Thanos for a LONG time before meeting the guardians.  She just had to conceal how she felt.  She also clearly had feelings for her sister for a long time as well.  So I never felt like 2014 Gamorra's "flip" was abrupt.  It was pretty in-character, actually, for all they had set up about her.

Loki seeing his future definitely set him along the path he did take in the prime timeline, especially actually seeing his mom die, which I don't believe he literally saw in The Dark World, so I think seeing it (rather than hearing about it from Thor) definitely hit him harder emotionally...

Yeah, Loki did soften a bit too quickly to sell completely convincingly.  But I don't think it's that big a deal.  I think they planted seeds that the Loki we know has a part of him that kinda wants to do good and get approval from others, and I think they way he explained that in this first episode kind of rang true, and we can look at it as him seeing those clips awakened that in him, just in a different way perhaps than him actually living it out in the MCU timeline we are familiar with.  But also, on the flip side, I also don't think he was being completely sincere in his softening, and will show himself to be true to his nature by attempting to double cross Mobius at several opportunities.
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: Loki (on Disney+) Official Thread - Burdened With Glorious Purpose
« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2021, 01:42:24 PM »
I thought that there were only six Infinity Stones.  Exactly six.  I didn't pause and count them, but it sure looked like more than six in Casey's desk drawer, plus Casey said that they had a lot of them and some guys use them for paperweights.  So there's even more, somewhere.

So... there are only six in our universe, but this show (or at least the TVA) exists outside of (or beyond) our universe?  Something like that?

Here's how I interpret the multiples of Infinity Stones - They're all from pruned branch timelines, like the Tesseract that Loki stole in Endgame. The branched timelines were clipped and reset with their time grenade charges.

It kinda makes sense that there would be more Infinity Stones at the TVA considering the power they hold, tons of nefarious beings would try to take them and cause chaos, which could incite branch timelines which would need to be pruned and reset. So as we see in the drawer, there are about six (red) Reality Stones, and if the Dark Elves were willing to destroy Asgard to get them, you can imagine how far other beings would go to get them to try and use them to recreate the universe.

There are about four (purple) Power Stones, and being the most physically destructive stone, a lot of war mongering villains would be after them, which is probably why in the prime MCU timeline, the Nova Corps were best trusted to keep it safe (though that did not stop Thanos, but then again, that was *supposed* to happen). There are about six (green) Time Stones, and of course, that would need to be watched carefully because of how easily it could alter the timeline and create multiverses easily (as Mordo warned in the Doctor Strange film).

There's one (blue) Space Stone, which is interesting that it seems like there aren't more of them, but it's probably one of the weaker stones in terms of it's power to alter the timelines since it just displaces people in the three dimensional space within the universe, but there might be more as paperweights around the TVA offices. And there are two (yellow) Mind Stones, which I've seen a lot of folks confuse for the Soul Stone, but the color brightness is a bit dark in the drawer, and the stone itself is seen to be quite larger than the others, which is how the Mind Stone looked in Infinity War (and Endgame) when it was pulled out of Vision's head. Granted, the stones could morph their shape to fit into the gauntlets, but it was always bigger than the other five stones, so I'm 99% certain those two bigger Infinity Stones are Mind Stones.

It also makes sense that there are no Soul Stones considering how difficult they are to obtain, though there are some stones in the credits of the show, and I hadn't seen if there were any orange Soul Stones in there yet. But yeah, hopefully that makes sense. The extra stones are just from branch timelines, so they were taken out of the Sacred Timeline, but because they're in a place outside of their home universe, they're powerless (an idea I recall being mentioned during the 90s Marvel VS DC Comics, where Darkseid came upon the Infinity Gauntlet (with all the Infinity Gems) and he tried using it, but it didn't work in the DC Universe because they weren't in their home universe - very clever writing.

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Offline The Letter M

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Re: Loki (on Disney+) Official Thread - Burdened With Glorious Purpose
« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2021, 01:53:56 PM »
So far, this is great.  I don't like it a much as WandaVision, but it's still early (and WandaVision set an INCREDIBLY high bar). 

I likened Loki's change to Gamora's in Endgame. Gamora had about 3-4 years to develop and become who she was by Infinity War, but her 2014 version in Endgame seemed to flip on a dime once Nebula told her about their shared past/Gamora's future. Granted, Gamora probably had those feelings already but they weren't given the chance to surface until she met the other Guardians, but I guess it also shows how much she really cared for Nebula, even in 2014, that listening to her future sister spurred her into helping her/betraying Thanos.

I don't think Gamorra "flipped on a dime" at all.  Yes, becoming part of the guardians changed her.  But it became pretty clear that she had been hiding the secret of the soul stone and resented Thanos for a LONG time before meeting the guardians.  She just had to conceal how she felt.  She also clearly had feelings for her sister for a long time as well.  So I never felt like 2014 Gamorra's "flip" was abrupt.  It was pretty in-character, actually, for all they had set up about her.

That's fair. You're right, but it's been a while since I've seen GOTG 1 and 2, or Endgame, but you're probably right about her character. Yeah, she definitely had those feelings all along, but I think her change of heart happening because of her sister being quicker than it was being with the Guardians definitely speaks to her feelings and relationship with Nebula, which I think is a wonderful notion, and a great piece of character writing. Then again, she did walk away at the end of the battle in Endgame and kind of disappeared, not even telling Nebula anything, though to be fair, she was 9 years into the future with really no one else to be around. I would've thought she and Nebula would have run off together so I was surprise to see Nebula with the Guardians again at the end. Hopefully Thor: Love And Thunder kind of bring up their search for Gamora and touch on that a bit before we see them again in GOTG 3.

Loki seeing his future definitely set him along the path he did take in the prime timeline, especially actually seeing his mom die, which I don't believe he literally saw in The Dark World, so I think seeing it (rather than hearing about it from Thor) definitely hit him harder emotionally...

Yeah, Loki did soften a bit too quickly to sell completely convincingly.  But I don't think it's that big a deal.  I think they planted seeds that the Loki we know has a part of him that kinda wants to do good and get approval from others, and I think they way he explained that in this first episode kind of rang true, and we can look at it as him seeing those clips awakened that in him, just in a different way perhaps than him actually living it out in the MCU timeline we are familiar with.  But also, on the flip side, I also don't think he was being completely sincere in his softening, and will show himself to be true to his nature by attempting to double cross Mobius at several opportunities.

Well, time does move differently in the TVA, so maybe Loki saw more of his life than we got to see him watch! :lol But for THIS Loki, he just lost a battle against the Avengers after being given an Infinity Stone and stealing a second, and then seeing his boss' boss (Thanos) snap his neck in a huge betrayal, so coupling that with the realization that the Stones weren't the most powerful things in the universe, and seeing his parents die (especially Odin after acknowledging him as a son), he got the whole range of emotions that the Prime Loki had over the course of 6 years in just under 6 minutes.

But you're probably right, he's still going to cause mischief, it's in his nature after all. There's that shot in the trailers of him parading about in Pompeii just before the volcano erupts as he seems to be evading Mobius, so who knows what's gonna happen as the series goes on. But I do think he was being genuinely vulnerable to Mobius in that moment, especially after he says that he tried using the Tesseract many times to escape the TVA. I think he's also just curious about why there's a more dangerous version of him causing trouble for the TVA, since Mobius likened 2012 Loki to being a pussy cat in terms of being a "dangerous variant".

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Offline bosk1

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Re: Loki (on Disney+) Official Thread - Burdened With Glorious Purpose
« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2021, 01:55:15 PM »
Yeah, I couldn't help but wonder whether the relative numbers and types of stones had any significance like you are suggesting, Marc.  I tend to think it is somewhat random (as in, "dump a handful into the drawer to make the point"), and that beyond that, there wasn't really any intended commentary on the specific stones.  But who knows?
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: Loki (on Disney+) Official Thread - Burdened With Glorious Purpose
« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2021, 02:02:22 PM »
Yeah, I couldn't help but wonder whether the relative numbers and types of stones had any significance like you are suggesting, Marc.  I tend to think it is somewhat random (as in, "dump a handful into the drawer to make the point"), and that beyond that, there wasn't really any intended commentary on the specific stones.  But who knows?

I could honestly see it going either way. Marvel Studios is either really careful with the placement of its sets and pieces, or they could be super careless and just see how it goes, but given that they were taking a jab at the MCU's major macguffins, I think someone was being deliberate in their numbers and placement. But like you said, who knows! Only the writers and producers, really. In the end, the whole reason for them being there was to make Loki realize that his quest for power was meaningless in a place like the TVA, where that power is rendered powerless to the point of being pieces of office supplies.

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Re: Loki (on Disney+) Official Thread - Burdened With Glorious Purpose
« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2021, 03:30:14 PM »
I keep forgetting that the universe has more dimensions and more realities than I think.  The whole idea that those stones could've come from alternate timelines hadn't even occurred to me.  Even though we saw about a dozen examples of alternate timelines and stuff.

Note to self: Remember to consider all possible realities when making any decision or trying to analyze science fiction.  Or even reality.  Right.

Offline The Letter M

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Re: Loki (on Disney+) Official Thread - So You're A Variant
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2021, 08:30:45 AM »
Caught episode 2 this morning before heading out. What a good episode, probably even better than episode one!

The twist/reveal at the end was certainly played out unexpectedly, but sadly I had known about the "big reveal" beforehand (months ago) because of behind the scenes leaks. Not that I care too much because it didn't reveal too much, and it was much cooler seeing it unravel on screen anyway.

The ending of this episode left me with more questions than I started with, and very few answers. It was nice to see most of the supporting cast appear again throughout the episode, as I was worried we might not see the likes of Casey ever again! I'm really glad these are hour length episodes, but I wouldn't mind if the last couple are a little bit longer!

I'll share more spoilery thoughts later today once more people have seen it, but so far, this series is slowly shaping up to be my favorite of the 3 Disney+ Marvel Studios shows so far!

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Re: Loki (on Disney+) Official Thread - So You're A Variant
« Reply #43 on: June 16, 2021, 08:43:03 AM »
Outstanding stuff... I'm all in on this one.

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Re: Loki (on Disney+) Official Thread - So You're A Variant
« Reply #44 on: June 16, 2021, 01:27:28 PM »
Outstanding stuff... I'm all in on this one.
Enjoying this quite a bit as well. Better than Wandavison or Falcon and Winter Soldier so far. Hopefully it holds up and doesn't turn into the typical generic Marvel CGI action at the end. I like that Loki so far feels like it deserves to be a tv show. Falcon and Winter Soldier felt like an overlong movie they broke into 6 parts.

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Re: Loki (on Disney+) Official Thread - So You're A Variant
« Reply #45 on: June 16, 2021, 02:45:33 PM »
I love the internal conflict they're developing in Loki, I really hope they draw it out to fruition.

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Re: Loki (on Disney+) Official Thread - So You're A Variant
« Reply #46 on: June 17, 2021, 05:47:58 AM »
Enjoyed the 2nd episode as well. I'm more intrigued by the Time Keepers and wonder if they'll make an appearance at all in the course of the season. I really really love the vibe of the show so far, that setting of the TVA is a joy to watch.
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Re: Loki (on Disney+) Official Thread - So You're A Variant
« Reply #47 on: June 17, 2021, 07:58:43 AM »
I thought the episode was really good.  Looking forward to seeing the ramifications of the ending.
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Re: Loki (on Disney+) Official Thread - So You're A Variant
« Reply #48 on: June 17, 2021, 09:10:48 AM »
I thought the episode was really good.  Looking forward to seeing the ramifications of the ending.

Origins of the multiverse of madness methinks.
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Re: Loki (on Disney+) Official Thread - So You're A Variant
« Reply #49 on: June 18, 2021, 08:18:21 PM »
So can we start talking spoilers yet?   That's the reason we keep this thread separate from the MCU thread, right?


So...my son figures that the woman was just a female Loki....after all, they had been chasing down multiple Loki's and we even had pictures of many of them (Monster Loki was my favorite) so why not a female one?   But then I pointed out that she refused to be called Loki, seemed to really dislike the name, and then exited by saying "it's not about you".    Could this be a completely different character who has *fooled* the TVA into *thinking* they were chasing Loki?
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Re: Loki (on Disney+) Official Thread - So You're A Variant
« Reply #50 on: June 18, 2021, 09:36:38 PM »
That's what I think.  Other than the headpiece she was wearing, there are no outward physical indications.  She and the small handful of actors that each spend about 30 seconds as "the variant" did a reasonable job of imitating his speech patterns, which was entertaining, but something tells me that she's not Lady Loki.

Offline Vmadera00

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Re: Loki (on Disney+) Official Thread - So You're A Variant
« Reply #51 on: June 18, 2021, 09:55:08 PM »
Didn't he refer to her by a name when she revealed herself? I'm Assuming he knows who she is, but maybe I'm just misunderstanding.

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Re: Loki (on Disney+) Official Thread - So You're A Variant
« Reply #52 on: June 18, 2021, 10:05:44 PM »
Didn't he refer to her by a name when she revealed herself? I'm Assuming he knows who she is, but maybe I'm just misunderstanding.

I did not hear that. You’re gonna make me have to watch it again. LOL did anyone else hear him address her by a name?
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: Loki (on Disney+) Official Thread - So You're A Variant
« Reply #53 on: June 18, 2021, 11:52:55 PM »
Foreign language credits listed her as "Sylvie", and in one of the Crime Reports that Loki looks through, one incident in 1908 in Central California listed "Sylvie Laufeydottir" as the culprit. However, comics fans have pointed out that a 2nd version of Enchantress (not the original Amora one) was created by Loki by making a human named Sylvie Lushton believe she was an Asgardian, and Loki gave her powers and abilities like his and the Enchantress.

Marvel could be combining Lady Loki and the Enchantress into a new version of one of those characters. This wouldn't be the first time they've mashed up characters (see Iron Man 2's Whiplash, a combination of Whiplash and Crimson Dynamo, or GOTG2's Ego, who was a Mashup of Ego the living planet and a Celestial).

I'm trying not to make too many definitive theories quite yet because I'm sure her backstory will be revealed in episode three. I also don't think she is the MAIN antagonistic force of this season, and she might be trying to save the timeline FROM the Time Keepers...but we shall see!

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Re: Loki (on Disney+) Official Thread - So You're A Variant
« Reply #54 on: June 19, 2021, 01:10:23 AM »
I'm trying not to make too many definitive theories quite yet because I'm sure her backstory will be revealed in episode three. I also don't think she is the MAIN antagonistic force of this season, and she might be trying to save the timeline FROM the Time Keepers...but we shall see!
Good point - particularly as Loki is hardly a typical protagonist (especially 2012 Loki), they could go in various different directions. Adds another level of intrigue and entertainment to it!


So can we start talking spoilers yet?   That's the reason we keep this thread separate from the MCU thread, right?
Yes absolutely, I don't know why people keep holding off - each show having its own thread is precisely so that people can have spoiler-filled discussions as soon as an episode airs.

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Re: Loki (on Disney+) Official Thread - So You're A Variant
« Reply #55 on: June 19, 2021, 04:49:14 AM »
and she might be trying to save the timeline FROM the Time Keepers...but we shall see!


I'm down with this theory... and that "The Timekeepers" is just Kang.
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Re: Loki (on Disney+) Official Thread - So You're A Variant
« Reply #56 on: June 19, 2021, 09:26:37 AM »
and she might be trying to save the timeline FROM the Time Keepers...but we shall see!


I'm down with this theory... and that "The Timekeepers" is just Kang.

I have more hope for Kang appearing in Loki than I did for Mephisto appearing in WandaVision, mostly because Kang has already been cast in the MCU (for Ant-Man & The Wasp: Quantumania, which just started filming this week). It would be wild if Loki was stealthily setting up BOTH Doctor Strange In The Multiverse Of Madness *AND* Quantumania, but given the nature of the TVA and the concepts behind those film sequels, it makes sense if Loki has some connection to them. Endgame was more than just a time travel story, it was the precedent for Phase 4 and the insanity that will come because of meddling with time, and I am HERE for it. I cannot wait for Kang, so if he shows up in Loki, I'll flip.

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Re: Loki (on Disney+) Official Thread - So You're A Variant
« Reply #57 on: June 23, 2021, 06:37:59 AM »
3rd episode is a bit bland to be honest.  Lots and lots of chatter doubling as filling in the audience in on the background of the characters, but not much else going on.  Hopefully this information dump will payoff in the remaining episodes.

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Re: Loki (on Disney+) Official Thread - So You're A Variant
« Reply #58 on: June 23, 2021, 06:50:45 AM »
I'm really feeling this one more than Wanda and waaay more that Falcon. I'm interested to see if this is a way to bring some infinity war losses back to life.

Offline lordxizor

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Re: Loki (on Disney+) Official Thread - So You're A Variant
« Reply #59 on: June 23, 2021, 07:03:30 AM »
3rd episode is a bit bland to be honest.  Lots and lots of chatter doubling as filling in the audience in on the background of the characters, but not much else going on.  Hopefully this information dump will payoff in the remaining episodes.
I was going to say basically this same thing. Not the best episode.

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Just caught the episode, and yeah, it is a bit of a slower one, but it's also a bit shorter too. By the end, I was surprised how much shorter it was when it felt like it went by quite quickly.

I loved the quibbling between them and revealing more of Sylvie's personality and intentions. Also enjoyed seeing Loki cut loose a bit more, especially his hedonistic Asgardian lifestyle, including asking for "another!"

Definitely the weakest of the first 3 episodes so far but still enjoyable for me! The sets and locations were quite intriguing as well, and that final unbroken camera shot through the city was really well done!

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They did paint themselves into a corner at the end... I'm thinking Mobius will appear to save them, not really sure how else they can escape with only a few hours till the moon crushes them.

And I agree, it was a mild episode.

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That was a hell of a cliffhanger.

I don't agree that the episode was any weaker than the previous ones, but then I tend of think of seasons as a single entity, with each episode a part of it. This was different in a lot of ways, and seems to have added quite a lot to the characters and overall story arc which is exactly what TV shows are good for.

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I'm with Rich.  This 'act' served a few purposes, and was entertaining enough.  There's a few possible outcomes that get them off the rock - be it Mobius and the TVA finding them in *this* apocalypse, or allies of Sylvie showing up to save the day.
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Happy is the dog that stops and licks his balls.

Offline lonestar

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Don't get me wrong, it was entertaining for sure.. Maybe I felt Loki and Mobius just had better chemistry thelan he and Silvie.

Online MinistroRaven

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I don't think Mobius or the TVA will come to the rescue, after all this is the worst apocalyptic of all according to Silvie if thatīs true then they are hidden as explained in ep02, no?

Offline lordxizor

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Don't get me wrong, it was entertaining for sure.. Maybe I felt Loki and Mobius just had better chemistry thelan he and Silvie.
I think this is it for me. I missed the Loki/Mobius banter in this episode.

Offline soupytwist

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Low key episode...

/Coat.


Offline lonestar

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I don't think Mobius or the TVA will come to the rescue, after all this is the worst apocalyptic of all according to Silvie if thatīs true then they are hidden as explained in ep02, no?

Shit, you're totally right.

Offline Orbert

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I thought it was great.  It was a little on the short side, true, but it still flew by and I was totally caught by surprise when it was over.  Except for that brief opening scene explaining how Sylvie charmed agent Hunter C-20, the entire thing was them on the move.  I had no problem getting to know Sylvie (and Loki) a bit better through their constant banter, and they were almost constantly moving.  Probably could've done without Loki getting drunk on the train and fucking things up, but even that scene gave us some insight in his character.  It didn't even occur to me until later that we hadn't checked in with Mobius or anyone else from the TVA the whole episode.